Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men

We Don't Want to Talk About Sex

September 18, 2023 Mindfully Masculine Media LLC | Charles Calabritto & Dan Littman Episode 97
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
We Don't Want to Talk About Sex
Show Notes Transcript

The next chapter in "Atmoic Attraction" talks about sex in a way that feels weird to us, so we talk about it in a way that will probably feel weird to you.

We talk about other stuff, too.

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Dan:
Good morning, Charles. How are you?

Charles:
Um, I'm okay, Dan. How are you?

Dan:
I'm well, I'm well.

Charles:
I'm a little tired, I didn't get great sleep last night. Got home a little bit late from your place, still having hardware challenges with our recording equipment.

Dan:
It's amazing how it's like, I think it's coming down to like one little cable or computer or setting that just is really thrown a monkey wrench into the most important part of having a podcast and that's the audio.

Charles:
I know,

Dan:
It's not

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
even

Charles:
exactly.

Dan:
the video. That's the ironic part, right? It's like we've got

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
a video studio, but it's the audio we've got a problem with.

Charles:
Yeah, and I made an account with the manufacturer of our device so that I can start the support process to get him to

Dan:
Excellent.

Charles:
get them

Dan:
Thank

Charles:
to

Dan:
you

Charles:
tell

Dan:
for doing

Charles:
me,

Dan:
that.

Charles:
look, this is how you fix this problem. And boy, do I need them to tell me how

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
to fix this problem. Or at least tell me what the. the issue could be, what could be causing it, what I could, I mean, you know, they're troubleshooting lists of, you know, update this driver, turn this off, turn this back on. It's like, yeah, I know how that works. I've done all those things and it's still not working. So give me something I could use. And I think I'm gonna have to talk to a real person, preferably one who lives, you know, relatively close to my time zone. We'll see how that goes.

Dan:
Yeah. Right.

Charles:
But yeah, it's been a frustrating journey with trying to get that hardware to do what we need it to do, which will make it all the sweeter when it finally works. Isn't that

Dan:
Absolutely.

Charles:
how life's supposed

Dan:
That's

Charles:
to be?

Dan:
exactly right. Yes, we will absolutely appreciate it a lot more rather than just kind of rolling in there go, oh hey, you know, I'm just getting it going without much effort, right?

Charles:
Yeah, I hope so. So, um, let's see what's going on. Um, I'm coming up with moving day in two days. Uh, gonna

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
move

Dan:
big

Charles:
my

Dan:
day

Charles:
RV

Dan:
for

Charles:
from,

Dan:
you.

Charles:
yeah, from down here by Disney, uh, a little closer to you up in the Sanford-Sarento area. Uh, which I am ready for my change of scenery. And, uh, I am not ready

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
to hitch this thing up to a truck and move it though. I've got a lot of work to do today and tomorrow to make that happen. I appreciate your willingness to come and aid me in my quest. I was looking at maybe going away for Christmas this year. I can find some okay deals on airfare and hostels to jolly old England. So I was thinking of maybe doing a few days.

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
I've never been to London and I was thinking about maybe going to London for four or five days, right? Christmas is on a weekend this year. And so from a work

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
perspective, you know, getting out of town on Thursday and getting back on Monday over Christmas would work out pretty well. So I, I'm a little tempted

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
to do that. I just, uh, you know, it's taken, it's taken a fair bit of, um, new car money off the table for me to do that though. So I'm trying to decide

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
if

Dan:
right.

Charles:
it's, if it's worth it or not, you know

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
what I mean?

Dan:
yeah, that's you were you were really hopped up on the new car. So I'm surprised

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
you're

Charles:
and

Dan:
willing

Charles:
I s-

Dan:
to

Charles:
I s-

Dan:
put that aside for this trip.

Charles:
I know it's just, you know, when, uh, there's a battle between a new thing and a new experience for me, experience usually wins and

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
you know, especially,

Dan:
What is

Charles:
you know,

Dan:
it about

Charles:
I.

Dan:
London and Christmas time that you are particularly

Charles:
Well, I

Dan:
interested

Charles:
mean,

Dan:
in? Was

Charles:
I'm

Dan:
it just a good deal

Charles:
I am.

