Do This When Your Date Cancels

In this episode, we discuss pre-date communication, and what it means (and how to deal) if/when your date cancels on you.

Transcript

Dan:
Hey Charles, good afternoon.

Charles:
Hey Dan, how you doing?

Dan:
I am well and

Charles:
Still

Dan:
well.

Charles:
doing well? We just

Dan:
I'm

Charles:
talked.

Dan:
still doing well.

Charles:
Gotta

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
pretend like this is a completely different day. That's what the pros do, I guess.

Dan:
Don't pull

Charles:
I,

Dan:
the curtain back. Don't

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
pull the curtain back.

Charles:
I bought new books recently and I'm waiting for some of them to get delivered.

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
I wish there was a... an easy solution for marking up digital books like there is for actually having a physical book and being able to write notes in the margin and highlight things. I just have not seen anything. I mean, I've seen, you know, you can get the pencil for iPads and stuff like that, but it

Dan:
Hmm

Charles:
just doesn't feel the same as actually writing in a book. You know what I mean?

Dan:
have you have you tried with the Kindle reader?

Charles:
No, I'm not.

Dan:
Okay, so that's fairly easy to do and you can use different highlighting colors and

Charles:
Really?

Dan:
you don't need a pencil. You can use your finger and everything to do

Charles:
Interesting.

Dan:
it. Yeah.

Charles:
I don't, I wonder if

Dan:
On

Charles:
I

Dan:
your

Charles:
would

Dan:
phone.

Charles:
like it. I don't know. Maybe I should try it.

Dan:
It took me a little getting used to,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
but once I got it down, yeah. And then you can skip right to those sections based on the colors and everything too. I'm pretty sure.

Charles:
Interesting.

Dan:
So

Charles:
That does

Dan:
yeah,

Charles:
sound

Dan:
I think

Charles:
pretty good.

Dan:
look, look into that. And again, I didn't, that's on my phone. I didn't even use like an official Kindle ebook reader

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
or anything. I'll bet you it might be a little bit more seamless on that. I don't know.

Charles:
Yeah, maybe I will check into that.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
Um, but lately, yeah, lately I've been, I've been buying a lot of books used off of eBay because gosh, they're just used books are so cheap. They, they really depreciate quick. Like, uh, like cars, you know, where they, the

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
value just drops off and, and most of the ones I get, they look new, they look new or close to new, even though they're used and they're, they're just, it's awesome. I mean, I'm getting stuff for $3, $4 a book. That would be. $20 if I ordered it brand new off of Amazon and so I'm enjoying that it's just I've got so many and ever since my Bookshelf fell out of the wall. I've been it's been hard to find places to store books in my in my camper But I did find some new Mounting equipment that a lot of people with RVs are claiming that has worked for them You need like a special tool to be able to put It's basically the same kind of anchors you use if like in your house you have hollow core doors But you need to hang something from

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
a door That's hollow in the middle and

Dan:
Yup.

Charles:
a lot of people with RVs are saying that they're able to use that successfully to hang stuff from the walls and their RVs so They're they're not expensive. They're not cheap though. It's like for a pack of 50 screws it's like $20 where you know, that's like 50 cents a screw and Usually when you're just buying some cheap plastic drywall anchors for regular stuff hanging up stuff in your house, you know, dirt cheap at Home Depot or Lowe's or Walmart

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
or whatever. But I'm thinking about trying it and see if I can put my bookshelf back up and then I'll have a place I can hang all my books without having to worry about it coming crashing down like the last one did. And

Dan:
Do

Charles:
ideally

Dan:
they make any like storage containers for like on top of your camper that maybe a little bit, you can get some more stuff in there and might be a little bit easier.

Charles:
like

Dan:
Might

Charles:
actually

Dan:
be more expensive, but

Charles:
outside

Dan:
you

Charles:
of

Dan:
know,

Charles:
the camper.

Dan:
yeah, like on top maybe, you know, some

Charles:
Um,

Dan:
sort of,

Charles:
yeah, yeah. I mean, my, my

Dan:
you

Charles:
camper

Dan:
know.

Charles:
has, it has a roof that supports, you know, I can walk up on, on top of my roof, so it would definitely hold the weight of something like that. But the inconvenience of being able to get stuff in and out of there would like, I would

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
literally

Dan:
It would

Charles:
have to

Dan:
be

Charles:
put

Dan:
long

Charles:
up

Dan:
term

Charles:
a ladder.

Dan:
storage.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
Right. Yeah. It wouldn't be obviously stuff you need to get all the time for sure. But I was

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
just wondering if you could

Charles:
but...

Dan:
like maybe just kind of move things up there that you know.

Charles:
Yeah, I would think they probably have devices like that. Similar to the ones that, you know, you see people put on their mini vans when they're taking the family on vacation.

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
Um,

Dan:
right,

Charles:
you know, the sort

Dan:
exactly.

Charles:
of those aerodynamic ones that, uh, fit on the roof of your, of your van.

Dan:
those

Charles:
Yeah, that's

Dan:
fancy

Charles:
there's.

Dan:
tooly ones. Yeah.

Charles:
Yeah, there's probably something like that, but I, uh, I'll have to, I'll have to check into it. So,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
all right, let's see what's going on. I, um, I already talked about the pain of paying for a new radiator for my car. Um, let's see what else. have I got going? I am. I think I'm gonna do,

Dan:
Any trips coming up?

