Is Your Phone Killing Your Chemistry?

In this episode, we discuss the common mistake (common to us, at least) of leaning too heavy on texting in a way that kills the chemistry of new relationships. We'll also touch on what to do if your new dating partner is not as responsive as you'd like, and what you should do when their interest isn't as strong as you wish it were.

And... here are some books Charles mentions:
Man Made: The Art of Male Grooming
Gentleman's Guide to Grooming and Style
Self-Care for Men: How to Look Good and Feel Great

Transcript

Dan:
Hey Charles, good morning, how are

Charles:
Good

Dan:
ya?

Charles:
morning, Dan. I'm doing okay. There's a lot going on with me personally that I don't wanna tell all the stories about yet, but I'm doing okay. I just bought a new toilet, so I got that going for me.

Dan:
Hey, what prompted you to buy a new toilet?

Charles:
Well, I'm glad you asked and embarrassed.

Dan:
Hehehe

Charles:
So my current toilet is seven years old and RV toilets are mostly made out of plastic. And so they can get discolored. And I don't just mean from poop, but just white plastic after it's exposed to the sun, cause I got a skylight in my restroom, stuff starts to turn yellow and starts to get grimy and just starts to get. old and nasty looking and brittle and stuff like that. And so this morning I was thinking to myself, you know what? I'm going to go to the store and I'm going to get some, you know, big rubber gauntlets that, you know, cover my arm up to my, you know, up to my elbow most and some steel wool and really go to work on this toilet and make it look better. And then I go on Amazon and like a brand new toilet's $175. So I'm like, how much is my time and my effort worth instead of trying to dress up this pig and put lipstick on it. I'm just gonna throw it in the dumpster and install a new toilet and if six or seven years later that one gets nasty then I'll just pick that one up and throw it away and put a new toilet in then. So screw it. That's where I'm at.

Dan:
I'm a little disappointed in you that you didn't donate it to Goodwill.

Charles:
I used RV toilet. I'll see if I can cram that into one of the donation boxes. I'll see if I can fit it into one of the donation

Dan:
They

Charles:
boxes

Dan:
take anything!

Charles:
in the Walmart parking lot. That's so gross. So yeah, I actually, I found it cheaper than Amazon over at Camping World, not the stadium, but one

Dan:
Hmm

Charles:
of the stores, the one over toward Tampa, between Lakeland and Tampa. They had it for even cheaper than Amazon, it's like $174. And I used my PayPal pay in for promo. And hopefully they'll email me after we're done with the podcast and say, hey, it's ready to pick up and I'll be able to go get it and do this today. before we meet up later tonight and I'll have a brand new toilet in my bathroom.

Dan:
fantastic. Nothing like

Charles:
So

Dan:
shitting on a new toilet.

Charles:
nothing like it, correct. And yeah, hopefully the installation's not too difficult. It doesn't look very complex. There's basically just a hole in the ground and a hose that brings fresh water into the bowl when you flush it. So I can't imagine it's gonna be too

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
hard to replace, but we'll see, yeah.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah.

Charles:
So I don't

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
expect

Dan:
don't get

Charles:
you

Dan:
rid

Charles:
have

Dan:
of

Charles:
anything.

Dan:
those gloves just yet.

Charles:
I'm sure you don't have anything that exciting going on, but why don't you tell me anyway?

Dan:
Uh, let's see. No, I don't. I did get back from a recent trip to Las Vegas to go see my half sisters. That was kind of cool. Um, and, uh, afterwards went to see my dad in New Jersey for a couple of weeks, helped take care of some stuff up there and really kind of refined how to work remotely. So that's one of the best things that came out of that trip was, uh, figuring out how to do the podcast remotely, how to do all of my my exchange tech work remotely. I used to do that a little bit more often, and I just fell into different habits where here I've got my four monitors and it's real easy to kind of move stuff around and you just get these habits of working a certain way. And then when you're down to one little laptop monitor, it definitely inhibits things and makes things a little bit more difficult. So sometimes even just getting started on, I read a lot of documentation, a lot of that just, my brain is just like, I don't wanna do this on this tiny little monitor. I need to pull in, I need to see all these screens, I need to see all this data and stuff like that. So I did find an application to, it's called Duet Display and allows my

Charles:
Hmm.

Dan:
iPad to act as a second monitor

Charles:
Oh, nice.

Dan:
to my Windows laptop. So that... was that gave me enough screen, you know, geography, you know, to basically able to do what I needed to do. So I feel a bit more confident being able to work a little, you know, work remotely and be able to take maybe some, some longer vacations where I can, you know, work a little bit as well. So, so that's, that's what's been going on with me.

Charles:
Cool, that sounds good. I recently bought an iPad Mini to see if I could use it as

Dan:
Mmm

Charles:
my, basically as my laptop replacement. And I haven't decided yet if it's going to be possible for that, but I have decided that it is a really cool additional device to have where that size and that functionality, I think I can definitely find a space for that in my, both working on the podcast and my day job. So I think I'm going to keep it and I think I'm going to be able to bring some value out of it even if I don't make it my full laptop replacement because the keyboard that I got for is very small. It's usable. But I'm just I mean, I like to joke to tell people that well, it's not really a joke. It's mostly true. The only class I paid attention to in high school was typing. And then

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
after basically they had a typing two and a typing three course, which were. really just teaching you how to use Microsoft works, which is the free version or cheap version of Microsoft office before it was office. And really in all four years of high school, the only classes I gave a damn about were typing and business computer applications, one and business computer applications too. And so I am a fast typist. I used to be right around 100 words a minute when I was when I was, you know, really in the mix. And I can't get anywhere near that kind of performance on that little tiny keyboard. Um,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I'm still okay on it, but, uh, anyway, with what you said about the second screen, I think, you know, that, uh, iPad mini it's small, but, uh, I could definitely see some potential just sitting next to my iMac, which is what I use when we record the podcast and having it, even if I just have it over there with Outlook open or you know, just something, you know, some, some application that I want to be aware of, you know, even a web browser with Gmail or something like that. So that as stuff comes in, I can see it. Um, I'm definitely gonna, and I'm sure that there's probably a bajillion apps. If you've got a Mac and you've got an iPad to make those two talk together as far as the second monitor, I'm sure there the sky's the limit. So I'm definitely going to check that out. I'm glad you shared that.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, it works really well. Um, it automatically connects after it goes to sleep and it comes

Charles:
Nice.