Dan:
or was it, I mean?

Charles:
I mean, the deal is OK. I mean, I can I can I can score a really nice bed at a well, I can score a bed at a really nice hostel for like 170 bucks out the door for like four nights. So it's real cheap to stay there. Getting there is going to cost me about 800 bucks round trip, which is still not bad to go to Europe. You know, eight hundred dollar round trip is

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
not crazy. And yeah, just being able to look back on Christmas 2023 when I was in London for Christmas. I mean, I'm a sap for holidays anyway, whether it's Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas, this whole time of the year, my birthday, is just holiday after holiday after holiday that I love. And so I do have a tendency to want to make them memorable and special and blah blah.

Dan:
Sure.

Charles:
You know, I do have... I did book this trip to Boston to go look at the leaves, which the airfare was very cheap. The airfare was like 70 bucks, but you know, staying in the hotel, eating while I'm up there, Ubering, getting from place to place. I could probably shave off $300 just by skipping that. You know, even if I just give up the $70 ticket that I bought, I could probably save myself three or 400 bucks just by not doing that trip. and putting that toward

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
the Christmas trip instead. So that's one thing

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
that I will toy around with, because I've been to Boston in autumn to see the leaves change like four years in a row. We're pretty close to it, you know? So

Dan:
OK,

Charles:
skipping that

Dan:
so

Charles:
would

Dan:
that

Charles:
not

Dan:
might

Charles:
really

Dan:
be,

Charles:
hurt my feelings

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
much.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, I think I think that would

Charles:
So

Dan:
probably be

Charles:
I might

Dan:
a smart

Charles:
consider

Dan:
move.

Charles:
doing that. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. $800 on a ticket is 10 times what I'm used to spending on flying around America to go see stuff. So it's, uh, it is, it is hard to think

Dan:
But

Charles:
about,

Dan:
that's...

Charles:
uh, dropping, dropping that much money on a ticket, you know? But I don't know. I

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
do love

Dan:
but

Charles:
the holidays

Dan:
that's

Charles:
and I

Dan:
I

Charles:
love

Dan:
mean,

Charles:
this

Dan:
it's

Charles:
time of year.

Dan:
a special it's a special place. It's a special place. It's not, you know, it's you

Charles:
It's not flying to Cleveland.

Dan:
know, there's a lot of history there, obviously, you know, and yeah, I mean, it's you know, that's not something you do all the time. And it's not something,

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
you know, it's easy to make happen. So there's, you know, there's a little bit of unique scarcity value there,

Charles:
True.

Dan:
I believe.

Charles:
Yeah, so I don't know. It's something that I'm toying around with the idea of. I do love to travel. I love new adventures. I love going places. So we'll

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
see if I decide to do it or not. All right. What else is going on? I guess that's about it on my list. You got anything exciting to report? How's your camper?

Dan:
Uh, I don't know. I haven't been there since the hurricane hit, so I'm going to go up there today, uh, and,

Charles:
Okay.

Dan:
uh, and check it out. I don't, I don't, you know, fortunately this area, central Florida and get hit very hard. We got a little bit of rain, a little bit of wind. That was it.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
Um, and I didn't really have anything outside my camper other than a tarp and a couple of led lights. Um, so I think I should be good. Um, but, uh, I still, my perfectionist tendencies and trying to make this a seamless experience when I when I go up there in terms of having all the creature comforts of home, I didn't realize what a high maintenance princess I actually am until I got in there and I go, oh, I didn't realize I, you know, I use this on a regular basis, I use that on a regular basis or whatever, you know, and I was just like, wow, this is a lot of the stuff I would normally not bother bringing with me on a trip somewhere. But if I really want to make this, you know, a home away from home,

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
there's There's like a lot of little things that I'm just like, wow, which is fine, which is fine. But it was, it's been, it's been eye opening and I've been keeping track of it as well because it isn't just like packing your stuff for a weekend. I really thought it kind of was going to be.

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
And I guess I could make it that way. Part of part of the nice thing of having your place is not having to pack everything up. You just show

Charles:
No,

Dan:
up there

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
and everything's

Charles:
exactly.

Dan:
there, right?