Charles:
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do another Mammoth March, the one in New Jersey, where

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
it's 30 miles instead of 20 miles, and it's 12 hours instead of eight hours. And New Jersey is the only, that's the only one in the country where they're doing the 20 mile and the 30 mile version on the same day. And so I would,

Dan:
So.

Charles:
my start time would be like 6 a.m. and then I would spend. until probably, I don't know if I could do it in 12 hours, I think it would probably take a little bit longer to do all 30 miles.

Dan:
So what is that? Let's crunch some numbers here, man. How fast

Charles:
I think

Dan:
do

Charles:
it's

Dan:
you

Charles:
about

Dan:
need

Charles:
two

Dan:
to do

Charles:
and a half.

Dan:
that? So we're doing 30 miles in 12 hours. So that's two and a half miles an hour,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
right? Okay.

Charles:
Which, you know, I mean, on level paved ground, that's nothing. But, you know, when

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you're going up, you're going down, you're looking out for rocks, looking

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
out for roots, crossing streams.

Dan:
oh, so this is okay. So this is

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
in the woods, man. This

Charles:
Well,

Dan:
is

Charles:
the one,

Dan:
okay.

Charles:
the one in, uh, the one in Tennessee definitely was woods woods. It was, it was harder than the, uh, the one I did outside of Orlando. So I've only done

Dan:
You

Charles:
two

Dan:
know,

Charles:
so far.

Dan:
and then I'm assuming you need to take breaks every couple of hours or whatever, right? And like

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
how long

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
are you taking a break for?

Charles:
they'll have aid stations set up with port-a-potties, with water, with fruit, with energy bars about every six miles. So probably, I probably hit about five of those on the trip.

Dan:
and how long do you usually rest for?

Charles:
Five or ten minutes maybe.

Dan:
Okay, so what happens if after 12 hours you haven't finished the 30 miles they come and

Charles:
They,

Dan:
get you or?

Charles:
no, they stick around as long as it, as long as, uh, as long as you're making, as long as you're still making forward progress, they'll let you take as long as you take.

Dan:
Okay, so then why do you need to fall into this 12 hour window? What happens at 12 hours?

Charles:
Nothing. That's just the goal and the target that they want

Dan:
Uh...

Charles:
people to work for. But, you know, once the last person... Because they will stay until the last person crosses the finish line, but obviously, you know, those volunteers, they don't want

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
to be there, you know, for 24 hours if they don't have to. So you're encouraged

Dan:
You know.

Charles:
to shoot for that 12-hour goal.

Dan:
You've done a couple of these. Do you see anybody who goes a little faster than walking, does like a little light jog?

Charles:
Oh, there are people that like run the whole thing. It's, it's insane.

Dan:
Oh, wow.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
Good

Charles:
There

Dan:
for

Charles:
are like

Dan:
them.

Charles:
some, some real cross cross-country types that will, they'll, they'll run or jog the whole way. And it's disgusting. I hate it. Yeah, like I'll be on mile. I don't know, I want to say like 14 or 15 and I see somebody coming back the other direction. I'm like, you mother. So, I

Dan:
Why

Charles:
mean,

Dan:
does that get your goat?

Charles:
I'm both, I'm both jealous of them and angry at them. You know, it's

Dan:
What,

Charles:
like.

Dan:
why are you angry?

Charles:
I don't know,

Dan:
Let's

Charles:
because

Dan:
get into this, I'm curious.

Charles:
they could do something I can't, and that's not fair.

Dan:
Okay, okay,

Charles:
No one in the world should

Dan:
all right.

Charles:
be able to do things I can't do.

Dan:
I don't know why you think you're a narcissist. I mean,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
you

Charles:
I

Dan:
know,

Charles:
don't know either. It's

Dan:
I don't

Charles:
weird.

Dan:
know where that comes from.

Charles:
I don't know. But yeah,

Dan:
We

Charles:
it's

Dan:
need to have Renata back on again, I think.

Charles:
No, I'm mostly impressed by their ability to do that, but I'm like

Dan:
Mostly, you still even just, yeah, right, that's historical. Meanwhile,

Charles:
It's

Dan:
they've

Charles:
a little...

Dan:
made all these sacrifices to be

Charles:
Exactly,

Dan:
able to do that

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
where, you know, you haven't had to do that,

Charles:
Correct.

Dan:
right?

Charles:
I haven't

Dan:
So,

Charles:
gone

Dan:
and

Charles:
through

Dan:
if

Charles:
the

Dan:
you

Charles:
train.

Dan:
did,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
there's nothing saying that you couldn't do it, right? It's just

Charles:
I mean...

Dan:
you've chosen to not train for that. That's all,

Charles:
Well, yeah,

Dan:
doesn't,

Charles:
I mean, I'm assuming

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
my body probably has the physical potential to do that,

Dan:
Mm

Charles:
but

Dan:
hmm.

Charles:
my mind

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
certainly does not.

Dan:
Right. Yeah. You're stimulated by other things. And that's okay.

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
That's

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
okay.

Charles:
I don't have the same reward system.

