There are a ton of loaded terms tossed around for male behavior, and the impact it has on attraction. "Nice Guys", "Bad Boys", and, of course, "Alpha" and "Beta". What do these labels (and the underlying behaviors) really mean in the context of attracting the kinds of mates we want, and building a fulfilling life?
There are a ton of loaded terms tossed around for male behavior, and the impact it has on attraction. "Nice Guys", "Bad Boys", and, of course, "Alpha" and "Beta". What do these labels (and the underlying behaviors) really mean in the context of attracting the kinds of mates we want, and building a fulfilling life?
Dan:
Hey, good morning Charles, how are you?
Charles:
Splitted Dan, thanks, how are you?
Dan:
Well, thank you. Yeah,
Charles:
It
Dan:
I had
Charles:
has,
Dan:
a good day yesterday. I
Charles:
yes, tell me about it.
Dan:
yeah, I joined Kurt on our buddy Kurt on one of his 12 run groups he does every week. Down in that in Thornton
Charles:
He
Dan:
Park.
Charles:
reduced out to 12.
Dan:
He's a little bit of a lazy son of a bitch. Yeah, yeah.
Charles:
Cutting back a little.
Dan:
Yeah. And it's funny because when I was so I puts it together and she runs it. She's a great host. She had handing out green mustaches for St. Patrick's Day yesterday and everybody was into it. She leads the group in stretching exercises and yeah, it was really nice to be able to run outside and have a couple of extra obstacles like duck's, geese, children and cars and intersections but it was very mentally stimulating so it was a lot running on the treadmill or running out on the path. And I wanted to give a shout out to my new friend, Neil, who, you know, who basically recognized us from the podcast and actually asked about you. And when you were going to come join, join the group, I know he knows that you're a big hiker and walker. And so you wanted you to come down and join the group. So, Neil, thanks. I was very flattered that you that you listened to the show and just
Charles:
That's
Dan:
wanted
Charles:
awesome.
Dan:
to say thanks. It was you and yeah, I had some good conversation with him and I really enjoyed it. So I'm going to be a regular, I think, on Thursdays now.
Charles:
Nice. I stopped by that group once a while ago, probably a year plus. And I didn't run. I just showed up afterward. I think I was on my way back from, from work or something, maybe in St. Pete. And everybody seemed really friendly and really nice. As I was telling you before we got started, I lost the lottery for a Mount Whitney hiking permit for the third year in a row. And now I am, I am choosing the dates that are the most in demand, which are the ones around the full moon in July, August and September. So, you know, unless my number gets pulled very early, the dates that I've selected are not going to be available. So it's kind of expected that I'm going to have a hard time getting it. But you know, so yeah, I didn't get it. So I won't be, I won't be starting the run running anytime soon. I'll keep up with my walking. But I am looking at some other options to get in a strenuous hike either something in the Denver area before or after you and I go out to a podcast movement in August, or option of still doing the Mount Whitney hike, but instead of having like my own individual permit, I think there might be some outfitters that do like guided hikes where a guide takes a group of people on the hike, which
Dan:
great.
Charles:
I don't love that idea. That's how I did half dome, but I don't generally go at the pace of the other. I am a very slow hiker and I like to take a lot of breaks because, you know, finishing a hike is easy. You just don't stop, but you I like to pause quite a bit and rest and get my energy and look around and take pictures and chase an animal or something to go get a good picture or movie of it. And so going on a group of 20 other people, that doesn't really make it easy to do stuff like that. But I'm open to it because I am feeling the itch to get out there and do a hike that is not easy. And we'll see what I come up with for that plan, but I'm sure I'll have to do some kind to 5k couch to 10k challenges on my way better app.
Dan:
Yeah, I mean, I run it like barely five miles an hour and it's really more like a walk where I'm bouncing up and down really. That's
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
it, you know, I'm not moving fast at all. And that works for me, but you know, being out there, I realized you end up in order to avoid some things and move around people and stuff. It's good because you're doing a lot of like little faster sprints here and there to kind of move around people and get through
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
intersections and things like that. And definitely stimulates your brain in a way that you don't get from, you know, just walking out on a trail, you know, by yourself and stuff like that. So I think regardless of whatever hike you're planning on doing, I think it might be a nice way to mix things up for you to come out once a week. So that's
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
the end of my sales pitch for that.
Charles:
Yeah, you and Kurt are fine salesmen. So yeah, if I don't wanna do, my return to jogging is not going to be in a social setting because I'll be too, although, you know, I have noticed jogging for me gets way easier the less that I weigh. And the first time, I mean, when I was probably, I wanna say 10 pounds heavier than I am right now,
Dan:
Mm-hmm.
Charles:
And I was able to jog for 10 minutes without stopping to walk. And it shocked the heck out of me. I couldn't believe I was able to go for 10 minutes without stopping. It blew my mind.
Dan:
I mean, that's about a mile already
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
right there,
Charles:
yeah,
Dan:
you know.
Charles:
yeah, it was right about a mile. And yeah, and that was just the first day I decided
Dan:
you
Charles:
to
Dan:
know,
Charles:
do a sustained run.
Dan:
you know, and, you know, we were just kind of talking about, you know, how well you're doing with the weight loss and how kind of shocking it it's been in terms of that you're still making progress at this rate. And, you know, and, you know, you're also talking a little bit about, you know, habits becoming a little, little bit automatic for you and stuff. And
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
I just want to offer to you is that the same thing happens with running like the way better, six week program where they have you do 5k,
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
you know, so it's, you know, for the first gets in the next day, it's, it's like, or it's one mile, 0.5 miles, and then 1.5 miles, and then like two miles. But you buy this, like the end of the second or third week, you're like, I can't believe this is I you actually notice yourself getting better at it. Like, it's amazing
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
how you're really running four times a week. And it's
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
not and it's, you know, and you could do it like 18 minute mile pace or 15
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
minute mile pace, which is ridiculous. And so it's amazing to watch your Like it's not nearly as difficult as I thought as my brain was It was allowing me or to think and
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
it's you will be surprised even at our age how quickly Your
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
body starts to go. Hey, this is you know, this is this is easy
Charles:
Yes, this is
Dan:
So
Charles:
definitely
Dan:
just
Charles:
survivable.
Dan:
something
Charles:
And
Dan:
to
Charles:
I
Dan:
think
Charles:
mean,
Dan:
about yeah
Charles:
and even 15 minute mile is only four miles an hour, which, you know, that
Dan:
You
Charles:
that's
Dan:
can walk
Charles:
a power,
Dan:
that.
Charles:
that's
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
a power walk.
Dan:
right.
Charles:
Yeah. I mean, that's,
Dan:
Right.
Charles:
I
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
mean, that's, that's more my, my normal pace for when I'm walking just to get steps, like if I'm going around a mall or Disney or whatever is 20 minute miles, that's because I'm looking at stuff and I'm, I'm maybe, you know, stopping at a time I shoe or look at a weird bug or something like that. I can still get 20, 20 minute miles done. is not a ridiculous demand.
Dan:
It definitely facilitates you just running a little bit and then when you get tired, walk for a little bit and then you pick up
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
the run again a little bit after a minute or whatever and just still qualify and stuff. Yeah, something like that.
Charles:
Sorry, yeah, and I definitely will. And then we're kind of talking about things that are going good for us. The other thing is I finally got some real internet here at my camper and I'm real excited about that. I'm looking at our Riverside, our app that we use to record these. And you and I are both stuck at 99% uploaded where when I was using the hotspot on my phone, I would hover around 10% uploaded and then have to
Dan:
Oh.
Charles:
leave everything connected after the call for a couple hours part of the video and the audio.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
And so, yeah, I'm using T-Mobile's 5G home wireless internet and it was really easy to get signed up. It was really easy to set up and I'm getting really good performance. Like definitely cable DSL grade performance out of the thing. And so I'm real tickled about that and all the smart appliances that I have around my place, my cat feeder, my alarm clock, my printer, I could only kind of use off and on when I would fire up the hot spot on my phone. Now they're just all connected all the time. My Google home where I can, you know, tell it, Hey, add such and such to my shopping list. And then it automatically appears on the list on my phone when I'm in the, in the grocery store, all these things that I bought to make my life convenient that I've just been doing without for the last few months. Cause where I'm at, I don't have good wifi. They're all back and I feel great.