Dan:
up back up on the, on the iPad automatically. So it's very smooth. Um, and it's been, it has been very reliable and I've been impressed with it so far. So, and it's, it's not crazy expensive. So, um, yeah, yeah. Um, it's, uh, it's funny you should bring up typing and, uh, my, my buddy Mike that we talked to the other day for some, some video help, uh, who does listen to the podcast by the way. So, Thanks Mike for helping us out with that. Um, he's going to remember this as well. So in junior was it, you don't know it was high school. Our first, I think, uh, as freshmen, we had a. Mandatory typing class that we had to take. And this woman was, I mean, I don't want to say a Nazi, but let's just say she, she was a little strict. Okay.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
Let's say, and so like she would yell at you if she caught you looking at the keyboard, you know, so you needed to look at the the document you were typing. But thankfully, I am so grateful that she was that strict because now I don't have a problem typing at all. I'm pretty quick with it. And I see some of these people with the two fingers still doing the

Charles:
Oh,

Dan:
keyboard and

Charles:
drives

Dan:
stuff.

Charles:
me

Dan:
And

Charles:
crazy.

Dan:
I feel so bad for them because it's

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
just like,

Charles:
me

Dan:
oh

Charles:
too.

Dan:
my gosh, that's gonna really slow you down.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
So it turns out that she is one of three triplets. that all teach, that all taught, this has been a couple years ago now, I guess,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
since I was in high school,

Charles:
Couple.

Dan:
but all taught typing.

Charles:
Interesting.

Dan:
And it was very interesting, yes. Her name, Mike will probably remember because she was a scary woman,

Charles:
Now,

Dan:
but I can't remember

Charles:
what kind of computers

Dan:
her name.

Charles:
was your typing class on? Do you remember?

Dan:
They were like probably, they might've been 386s.

Charles:
Okay,

Dan:
They may

Charles:
I think

Dan:
have

Charles:
that's

Dan:
been.

Charles:
yeah, we had some a room full of Tandy computers and I think they were probably 386 is and you know, they had those mechanical keyboards back when mechanical was the only kind where you know, every

Dan:
Mm-hmm

Charles:
time you hit a key, it clicked. And it's funny, I like to tell people I graduated high school. Well, I dropped out of high school. But if I didn't drop out of high school and take my GED before my peers actually graduated. Um, I would have graduated in 96 and the computer science classes that we had at my high school in 96, we're still using TRS eighties as the, uh,

Dan:
Oh my gosh.

Charles:
or trash eighties as we, as we like to call them. And I mean, that is a technology that was at least 15 years old at the time. And that's what we were learning to, to program in basic on was these.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
TRS eighties. And

Dan:
Wow.

Charles:
yeah, the, the typing class got the way better computers out of the, I think it was because the guy who taught multiple levels of math and computer science, those, that was the only hardware he knew how to use. So they couldn't, they couldn't upgrade to something else because that's all he knew how to use.

Dan:
Oh my gosh. Yeah, we had those dot matrix printers too that would take

Charles:
Oh yeah.

Dan:
12 years. And yeah.

Charles:
Yep, yep. Yeah, I remember that. And the good thing was a lot of the formulas and stuff that we learned in Microsoft Works spreadsheet app still

Dan:
Uh-huh.

Charles:
to this day work in Excel. I mean,

Dan:
Oh that's nuts.

Charles:
the basic formulas haven't changed

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
much. So they all still kind of, spreadsheets are still spreadsheets. But anyway, yeah, I type fast. I don't type fast on my little iPad mini keyboard, but I still like that it has a keyboard that I can use. And... It's it's good. Oh, a couple of things I wanted to share with you. I bought a few books,

Dan:
Hmm

Charles:
uh, off of eBay that I have not yet read and I paid for the cheapest shipping, free shipping possible and they took a while to get here, but now I've got them. I wanted to share them with you. I haven't read them yet, so I can't endorse them or tell people to buy them. Uh, the first one is manmade the art of male grooming by Dan Jones

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
and, uh, it's pretty good. It's got, uh, got a lot of nice pictures and talks about, um, you know, your skin and your body and your face and all that

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
stuff. So I'm looking forward to getting into that one and it's, it's small. So I will probably be able to pack it when I go on a trip or something. I also got, uh, let's see. I can't see this, the target 20% off sticker, which again, I bought it used off eBay, so it covers up the author's name. So give me a second to look up who the author is. Okay. Garrett months has written self care for men, how to look and feel great.

Dan:
Interesting. Okay. I'm going to go ahead

Charles:
And

Dan:
and do a little

Charles:
so,

Dan:
bit of a quick review of the

Charles:
um, also kind of a compact book. Uh, let me, let me go through this one and read some of the, uh, chapter titles to you. It looks, it looks pretty one. Part one is mind. Part two is wellness. Part three is body. Part four face part five hair part six spirit and part seven space.

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
So yeah, I'm looking forward to that one. And the last one, which this is a book I've had, I've owned this book before and now I own it again. And it is mostly good for, it's like a coffee table book called The Gentleman's Guide to Grooming and Style by Bernard Retzel. And man, it will make you want some very expensive clothes.

Dan:
I bet,

Charles:
There

Dan:
I bet.

Charles:
is some

Dan:
Just from

Charles:
real,

Dan:
the cover, that's

Charles:
oh yeah.

Dan:
the cover just screams expensive clothes. Yeah,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
for sure.

Charles:
I like this guy whose little weekend bag, his little Louis Vuitton weekend bag is sitting there in the corner next to him. And yeah, I really, this is a good book to read, but yeah, it will definitely make you want to spend a lot of money on clothes. The only brand in here that I've become a regular consumer on that I can kind of afford is Allen Edmonds for dress shoes, because, you

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
know, now we have an Allen Edmonds store over at the Malt Millenia. And their shoes generally run, I'd say 250 to 450 a pair. But when you buy a pair of their shoes, they will literally last you a lifetime because they have re-soling services where you can send them off to have them resold and they'll refinish the leather. And yeah, you buy,

Dan:
have you

Charles:
go

Dan:
had

Charles:
ahead.

Dan:
to do any of that yet?