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
I don't have the same whatever

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
that, uh, yeah, that's just not a thing that I would find valuable enough to

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
put the, put the effort into so far. I mean, that might change at some point, but, um, yeah, so, um, I'm planning on, uh, going up to Hackett's town, New Jersey, uh, on October 1st. That's when this thing is scheduled for.

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
So I, I might have some brisk, uh, brisk weather in it for me.

Dan:
Yeah, it'll definitely be cooler for sure,

Charles:
I

Dan:
but

Charles:
will probably,

Dan:
I don't think it'll be cold yet.

Charles:
I have a pair of Columbia pants that,

Dan:
Yeah, that'll

Charles:
they're

Dan:
work

Charles:
convertible,

Dan:
well.

Charles:
they zip to, they can be shorts or they can be pants. They

Dan:
Nice.

Charles:
sort of zip

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
the bottoms on. So I'll probably wear those maybe with some, with a base, a long base layer underneath them. I don't know if that will be required in October 1st, or I think there's a good chance it might. It could, especially if there's some elevation involved, it could get a little chilly.

Dan:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean at 12 hours it's yeah, you're hitting into the evening at that point. So

Charles:
Yeah, 6 a.m. middle. It might be a little cool and 6 p.m. might be a little cool as well.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
So yeah, that's but I am leaning. I haven't bought my registration yet. They often sell out. But from what I understand, the 30 mile ones don't sell out as quickly as the 20s. There's most people

Dan:
So here's

Charles:
opt

Dan:
a question

Charles:
for the 20.

Dan:
for it.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
So here's a question for you. So do you get credit for the 20 if you decide, you know, when you're at mile 20, you're like, Oh, I'm done. Is it the same route and then just the people who do 30 just keep going

Charles:
Ooh,

Dan:
or

Charles:
good-

Dan:
is it

Charles:
Ah!

Dan:
a completely different race in a different area?

Charles:
That's a good

Dan:
It

Charles:
question.

Dan:
sounded like it was the same day or no.

Charles:
It's the same day for sure. Uh,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
usually the, the 30 mile people, it looks like the 30 mile people start earlier and finish later, but I don't know about the route they usually don't recommend, they don't release the route until like a couple of days beforehand because sometimes they have to make changes or adjustments based on weather conditions, uh, but

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
yeah, that's a good point. I don't know. Maybe, maybe you do the 20 mile route. And then they send you on a quick five mile out and back at the end of the 20 miles to get your. your last 10 miles. I don't know. But yeah, I mean that you can you can stop whenever you want to. And I mean, at the last one, like they're handing out the little participation medals at the at the finish line. I was like, nah, you go and keep it. I mean, because what am I gonna do with that? It's like, I'll take it. I'll snap a quick

Dan:
Right,

Charles:
picture

Dan:
well,

Charles:
of one. And then I'll give it back to him because

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
I'm like a store in my place.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's,

Charles:
The fact

Dan:
you

Charles:
that

Dan:
know.

Charles:
they have they have like semi professional photographers, they're taking your picture during the thing. That's all I need as far as a souvenir or memento is

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
just, you know, take my

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
picture when I'm walking across the finish line. And that's all I need. I don't need some trinket to take up space in my in my RV to prove that I did it, you

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
know.

Dan:
some people, some people like trinkets. They're still

Charles:
Some

Dan:
trophy

Charles:
people do

Dan:
stores

Charles:
like trinkets.

Dan:
and business.

Charles:
And I'm not saying I'm better than those people. But if you say it, I'll agree with you. All right. So there's a couple of things I wanted to talk about from our last episode that I forgot to mention, which was

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
when you set a follow up or subsequent date with a gal after you have a good first date. I usually say wait till the next day, you know, let yourself calm down from the experience of what hopefully was a good date. And then some people will say wait a couple of days, but I don't buy into any of that. I would say if you go out with somebody on a Wednesday night, then you're probably going to wake up on Thursday knowing whether you'd like to see her again. And if you would then

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
just text her and say you had a good time and you'd like to go out again. What I would recommend, however, is, um, when you're in the early stages of a dating relationship where, you know, you haven't talked about exclusivity or, or being in a relationship or none of those conversations have taken place. I would try to limit yourself to one date per week. because that will give you time to focus on the other things that are important in your life, like your friends and your interests and your career and all those important things and not get artificially obsessed and dumping all of your time and all of your energy into this new relationship, which will, which has the possibility of scaring a young lady away. Um, so I would say until you're exclusive, only go out once a week. Once you are.

Dan:
and then just text every day, right, in between the dates.

Charles:
You can text frequently, but keep it,

Dan:
That was

Charles:
keep

Dan:
kind

Charles:
the

Dan:
of a

Charles:
cup.

Dan:
joke, but I'm

Charles:
I know

Dan:
curious to hear how this goes.

Charles:
I would say keep,

Dan:
What's

Charles:
keep

Dan:
your thoughts?

Charles:
the, keep the conversations and the messages fairly short, because again, you're supposed to be not, you're not supposed to be, uh, sort of blowing off or neglecting the other important things in your life,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
just to have a new relationship with somebody because. Again, if you go too deep, too fast with a new relationship, then you're minimizing the chances that some deep and strong roots could potentially grow. And you could just, one or both of you could just get over it sooner than you would otherwise from just putting too much front-loaded energy into it. So I would say,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I mean, yeah, keep the texting to a minimum. make it primarily to focus on logistics. I wouldn't start with good morning texts, good night texts every day when you've just gone on one nice date with somebody. You know, don't ignore the person, but also don't just dump tons and tons of time and send super long messages back and forth. I would say, again, based on myself and the guys that I know, your instincts for how much you text is probably too much. You probably need to back off a little bit on of that energy.