Dan:
Wow, that's great. Maybe we can get T-Mobile to sponsor the show, because that was one of the best advertisements for that device that I've ever heard.
Charles:
It's it's
Dan:
My
Charles:
pretty.
Dan:
smart devices are even smarter.
Charles:
I know it's pretty great. I'm real happy with it. And yeah, between T mobile and Keto chow
Dan:
Mmm.
Charles:
milkshakes, I I've been I've been real happy lately with some of the things I've been some of the lifestyle purchases I've been making online. I've got my first bulk shake powder coming in the mail. I believe tomorrow it's going to be delivered. And I, you know, no surprise here, I did decide to which is I bought peanut butter because I've just loved peanut butter flavor and everything. I also love their pistachio and their chocolate toffee, but the peanut butter is my favorite.
Dan:
Nice, nice. That's probably
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
what would have been my move as well. I had
Charles:
It's
Dan:
a
Charles:
so
Dan:
little
Charles:
good.
Dan:
bit of a
Charles:
I mean,
Dan:
peanut
Charles:
and
Dan:
butter problem. Yeah.
Charles:
yeah, and I've, you know, I've tried other, other meal replacement shakes before, like the ready to drink slim fast and stuff like that. And I find that the thing that is working for me with this one is number one, the flavor is is because you add your own fat to it. It doesn't come with its own powdered fat source. It's you pick based on the taste you like, the preparation you're willing to do, and the macros that you need. You pick what source of fat you wanna use. Heavy whipping cream, butter, or things like avocado oil. And I made the leap about a week in to say, okay, I'm gonna give butter a shot because butter's just easier to store. And you have to melt it beforehand straight in, but butter is a little cheaper and a little easier to work with and it's also more dense. So two ounces of butter give me the same macros as four ounces of heavy cream and
Dan:
So.
Charles:
with a little bit less of the bloat.
Dan:
You know, you don't need to keep butter in the fridge, right?
Charles:
Yeah, I think there's something about that. Well,
Dan:
So,
Charles:
I've had butter.
Dan:
yeah.
Charles:
I've had butter turn on me before because I left it out too long. Yeah. And it wasn't salted. The unsalted stuff. I don't think it stays out.
Dan:
Okay, I've never
Charles:
I don't think
Dan:
done
Charles:
indefinitely.
Dan:
unsalted.
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
I've never done unsalted, but I mean, I mean, I've left my butter out for, you know, a month or longer, and it hasn't turned. So that's, it might, I don't know, maybe I just,
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
but that's interesting. I like it because anytime I'm using it, I don't need to soften it. It's already soft, and it just really spreadable. And then I was thinking for your fridge, which you
Charles:
That's true.
Dan:
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, see what the interwebs say about it, but and growing up, my family in Germany never refrigerated their butter. So, and, you know, nobody got sick. And it was always, it was always spreadable. So,
Charles:
Okay,
Dan:
but
Charles:
here's
Dan:
I don't
Charles:
what.
Dan:
see why you need to because it's always, yeah, other fats, we don't need to.
Charles:
Here's what our friends at the USDA have to say, which obviously we take everything
Dan:
Yeah, I'm
Charles:
they
Dan:
a little
Charles:
say
Dan:
biased
Charles:
with the,
Dan:
from that. Okay, well,
Charles:
yeah, we take a
Dan:
go
Charles:
little,
Dan:
ahead.
Charles:
but they say according to the USDA, butter is safe at room temperature, but if it's left out for several days at room temperature, it can, and they don't really qualify as, you know, it can turn rancid causing off flavors. The USDA does not recommend leaving it out for more than one to two days. So what is it can, I guess it can turn,
Dan:
Why?
Charles:
but what are the
Dan:
Right?
Charles:
factors
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
that lead to that? And
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
it says rancid means that it could lead to off flavors, but doesn't say it's not it's not safe It just says it could
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
it could affect
Dan:
I
Charles:
the
Dan:
mean,
Charles:
flavor
Dan:
you know, most other oils like coconut oil, shortening vegetable oil, none
Charles:
Well,
Dan:
of
Charles:
certainly,
Dan:
that stuff
Charles:
ghee
Dan:
is for right. Gee,
Charles:
never needs to be refrigerated.
Dan:
right. Yeah. So I guess maybe depending on how many milk solids are in the butter, because maybe maybe that is what could determine. But I've used the Kerry Gold and left that out. No problem. And then you know, some of the other, you know, fed butters and stuff like that. I don't think I've ever a non salted one. I've never I don't I don't buy non salted so That might be something to do with it. I don't know
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
but
Charles:
maybe. I mean, you know, these, I love salty and sweet together. So there's no real reason that I didn't want, I mean, I just have been
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
starting with unsalted because I didn't want to add any variables into the flavor of these things.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
But, you know, I've never.
Dan:
But I mean, if it saves you from having to melt the butter
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
when you're mixing it in, I just thought, you know, and save some room in your fridge, which is, you know, tiny there. So anyway, so.
Charles:
I may try it because this will be of no use to our listeners, but it may be of use to you, which
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
is good
Dan:
I'm
Charles:
enough
Dan:
curious.
Charles:
for me. I saw a post in one of the Keto Chow groups yesterday that apparently carry gold is buy one, get one right now at Publix.
Dan:
Oh, I stuck up.
Charles:
Yeah, if you're near a public's and if you're on this call right now, then this is good
Dan:
I'm
Charles:
advice.
Dan:
about to hop off this call and get some carry gold. It's hysterical.
Charles:
And if you're not on this call right now, and you're hearing this weeks later too bad, maybe you'll go on sale again. I don't know. Yeah, somebody posted that it's Bogo at Publix right now and I do kind of wonder, I mean, Bogo compared to the cheap stuff I'm buying, which here's another thing I found out recently with buying a little bit of heavy whipping cream and a fair amount of butter,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
where I live here in Kissimmee, the cost on store brand dairy at Walmart and Target is exactly the same. So why would you go to Walmart if you could get the same, you know, cream cheese, butter They both charge the same amount and I would much rather spend my time in a target than in a Walmart
Dan:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Charles:
And so that was that was a pleasant surprise because I just had assumed that oh target target store brand would be way more expensive But
Dan:
Yeah, I didn't
Charles:
at
Dan:
realize
Charles:
least we're
Dan:
that.
Charles:
located it's not
Dan:
Wow.
Charles:
Yeah, and I don't know, maybe in Bentonville, Arkansas, their walmarts are real fancy, but here in Kassemi, the walmarts are, to call them a circus would be insulting to circuses. This, this walmart in Kassemi, it's the one right
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
next to the medieval times on 192, and it is a disaster 24 hours a day.
Dan:
Oh boy.
Charles:
All right, let's see. I thought there was one other thing I wanted to sing the praises of besides my diet shakes and my new internet, but I can't remember what it was. So we'll just keep
Dan:
All right.
Charles:
on truckin' into the material for this week. And this is an interesting one because, you know, we get into some of the manosphere sort of red pilly language quite a bit. attempt to set straight this highly successful and credentialed author
Dan:
Hmm.
Charles:
with my own opinions, which have neither no credentials or success. But I think the way I think about these topics makes more sense than the way he thinks about some of them, or at least the way he expresses some of them in his chapter. So let's dive in. All right. So the title of the chapter is Good Guys vs. Bad Guys. And when I see something like that, my first question is, okay. What does he mean by good guy and what does he mean by bad guy? Right?
Dan:
Mm-hmm
Charles:
And let's see where he goes and why it's right or wrong. So one thing that will sort of be repeated in this chapter is the idea that attractive men are never weak around women. Again, I say, well, what does attractive mean and what does weak mean? Right?
Dan:
I was about to ask about week, right?
Charles:
Yeah, there's a lot of these loaded terms that,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
you know, he just kind of throws out there and people, whatever baggage or social constructs they bring into this conversation, they're bringing all that along with them when they hear weak, they, they think a certain thing and other people can think I think about strength and weakness as it ties to masculinity in particular, but you know, you may be able to make the argument this applies really across the board. Uh, I, I kind of bring it down to emotional regulation. I believe a strong man is able to regulate his emotions and a weak man is just, you He's just no sail and no paddles. He's just along for the ride.
Dan:
So that's interesting. I want to kind of get it dig into the word regulation because
Charles:
Well, I actually, I looked up the definition
Dan:
yeah.
Charles:
on psychology today and I was
Dan:
Oh,
Charles:
ready
Dan:
okay,
Charles:
to share
Dan:
yeah.