Charles:
I've got a pair that needs to have it done. The first pair of their shoes I bought were. Italian calfskin horse bit loafer. So they're very much a Gucci style moccasin and the soles are ready to have some work done on them. I just haven't sent them off yet. Right now they're just kind of sitting in my closet with a pair of shoe trees in them and I'm just not wearing them very often. But I need to send them off and it's about a hundred bucks to get them, well, that's what it was last time I checked. It could be more expensive than that now. But they really, I mean, they, they send them back and they're almost like a brand new pair of shoes.

Dan:
Did you feel like you wore them enough to justify?

Charles:
Oh yeah, I wore them

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
constantly. Yeah, yeah,

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
for

Dan:
good.

Charles:
sure.

Dan:
Good,

Charles:
And

Dan:
good, good. Okay.

Charles:
the uppers still look amazing on them, but the soles, they're just leather soles, and so they do wear out. Now, they do offer other sole choices besides leather. Like you can get rubber soles, and you can get a mix of leather and rubber. And I imagine if you opted for those, you could probably go even longer without having to send the shoes in. But these shoes I got. That pair that needs the work done are probably 16 years old. So they, I got them a long time ago and they, they just, you know, within the last couple of years have needed the work done that I just haven't bothered to send them in yet, but, uh, yeah, they're, they're good, they're good quality. And, and I think this book even like of the three tiers of men's shoes that are worth buying, Alan Edmonds is probably in the second or third tier as far as the, uh,

Dan:
Wow.

Charles:
the quality and the cost.

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
interesting.

Charles:
Yeah, so there's another brand called Churches that we don't have any stores in Orlando. So I'm hesitant to spend a lot of money on a pair of shoes if I can't see what the store looks like and see what the salespeople sound like and stuff like that. But I've always wanted a pair of Churches, but until I live in a place where I can go to one of the stores, I'm not going to spend the money on them. They're even more expensive. Okay. So those

Dan:
My

Charles:
are

Dan:
pee.

Charles:
some cool books that I'm looking forward to getting into at some point. Um, but yeah, so clearly I've got a lot going on. I got new toilets. I got new books. Hell's hell's a poppin' as they say.

Dan:
not heard this. What? Hell's a poppin?

Charles:
Hell's a poppin'. That's a, yeah, that's a colloquialism I heard a few years ago on a radio show that basically means there's a lot going on. Hell's a poppin'.

Dan:
Okay, all right.

Charles:
I like using old timey colloquial phrases. Okay, let's talk about our book. We're still in the same book, and like we talked about before we started recording, it's long and these chapters are short, and we spend a lot of time talking on each topic. And I think there's good stuff in here that people hopefully are enjoying.

Dan:
Hehehehehehe

Charles:
I'm ready for a new book, but I enjoy the conversations we have. So.

Dan:
Me too.

Charles:
Um, let's talk about, um, all the stuff you and I do wrong when it comes to texting and calling women. Hold on. I'm going to turn my air conditioner down just a little bit. I'm a little cold.

Dan:
Sounds good.

Charles:
There we go. All right, so here's a deal. Me and you spend too much time talking to girls, whether we're, you know, trying to meet somebody new that we're dating or, uh, an existing relationship with a girlfriend. Um, we spend too much time using the phone and using text messages to communicate things other than just logistics of when we're going to spend time together next. Right.

Dan:
Mm-hmm, correct.

Charles:
Um... There is a real pseudo empty calorie version of intimacy that you can experience with a girl when you spend a lot of time texting that feels good to us because it feels like connection, it feels like intimacy, it feels like a way to increase our mutual attraction. But ultimately, I think a day or two later, it just, it can feel like Why did I waste all that time? And I think it can feel that way for her and for you. Like, why, why did I, you know, why did I stay up all night texting with this girl and, you know, talking about all these important, deeply personal topics. And now, you know, when we meet for coffee or we go on a date, what's there going to be, you know, we, it's hard to roll back to just talking about the weather or did you like that new movie? If you spend a lot of time talking about your hopes and your dreams and your goals and you know, what you're working on and what you're passionate about. You do all that over text and then you get together in person and everything feels shallow in comparison to that. Right. And

Dan:
Oh, I am absolutely guilty of that

Charles:
yeah, me too.

Dan:
100% multiple times.

Charles:
Yeah. And like, yeah, like, I mean, yeah, every, every time you meet a new girl that you're excited about, you do it. You tell me about it.

Dan:
Yeah, you know, and I think part of the problem to doing that, yeah, is right, is you're removing any type of mystery, you're moving any type of, you know, emotional tension. There's no cliffhanger, right? There's no what's next. What else is there? Right? And there's no space or environment. to create that longing, which is another way of saying attraction, right? When we're watching some sort of series, more binging on some sort of Netflix reality show, like The Ultimatum or Married at First Sight, whatever, whatever your cup of tea is, sometimes it's the preview of the next episode that gets you excited for

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
the next episode.

Charles:
Oh yeah.

Dan:
And they, a lot of times, will purposely put clips together one after the other to make it seem like something is happening. And then when you actually watch the episode, you're like, oh, that was nothing.

Charles:
Yes,

Dan:
You know, you're like,

Charles:
absolutely.

Dan:
oh, those mother effers just totally roped me in. But you still keep coming back for more.

Charles:
Yeah, I'm actually watching a documentary right now. I'm a few episodes in, I had it on while I was cleaning my place up yesterday. Shiny Happy People, have you heard of it?

Dan:
I've heard of it. What's

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
that

Charles:
it's

Dan:
about?

Charles:
a doc. It's a documentary about the Duggar family from 19 kids and counting.

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
And all the all the weird dark shit that was that is kind of going on in that family that the thing, the thing that blows my mind and some of the people on the show said this to like. How could the dad in particular in that family know all of the stuff that's going on in the background with his oldest son, you know. molesting his sisters and just, oh yeah, there was crazy stuff going on. It's like, how could you know that had already happened and still invite a camera crew into your house and think like, oh, well none of that stuff's gonna get out. No, it's not gonna become known. It's not gonna become an issue like the hubris and the, yeah, it just blows my mind that knowing you've got those skeletons in your closet and you're inviting someone into your house and you're like, hey, take a tour of all the closets and let's make us famous. And it's nuts. And some of the, yeah,

Dan:
Wow.

Charles:
some of the stuff, some of their religious ideas that motivated some of their behaviors, I mean, they are well outside of the mainstream of modern evangelical Christianity, some of the stuff they believe, and it's kooky. And the way that they controlled or tried to control this image that they were putting out there, knowing all the while that there was stuff under the surface that did not match up. It's it feels like a form of psychopathy. It's crazy, but very compelling. And when they talk about how the camera crews and the producers would manipulate real life to look like something that would sell advertising and make for compelling episodes.