Dan:
So kind of like George and Seinfeld, do the exact opposite of what you would do, what you

Charles:
Maybe

Dan:
want

Charles:
not

Dan:
to do.

Charles:
the, maybe moderate, but don't, uh, yeah, don't, don't do the exact opposite, but certainly ask yourself, could somebody see this as too much and, you know, talk to

Dan:
Uh

Charles:
your,

Dan:
huh.

Charles:
talk to your guy and gal friends. Um, ideally only get advice from people that have the kind of relationship you'd like to have if somebody's got a terrible relationship where they're constantly fighting with their partner or feeling neglected or feeling smothered. That's probably not the person you should go to for advice. If you know that about the relationship, because you guys are friends, um, they may not be the best person to offer dating and relationship advice to you. I would go to people, even if you don't know the person as well as you might know your best friend, but from what you can tell from what you can see externally, they have the kind of relationship that you would like. That would be a better person to go to. Then, uh, then somebody who has a bit of a wreck of a relationship that you would want to avoid, like the plague. Um,

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
and here's, here's another thing I would say, which is also, um, when it comes to the mechanics of how to date someone and how to build attraction, um, you know, by all means, if you're in therapy, talk to your therapist about this stuff, but don't assume that their advice in this area will be infallible. I mean, you don't know your, your therapist could have. an avoidant or an anxious attachment style, just as well as they could have a secure attachment style, the way that they would behave if they were, you know, in a new dating relationship. And, and, you know, generally it's not a therapist's job to offer you life advice and say, you should do this. You should do that. But if you get into those conversations, um, just because someone has a mental health degree and a license, don't assume that they are going to know everything about every area of human relationships in a practical advice, giving way that you need to know. So I would, I would

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
definitely try to try to foster and curate a group of friends that you can go to for, for advice and mentorship on different things and don't just assume, Oh, well, this is my therapist. So whenever it comes to absolutely any question I have about how to deal with my parents, my kids, my dating relationships, my coworkers, I'll just do what they say because they're the therapist. Um, they, they will probably be able to have a lot of good and informed opinions that you might not think of because you're in the middle of all your situations and they're not, but they're also not, I mean, it's like, it's like going to a doctor and asking for, you know, strength training advice or diet advice, sometimes doctors as smart as they are at what they're smart at, they don't have all the answers in all the areas. And so you should never assume that one expert that you're talking to. in a particular domain knows everything about that huge domain or knows everything about every facet of life that you might have a question about.

Dan:
Yeah, it's very tough to, I think, do that if you, one, like you're there, because two, they've done well for you in the past in other areas, and three, it takes work then to go out and find another source of information versus just going back to this one person, right? And just thinking, hey, they're going to have all the right answers for me. that's not an easy thing for most of us to do. And I know a lot of people will do that with doctors too, in terms of their healthcare. Like you said, I mean, you could ask them about alternative therapies, that's not their forte. And sometimes if the doctor's good, they'll be like, look, that's not what I specialize in. You need to, and actually kind of lays it out there, goes, hey, look, you need to get a referral from, and that's why they're specialists, right? That's why there's oncologists and... you know, all different types of doctors out there. So, um, the same holds true when it comes to therapy and dating and relationships that you have, uh, any thoughts on if, you know, where to find somebody that has a relationship that you want any, any ideas, somebody where, you know, you might be able to glean some advice from, um, in addition to the therapist.

Charles:
Uh, not really. I mean, if, if you don't see it in your, in your friend group, in your peer group, uh, with a coworker,

Dan:
get some new friends.

Charles:
I mean, maybe

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I, I don't know where, I mean, that's a good question,

Dan:
Maybe a

Charles:
Dan.

Dan:
coworker, that's not a bad idea. Maybe people that you work with or whatever, you end up finding out if they're married

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
or not, and sometimes you have those casual, non-work related conversations, and you might be able, that might be a good source for sure. Yeah.

Charles:
Yeah, I would leverage people that you already know. And if you are in therapy and if your therapy involves any kind of group work, maybe there's somebody in your group that

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you could ask. Yeah, I don't know how you would seek out people in that role. I mean, I guess if you're religious and you're somebody who attends church, you might be

Dan:
Uh

Charles:
able

Dan:
huh.

Charles:
to find somebody. in your church who has a relationship that you can look up to and go to them for some mentorship. Yeah, I'm not sure. That's not something that I have engaged in where I was looking

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
specifically for mentors in that area. I mean, there's plenty of people who will give advice from YouTube videos, podcasts on Reddit, but you really don't know what their situation is. So it's hard to know whether they're a good source of advice. So

Dan:
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's a question for the therapist is, Hey, you

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
know, where are some resources, groups or people that I can get involved with to, you know, kind of round out the knowledge that I'm looking for. That might be, I'm sure they get asked that all the time.