Charles:
it with you. Would you like to
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
hear it?
Dan:
yeah,
Charles:
Okay,
Dan:
yeah, yeah, I'd like to, yeah. Let
Charles:
emotional
Dan:
me understand
Charles:
regulation
Dan:
more.
Charles:
is the ability to exert control over one's emotional state. It may involve behaviors such as rethinking a challenging situation to reduce anger or anxiety, hiding visible signs of sadness or fear or focusing on reasons to feel happy or calm.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
So, you know, we all, we all feel, we all feel feelings. We all have emotions and they, for the most part, they arise completely beyond our control. They, they, they bubble up to the surface as a result of things that we're seeing, things that we're doing, things that we're being exposed to. And emotions just happen. But we do have the control over how we react to those emotions and how, how long we stay I mean, anger is a great example. Anger wells up inside of you. And unless you keep thinking thoughts that reinforce the anger, the anger will go away fairly quickly. But a lot of us do get stuck in that cycle. Same with, I mean, anger and grief, and I mean, really any emotion where once it pops up, especially the negative emotions, or the emotions that make us feel bad, we have to keep sort of feeding that fire oxygen if it's going to maintain. Otherwise, it'll just go out on its own if we don't do that.
Dan:
Yeah, what I heard, and I don't know if it was from Dr. Julie, but it was something, 90 seconds is ringing a bell in my mind that if we don't feed our emotion, it goes away after about 90 seconds.
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
And specifically, they were talking about anger. And so that, and that's, that's, that's pretty amazing that, you know, when we, you know, kind of do this. cycling over and over again, this ruminating, this, you know, continued anger and resentment. It's because we're feeding it ourselves.
Charles:
Right. Yeah, and I mean, most of us, you know, one of the things I've learned through mindfulness meditation is most of us spend so much of our day really just lost in thought with thoughts just popping up in our head and getting our attention without us even noticing that that's what's happening where it's interesting. You know, after you engage in meditation, for me it was for a few weeks, it was only then that I started noticing I have in a day and how I'm just constantly, no matter what I'm working on, what I'm doing, what I'm supposed to be thinking about, just random thoughts about the things around me or things from my past, they just pop into your head and you don't even, until you've trained yourself to use your attention as a tool, you don't even notice that it's happening. And when he talks about the difference between strong men and weak men, it's very hard for men are men that can direct their attention to the things that are important to them, and weak men are men who are just constantly distracted by the feelings and thoughts that they can't control.
Dan:
Yeah. And that's that's a great point that you're kind of leading us down the path here is, you know, a big selling point for people who guys who feel like they want to improve, become a little bit stronger. You know, you really gave a good sales pitch for starting to meditate, because if you're not aware of what you're doing, how can you change it? So if you want to you feel like you are, you know, want to be a little bit stronger than where you are. And you're not meditating, that might be something to consider doing is finding ways to become a little bit more present, and a little bit more aware of the things you're doing and saying. And through that, you give yourself a little bit more space and allow yourself to make some additional decisions, and then potentially also regulate your reactions and your emotions as well.
Charles:
Right. And if it makes you feel better, don't think of it. And I think we've shared this before on the podcast. Don't think of it as clearing your mind and staring at your belly button for an hour a day. That's not what it is. Think of it more of attention is a tool or a muscle just like anything else. And you're not going to get proficient at it or strong at it unless you exercise it. And so the goal of mindfulness meditation is to exercise your ability to pay attention attention to and not the things you don't want to pay attention to. And, you know, just starting out your day with 10 minutes of it can have a profound effect on how well you are the rest of the day at applying attention to the things you want to apply attention to. And that's, you know, another part of this strength that he talks about, and we'll talk about it in a few scenarios coming up real soon, is, you know, it seems like you can't really get control over your state or your feelings until you develop the skill of being able to recognize how you're feeling and put a label on it. Like you and I have ordered those feelings wheels where they have the big categories that then drill down into more precise categories of feelings. state you're currently experiencing, it's shocking how much better things will feel when you can specifically label what it is that you're feeling and then try to trace back, you know, okay, what happened to make me feel frustrated and just that that exercise interrupting the cycle of reinforcing your negative thoughts to say, okay, I'm gonna take a step outside of myself and I'm gonna label It just short circuits that whole negative feedback loop of making you feel worse and worse. And for me, that is when I do that, that is when I'm at the point where I can make my strongest decisions and know that I'm doing the right thing and I'm doing the thing that I'll be able to look back and feel good about, which, again, you know, this idea of being strong or alpha or whatever cliched language you want to use. to, you know, living a life where you know the difference between right and wrong, and you're willing to stick to it, even when it's uncomfortable. And that's, that's how you can know, okay, when I look back at what I'm about to do right now, a year from now, I'm going to be able to feel good that I, that I made the choice that was true to the person I want to be. And for me, there's, there's nothing stronger or more alpha than that.
Dan:
Yeah, excuse me, having having the choice is, yeah, you're basically providing yourself with a choice at that point, rather than just kind of going along, going along for the ride and letting you know, letting your kind of your emotions kind of dictate your thoughts.
Charles:
Right. And you know, what is, what is it that makes you attractive? It's, it's beating control of yourself and, and executing the, the daily, I mean, tiny habits, for example, the daily tiny habits that lead to you becoming the person you want to be. I mean, there's, there's nothing stronger or more attractive than that because then, then you're spending your time really growing into the person and the man you want to be. And then the people who are attracted to that are the ones you want to be around. And the people that are turned off by that are the ones you don't want And it's really the more authentic you are, the higher quality that people you surround yourself will be because they'll be around you because they want to be around the real you.
Dan:
Right. And it comes down to being intentional, right? So you're basically, you know the way you want to be, and you are practicing that. You are thinking about it ahead of time so that you are able to execute and be that person. Another way that I like to do that is with a five-minute journal.
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
It asks you what kind of things, you know, what would make today great. And it stops and allows me to pause and think, OK, what do I want to get out of the day today? And it's amazing what happens because sometimes in the morning, I'll write out three things about how I wanna have, focus and energy for a client. I wanna pay attention and I wanna be open to, the experience where I did the run group yesterday and just be open to talking to new people, meeting new people and just really enjoying myself. And then something else might be, when I talk to them or write to them later on. And then so much happens during the day. I completely forget what I wrote in the morning and I sit down at the end of the night to review and answer a couple more questions out of that journal. And it's amazing that I look back and if I have written out those types of things, it's basically setting my intention. And I think about the day and when I'm doing those things, I've forgotten about it. It's weird. to be open
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
and, you know, meeting new people and everything, or, you know, I'm going to be kind and patient with my sister. Those things, but it did happen.
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
But it was, but it wasn't a cut, it was like, when I was doing it, I wasn't consciously remembering, oh, I set those intentions at the beginning of the day. It was like a subconscious thing. But I think, think about it. And it actually did happen. And it's kind of cool. I'm like, wow, I like program my subconscious woke up
Charles:
Yeah, that's
Dan:
and those
Charles:
great.
Dan:
things actually did happen and it happens more often than it doesn't.
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
It's pretty crazy.
Charles:
Yeah, setting intentions in that way, uh, it can, it can really get the job done because yeah, it just, it kind of sticks with you and, and you don't even, you're not having conscious thoughts about it. It just influences your, your thoughts and your behaviors for the rest of the day or,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
or even even longer than that. And, uh, yeah, I've noticed it with, you know, my eating over the last, you know, two and a half weeks where, you know, I just, I just wake up with this that day with the things I put in my mouth and then I'm going to track it all and I'm going to keep my my target in mind and there are most days I don't hit my target exactly for an example for calories for example on carbs. I hit it pretty much every day, but calories I'll usually go over a little bit Like yesterday, I think I went over 36 calories by what my goal was Yeah, I mean that that is still feels like 100% victory because that's a two minute walk, 30 calories, that's nothing. And so maybe two minute jog. But that is something to feel good about. And yeah, every morning, the first thing I do after I get up, use a restroom, put on a pair of shorts, I weigh myself, and I remember all day, and hopefully, this isn't bleeding into the area of disordered eating, But I'm using that scale as a motivator to remind me of why I'm trying to cut my body fat down and what it's gonna get me. And every day I step on that and over Bluetooth it puts it on an app on my phone and I can always just open it up and look at a graph that is almost all downward lines to say, okay, you're doing a thing that is hard for you, it's hard for a lot of people, but you've decided it's worth it you know, multiple times a day, you're doing the thing that you feel like you should do instead of the thing that your body might be telling you you want to do, which is, you know, grab a candy bar at the gas station. And it's like, I realize, okay, I could grab that candy bar and it wouldn't ruin everything, but I'm just not the guy that grabs candy bars at the gas station anymore. So I'm going to grab a couple hard boiled eggs or a little bit of string cheese or something
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
like that instead because
Dan:
That's,
Charles:
Thank you.