Dan:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Charles:
And and, yeah, that's the point. That's what we. I think when we get into this. text only or voice only communication paradigm, it's hard not to try to manipulate and massage the interactions in a way where we come across in our best but least authentic light to the person that we're talking to, on both sides.

Dan:
Yeah, and I think one of the reasons why this is such an issue for people is because the way our brains work and the way that our phones work. And I was just kind of thinking about this where we're getting a little dopamine hit when we see those three little dots come up on our phone, like, oh, they're writing back, right? And it's kind of get excited. And you get addicted to that. It's the same thing with social media. You get kind of addicted to people. commenting or liking or any type of interaction, our brain has changes that or takes that and basically creates some sort of dopamine hit. And that hormone makes us want to do it again and repeat

Charles:
Mm-hmm.

Dan:
that behavior. And it's kind of a craving hormone. And so I believe when we start the more interactions that we have, the more addicted we really have. become and especially if these are messages, it's not just getting a message and getting that response. So I think that's one dopamine hit, but then depending on what's being said, are they

Charles:
Mm-hmm.

Dan:
flirting? You know, where's it? And then it's kind of a mystery. Are they going to be like, are they going to start to get a little bit, you know, sexy? Are they going to, is it going to be, you know, like a sexting

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
thing? Is it, where's it going? You know,

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
is it a joke? And then now we've got all the different types of, you know, emojis and, you know, little, you know, gifts and everything else that we can send to add humor or sexiness or additional interactions and dimensions to that conversation. And yeah, so I can see how it's a slippery slope. And

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
that's how

Charles:
and.

Dan:
I've gotten. And that's, I'm guilty of that. I'm absolutely

Charles:
And,

Dan:
guilty of that.

Charles:
and another thing, another trap of it that we don't think about as often is, um, man, it is a super easy tool for a woman to use, to test a man and, and unsettle a man

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
and see how he reacts to that. And, you know, even just saying that, I think there's a negative connotation there where, you know, a lot of guys are resentful that women will test them. And. and try to unsettle them and try to shake them and see what happens. And it's like, guys, no, that that's the way it's supposed to work. That that's the way that mating between men and women is supposed to work. Women are supposed to. Evaluate men and test men and prevent themselves from getting in a situation where they reproduce with the wrong guy who doesn't have the ability to provide for them and protect their kids, and I know that it can be stressful to think about that happening, but. It's not a right thing or a wrong thing that women do. It's something they have to do and something that we need them to do in order to keep the human experiment going. And the best thing to do is to understand it and embrace it and get comfortable with it and realize that, look, if you stayed up all night talking to a girl on text and the next morning you send her a good morning and she doesn't respond immediately, she waits a few hours. that whether she's doing it on purpose or whether she's doing it subconsciously, it's something she needs to do and she should do to make sure that you're not over invested. You're not clinging. You're not going to be somebody who gets too emotional and can't be emotional in a bad way. I mean, not there's nothing wrong with emotions, but somebody who gets rocked and starts behaving in an undesirable and attractive way. I mean, that that's, that's how it's supposed to work. And, and these little devices that we carry around with us are a great, tool for women to have to say, okay, I need to check in with this guy and make sure that he's not going to get weird or get flaky or get clingy. And so I will either send something that will potentially activate him or just not send anything that will potentially activate him and see what happens. See how he handles it. And

Dan:
Well said. Yeah.

Charles:
yeah, and it's, again, it's easy to say, well, that's not fair. She's playing games with me. It's like, no, you're playing games with her to what you're trying to. reveal yourself and engage in these long conversations. You're doing something to get the result that you want when you are spending all this time texting with her and her replying in a way or choosing not to reply, it's the other steps in the same dance. And you need to kind of just acknowledge that and be comfortable with it. And honestly, have enough going on. in your life and in your romantic life and in your dating pursuits that you don't let stuff like that shake you and freak you out and turn you into a guy who's sending six unreplied to messages in hopes that she'll respond to you. And yeah, I don't know what else to say except, you know, it's... The best way to avoid that is not make your phone such a tool that you rely on and you won't give her so much power to impact your state of mind if you haven't set that phone up to be this security blanket when it comes to your relationship with her.

Dan:
Oh, for sure. Yeah. And like you said, the easiest way to do that is to have a lot of other things going on in your life so that you don't even have time to spend on the phone. You know, you're busy out living life, doing things and interacting with people in real life in person. And so that way you don't even have the time to even sit there and twiddle your thumbs go on board. So I'm just gonna pick up my phone and go through that.

Charles:
Yeah. And really the, I mean, the, the antidote is, is really just a, a form of sort of perpetual all day mindfulness. When, when you're, when you're at work, focus on your career. When you're at the gym, focus on getting in shape.

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
And when you're, you know, watching your favorite show, watch your favorite show and, and don't spend all your time, you know, obsessing over whether she, you know, is she on, is she online on Facebook right now? Is she on Instagram right now? Are those three dots about to appear where I can feel like she's about to send me a message? I mean, just, you know, engage in the thing that you're doing and give it all your attention. And, and also, you know, don't, don't treat this relationship as if it's your only source of joy or contentment or, or being fulfilled, whether it's brand new, somebody you just met that you're super excited about, or whether it's, you know, your partner of multiple years, just, yeah, you gotta, you gotta attack. all these areas of your life with this passion and this interest so that when any one of them gets out of whack or makes you uncomfortable, you don't fly off the rails and start acting weird.

Dan:
Yeah. And the best way to do that is to do some sort of mindfulness practice on the regular basis so that you can be present so that you can feel urges and allow them to pass, um, not resist them, but allow them to be there and feel uncomfortable and then still remain what you're, you know, focused on what you're doing and just kind of get used to getting those waves of uncomfortable feelings. And it's similar to when you're trying to eat a little bit better and eliminate snacking. And

Charles:
Mm-hmm.