Charles:
Yeah, I think so. And that's something to keep in mind. So, okay, so yeah, just going back, I would say until you're exclusive, go on a date once a week. If you are exclusive, I would say twice a week. And until the point where you're living together. I would say try to keep it around twice a week because you know, it is very possible that you can spend too much time around your partner to the level where one or both of you feels like, okay, this is getting a little based on our level of commitment based on the amount of time we've been together based on, you know, all the other stuff we have going in our lives. This is this is getting to feel a little bit either claustrophobic or at worst burdensome, you know,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
so I would say. And plus, if you're only seeing each other twice a week, you know, you've got time to live your lives and have interesting things to talk about when you do come together. And you've got time to look forward to seeing each other. Where, you know, if you're spending all your waking moments talking to this person, texting to this person, just sitting on a couch together while you play on your phones, you know, it does impact the quantity, as the quantity of your time together goes up, the quality of your time can very easily go down. I've seen that in my own relationships.

Dan:
Yeah, it sounds like a marriage to me, right? Where you're spending all the time together, you're sitting on the couch,

Charles:
Yeah. And

Dan:
texting

Charles:
even in

Dan:
each

Charles:
that,

Dan:
other all day.

Charles:
and even

Dan:
I think...

Charles:
in that, in that situation, it's, uh, and I've neglected this in my own marriage where you need to have, you need to both have things that you do alone that are your own things that you're not constantly trying to pull your partner into being into with you. It can just be your thing. And, um, but then also set aside those date nights to have with each other as well, where, you know, you do have time that you spend just one-on-one with each other. outside of your separate interests that you enjoy with your friends. Ooh, I am getting some. Can you hear the weather coming through my microphone? The rain and the thunder.

Dan:
Uh, a little bit. Not too

Charles:
Okay,

Dan:
bad.

Charles:
not enough to ruin the podcast.

Dan:
No, not at all. Nope. Just sounded like a little feedback. That's all.

Charles:
Uh oh, looks like the internet may be suffering though.

Dan:
Oh, now you're gone, totally. I don't hear anything. So did you just lose internet? So we will be right back. This is a pause here. And let's see what happens. See if he texts me, lets me know. Bear with us.

Charles:
Okay, am I back?

Dan:
You are back.

Charles:
Okay, good deal. Let's see, I will, it looks like we're recording already. I'm gonna turn off

Dan:
actually.

Charles:
my uploading so that it doesn't do that. And then, yeah, so I'm on the hot spot right now and I'll just record locally and then upload it later. Okay, so sorry about that. Yeah,

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
I, yeah,

Dan:
yep,

Charles:
boy,

Dan:
no problem.

Charles:
pretty bad thunderstorm just kind of rolled in and it was fine for a second then it started raining and then the thunder and lightning just. I think the light last lightning bolt hit somewhere in

Dan:
cheese.

Charles:
the campground. It was very close by. So that's very exciting. My cat hates it. Okay. Uh, we were talking about, um, yeah, when you're married, you should have, you should both have your own interests and your own friend groups that you like hanging out with and spending time in. And then you should come together a couple, at least once a week, maybe twice a week to have a date night where it's just the two of you and it's not her hanging out with you and your friends. It's not you hanging out with her and her friends. It's just, which you can do those things too. But you should have at least, you know, one night a week where it's just you and you and your partner together. And I would say that's applies to marriage or deeply committed relationship, whatever your, your situation is. Um, but yeah, so that's, that's my advice. I also like the idea of, um, you have, I think the way that I heard it was one date night a month, one weekend getaway per quarter. and one week vacation together per year. And that seemed like a pretty, pretty good system. I can buy into that.

Dan:
Yeah. Yeah, me too, for sure. So, um, what's interesting is before you even get to that level of commitment, um, let's talk about flakiness and canceling.

Charles:
Ah yes.

Dan:
dates.

Charles:
So,

Dan:
He's got some interesting paragraph titles

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
here.

Charles:
he goes into a little bit more detail on all the reasons that a girl may, and again, let's sort of set the table here. When I talk about flaking, I'm talking about when someone cancels a date with very short notice. Like, I would say,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
if you have a date scheduled for six o'clock and they cancel the day of or a few hours beforehand. I would consider that flaking, would you agree?

Dan:
Yeah, for sure.

Charles:
Or if they don't, or if they don't contact you and just don't show up, that's certainly flaking as well.

Dan:
Well, I'll be honest with you. I feel like if they agree to the date and cancel at any point after that, to me, that's and not and not suggest a replacement time and day to me, that's flaky. So regardless of how far

Charles:
Okay.

Dan:
in advance to me is you make a commitment and because you and I are both very much of that ilk where

Charles:
Yeah, oh yeah.

Dan:
our, you know, our word is our bond. So It's if you then, you know, then cancel after committing to something and versus, you know, versus saying, Hey, I might be able, I might be available. I'll let you know that's not being flaky, right? It's,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
it's, yep. Okay. I agree to this time. I agree to this place. And, and, and then there's a break in communication. And then there is any type of, Hey, I'm,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
it's not going to happen.

Charles:
I'm

Dan:
And

Charles:
gonna

Dan:
then there's no, and then there's no, then, and then, okay, I guess. If there's a cancellation with a reason, then maybe it's not being flaky, at least they're letting you know ahead of time,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
right?