Dan:
yep, the lines with your identity. Yeah.
Charles:
Yeah. And so, yeah, setting, setting that intention though, and the earlier you can do it, the better. I mean, you know, BJ talked about BJ fog talked about, you know, as soon as his feet touch the ground, he gives himself that little, what is it that he says his little statement?
Dan:
So today's going to be a great day. It's the Maui habit.
Charles:
Okay, the Maui habit, yeah. And yeah, I'm not doing that exactly, but I'm doing something like that every morning when it comes to, I mean, you know, other than
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
my work and my relationships trimming some of this excess fat that I'm carrying is a very big priority for me right now. And so I'm doing things to make that go the way I want it to go.
Dan:
Yeah, that's great, man. Congratulations on that. That's fantastic.
Charles:
Thanks, I'm really, I'm enjoying it and it's teaching me a lot about, about eating and, and feeling, you know, like feeling hungry, feeling hungry is not that bad. And I'm not, and I'm never going around starving. I'm never completely distracted by how hungry I am. I think a lot of that's because I'm eating a lot of fat and a fair amount of protein, but, uh, it's never, I never feel bad about not eating as much as I used to is it has been two and a half, maybe three weeks since I ate a meal and just had to lay down because I felt so bloated and stuffed. I'm just not doing that anymore at all and I don't miss that feeling in the slightest.
Dan:
And that's great that you're noticing those things. Absolutely.
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
That absolutely helps with, you know, with understanding your why and the difference that you're seeing, being able to remember that and feel that on a level like that. That absolutely something that's priceless.
Charles:
Yeah, that's, that is, and I didn't realize how, how frequently and how unpleasant that feeling is when you, you know, you go out with your friends and you order an appetizer and an entrain a big dessert. And then, you know, you get in your car after you're done eating and you're like, Oh, I feel like, Oh, I just feel so bad.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
And yeah, I think if I went and did that today, I would feel like absolute garbage because I'm just not used to it. So, all right, let's, let's talk I'm glad that he picked the three that he did and I have a lot of things to say on all of them Hopefully you do too
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
Okay, so scenario one and again This is the difference between as he calls it good guys bad guys strong weak alpha beta blah blah blah Your girlfriend tells you she wants to break up with you What is the strongest course of action you can take and what is the weakest course of action you can take and before? We get into what he says What are your impressions? What's the strongest course of action you can take? Or I might even say the healthiest course of action because for me, I definitely equate mental health and strength with each other. What do you think is the strongest and weakest thing you can do?
Dan:
For me, the strongest thing to do is to start a conversation and ask why, right? It's like,
Charles:
Yes.
Dan:
for me, it would be being okay, knowing that there's going to be some criticism coming my way,
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
because clearly, it takes two. For the most part, there's something that I probably could improve on or something I wasn't aware of, but I'm going to welcome racism.
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
So it'll be my job to determine whether it's constructive or not. But really kind of taking responsibility for my part of the relationship, right? And just having being okay, having something that makes me feel uncomfortable, which is going to be, you know, a conversation about a
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
You know which so and I think yeah, it's it's limited. It's not just those two choices, right? The weakest course of action probably Yeah, I mean I probably agree with him in this case is just begging for her to not leave that doesn't that you know, that's not The way to go up. It's not I don't think that's a good way to approach Getting some information and understanding more so in either way I would want to get some information on here and understand what, you know, what am I missing? What did I do? Things like that, right?
Charles:
Yeah, I would, uh, I'll start with the weakest. I think even worse than that is just flat out not accepting it, like denying it. Say, you can't break up with me. We're not breaking up. I mean,
Dan:
Oh,
Charles:
that's.
Dan:
that's that's the interesting anything about that. Yeah.
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
that is a move that some guys pull in that scenario where they just refuse to acknowledge the breakup or refuse to accept the breakup, which
Dan:
Not
Charles:
is terrible.
Dan:
just as a heads up, it's not just guys that do that.
Charles:
No, yeah, no,
Dan:
Um,
Charles:
I know.
Dan:
yeah.
Charles:
Yeah, I have not yet experienced that one from either side. I've not done that
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
nor had someone just tell me, no, we're not breaking up, but that is
Dan:
I am.
Charles:
something that can happen and is certainly not effective for that person to achieve their goal of not breaking up. And actually, if anything, it pushes the partner away. So yeah, that would be the thing is basically that your partner has the ability to break up with you, which anybody can break up with anybody anytime for any reason. I mean, we don't live in a society where, you know, you're forced to stay with someone that you don't want to stay with. So trying to do that is probably the worst thing you can do. The second worst thing you can do is as he says, you know, begging and pleading, and I've certainly done that. I've been broken up with women who I didn't want to break up with. And initially I started like, okay, well, this is happening over hours or days, it definitely devolved into me begging and pleading. And guess what? It doesn't work. Because number
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
one, number one, it does not make you appear attractive. And number two, you've got to acknowledge and accept that people have the ability to do things you don't want them to do, even though it hurts you. I mean, people get to make choices for themselves that affect you that you might not And it sucks, but that's the way that it goes. Whether somebody's not in a friendship or a professional relationship like firing you or they're breaking up with you, you've got to acknowledge that they have a right to do that even though you don't want them to do it.
Dan:
So here's something I just thought of. And I don't know, let me know if you think this analogy works. So
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
in a lot of supermarkets, they offer free samples of things, right?
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
At Costco especially, and
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
sometimes at Publix. And a few times, I've walked by there, and it's not something that I'm interested in. And I was just thinking, how would I feel about that product if the person behind the counter the product after I said
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
no.
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
Would I value that product more or would I think, oh my God, what is wrong with this product? Like what,
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
why are you, I didn't want it to begin with where it's at and now you are begging me so there's something that I don't even know about perhaps that is
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
wrong with this product. Why are you so desperate at this point? What don't I know? And I'm just thinking, if I was in a relationship and the same thing type of happened. Yeah, you are not in or if I were to beg and plead and yeah, you are you are diminishing the value, the little value that you might have left
Charles:
Exactly.
Dan:
in that person's eyes is now completely gone.
Charles:
Right. Because I mean, why, you know, we won't spend the rest of the episode on breakups, but maybe we'll do an episode on breakups at some point because it's, it's important and it's something that all of us pretty much experienced at one point or another. But why do breakups happen? Break, why and when do breakups happen? Generally speaking, breakups happen when one person's emotional attraction for the other person is at an all time low and it's so low that they can't see things getting better than it currently is, right?
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
You know, you react, you're already in a position and we'll stick with the situation of a guy and a girl. You're already in a position where your girl is the least attracted to you that she's ever been probably for the whole time you've known each other. She's so unattracted to you and it's rarely physical. It's usually about behavior and emotions and the way that you're, you know, you're what you're bringing to the relationship. She's so unattracted to you. She feels like all I can do is break up because people don't enjoy
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
Nobody gets pleasure out of dumping a partner. It's awkward. It's uncomfortable and it's painful for both people every time.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
I can't say every time, but almost every time. And so they're not doing this because they want to do it. They're doing it because they feel like they have to do it. And so while you're at your most unattractive, you respond with either denying her autonomy to break up with you or begging and pleading and trying to convince her not to.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
And
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
so at that point, the only card you're playing is maybe she'll feel sorry enough for me, or maybe she'll be worried enough about me that she'll undo the breakup, in which case that is no foundation to build a relationship
Dan:
No,
Charles:
on.
Dan:
absolutely not. That's not... That's... You don't want to be a charity case? Come on.
Charles:
No, no, because not only because it's bad for your dignity, but you can't build a relationship on that
Dan:
No,
Charles:
or
Dan:
and you
Charles:
restore
Dan:
know, you're,
Charles:
a relationship on
Dan:
you're
Charles:
that.
Dan:
basically saying, Hey, could, could we continue on and I'll just be a burden? That's that's basically what you're asking for at that point
Charles:
right.