Dan:
so you're going to have, you know, waves of hunger might come, but if you're truly hungry, the waves will keep coming after, you know, five minutes or so. But if it's just, you know, maybe you're a little thirsty and you're confusing that for hunger. If you, you know, you, you just, you're bored or you're, you know, uh, maybe you're tired or you're emotionally exhausted. You may have some similar waves coming, you know, across. And so you just learn to feel it. And if it passes, it'll pass in like a minute or two. And if it passes, then you don't eat. If it keeps coming after about five minutes, then have something to eat at that point, right? But add like a full meal. But same thing, right? If you're feeling that urge to pick up the phone, and again, we're trained. We have to untrain ourselves to respond to the phone that interrupts us while we're doing something. And so a lot of times, Uh, you know, the best thing Apple did was put on the, you know, the, you know, the do not disturb function

Charles:
Pffft

Dan:
and you know, the, being able to customize, you know, the screen so you don't get notifications and you don't get alerts

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
and you know, only certain people can contact you like your emergency contacts, things like that. I use that all the time. Uh, and sometimes even that's not enough. And sometimes I got to put the phone out of the office or I turn it upside down. So

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
the screen isn't up and it's a, it's a little hack, but. looking at the screen, just the view of the screen sometimes can be enticing enough for me to pick up the phone, even when there's nothing on it, if it's just

Charles:
Oh

Dan:
black.

Charles:
for sure,

Dan:
So,

Charles:
yeah

Dan:
you know,

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
so, you know, turning it over face down that that's, that's helpful. I'll take every little bit of help I can get.

Charles:
Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, they, they know what they're doing with these devices. And, you know, there's a lot of good and a lot of bad that can come from our dependence on them. Uh, maybe not. I don't know if we use the word dependence and there's probably not a lot of good. I mean, they are certainly convenient and productivity, you know, in both your, your personal passions and, and your career, you know, your productivity is definitely influenced in a positive way by having. access to all this communication and all this information, but it can also, it can also be, um, you can make life rough on yourself by,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
by just using it the way that the tech companies want you to use it.

Dan:
Yeah, I mean, it's a tool just like anything else.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
And there's a number of ways that it can be used. And there is a lot of training that you need to do to be able to use it the most effectively, the most effective way for you. And that takes some time and getting out of your comfort zone to learn that and feel that and untrain yourself from what, by just picking up the phone, it was kind of like the wild west free for all. And

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
we got addicted to... You know, the badges and the dings and the vibrations and the pop-ups and everything else the thing does.

Charles:
No, yeah, absolutely. And it's a weird society-wide experiment that none of us opted into, but we're all participating in. And

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
yeah, we'll see where it goes. Okay, so I like that he starts off this section of the book, this chapter, with some very practical advice, which is this. You meet somebody new, you get her phone number. Here's exactly. what the first text you should send her should be. Hey, it was nice to meet you. Not, hey, it was nice to meet you, you're an amazing woman. Not, hey, it was nice to meet you, let's grab a drink after work. Just, hey, it was nice to meet you. And then the way she responds to that will tell you how interested she is in ever seeing or talking to you again. And if she doesn't respond to, hey, it was nice to meet you, then you die of old age before you send her another message.

Dan:
Yes. Yeah.

Charles:
Okay.

Dan:
100%.

Charles:
Yeah, the mistake a lot of guys make, and I would say, I mean, one of the things he says in here that I do disagree with is 95% of men get a woman's contact details and immediately ask the woman out on a date. In my experience and in my circle of guys, no, the opposite is true. Guys will meet a girl, get her contact information, talk to her forever, and never or barely ever get around to asking for a date. So. It shouldn't be your first message to say, Hey, let's get, let's, let's have a date. And it shouldn't be your 1 millionth message. It should be somewhere on the early side of that on the very early side. I would typically say within five to 10 messages, you should suggest the idea of getting together, but it shouldn't be the first message and you shouldn't wait for her to ask you out or you shouldn't wait for, you know, for her to be your best friend before you ask her out. It should be somewhere in between.

Dan:
Yeah, I agree.

Charles:
And keep your messages short too. Long messages make you look not strong and confident. Whatever the opposite of that is, is what long blocks of text make you look like. It makes you look like somebody who's plenty of time and plenty of interest in somebody that you just met. When you just meet somebody, even if you have a great time hanging out with them, the proper level of investment is, hey, it was nice to meet you, not, hey, it was nice to meet you. Here's my life story.

Dan:
Right. Yeah, they need to earn that. You know, not everybody

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
just gets that.

Charles:
Exactly. Yeah, that's the way it should be for sure. Let's see. The other thing that is clear that you and I have talked about a lot is that when a woman is interested in you, she will be in touch and she will work as hard or harder than you to pursue future interactions.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
And we've talked about this plenty of times. If a woman is busy with work or with a family situation or whatever. If she's interested in you, she will still find time to talk to you and see you. Um, and, and how do I know that? Because if I'm interested in a woman and I'm busy with work or busy with family, I will still find time to talk to or see her. And so this, this isn't some game where, you know, it's men sitting around saying we have to make these women jump through hoops. It's not, we, what we have to expect is for people who are as interested in us to act as interested in us as we are in them. And, and there should be. a parody between how much you're willing to invest to see her to hang out with her to talk to her and how much she's willing to do that for you. Because if there's not parody, if she's chasing you down all the time, then that should communicate to her that you're not as interested in her as she is in you and vice versa. If you're chasing her down all the time to try to hang out with her, then she's not as interested in you as you are in her.

Dan:
Yeah, it's not rocket science. It's not any different than any other relationship that you've got with somebody like a friend or a family member, where if you, you know, you cause because you care about them or they care about you, they're going to be fairly responsive and it's not going to be, you don't need to like pester them over and over again to get a response. And I'll tell you what, if, you know, if any of my, it's happened with a couple of friends where, you know, where that is the case where they don't respond and all of a sudden they're not friends anymore, right? Because, because it's just, that's, that's they weren't interested, they weren't putting any kind of effort in. And so, all right, well then now you go your separate ways. And it's the same thing when you want something, you, you're not going to just go, Oh, I was waiting for, you know, for you to respond. Like, no, you're going to, you're going to make some sort of minimal effort. And so of course, you know, the woman's going to do the same.