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
And so I've been keeping track of that for, you know, your, your RV freedom coach business, just to,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
so that, so it's, you know, a nice little list we can provide, you know, or you can provide people and I can pass along some things that you just don't like, don't think of. And so yeah, that's, that's been, that's been fun. I'm going to check that out and kind of hopefully not have to repair anything. Funny thing happened the other day is, you know, how we tried to change, change out the lock on the door.

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
And it was working fairly well when we left about a week later. I went and the old one that we put back in or that I put back in there now is not locking very easily at all. And

Charles:
Really?

Dan:
I mean, I'm literally having to slam it shut from that. Yeah. So something expanded, shifted or moved. And I'm

Charles:
Interesting.

Dan:
going to have to play with a little bit when I get back there because it almost is unclosable from the inside at this point.

Charles:
Holy

Dan:
So.

Charles:
cow.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
Did you send the automated

Dan:
I did.

Charles:
lock back? Yeah.

Dan:
I did. And they

Charles:
Did

Dan:
were

Charles:
they

Dan:
good

Charles:
say

Dan:
about

Charles:
anything?

Dan:
it. Nope.

Charles:
They didn't? Okay.

Dan:
I mean, I had to pay for shipping back, which was almost $30

Charles:
Right. Oh

Dan:
for

Charles:
yeah,

Dan:
that

Charles:
that is a heavy little

Dan:
$180

Charles:
chunk of metal.

Dan:
lock. I had to pay $30 to ship it back, but they refunded me the entire amount back without any problems. So,

Charles:
Okay.

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
That's a bummer. I'm sorry it's not working out for you. I don't know.

Dan:
I'll figure it out. We'll make it work. Even if I'm thinking of locksmithing there to fix

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
my problems, I think I could just jiggle it a little bit and maneuver it and just unscrew a few things and we'll figure it out. I'm not worried about it too much.

Charles:
Yeah, and I'll, uh, I mean, next time I head over there, I will bring my, uh, cordless driver because I remember just having to do all those adjustments with, uh, the manual screwdriver

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
made that job take so much longer than it would have. If I could have just,

Dan:
I did invest at least in a ratcheting screwdriver, so I'm going

Charles:
That's

Dan:
to play

Charles:
good.

Dan:
with that. I'm going to play with that today, but other than that, yeah.

Charles:
I think I am going to possibly invent today. I'm definitely going to invest in a torque wrench for lug nuts because I watched

Dan:
Mmm

Charles:
some video where it was saying how, you know, the, the lug nuts on the camper need to be between 90 and 120 foot pounds of torque.

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
And I have never, I have never done anything with changing attire other than just tightening it up until I couldn't tighten it anymore, then okay, I'm done. But apparently there's

Dan:
Whatever foot pounds that was, yeah, exactly.

Charles:
yeah, but apparently for safety, both on your car and on your RV, uh, there's supposed to be a certain amount of tightness that a lug nut is set to. And

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
if

Dan:
interesting.

Charles:
you don't have it correct, then bad things could potentially happen. I don't know.

Dan:
I learned something new today.

Charles:
Yeah, so I'm going to go to Harbor Freight, my favorite store for really dirt cheap tools, and get like a $16 torque wrench so that I can, I guess you like set it for how much you, how tight you want it to be, and then you pull it and then once it gets that tight, then it starts clicking kind of like when you set the drag or whatever you would call that on a drill, you know, so that

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
when it gets tight to a certain point, it clicks instead of still trying to strip the screw. So I think that's what I think that's how this thing's supposed to work. And I'm going to pick up one of those. I am also thinking, you know, I've been, I've been driving when I move my RV. I don't know if it's cause it's an RV and it's heavy and I only have two wheels, but it always looks like my tires are a little on the flat side. I don't know if they are or not, but I can buy a very small air compressor for like $59 and then. I don't have to stop at a gas station on my, when I'm moving my RV or anything like that. I can just plug it in and have my own compressed air that I can use to top off my tires and your tires every time before we move our campers.

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
So,

Dan:
nice.

Charles:
um,

Dan:
So do you just get brand new tires? So

Charles:
I did and they filled them

Dan:
one,

Charles:
up at the place

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
to 50 PSI. So I'm probably good for now. Yeah, maybe I'll just worry about buying this after the move because then it's

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
one less

Dan:
because

Charles:
thing I have to load into my camper.