Dan:
in terms of take care of me, you know, or feel bad for me, feel sorry for me. Yeah, add that to the plate of things that you're already busy doing. Yeah. Okay. Right. That's the
Charles:
Right,
Dan:
yeah.
Charles:
so,
Dan:
Makes
Charles:
okay,
Dan:
no sense.
Charles:
so let's jump back to your Costco free food sample analogy and use that to describe what the strongest thing you can do during a relationship is, or at least one of the strongest things. So if you went to that Costco person and they asked you to have the sample, Costco or Publix, wherever you like to do your shopping, and you said, no, thank you. And their response was something more like, well, I think these are So if you change your mind, I'll be here, come back by later. That would be the kind of response that would get you thinking after you do some more shopping. You know, maybe I could go for a little of that pastrami with hot mustard. And
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
then you wouldn't feel weird about going back to have any because you weren't oversold, you weren't made to feel guilty, you weren't traumatized by the fact that you didn't want any.
Dan:
And you weren't pressured to come back. It was
Charles:
right.
Dan:
purely, hey, you know what? I see this is, you know, here's the value. And it's up to you if you, you know, we'll be here, open door, yeah. No, that's great. That's a great analogy. I like it. I like the way
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
you
Charles:
so
Dan:
phrased that.
Charles:
I would say the strongest thing to do, in addition to, you know, maybe I can see asking for feedback, trying to get to the bottom of why this is happening. I think that's legitimate, and I don't think there's anything weak about that at all. I think the emphasis I would put on it is, the way that he describes the strongest course of action is walk away with your head held high. It's like, you know what, that's, while that you care about, just saying, okay, we're broken up then and turning around and leaving is going to seem weird and
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
awkward and fake. And I think the more and one thing we've talked about on this podcast is vulnerability is one of the easiest and most authentic ways to demonstrate strength. And that doesn't mean, you know, crying your eyes out and saying this, you know, this is vulnerability is honest strength in difficult circumstances. And so saying, okay, this hurts a lot, this disappoints me a lot, but I understand and acknowledge you have the right to do this. And if you change your mind, reach out to me and we can talk about it. And I think those two things together, be honest about, hey, I don't like this, isn't what I want and this doesn't feel good. But then, hey, if you'd like to talk about this or even, maybe you don't want to do that. Maybe there were problems in the relationship that you're now acknowledging or feeling as well. And you could say, okay, this feels bad, but I understand and I wish you the best. That is remarkably more strong than trying to beg and plead and get somebody to change their mind. Because the only thing that will change a partner's mind after they break up with go up in their eyes, which strengthen distance as far as I found are the only things that can make that happen.
Dan:
Yeah. And I think also by having that conversation with them, if they're willing to have it, even if it doesn't work out with that person, the fact that they're doing you a favor by giving you some insight into something that you may not have seen. Now, again, it might be completely, you don't know what they're going to say, and it may not, it just might be, hey, it might be a complete, eyes or something that's not important to you. But if they're willing to at least share some of some of what you didn't see with you, they'll just prepare you better for the next relationship that you have.
Charles:
Yes, absolutely. And again, this is a topic I'd like to go into more depth on because I think dealing with breakups is something that there was a study that came out a couple of years ago that said, pretty much across the board, it's harder on men than it is on women to deal
Dan:
Mmm.
Charles:
with a breakup. And I'd like to dig into that study a little bit and talk about the reasons why. And some of the things that have gotten me through breakups to be helpful. And also the things involved with if you're broken up with and you are not okay with that result and you would like to reconcile with your partner. The great thing is the steps that it takes to survive a breakup in a healthy way and leave the door open to getting your partner back that broke up with you, they're the same steps. You do
Dan:
Mm-hmm.
Charles:
the same
Dan:
Mm-hmm.
Charles:
thing in both cases to move on in a healthy way and to possibly reattract your It's the same thing. So we should do an episode on that because I
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
think that's
Dan:
love
Charles:
something
Dan:
to.
Charles:
that the people will be able to benefit from. Okay. Scenario number two, a woman doesn't respond to your text messages. You and I have spent some time in the last few years on dating apps and boy,
Dan:
Mm-hmm.
Charles:
does that happen where you match with somebody, you talk to them for a little while, things seem to be going great and then poof, they're just gone. And
Dan:
Yoke.
Charles:
you don't know why, you don't know how. It just happened and you're just kind of there along for the ride. that you do. And when I talk to you and some of my other friends about this, you know, one of the, the big questions is, you know, okay, she went silent. Should I send her another message? What should it be? Yada, yada, yada. And those, those are hard questions and it's hard to know. But I, I've generally, um, for myself, I, I adopted a policy when I was in the business of meeting new women and socializing with them and things like that and going out If I ended a text with a question, particularly a logistical question about seeing the person next, talking to the person next, whatever, and they didn't respond to me, I would die of old age before I would send them another text.
Dan:
Yeah. And I think that's that is valid, you know, and the older I get, the more I realize that's absolutely correct. And if somebody wants something, they get it, they go for it, they make it easy, they don't make it more difficult, you don't have to question. It will be completely obvious if the other person is interested in seeing you get it to know you, they will make it obvious they will you will become their priority to think about how as from a And how you think about them throughout the day, and you can't wait to engage with them or find an opportunity. You're looking for ways to engage with them, right? And
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
whether it's over phone or text or email or in person, whatever that is, it's gonna be the same thing for a woman. And if that's the case, it's gonna be completely obvious when they respond to you. And then even if, so, and then, I've heard a couple of strange incidents once in a while man was engaging with a woman and she was basically a little very standoffish. And then it turns out through a friend, he finds out that she actually is interested in him. But that's a warning sign. So if you are pretending to be not interested at all or too scared to engage on a basic level, this was, you know, just,
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
you know, over text or social whatever, but you don't do it, then there's world where, you know, that's a red flag to me. So I feel like a healthy, healthy person is going to make it very obvious that they, that you are important to them. And there's not going to be a question. So all these guys with questions, Oh, does she like me? And, and or, you know, what's going on here or whatever. And if there's a question, then the answer is no, she doesn't like you. That's the way I'm looking at it.
Charles:
Yeah, or, you know, putting it in the tiny habits terms, maybe she does like you, but, you know, the motivation, the prompt, there's, there's something going on that she is not feeling compelled to engage in a particular action of reaching out or responding to you. And, you know, I think Dr. Glover, the guy who wrote No More Mr. Nice Guy in his other book, Dating Essentials for Men, does a great deal, a great job of making this clear when it's like, you know, you're asking yourself a question, you know, why isn't she responding to me? really the only answer that matters is because she's not. You know, she can have any of a thousand reasons that you may see as legitimate or not legitimate, but it doesn't matter. She's doing what she wants to do and she's not doing what she doesn't want to do. And you just have to live with that. And the only way that that gets easier is by having an abundance mindset instead of a scarcity mindset. If every
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
girl you meet or connect with, you feel like this might be the last girl who could possibly end up making me happy. then you're going to just chase her to the ends of the earth because you think she's your only shot at sex or long-term commitment or whatever it is or children, whatever it is you're looking for. If you decide that, okay, this girl that I'm currently fixated on is the only way I can get this thing that I need, then you're going to do a lot of things that are weak in terms of what this book talks about and just a turnoff to her because you're acting like, I mean, desperation, it reeks whether you're at a job interview or on a date. And the only way to not feel desperate is not
Dan:
So here's something to think about that just kind of occurred to me as you were describing that scenario is I'm wondering if our tendency in terms of our male brain to one be hunters and to fix things are what really gets in the way in and causes issues here where we're trying to one. this partner. And two, we have Mr. Fixit brains a lot. And so it's just like, well, if I could figure out why she's not interested or responding or doing these things, then I can fix it, right? So I feel like
Charles:
Bye.
Dan:
between those two tendencies, we get ourselves down these rabbit holes of, you know, spinning about, you know, and not, you know, hey, I really like this thing, I'm hunting it, I'm in the zone with that. And then I want to fix it and figure out how I can get that. rather than what you just said is having an abundance mindset and go, hey, look, this is a no-go. Let it go and look for something else. And it's difficult to go from something that you like and you're excited about to nothing because that's really
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
what you're saying.
Charles:
Yes.
Dan:
And just
Charles:
Yes.
Dan:
a belief that there
Charles:
Yes.