Charles:
Yeah, I, even if I'm very busy with the work situation, if there's someone I wanna see and someone I wanna spend time with, you know, I will suggest, okay, this week's gonna be crazy, but you know, let's get together after dinner, or let's get together for breakfast, or I'll try to figure out a way to make it happen where her and I can spend some time with each other. And if you're the only one doing that and she's not suggesting similar kinds of arrangements to see you, And that means that the interest level is not the same. And so what, what can

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
you do? There's, there's really only one thing you can do in that situation, which is to back off. And when you back off either. Show back off too. And you guys just won't talk anymore or you're backing off will inspire her to do a little bit of chasing on her end. And so you'll, you know, she, she will inconvenience herself a little to spend time with you. And, and. Both of those are a win because both of those tell you more about where you stand with this person than you currently know. And that's, that's really what it should all be. You know, I'm, it reminds me, I'm going through another book right now called permission to feel, which is all about, you know, emotional intelligence and being able to recognize your own feelings and, and be able to regulate your emotions. And this guy, he uses so much of the same language that BJ Fogg uses in tiny habits where

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
It's like instead don't find yourself being an emotion judge, find yourself being an emotion scientist. And so, you know, approach, approach things from the perspective of, you know, not I'm feeling this way and that's not okay. Instead I'm feeling this way. I wonder what that means. I wonder where that's coming from and just, you know, trying to take a step back and, and look at things as someone who's just in it to gather more information. not someone who's in it to make yourself, through white knuckling and grit in your teeth, I'm gonna make myself the kind of person I wanna be. No, it's just take a step back from yourself and watch how things are affecting you and how it's making you feel. And then once you do that, then you can make better decisions instead of judging everything and criticizing everything.

Dan:
Yeah, and I think the problem with that approach is with, you know, judging and criticizing is it's based on, you know, information that you're making assumptions about. It's, you don't have a full complete picture. Whereas if you take that kind of experimental scientist mindset, you are focusing on gathering information and hopefully doing it with, without any judgment or as minimal judgment as possible to basically make a better decision. And You know, I'm usually of the opinion of in any situation is the more information you have, the better decision you can make. As long as long as it's a cause paralysis from analysis, which I'm absolutely guilty of as well.

Charles:
Yeah, that's a separate problem, but

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
a valid one. Yeah, so, and it's not, you know, we're not suggesting being manipulative and running experiments on other conscious human beings. That's not what we're saying. But if you get a vibe from somebody like, hmm, I feel like her interest level may be going down or may be lower than mine. You know, maybe I should take, because if a girl's interest level in you is decreasing or is just, you know, from the get-go, not as high as your interest level in her, then the adult and considerate thing to do for both her and yourself is to take a step back and say, all right, I'm going to back off a little bit and see what happens. That's not a manipulative thing to do. That's a respectful thing to do. When somebody says with their actions or their words, hey, I'm feeling a little crowded here. I'm feeling a little smothered. And again, very often we don't actually say those words to people. We show that to people with our actions.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
then when you detect that's what's going on, then you need to say, okay, well then the appropriate thing and the kind thing for me to do is take a step back and see what happens.

Dan:
Yeah, you're honoring their request.

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
Even though

Charles:
Even

Dan:
if

Charles:
if

Dan:
it

Charles:
it's

Dan:
wasn't, even if it wasn't

Charles:
yes,

Dan:
verbal.

Charles:
or even conscious, even, you

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
know, if

Dan:
Yep.

Charles:
they're communicating that to you with their actions and, and they may not even know this was going on, but yes, it is, it is honoring their request to say, okay, I'm going to back off a little bit. I'm going to give you some time and space and, and then we'll see what happens. The two of us can figure out what that means and what the next step is based on me acknowledging your need, even if it's an unspoken one and backing off a little bit. So Again, as guys though, at least, you know, knowing myself as well as I do and knowing you as well as I do. I don't know, are there guys where doing that is just natural or is this something that we all have to learn?

Dan:
Oh, I think we all have to learn that. I feel like you'd learn it at some point. Some people are lucky enough to learn it earlier than later, but we

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
all have to learn that, right? And that's to me, that's being, that's a part of a communication skill. It's learning to read information coming from another human being in some form or another, whether it's verbal or physical or whatever that might be, but it's also learning the proper response. So that's being a productive or a. good member of society, I feel when you can respond in the right way, when you don't, you basically show that you don't have a lot of consciousness or social awareness, I should say,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
right? If you then are missing the message, and you are continuing kind of, you're in your own world, that's what it's going to kind of come across as, if you are continuing to pursue someone who's pulling away.

Charles:
Right,

Dan:
And you're

Charles:
because the...

Dan:
just not getting it.

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
and the message

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you're sending is, it's more important for me to soothe myself than it is to pay attention

Dan:
Yes.

Charles:
to what you need.

Dan:
Right. Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah. I

Charles:
And

Dan:
correct. Correct.

Charles:
if you're a man whose primary function is to, or your go-to, your primary reaction is, I need to soothe my emotions in this situation, not handle the thing in the way that it needs to be handled, but rather I need to do whatever behavior in the short term will soothe me and make me feel better. You're not somebody, you're not a high value mate that can be counted on in the future. If, if when, when adversity comes, your first thing is I need to make myself feel better by any means possible. You're, you're not the kind of person that somebody is going to look at as a, as a serious contender for starting a family with or, and, and really, you know, remember evolutionarily when it comes to dating or relationships or whatever, the lens you're going to be judged in is, are you a suitable mate for reproducing with?

Dan:
Yeah. And can I, and yeah, right. And you know, women have, you know, a lot of emotions that they deal with. And the last thing they want to have to do is deal with yours as well. Right.

Charles:
Yes, and there is something to be said for having a partner that you can co-regulate with and you guys can work through emotions and feel better. But yeah, the idea that you're a child in a man's body who's powerful enough to kill her with your bare hands, but you also need to be coddled and comforted. Yeah, that is not what any woman I know is looking for.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
It's something. I mean, in an established relationship, there is a way that you, you set up interactions where you guys can help regulate each other's difficult emotions. But again, a, an overgrown man child who's given to doing whatever he has to do in the moment to make himself feel better is, is not what any woman is looking for as far as, as far as I've met. Um,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
so in that sort of in that area, remember this, especially early in a relationship, if you message a woman and you don't get a response from her, it means one thing, she's not interested right now in going any deeper with you, and it really doesn't matter beyond that. There's no information you need beyond that

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
to know,

Dan:
hold up,

Charles:
okay.

Dan:
hold up. You just used a term where you could add a little confusion to people here because you said right now. And when I hear that, I'm thinking, oh, you mean there's still one in a million chance. Oh, you mean there's still a chance? Right, like, so I think I'll let you finish your sentence, but I want you to get into that, like a little bit more about the right now statement.