Dan:
maybe it was just the fact your ties were sold, you know, maybe that's, that was

Charles:
That

Dan:
what's

Charles:
could

Dan:
going

Charles:
be

Dan:
on.

Charles:
it too. They could have been crappy tires. Yeah. And I mean, they, yeah. And they were old and they may not have been holding a, you know, holding pressure the way they were supposed to. So, but now, yeah, now

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
I got

Dan:
Hmm?

Charles:
three brand new ones

Dan:
Nice.

Charles:
that, yeah, I feel relatively sure I'll be okay. We'll see.

Dan:
Alright, yeah, well, we'll find it on Sunday.

Charles:
The other thing I need to buy today is a giant bin. So all the loose things in my camper, like my books and stuff on my desk

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
and

Dan:
good idea,

Charles:
just,

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
if I have just one big bin that I can put in the middle of the floor, uh, that will, um,

Dan:
Good tip, I'm gonna grab

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
one of those too, for mine, yeah.

Charles:
Yeah, just so that I don't have to worry about things moving around quite so much. And, uh, I need to either. My computer desk that I'm sitting at right now is just standing on five legs. It is not secured to the wall, which means before I move, I also need to sort of put it down on the floor, like lean it down sideways on the ground, um, so that it doesn't, uh, cause last time I moved. inertia did that for me instead of me doing it before the move. So I had taken

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
everything off of it, but then, you know, when I got to my destination, I opened the door and the, the desk is just laying sideways down on the floor. So

Dan:
Oh, alright.

Charles:
I've got to, uh, prepare

Dan:
Nice little

Charles:
for

Dan:
surprise.

Charles:
all that stuff today. And so it will definitely be a, um, I will, I will leverage my, uh, completely legitimate prescription for ADHD medication that I have

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
to, uh, to help me make a really real banger of a list with all the stuff I have to do today

Dan:
Hehehehehehe

Charles:
and Hammer through that list and get all this crap done so that when you show up Sunday morning We are ready to hitch up and hit the road mostly

Dan:
Sounds good.

Charles:
I will I will need your help getting my 120 pound generator up on the little shelf that It's going to sit on for the for the move. So

Dan:
Alright, no problem.

Charles:
But other than that, I'm not gonna make you do too much manual labor. So anyway, that's where we're at We're 15 minutes in Let's talk about this book that we've been covering forever and

Dan:
Hmm?

Charles:
what we are and are not gonna talk about today. So.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
We start the title of the next chapter is the power of sex. So we're cringey right out the door. I mean, it's,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you know. Cause yeah, it's not like, uh, I wonder if putting the word power and the word sex together could be, you know, a, a potentially hairy situation. I wonder if, you know, and I was telling you, we talked about this a bunch before we started recording. It's like, I resent the author of this book for his lack of nuance in many areas, and this one could be the worst where

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
it's like, I mean, I believe he is a trained psychologist. And he's just like, I'm just going to throw these words out here and, you know, let people just interpret them and, uh, Read into them however they want to. And Hey, it's not my job. I just wrote the book. So, you know, good luck, enjoy.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
And not knowing that there are regular guys with no training who might want to have a podcast about his material. And it's like, okay, now what are we supposed to do?

Dan:
He really wasn't thoughtful about

Charles:
No!

Dan:
writing this book, thinking about all these different situations. I feel like that was a big mess on his part.

Charles:
Yeah, I really, it really is a source of frustration for me. where he does seem to be just word vomiting and not feeling like there's any. I don't know. It's like, it's a question. How responsible is an author for what happens with people who, I mean, when you write a book, you're writing a book because you're like, I want my thoughts in other people's heads. That's the reason you write a book, right? It's the reason you start

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
a podcast. You're like, I want my thoughts to be in other people's heads. And

Dan:
Right. So I mean, I can answer that right on here on the

Charles:
Okay.

Dan:
page, page two. This is a work of nonfiction information contained within the book is strictly for educational purposes. If you wish to apply the ideas contained in this book, you are taking full responsibility for your actions. So clearly he did either speak to a lawyer or

Charles:
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Dan:
the publisher

Charles:
That's, that's what the, yeah.