Charles:
I was going to say I'm, I'm given

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
grace sort of like when you, you purchase a, uh, even when you purchase a non-refundable airline ticket, if you, if you say that there's a change of plans within a certain window after you click the, the pay now button, then they, they give you a pass, even though it's technically non-refundable. So if I make

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
a date with

Dan:
I

Charles:
a

Dan:
never

Charles:
girl,

Dan:
thought about it like that.

Charles:
if I make a date

Dan:
All right.

Charles:
with a girl and like an hour later, she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I know we agreed to seven o'clock on Thursday, but I just realized. I've got a. take my dog to the Sheratonist or whatever it is. Um, you know, if it's like right with an hour or two after

Dan:
Okay,

Charles:
we've made it a plan

Dan:
that's.

Charles:
and she says, Oh, I forgot I had this. Then, then it's like, okay, that I consider that the same as never canceling if it's, if it happens like that.

Dan:
Yeah, I'll do the 24 hours. I feel like that's

Charles:
Hehehehe

Dan:
okay. That's fair. But once you've had 24 hours to think about it, and

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
at that point, I feel like it's flaky. Unless they actually give you a reason. So here's the interesting thing is I feel like if they don't give you a reason, to me it would come across as, and don't reschedule, to me that would have come across as flaky. But if they actually step up and say, hey look, you know what, I'm also dating somebody else, I really wanna see where this is going, I don't feel comfortable at this point. I don't think I'd consider that flaky at that point because I

Charles:
No,

Dan:
feel

Charles:
neither would

Dan:
like,

Charles:
I.

Dan:
right? that's where I would kind of say, nope, that's fine. I appreciate that because to me, flaky comes across as being disrespectful. And if they're willing to say, make this commitment, but then give you some truth behind it and do a little bit of respectful thing, I feel like, yeah, that's not flaky.

Charles:
Yeah, but part of what he gets into is, you know, the what, one, two, three, four, five reasons that, that a woman could break a date with you on short notice or flake on you with however you wanted to find that. Part of the thing to remember is even though she gives you a reason that might feel good for you to hear, you don't know for sure that it's true. I mean, this is a,

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
this is a

Dan:
True.

Charles:
brand new person that

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you're meeting. And so no matter how thoughtful or detailed of an, of a reason that she gives you that that she's breaking the date. You don't really know if that's actually the reason or not.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
And I would argue, I mean, so let me just read the list, and I'm not gonna go into a lot of detail on these. If you wanna talk about one or more of them, we certainly can, but here's why a woman, here's some of the reasons a woman might cancel a date. She's not feeling it, meaning just her emotional state is such that she doesn't think she would enjoy going on a date at all, or specifically with you. She's in love with someone else. She's just looking for validation. She wanted to, the fact that you made the date with her makes her feel good. Um,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
she has a real reason like she's sick, work deadline, whatever, uh, or she's testing you and she wants to break the date with you and see how you react to it and my position is it doesn't matter why she breaks a date, like whether, whether it's what you perceive to be a good reason or a valid reason or it's not it. It. It doesn't matter. It's not your, it's not your problem. It's not your issue. It's not your concern. She, she either doesn't want to, or is unable to be there at the time that she said she was going to be there. And that's all you need to know is that the date you thought was going to happen is now not going to happen. And now it's your job to handle that with a level of emotional regulation and. Uh, confidence and even mindedness and just keep your crap together. And. don't spin out of control and act out or misbehave.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
It doesn't matter why it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. But the Instagram video I saw that has the absolute perfect response when someone breaks their plans with you, said send them this message.

Dan:
Well, hold

Charles:
Hey,

Dan:
on, set the scene

Charles:
yes.

Dan:
a little bit first because breaking the plans in advance doesn't apply here, right? It's a no

Charles:
It wouldn't

Dan:
show.

Charles:
to me, this would be a, if

Dan:
Right?

Charles:
no, I would, no, I would say even whatever window you define for yourself as flaking, if, if the cancellation happens within the flaking window, then this is what

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you said.

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
Okay. And that's basically the only time you wouldn't send this is if In my case, if she cancels right after we made the plans and says, Hey, I realized I can't get together on this date. Okay. No problem. But if it's anywhere in the window that I consider flaking up to it, including I'm sitting at the restaurant waiting for her to walk in and instead of her walking

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
in, she sends me the text. This is what I send. Hey, thanks for letting me know. And that's it. No, nothing additional, no emojis, no nothing. Just. Hey, comma, because I use punctuation correctly. Thanks for letting me know, period. And then I don't message her again, ever, until she responds to that message. So if I say, hey, thanks for letting me know, and she doesn't respond to it, then we never talk again, as long as I live.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
That's the way it goes. And that will tell you a lot about the reason that she canceled the date, based on how she responds to you, when you send her that message. When you say, hey, thanks for letting me know, you could get silence. You could get, yeah, I'm so sorry such and such happened, but I'd love to get together. Are you doing anything tomorrow? Or

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
is there another date you could suggest? She could send you something like that. She could send you, yeah, I just decided I'm gonna give my ex another chance. She could, again, send you nothing. It doesn't, it's all. Everything you need to know will be told to you from the next thing that she says after you say, Hey, thanks for letting me know.

Dan:
I like to go with an alternate version of that. Basically it's how dare you?