Charles:
Okay, the right now, no, we'll jump into that right now. She has decided that it is not worth it to respond to you. And so as a man, what your job is to do is not be affected by that in a negative way, not act out, not word vomit about how inappropriate it is for her not to answer you or who does she think she is, or any of the weird things that guys have definitely done. I can say, Those aren't things that I do or have ever done. Um, but you know, I'm only a step away from doing that on a bad day. It's just nothing

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
that I've done with so far. Um, but your, your job is when you don't hear back from a girl, it, again, it means that she's not ready right now to, to pursue anything deeper with you. And the only time that changes. for the positive is by you leaving her alone and letting her decide that it's time to change that, the timing of getting deeper with you. So there's nothing you can do to an unresponsive woman to make her responsive, except leave her alone,

Dan:
So,

Charles:
and then she will

Dan:
okay.

Charles:
possibly at some point down the road be like, oh, that time he messaged me and I didn't respond to him, he didn't freak out, he didn't get weird, so maybe he's the kind of guy that a month or a year down the road I can say, hey, how's it going? And he's not gonna... freak out at me.

Dan:
Okay, I just want to make sure that we're clear here. So when you see right now, the proper response is not to check in with her

Charles:
Nope,

Dan:
a

Charles:
definitely

Dan:
month later.

Charles:
not. Absolutely

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
not.

Dan:
okay, okay.

Charles:
No,

Dan:
Just

Charles:
again,

Dan:
making sure.

Charles:
the die of old age before you double text still stands. But be aware that if you don't get thirsty, if you don't get needy, if you don't get clingy, if you don't get weird when she doesn't respond to your first message, there's always a chance that something's gonna happen down the road where she thinks, oh yeah, that guy I met that time who sent me one message and then left me alone, that seemed like a pretty cool guy. Maybe... Maybe I should check in with him and see, you know, what he's up to. Is he still single? Is he still living in this area where if you double, triple, quadruple, text her for not responding to you when you thought she should, then the chances of that interaction, that positive interaction happening down the road,

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
go down to almost

Dan:
yeah,

Charles:
zero.

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
So yes, and again, the important thing to remember is when a woman does not respond to you and communicates to you that she's not interested, it's not your job to put on your stupid little hat and get out your magnifying glass and turn into Sherlock Holmes to figure out why she didn't message you. It doesn't matter. Maybe she's with somebody. Maybe she's busy. Maybe her AA sponsor told her she shouldn't get into a relationship right now. Whatever the reason is, it's none of your business and it doesn't concern you. Until she texts you back and say, Hey, and she says, Hey, how's it going?

Dan:
Yeah, and more often than not, you're never going to find out. It's going to be a complete waste of time for you to even go down that.

Charles:
Yes, because either she might not tell you the truth. Maybe she doesn't know that what the truth is Maybe it doesn't matter and yes, you're gonna be curious. We all are but Yeah, just leave her alone and let her live her life And if she decides that there's a spot for you in it down the road Maybe she'll reach out to you and you guys can talk at that point

Dan:
Right. It's never going to change the end result. If anything is going to make it worse, if you go down that path and you start digging around and you interact with her or she finds out you aren't digging around, trying to figure out what happened, that does not look good for you.

Charles:
Yeah, I mean, think about it in terms of, you know, if you're doing some sort of carpentry or working on something in your house and you're trying to nail something and you miss with the hammer and you put a dent in a piece of wood or a dent in a piece of metal, it's like getting out the hammer and I'm gonna just keep hitting this until it goes back perfectly straight to the way that it was. It never happens. So there's some things that more effort will just not ever fix.

Dan:
Hmm. Yeah, that's true. That's a great point. It's you already made a mistake or for whatever reason stars didn't align

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
Right, you're not gonna you're not gonna, you know force it to all of a sudden get back into alignment

Charles:
Yeah, you just can't. So it's just, you just leave it alone. And if she decides she's open to interaction down the road, not being weird with her is the only way that she'll be encouraged and feel comfortable to do that. Let's see. Here's a point that he makes. It's easy to fall into the trap of texting a woman for hours on end when you're in the early stages of a relationship. But here's why that's hard. You might feel an intense level of desire and comfort when you speak to a woman. You might feel the need to express this desire when you communicate, convinced that doing so will bring the two of you closer together and strengthen the bond between you. But

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
usually it does not do that. I mean, to tell... early in a relationship to tell a woman, you know, something that you find is deeply romantic, like, man, I feel like we have such a connection. I enjoy talking to you so much. I feel like I could tell you anything. It scares women away. I mean, have that conversation with

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
your fiance, with your wife, with your long-term girlfriend, if you want to. I mean, don't do it every day. Don't do it to the point where it gets weird, but dropping stuff like that on a girl early in a relationship. You may even get a positive response in the moment when you do it, but it is going to just add something to the side of that scale that says, okay, this guy is. Needy clingy, whatever. And, and

Dan:
Yep.

Charles:
so, so don't do it just, and if you are doing that, knock it off.

Dan:
Just knocking off.

Charles:
Just quit doing it.

Dan:
Stop.

Charles:
Yeah, it does feel like the thing that you could say that would boost intimacy and boost attraction, boost connection, but the, the downside and the, the risks of doing it again. And again, we're talking about doing this early in a relate in a dating relationship. I'm not, I'm not saying don't tell your wife you love her, but I'm saying when you're first meeting somebody and you're having that impulse to talk to her and stay up all night texting and getting into all of your hopes and dreams and aspirations, and then you're feeling so connected. because you guys are sharing so much. And then you feel like you need to offer a meta analysis of what's going on and tell her how good it makes you feel. And it's not a good thing to do, man.

Dan:
Nope.

Charles:
It's bad.

Dan:
Yep. Yeah. I've been there.

Charles:
Yeah, so have I. And it's hard to resist sometimes, but you still gotta do that. And that just goes, it goes into this study that he references where... Women are most excited and attracted to men when the man's feelings for them are unknown or uncertain.

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
If they know exactly where you stand, meaning, oh yeah, I know that guy doesn't like me, he's not attracted to me, she's not gonna be attracted to you. Or, oh, I know that guy would jump in front of a train with me even though we only met once at a bar, I know he's super into me and he would do anything to see me again. The attraction's not gonna be there. It's the... Yeah, I enjoyed hanging out with a guy. I'm not sure how he feels about me. That is the thing that seems to generate the most feelings of desire and attraction in women, which,

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
you know,

Dan:
again,

Charles:
it makes sense.