Dan:
decided. Yeah. Right. That's I mean, you know, it's the disclaimer nobody reads. Right.

Charles:
Yeah, I, I'm looking at this one line, uh, where he says, one of the most common complaints leveled against men is that men have become too passive and submissive in bed. I wonder what one of the other most common complaints about men is like stop

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
raping people all the time,

Dan:
right.

Charles:
you know, stop, stop sexually

Dan:
All the

Charles:
assaulting

Dan:
time.

Charles:
women. Well, I mean, we've talked about this. There, there are like, there are like 5% of the guys that do a hundred

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
percent of the raping. Right.

Dan:
right.

Charles:
And.

Dan:
And unfortunately, right. And that's what's making the news, unfortunately. And so it's, you know, you're not

Charles:
I

Dan:
hearing.

Charles:
don't know

Dan:
You're

Charles:
that

Dan:
not

Charles:
it's...

Dan:
hearing. You know, they're not dragging guys are like, well, this guy was really lousy in bed because he didn't do anything and he made the woman take the lead. Right. Like you never hear. You never see a story about that. Right.

Charles:
Right. I mean, that

Dan:
You

Charles:
is

Dan:
know.

Charles:
still a problem. And that is, that is a thing

Dan:
Yes.

Charles:
that negatively impacts

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
people and relationships. But, you know, so is the other side of it where.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I mean, whenever you write a book or have a conversation. About men need to be more dominant. The, the piece of shit men that are out there are going to use that as a license to be the pieces of shit that they are. And. I, it's not my job to fix

Dan:
So I'm

Charles:
that,

Dan:
gonna offer

Charles:
but

Dan:
something

Charles:
it,

Dan:
to think about, right? So

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
how likely do you think these pieces of shit men who think about raping or have raped or whatever are actually gonna read or listen to a book, especially like this, I don't know.

Charles:
I don't

Dan:
I

Charles:
know,

Dan:
mean,

Charles:
man.

Dan:
they might,

Charles:
I'm

Dan:
but

Charles:
I troll, I troll some.

Dan:
you know.

Charles:
I have been on some subreddits that talk very much about men's sexual strategy, men's perspective on relationships. And these guys are out there and they have internet connections and they also probably buy books on Audible.

Dan:
Hmm,

Charles:
So

Dan:
maybe, maybe. Yeah.

Charles:
I don't know. I.

Dan:
Look, right. I mean, we get, yeah, we could sit here all day and guess and stuff. And I think but I agree with you. He does, you know, the words that he uses, the sentences and the ways he phrase things in this chapter are uncomfortable because I don't feel he did a good job with. I guess setting the environment up properly in terms of the mindset. and being a little bit more specific about the situations. And I think also the title, The Power of Sex, what I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, to me, I kind of take that as what sex means in a relationship and how powerful it is once you have sex with a woman. what it means in terms of, because he kind of gets into that a little bit in terms of the biology

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
and all of the neurochemicals that happen in both brains of human beings when we have sex. And so, but yeah, it's, using those specific words definitely raises an eyebrow and makes you want to dig in a little bit. And we talked about that this morning where I feel like if he had just changed the order of the chapters around a little bit. So the one that comes to two chapters afterwards, the lead her into attraction chapter where he really kind of talks about, you know, being playful, kind of talking about the difference between being dominant and being aggressive. And, you know, and just, you know, the negative consequences of being too aggressive and he gets a little bit of nuance of what in terms of what taking the lead and being dominant means. I feel

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
like that definitely should have come before this chap.

Charles:
Yeah, I would agree with you. And you know, the other thought I'm having is. And this is a thought that, you know, when, when operating at my best, I have this thought frequently, which is how much of my discomfort with this is about my own shit and how, you know, why, why is this you know, worrying me slash annoying me slash feeling complicated in ways that maybe it's not because, you know, uh, as a, as a recovering nice guy, it's like, yeah, sex and feelings are two areas that I have some discomfort with. And so what is the, what, what is feeling so triggering about this chapter to me is, is everything he's saying actually okay, and I'm just having a weird reaction to it or is it not okay? And.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
my own weirdness and my own idiosyncrasies and my own personality traits are just firing off in a way that somebody else is, even though there's objectively troublesome stuff in this chapter, I'll just, my detector is just more finely tuned to it than somebody else's might be. I don't

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
know which of those it is. I have no idea. And I don't know how to get that answer. I

Dan:
I

Charles:
mean,

Dan:
think...