Dan:
is more fish in the sea. And that's tough because this was real and this belief and this philosophy really tangible, right?
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
And so that's why I think a lot of us, and I'm guilty of that too. We're still got older that I'm able to do that a little bit more quickly. It's not that I don't do it at all anymore, but I'm just, as I get an older, I can do it, I can move on a little bit more quickly than I had in the past.
Charles:
Yeah, I really think about it in terms of the poker players mindset, which is, you know, when you're playing poker, you know what cards you have. I'm thinking of Texas Holden specifically, but this can apply to other games. You know what cards you have. You don't know what cards the other guy has, right?
Dan:
Mmm.
Charles:
But when you make decisions that, you know, favor the best psychology and the best odds and the best math, you can make all the right decisions. that particular hand. But if you make the right decisions over the course of an entire tournament or in an entire lifetime of playing poker, you're going to be a successful poker player. So what you have to, you know, you have to train your brain to get the dopamine rush from the idea that I made the optimal decision, even if I didn't get the optimal result.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
And that's the same thing with interacting with with women in this case, you know, when it comes to the way you behave on a date, the way you ask girls out the way you text with your girls, you need to feel the motivation, the fulfillment, knowing, you know what, I handled that situation the right way. If I had it to do over again, I would have done the same thing. So even if the result wasn't what you were looking for, but your behavior was something that you could look back on a year from now and say, you know what, I handled that the best way I possibly could. It's just rewiring that reward center where it's not the result that you're tied to, but knowing that you took the right step. And,
Dan:
Yeah,
Charles:
you know,
Dan:
that's
Charles:
I
Dan:
great.
Charles:
mean, applies to everything in life. I mean, again, bringing it back to my current food diet that I'm so preoccupied with. You know, there's gonna be a time very soon where I make all the right decisions in what I eat in a day, but the number on the scale still doesn't go down. And I need to get my satisfaction out of knowing that I made all the right decisions that day, not that the next morning I didn't see the number I was hoping I would see on the scale.
Dan:
Yeah. And, you know, take that momentum that you've built from feeling good about making so many right decisions consistently for a while to then look for other places in your life, perhaps, that you could implement similar type of behaviors, some type of habits. So maybe it is now, you know, exercising in a different way or a little bit more, whatever that is. And maybe it's, it's, you you know, add some weight training a little bit more, things like that and take the excitement and apply it to that and not just say, hey, all right, now that I'm like making any progress, I'm just gonna go back to my old, my old ways and start, you know, picking out on high carb foods and stuff, you know.
Charles:
Exactly. All right, let's talk about scenario number three. Your girlfriend tells you she just wants to be friends. You know, the good news is, fellas, you will experience that less the older that you get. And, you know, for the most part, I date women, or I have dated women, certainly since I became single in my mid-30s that, I guess late 30s. If you're in a relationship with them workout, they're not going to try to say, let's be friends. I think that's more of a high school or college thing, right?
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
Or young adulthood. But the bottom line is don't accept relationships with people that you don't want with them. And this applies also to not just when you've been in a relationship with a girlfriend or a wife, but even if you're just getting to know a girl, and you decide, hey, I'm attracted to her, I'm gonna ask her out. And she says, Oh, I'm not interested in I mean number one, a lot of mistake, a mistake a lot of guys make is they never actually come out and have that conversation with a girl that they've gotten friendly with. They'll never actually say, hey, I'm attracted to you and I'd like to date you. They would rather just, you know, see if they can backdoor their way into a relationship through friendship, which as, as you know, Dan hardly, hardly ever works.
Dan:
Yep.
Charles:
boyfriend, but not if that's what your plan was the whole time. Right? That's, that's the thing. If you're, if you make friends with a girl and you
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
are friends and you enjoy your friendship, it can turn into something else. It's happened to me, but if you go into the friendship thinking, ooh, I'd like her to be my girlfriend, but I don't want to just ask her out. So I'm just going to be your friend for a while and see what happens. It doesn't, in my experience, that never works.
Dan:
And I think one of the reasons why it doesn't work is because none of us are that good of an actor to pretend
Charles:
you
Dan:
to be friends when we really want something else. It will come
Charles:
right.
Dan:
out women are so much more intuitive than we are when it comes to behaviors because they have to be,
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
you know, basically
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
they
Charles:
the risk
Dan:
they
Charles:
is very high.
Dan:
the risk is very high and and you know they need to protect themselves. experiment in there where, and I don't know if it was this chapter or previously where they had women, both women and men looking at couples on video, they're watching
Charles:
Thank
Dan:
these
Charles:
you.
Dan:
video scenes of couples and you couldn't, I think they like, they couldn't hear what they were saying to each other and men were able to guess what was happening actually in that scene. It was what like 30% of the time or something like that and women could guess like it was like 80% of the time.
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
going on based purely
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
on body language.
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
And so that just gives you, and it was quite a few people that they took the sample from. So, and that's been my experience throughout my life as well is a lot of times, if I'm with a lady, they're able to tell me what's going on in the right in this restaurant between all these different couples. And that, it's just amazing to me, this almost sixth sense, this almost magical psychic ability I look at it as And so guys, you know, trying to, you know, be a girl's friend, they're going to know whether you're really interested in them or not. And, you know, so I think they're going to know all along. And it's interesting that you say that as we get older, we're going to run into less incidents of girls going, Hey, I just want to be friends. And I'm just wondering if that might be because when we're younger, a lot of times we're in school and we meet these girls like through common areas.
Charles:
Oh
Dan:
wearing
Charles:
yeah, you gotta
Dan:
class.
Charles:
still be around them.
Dan:
So
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
my thought is when a girl tells you they just want to be friends, it's more about I just I don't want to be uncomfortable
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
when we see each other. Not
Charles:
That's
Dan:
necessarily
Charles:
fair,
Dan:
she's
Charles:
yeah.
Dan:
like, Oh, you know, you've got so many great qualities that I
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
want you as a friend
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
or, you know,
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
it's more like, Hey, let's just be cordial with each other. And we let's not be uncomfortable with each other because, you know, and that's a fair thing to like, yeah, if you if you were constantly hitting on her and she has to keep turning you down, that sucks for her, you know. And the same thing would happen if the roles were reversed as well.
Charles:
Yeah, I remember, you know, this wasn't a girlfriend telling me, but I met a girl at a speed dating event, and we matched and went out for one one date. And then I texted her a couple days later, I think, and asked her, you know, she wanted to go out again. And she said, No, I don't really see a I am all full of slots. All my friendship slots are full. I am attracted to you and I'd like to spend time with you again, so if you change your mind, let me know. And about a week later, I got a text from her a little after midnight and she said, are
Dan:
You
Charles:
you up?
Dan:
up?
Charles:
And I honestly do think that the
Dan:
Hmm.
Charles:
if I had said yeah, great, let's be buddies. I don't think
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
that text would have come, but I was I was willing to say, no, I don't want to be your friend. I mean, she's a nice girl, but she wasn't the kind of person that I would hang out with for other
Dan:
Now
Charles:
reasons.
Dan:
that's interesting because but that so that was I mean you were you know that you were older when that happened
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
so
Charles:
she was not.
Dan:
Okay, all right, but here's this is interesting. So when you didn't have any common stomping grounds with her, right, you just
Charles:
No.
Dan:
met her once at a speed dating. So if this is something interesting to pick into here a little bit because she said she just wants to be friends. So to me, if you weren't like working with her or seeing her on a regular basis, to me, there is something behind that. you, you know, beyond being a buddy. And that was obvious when she reengaged with you afterwards. So something to think about if the girl offers that and there's not a chance that you're going to run into her on a regular basis. I'm curious if they say, you know, hey, I just
Charles:
Well, here's what I think was going on.
Dan:
Okay.
Charles:
This was a while ago, but. I was younger than I am now, but she was also early mid-20s. So I
Dan:
Okay.
Charles:
think she was still in the pattern of when I'm asked out by a guy and I don't wanna go out with him, the thing to say is let's just be friends. Even though we
Dan:
Okay, maybe.
Charles:
weren't in a college or work scenario, I think she was probably still on that playbook
Dan:
in that mindset.
Charles:
because she was a younger gal. And so the easiest way to let a guy down easy,
Dan:
fair.