Dan:
that mystery, the mystery,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
the unknown,

Charles:
absolutely.

Dan:
the right allows, allows that space then and prompts your brain to start imagining things, asking questions, answering these questions, assuming things, right? Now all of a sudden all of these things are, are activated. And a lot of times whether it's good or bad, those thoughts generate emotions and feelings and

Charles:
Yeah. And, uh, and, and remember that, you know, the, the rule that attraction grows in space, not in close proximity. I mean, it applies across the board, both physical space as well as emotional space. You need a little bit of space because I mean, it's like, you know, we've talked about before when it comes to, um, men in particular, dealing with breakups and breakups that, uh, what, what is the statistic? Like 70% of breakups are initiated by women. And,

Dan:
Hmm

Charles:
And a lot of guys find themselves in a position after a breakup where, you know, they, they want their girlfriend or their wife back. They want their partner back. And the impulse for how to act when, when that's what you want is almost always wrong because you can't. someone cannot miss you if you're always in their face. And that's why, you know, adopting a rule of no contact with somebody who has rejected you is always the healthiest thing for you to do, both in your recovery and getting over the relationship, as well as maximizing any chance that you have of getting that person back down the road. You gotta just give them space. You gotta let them realize and remember, oh yeah, you know, this relationship had problems, but there were some things I liked and now I don't get those things that I like anymore and I miss those things where, you know, if, if you adopt a, Hey, well, let's be friends. Let's still hang out. Even though you don't want to be with me anymore type of mindset, then you know, you don't let that person experience the space of being away from you. And there, there is no fondly recollecting over the times you had together when you're giving them a light version of that all the time, because you're a puppy dog who won't leave them alone.

Dan:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Charles:
And it stands true for a new relationship too. If you're constantly texting and being around that person, then they can never, oh, I wish I was hearing from so-and-so right now because they're always hearing from you.

Dan:
Yeah, right. There's no time

Charles:
Um,

Dan:
for that.

Charles:
one last thing to do to remember is generally speaking, um, when you get communication from a gal that you're interested in, your responses to her should be of equal or lesser length than her, than her communications to you.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
So if she sends you, you know, a one word answer about something, then respond with a one word answer or just a thumbs up or something like that. Don't, uh, don't, and man, there's so many ways, so many areas in life that this makes sense, even if it's somebody that you're dealing with on a professional level. It's like, yeah, don't give people more than what they're giving to you, otherwise it's going to just contribute to even more of an imbalance in your communication with somebody, and that's gonna end up making one or both of you uncomfortable. So when you're getting brief conversations from somebody, answer briefly. When you're getting medium or long length, then answer with medium or long length, but. never more than that person because then it puts pressure on them to respond more or it makes you look desperate or there's just nothing good that happens when you overindulge in communication with somebody.

Dan:
Yeah, it's another form of mirroring, which I learned

Charles:
Yes

Dan:
a little bit about from Tony Robbins, who talks about that. But he was talking about like facial expressions. And when you're talking to somebody in person in terms of, you know, their tone and their speed and everything else in terms of how they're talking. But it holds true when you are also texting or writing emails, things like that, I feel. And I try to do that with a lot of our a lot of my customers. when even when they're using the wrong terminology for things, um, when we're talking about something, I will also, I used to correct them because you know, I like teaching lessons. And so I don't do that anymore. Um, and just because I just picked up on mirroring and I just felt like our conversations with, you know, went smoother when I would use the same lingo to

Charles:
Mmm.

Dan:
describe something that they did. And, and, and my responses. And so, you know, basically, um, I turned it around and looked at it from their point of view. And if I was dealing with me and somebody purposely used a different language or words to describe it,

Charles:
Mm.

Dan:
I could see myself perhaps being a little offended. Like you're being a little holier than thou. You're trying to teach me something. And that's not what the conversation is about. So I think a similar type of thing thing holds true with texting with women and people in general, in terms of also using similar type of language and similar type of length of response.

Charles:
Yeah, no, I agree and I think it's just the... You want to seem socially aware and socially skilled, especially when you're trying to attract someone and build interest. You want to seem like somebody who knows how to talk to people and knows how to interact with people and knows how to meet people at the level that they're currently at. And yeah, just sending somebody a huge wall of text when they're not engaging in that level of communication, it can be off-putting. I mean, I've... I've experienced it from the other side where I'm just having a, what I feel like is a casual conversation with somebody over text and they, you know, I see the three dots for five minutes and then this huge wall of text shows up. And I was like, okay, I mean,

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
even if this is, even

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
if this isn't, you know, being criticized or there's going to be something a little overwhelming about that, because I mean, honestly, I could skip seeing big walls. If there's that much to say over text, go ahead and let's have a voice conversation or let's talk in person or let's

Dan:
Yep.

Charles:
put a pin in it until we can talk in person. Because yeah, that's just a rough, I don't think the medium's good for that. The best thing to use texting for is for setting dates, which is what we're gonna talk about in our next episode. And settling on the logistics of, hey, let's get together, not let's deeply analyze the dynamics of our relationship.

Dan:
Yeah, I need to practice that as well. So I'm looking forward to that one.

Charles:
All right. All right. Let's, uh, let's leave it there for now. And we will, uh, as I said, the next episode will be, uh, setting dates, first dates, follow updates. Um, this is a real short one, only a couple of pages. So, uh, perfect. Here's what we're going to do next for the next episode. We're going to do setting dates and then we're also going to do when she flakes and cancels dates.

Dan:
Oh yeah, I like that one.

Charles:
Yeah, and we will cover both of those topics in the next episode. All right. Dan, I hope you have a great day. I know again, you won't have anything as exciting as picking up a new shitter for your, uh, domicile. But a few of us, a few of us do get to have a day that exciting. And I'm looking forward to mine.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, looking forward to getting together with the guys again tonight for happy hours. Well, it's been a while.

Charles:
Yeah, yeah it has. I could definitely use some cheap shakai sushi tonight and some club soda with lemon. Cause I'm still

Dan:
Delicious

Charles:
in the wagon.

Dan:
delicious

Charles:
Alright, talk to you later Dan.

Dan:
Have a good one. Bye bye.

Charles:
Bye.