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
Question mark,

Charles:
Now

Dan:
cause I use

Charles:
I

Dan:
proper

Charles:
was going to

Dan:
punctuation.

Charles:
say with a question mark or an exclamation point. That's the question.

Dan:
But both, right?

Charles:
That is a move. Yeah, I like the exclamation point followed by the question mark. How dare you? You know that you joke but Before I, before I saw this advice, I would probably say something like that to sort of, because I would feel some pressure to lighten the mood. Like I'm going to show her how cool I am with this. You know what I mean?

Dan:
Yeah, yeah.

Charles:
Where I'm going to show her how this isn't a big deal to me where, you know, depending on who it was, it could be a big deal or could not be a big deal, depending on how much I was looking forward to it. But I feel like the, Hey, thanks for letting me know. Um, it doesn't really communicate. Your. emotional state. It doesn't it doesn't let you sort of indulge and I'm going to show her that I I'm cool with this. I don't care blah, blah. It doesn't it doesn't overplay your hand. I would say we're trying to

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
make her laugh by sending her How dare you? It does overplay your hand

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
a little bit. But again, I'm

Dan:
Yup.

Charles:
not I know you were kidding, but that is the kind of thing I would have done just because it does

Dan:
Mm?

Charles:
lighten the mood a little bit to say how

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
dare you.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
But it also feels like You know, Oh, is he really mad or is he joking? I better, I bet I feel obligated now to send a follow-up to find out where, Hey, thanks for letting me know. Does not obligate her to send any kind of a follow-up.

Dan:
Right, so I feel like you might need to put an Instagram video out here with your how dare you.

Charles:
as a what not to do.

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
I don't think enough. I

Dan:
No,

Charles:
don't know.

Dan:
I think I, you know, maybe it's not, I was totally kidding, but now that you're kind of breaking it down that way, it is kind of making light of the situation. And I guess, depending on, you know, how she interprets that, but I guess if you, yeah, I think with it, depending on the kind of rapport you have, I guess, hopefully she takes it as a, as a kind of a joke, kind of making it lighthearted. And I don't think that's the worst thing in the world.

Charles:
I don't think responding to someone canceling plans. Again, I feel like in the past, I would feel an obligation to make things light and fun so that she will still like me and want to schedule a future date.

Dan:
And what's wrong with that?

Charles:
It feels a little needy, it feels a little tryhardy to me. because,

Dan:
Mm. Okay.

Charles:
because canceling a date on short notice is a behavior that I find. If I wouldn't say I find it immoral because at this point I, I don't know what, I don't know what her reasons are. And it doesn't matter. It could be, could be

Dan:
Uh-huh.

Charles:
justified, could be reasonable, could be a crappy thing to do to me. I don't know. I don't have the information to decide. And given the fact that I don't have the information to decide, I think the least manipulative, most honest and direct thing to say is, hey, thanks for letting me know.

Dan:
Yeah, for sure. I

Charles:
Whereas

Dan:
think.

Charles:
it's, it's not me trying to get

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
something out of her. It's me just saying, I mean, because

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
again, canceling a day on short notice is better than just not showing up at the bar or the restaurant or the coffee shop. So I am thankful that she's choosing to let me know she's not going to be there. So I'm not sitting

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
around for 20 minutes waiting for her to show up.

Dan:
I guess it depends on the rapport that you have with her. Like if you, you know, I feel like if you up until that point have a decent rapport and you've kind of been joking around and that's the kind of quote unquote interaction relationship that you have, yeah, maybe you could get away with something like, you know, how dare you type of thing. But yeah, I guess assuming here this is what the first or second date, you probably right. a, you know, probably a little bit more of a serious approach might work better. I guess

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
it really

Charles:
And,

Dan:
depends.

Charles:
and look, if, if her message to you where she's canceling includes the reason includes how sorry she is includes that she still wants to get together, you know, the following night or the night after that, then

Dan:
Oh, those

Charles:
that's,

Dan:
are all great. Yeah.

Charles:
that's different than

Dan:
Sure.

Charles:
just, Hey, I'm not going to be able to make it, which is,

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
is

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
what this response is mostly targeted to. I mean, if, if her, if the same message that she cancels with is also her extending effort to make the date still happen at another date or time. Or I mean,

Dan:
That's

Charles:
I've even had,

Dan:
that.

Charles:
I've even had girls say, Hey, I can't

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
meet you for happy hour because I got this work situation that came up. Can we get together after dinner instead?

Dan:
Yeah, that's,

Charles:
At

Dan:
I

Charles:
that point,

Dan:
wouldn't

Charles:
I'm not

Dan:
even.

Charles:
just sending the, Hey, thanks for letting me know. I'm saying, Oh, you know, either

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
no, that's

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
a little late for me. I'm already going to be in bed. Can we do tomorrow instead? Or I'm going to be like, Absolutely. I'll meet you at nine o'clock.

Dan:
Yeah, I mean, right now, if you're sitting there at the table where you're supposed to meet her and she's, you know, she doesn't show up. You're waiting there for like a half hour, an hour, and she sends that, oh, that might be a little bit different in terms of flakiness. Even, you know, even if she does want to reschedule, I feel like unless it was like a valid reason that that's just disrespectful of your time.