Charles:
how to let men down easy because guys
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
can get weird when they're turned down and, you know, again, try to beg, try to plead, try to convince, not accept no. I mean, there's there's a lot of things a guy can do that makes life awkward on women when they don't, when the guy doesn't get what he wants. And so things like, Hey, let's just be friends is a way that women have kind of developed to soften that below. So I think that's what she was attempting to do.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
And my response to that was say, you know, no, I'm not interested. shake things, that shakes things up a little or it's like, well, wait a second, I offered this guy, usually when a guy, I turn a guy down and I offer him friendship, he accepts it, this guy didn't. So what's, what's different about him?
Dan:
Yeah, yeah, I could see that I could see that
Charles:
Okay, so there's a couple more things. Those are the three scenarios that I want to talk about, but there's a couple other points I want to hit real quick in this chapter of
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
one good definition that he makes of being strong that I really like is this. Strong actions and behaviors are actions and behaviors that make you feel good about yourself. See, that's so much, that strips away all the alpha, beta, strong, weak nonsense that he kind of hits pretty hard look back and feel good about yourself for a week action is something that you'll look back and say, oh, I wish I didn't do that.
Dan:
Yeah, I think a lot of that is also being kind to yourself and giving yourself that priority in terms of you know. say this. you know, a little bit of self-respect, I guess, right?
Charles:
Yeah. Another thing he hits is a definition that we we talked about in great detail in our first episodes way back when we did No More Mr. Nice Guy. A Nice Guy is a guy who tries to please women by pretending to be kind and chivalrous. But that does nothing to instill attraction and pretending is the key there because
Dan:
Right? And I think the same thing goes back to being what you talked about was with your intention when you meet the girl, if you're going to say you're going to be a friend, but you really want to date her, you're pretending at that point, right?
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
And, and yeah, and you, you're doing these things to pretend you're something that you're, you're really, you're not with, in terms of that, what you're looking for that relationship. And that's, that's going to, that's going to scream to a lady. She'll know, she'll know guys.
Charles:
And that's what makes nice guys not so nice,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
right? Because they pretend and they play a role because they think they have to, they can't be themselves, so they have to pretend to be something else to get what they want from somebody. Because, you know, a woman, if you just came out and asked a woman for what you want from her, she would, there's no way that she would be open to that. So you have to pretend to be something else and want something else so that you can get what you need from her. And that is the nice guy behavior that is not nice ever.
Dan:
Hold on a second. I just thought about the Costco reference here in that respect too. I just wanted to share this one too So imagine now would you get that free sample from you finally? You know you have that pastrami with mustard and then you start to walk away and they go hey Wait a minute. What were you going? And then what do you mean? It was a free sample. Oh, well you took my free sample and you're not gonna buy any now and
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
If she
Charles:
exactly.
Dan:
right and so
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
and it's like well, I thought this was a free sample. Oh, yeah But I mean, how can you possibly do this? How can you take this free sample and
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
not buy any from me? I think I think that's the same case if if you then
Charles:
Though it is,
Dan:
Right,
Charles:
yeah.
Dan:
right. If you know, you go in with this friendship, you know cover facade and and then
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
and then because and now and now this person behind the desk is is brewing And just really resentful because you didn't buy any of their their to pastrami
Charles:
Yeah, and I mean, we're not, I'm not talking about anything that I haven't done when I was, you know, late teens, early 20s, especially where
Dan:
Oh, me too.
Charles:
it's like, you
Dan:
Oh,
Charles:
know,
Dan:
I'm not innocent, yeah.
Charles:
okay, I'll be your friend and we'll do all the things that friends do with each other. But then when, as a friend, you tell me about this really exciting guy you met and the fun date that you had with him, then I'll get all resentful and moody because I'm pissed off about it. off on several occasions.
Dan:
Yeah, don't tell me about that corned beef in aisle three. I don't wanna hear you bragging
Charles:
Exactly.
Dan:
about, how you can't get enough of that corned beef in your mouth. I mean, honestly.
Charles:
Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely like that. Okay, so here's where he goes back into a definition that I don't like. He says, an alpha male embraces all that is masculine. He doesn't care what society thinks or what his family, friends and other people think. That's a bunch of bullshit. To be a strong man, you don't have to not, it's not a requirement that you don't care what Regardless of what people think about it. So it's not just it's not just you don't care what people think It's that I care about what people think but I don't give it priority over what I think what I think is
Dan:
So,
Charles:
the right thing I'll do the right thing
Dan:
right.
Charles:
Because I think it's the right thing and I would love it if society agreed with me and thought that that I was doing You know what I should do and all that but even if they don't think that I'm doing the right thing I'm gonna do it anyway because it matters more to me than it does what they think of me
Dan:
Right. So he's basically telling people to be a sociopath. Right? Don't don't care what anybody else thinks about
Charles:
Yeah,
Dan:
what you're
Charles:
that's
Dan:
doing.
Charles:
that's and that's
Dan:
And
Charles:
just
Dan:
it's impossible.
Charles:
unreasonable.
Dan:
It really
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
it's it's impossible in order for you to be able to connect with other people if you don't care what they think. And I've gotten
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
over I've heard that too for years. Oh, you can't care what other people think. No, you can you should care what other people going on in your environment and the people around you, but also don't forget what your needs are and what your desires are and do some digging based on all of that information. Don't just exclude information from your thoughts and your decision for making progress.
Charles:
Yeah, because I mean, the way he talks about it, it sounds like if you're this kind of man that he's idealizing, then when you find yourself in a position where you have to make a decision to do the thing that will make you more liked and more popular, or to do the thing that aligns with your own values. people like you and a decision that is what you believe is the right thing to do, that's supposed to be one of the hardest things as a man that you experience and you're still supposed to do the thing that you think is right. And that's what makes it valuable because it's hard, not because it's easy.
Dan:
Yeah, and genetically we're pre-wired to live in small social groups and in society. And it was very disadvantageous of anyone to go against what the group was trying to do. You basically, it was a life or death situation. So our hormones, our fight or flight responses, our anxiety, that's linked to trying to fit in to do things. is just unpopular. It isn't easy, and it's not something you just snap your fingers and do. Those hard decisions know that it's going to be uncomfortable, know that you're going to feel anxiety and fear. Sometimes you're going to do it anyway, and it might get easier over time, but definitely you can't just ignore what other people think and your role in society either.
Charles:
Yeah, I think back to something I heard the comic Whitney Cummings say on a podcast she was on where, you know, the the biggest fear that people have is public speaking. More than death even is
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
having to get in front of a group and she tied that back to I believe she read it somewhere. I don't think she did any independent research, but the only you know, when we were evolving as hunter gatherers, the only time you had to make a speech in front of a bunch of people was if you were trying to convince them not to put you out of the tribe.
Dan:
that makes sense.
Charles:
So, yeah,
Dan:
Thinking
Charles:
so of course,
Dan:
about it logically, yeah.
Charles:
yes. So of course that would be the thing that riles up your anxiety the most is, you know, okay, I'm in a scenario where it feels like I'm having to convince these people that I'm worthy of not being kicked out of their group.
Dan:
And I think that also translates when you are trying to sell anything as well. It's
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
almost a type of speech where you are just like you were trying to sell yourself to the group to not be extradited. Same
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
thing, when you're trying to sell a product, I feel like a lot of that anxiety comes in and that's why a lot of people, they shy away from selling anything. And that can also come down to like selling yourself well to people when you are meeting new people and
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
you're trying to, you know, you're being an advocate for yourself and the things that you do in your life. And so I think that's why there's a lot of, I think, that kind of, there's some social anxiety that plays into that as well. And I can see where that could come from now as well from what you just said.
Charles:
Okay, so here's another thing that he says in the same paragraph that I think is very valid and and valuable. Part of the reason that these strong males feel so confident and self assured is that they don't rely on other people for their validation. You don't seek validation from women so that when interaction with a woman doesn't go the way you want it to, you feel crumbled and destroyed inside you. that you took the right steps in a given scenario, even if the outcome wasn't the outcome you were hoping for, you can still feel good of, you know, hey, I saw that girl from across the coffee shop and decided that the regret of not saying something to her would be greater than the regret of being rejected. So I walked over, I introduced myself, she told me she wasn't interested, but I'm still glad I took the shot.
Dan:
Yeah, outcome independence and the positive outcome is a side effect, right? It's a cherry on
Charles:
Right.