Charles:
Yeah, that

Dan:
And valid

Charles:
I mean,

Dan:
reason, I mean, are kind of like emergency situations.

Charles:
right,

Dan:
That's

Charles:
right.

Dan:
what I'm thinking of here, right? Not, oh, I was hanging out with, you know, my roommates too long or whatever. You know, or, you know, I was. Yeah,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
If, if it happened where I was like at the restaurant waiting, I mean, number one, like we said in the last episode, your first date is an opportunity for you to figure out, to find, look for and find reasons that this is not a person that you want a second date with. Right. So

Dan:
Mm-hmm. Right.

Charles:
if that happens, there's a good chance that I'm, I'm not going to be interested in, in Reese, if, if she let it get to the point where after the date was supposed to have started, she's texting me that she's not going to be there. I would say it's pretty unlikely that I'm going to be interested in rescheduling. Um, however, if I was very attracted to her, meaning she was very pretty, she seemed very smart, very funny, very interesting, blah, blah. What I might be willing to do is say. Okay, listen, I'm gonna head home now. since you stood me up for the last 15 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever it was, here's what we'll do. You. come up with and plan out a date for the two of us and ask me out with a specific date, time and location. And if I'm available, then we'll get together. And then I would just completely offload the whole process of making this repair, this do over date. It's completely

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
on her. She picks the location, she picks the place, she puts in all the effort, she pays,

Dan:
Oh interesting.

Charles:
and then we'll go. And if she thinks

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
that's unreasonable or unfair, I totally understand. I get that not a lot of women are interested in going through that. I'm not interested in going on do-over dates with people who stand me up. So we're not compatible in that case.

Dan:
That's fair.

Charles:
Okay. The author says if a woman flakes on you more than twice, you walk away and never contact her again unless she reaches out. I mean, if she flakes once and you send

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
the, hey, thanks for letting me know, you never send her anything after that. So

Dan:
No,

Charles:
I would say it's

Dan:
don't

Charles:
a,

Dan:
give her a second chance without,

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
yeah, no.

Charles:
But if she responds and she follows up about the idea of seeing you, then I'm fine having a conversation with her.

Dan:
Yeah, sure.

Charles:
If it gets to the point where, you know, literally, I have sat in a coffee shop waiting for her to show up twice and she hasn't, then whether she reaches out to me or not, I'm probably not talking to her again. You know what I mean? If somebody stands me up twice,

Dan:
now.

Charles:
then yeah,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I don't really, you're not my kind of person. You know, I don't think you're a bad person.

Dan:
I can't say

Charles:
I don't

Dan:
that

Charles:
think

Dan:
I've

Charles:
you're a

Dan:
ever.

Charles:
terrible...

Dan:
Yeah. Yeah, I can't say that I've ever. Attempt I've been stood up like a couple of times and I mean, not, um, not too often, but those couple of times, it there's never been any interest in me in meeting them again. And they've never reached out to me

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
afterwards. I

Charles:
I've

Dan:
feel

Charles:
never,

Dan:
like it's a very clear signal

Charles:
right, I've

Dan:
when

Charles:
never

Dan:
they

Charles:
heard,

Dan:
just stand, stand you up.

Charles:
I've never heard from a person that stood me up. It's like, I didn't hear from them before the date, I didn't hear from them after, we just never talked again. I

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
think it's happened to me twice, if I'm not mistaken. In my dating, I showed up at a place, they weren't there, and instead of just having a drink, I went ahead and ordered myself food and had dinner there. enjoyed dinner then either went somewhere for trivia or went home and watched TV or whatever and I just never heard from the person again which is fine I mean

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
again

Dan:
Yep.

Charles:
I don't know what their situation was I don't know what came up but I know that they either didn't want to be there or couldn't be there and from the fact that they never reached out again assumed that they didn't want to be there

Dan:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Charles:
that's okay you don't that's all right I don't take that personally there's people have things going on in their lives that you that you will never know what they're going through, what they're dealing with, who they're dealing with. And it was not, I mean, we didn't even know each other at that point. So it was no kind of objective evaluation of my value or my attractiveness or anything like that had all to do with them, nothing to do with me. At least that's the way I see it. Okay, so

Dan:
Alright.

Charles:
you want to talk about going no contact?

Dan:
Well, I'm wondering, do we want to do a separate that into the next episode? Cause we're, I think we're

Charles:
No,

Dan:
close

Charles:
we're,

Dan:
to a

Charles:
oh, that's

Dan:
45

Charles:
true.

Dan:
minutes

Charles:
You're,

Dan:
here.

Charles:
you're running a clock that I don't get to see because I left and came back because of the storm. My clocks only show me 20 minutes.

Dan:
Yeah, we did about 25 minutes before that. So I'm thinking maybe we get into it on the next episode.

Charles:
Okay, that sounds good. So we'll talk about going no contact. And, uh, the, the one after that is stop apologizing, which, uh, yeah, these, these are sort of, uh, I would say both of these could be breakup related in that going no contact is something you should probably do after a breakup. And if your idea of apologizing follows his advice to the letter, You will have a breakup in your near future because this guy is crazy when it comes to apologizing in my opinion.

Dan:
Let's get into it. I'm excited. All right, man.

Charles:
All right, I'll talk to you again soon.

Dan:
Yep, all right, bye.

Charles:
Bye.