Dan:
top of you doing what you feel was the right thing to do at that moment. That's the cake or that's your ice cream sundae and the cherry on top would be if the outcome works out for you and your favor rather than turning it upside down and making the cake the outcome. And now it's much versus that cherry on top. So if you can kind of keep that dessert analogy going. Sorry,
Charles:
Yeah, because
Dan:
sorry, no, you're
Charles:
no,
Dan:
on keto.
Charles:
no, it's good. It's fine. I'm yeah.
Dan:
I'm not sure about keto
Charles:
I mean,
Dan:
cake.
Charles:
two weeks,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
two weeks ago, it would have been, it would have been tougher to hear. Yeah, the outcome, the great thing about behaving in a way that signals outcome independence is it sends a message that says, no one bad result can break me. You know,
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
I'm not a person that no matter what I try, and if it doesn't go my way, that's, that's okay. I can, I can work with it. I'll be all right anyway.
Dan:
Yeah, and that's the funny thing is that's reality, right?
Charles:
Exactly,
Dan:
For the most part,
Charles:
yeah.
Dan:
that's reality. And what's happening is then you're spinning this idea in your head, you're building it up into something that you're not gonna be okay. And you are then acting and behaving in a way like that this is the end of the all and that you're not gonna be okay. But if you look back on it or from somebody from an external viewpoint looks at what's going on is yeah, okay, so she said, no. You're still breathing, right? You're still living. Right you're
Charles:
Bye.
Dan:
still you're still healthy. You're not sick right these these are not life-threatening Emergencies or things that are happening because you didn't get the result that you want
Charles:
Yes, I agree. Okay, the rest of this chapter hits a couple things that I don't find extremely important to cover, but I wanna just briefly sort of summarize. One
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
of the things it mentions is essentially the worst of a person you are, or worst of a man you are, as far as negative traits that are associated with like dark triad stuff, you're more likely to have more sexual partners in your life if you have those characteristics. Now, there's also a lot of other things that you're more likely to experience, such
Dan:
If you're interested in learning more about the
Charles:
as interactions with the legal system, financial problems. I mean, there's a lot of things that will happen as a result. So, you know, if your goal is to have as many sexual partners as possible with no regard for anything else in your life, and you will probably get laid with more different women than than otherwise
Dan:
and probably
Charles:
but
Dan:
end up being
Charles:
is Yeah,
Dan:
a
Charles:
well,
Dan:
member of Congress as well. So, you know.
Charles:
that's the thing is you know is the is the juice worth the squeeze I mean, I can think of some very public famous rich powerful men that I would not trade places with By by any means because I just knowing what I know about how people work. I know they're miserable camera ever sees, but I just know they have to be miserable and I don't want to be miserable. I want to be happy.
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
Okay. He also breaks down dominance, which is, you know, dominance is a, is a bit of a buzzword, just like alpha is, that we hear a lot and don't always understand exactly what it means. But he breaks dominance down into three categories, social, financial and physical, and then sort of ranks what impact they have on your attraction. most is physical dominance and bringing up the rear to the point where it doesn't even have a correlation to attraction is financial dominance. So if you
Dan:
Hmm
Charles:
just have a lot of money and are able to just throw your money around however you want to, that is not enough in and of itself to make you attractive, which is spending some time on Reddit and some of the dating advice subreddits. Basically every guy is completely preoccupied with the idea of, I'm not good looking enough That's the reason that I don't have the dating life that I want to have is because I'm not good-looking enough and I'm not rich enough. When you and I and the people that read this book and the people that integrate the valid stuff from this book,
Dan:
Mm-hmm.
Charles:
which is most of the stuff that when he cites a scientific study is pretty solid, we know that it's not other than the extremes, it's not about how good-looking or how rich you are. It's about your behavior and the choices that you make.
Dan:
Yeah, you know, and that's interesting that you, you know, when you break down those three types of dominance and which ones are, you know, most effective. So you said social was, was the most important part of dominance
Charles:
Yes.
Dan:
and then physical and then financial. And, you know, you can kind of think about this logically is which one of those three can a woman get on her own. And it's a lot easier to find, or it's easier to find somebody who has a lot of money, a man who has a lot of money, or she can get it on her own, the easiest, I think. When it comes
Charles:
Yeah.
Dan:
down then physical, yeah, a woman can work out and things like that, but overall, most men are providing that, in terms of that physical, that protective physical that typically comes from a man. That's not something she easily gets on her own. And then socially, these days, maybe she might be able to do that on her own a little bit easier, but I still think, we talk a little bit about that prestige that he talks about in the book and what that means. And that still comes traditionally, about men who kind of can engage with lots of people and have a lot of social connections, a lot of social support. That's another part of living, providing a safe and exciting and stimulating environment for a man and a woman.
Charles:
Right. And the, yeah, I think about it also in terms of the ability to acquire resources. Now,
Dan:
Exactly,
Charles:
obviously
Dan:
that's
Charles:
someone,
Dan:
where I was going with that. Yes, correct, yeah.
Charles:
someone with a lot of money can just buy the things that they need. But someone who is physically dominant and socially dominant, they will have no problem getting the resources they need as well either. And so, you know, maybe they won't have, you know, that a rich person would have. But if you're physically dominant and you can walk into a room and kind of take control of the room and you're the person that people pay attention to, you may not be financially rich, but you're not going to want for the things that you need to take care of yourself and your family either.
Dan:
Right, and you know, the old expression, it's not what you know, it's who you know. I mean, there's legitimacy
Charles:
Ja.
Dan:
to that, right? If you know people who are willing, who like you, who are willing to lend their energy and expertise and support and help you when you need it, that is very valuable. And you are one person, right? So yeah, you may be able to acquire some resources in terms of finances, but then if you are, if you are very popular with a lot of people, you have a lot of great friends and connections, expanded the amount of skills and talent and support, you've multiplied that by, you know, your social network, your social connection. So you've got, I think, a much greater, greater pool of resources to help you out should you need it.
Charles:
Yeah, I looked up the definition of prestige because he kind of equates social dominance and prestige to kind of go hand in hand. At least that's the impression I got when I read it. Prestige is the respect and admiration that someone or something gets for being successful or important. You know, I had a guy that I worked with almost 20 years ago at this small company where I was their network administrator and the company was absorbed by another company but he and I stayed in touch on Facebook and texting and stuff like that and He told me a few years ago He's out there working on the West Coast and he said how's business going? I said, oh, it's great You know, I've been I've been working for myself since 2007 and I can't really see it ever changing and He goes all right. Well, I'm out here with this company doing this role And if you ever change your mind decide you want to go back to getting a salary We'll make room for you on the team And that feels really good. Like the idea of, you know, we'll cut some other under performer loose or we'll create a new job role because I'd like to work with you again. That feels real good. And having that social capital where you've, you know, made yourself valuable to somebody and you've enriched their professional or personal life in a way that they're willing to say, hey, if there's something I can do, you know, if I can expend some work or do something for you down the road, I'm happy to do it. That feels good.
Dan:
Sure, that's a great compliment.
Charles:
And that also tells me that, yeah, if I hit hard times in my own business, then, you know, there's probably more people like that in my life than I know. Where if I put out the call and said, Hey, here's what I'm looking for. Here's what my skill set is currently. Is there anything we can do to work together? I think I would probably get some, some folks from my past who say, absolutely.
Dan:
Yeah, especially at that strip club.
Charles:
Yeah, but knowing that that's out there gives me the freedom to take some risks that I might not feel open to
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
taking otherwise. You know what I mean? All
Dan:
Yeah.
Charles:
right, let's see. I think that about covers it and we're about an hour and 20 minutes into this thing. So I think we can stop there and then our next episode is going to be kicking off part two of this book. So we've kind of covered the, not superficial, but what I would call the first impression skills that you need to make that first impression to appear and to be an attractive choice for women. And in part two, we're going to start getting to the nuts and bolts of, okay, what are the things you can do when you're interacting with people specifically in a relationship or the early stages of relationship that make you, that communicate that you're a good option?
Dan:
I like it. Yeah, create attraction is the
Charles:
Exactly.
Dan:
name of part two here. Yeah.
Charles:
Yeah, and we're also going to, fairly early on, we'll talk about approaching women, which is an interesting topic and one that, yeah, you and I have different levels of experience with and different preferences for, and we can get into that a little bit more.
Dan:
Yeah, sounds good.
Charles:
All right, cool. I will speak with you later, Dan, and have a good weekend.
Dan:
Thanks, man, you too. Talk to you later.