Charles:
I could ask Renata to read the chapter and tell me, but then she's

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
gonna charge me.

Dan:
You know, I think, I think, um, most of it for all of us is our own, all we have is our own brains

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
and experience to interpret

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
anything. Right. So yeah, it's each of us and you know, we happen to have, you know, some similar thoughts about this, you know, so, um, it that kind of complicates things and, and I think can also make us think, Hey, you know, this is universally not. good or uncomfortable

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
or whatever that is because we happen to agree on a lot of these points that make us uncomfortable. And maybe that's because we both were nice guys or, you know, recovering nice guys, I should say, right. And

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
maybe that plays into a factor and I'm sure it does at some level. So, you know, I think, yeah, you know, I think it's difficult to say that this is, you know, universally bad.

Charles:
Right. Yeah, it's I mean, it's hard to say that anything is, but

Dan:
to dumb it down.

Charles:
right. And. Yeah, I don't know. Getting into the weeds on it though is just not something I feel ready to do yet.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
And you know, it's, again, it's almost like I'm surprised that anybody would feel comfortable getting into the weeds in some of this stuff and saying, you know, telling other men, hey guys, if you want a woman to love you and stay with you, here are the things you need to do. to her slash with her when you're having sex with her. It's like,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
that seems like it requires a, not only a certain amount of education, but I would also say a certain amount of hubris to say, I'm gonna be the guy that tells you, here's what you ought to be doing.

Dan:
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Charles:
and

Dan:
And it's again, I feel, you know. I think, I think a lot of this doesn't necessarily apply to every, obviously there's nothing that applies to every single person. Let's just, you know, just put that out on the table, right? It's impossible to say, yeah, this is a universal rule applies to everybody in every situation.

Charles:
Of course.

Dan:
And I think where, you know, you and I kind of get all uncomfortable is I think we wrestle with that a little bit. I feel like, um, I know I do at least where it's, uh, maybe it's my IT engineering background, my nice guy-ness, my perfectionism, whatever it is, where it's just like,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
I want things that are immutable laws, right? That you're in like

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
recipes to follow that basically are universal principles. And that does not, is certainly not the case here. Another, you know, example, just a little bit more of a, a little bit more of a painful example or a sensitive example. Um, but, uh, yeah. So do we want it? Do you want to get into maybe the, the leader into attraction chapter a little bit and then consider, uh,

Charles:
Uhh,

Dan:
talking

Charles:
let's

Dan:
about

Charles:
see...

Dan:
it or, or do we want to go into never give your love too easily, which is the one in between.

Charles:
Well, never. I mean, we can, we can cover, never give your love too easily real quick

Dan:
Sure.

Charles:
because we have been, we have been talking about this for pretty much the whole book, which is do not over invest in people, do not interact with people at a level of intimacy and a level of familiarity that is not appropriate given for, given what your actual relationship with that person is. And, and he restates it. throughout the book in multiple ways and multiple times, which, you know, it's, it is basically saying, you know, do not, do not be the one to push for more relationship than actual relationship exists with someone. And in, in this, in this particular one page, one and a half page chapter, he's basically saying that when a woman is ready for a an escalated level of commitment or level of relationship with you, she will make that known to you. And if you are the one that takes the lead to say, you know, hey, I'm really enjoying my time with you and I'm not going to date anybody else and I don't want you to date anybody else either. Then they're in a traditionally masculine feminine relationship that will take the man down a peg. If he is the one to you know, essentially blink first when it comes to commitment in that way, you know? And,

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
uh, and I tend, I tend to agree with him.

Dan:
it's interesting that he talks about some research that came out of the Journal of Social Psychology and found that out of 172 participants, took men anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks to fall in love, whereas the women took no less than a couple of months to fall in love. That's interesting. I'm curious, Charles, any thoughts on your side about why the... average guy tends to rush things when it comes to falling in love and wanting that, you know, I'm not going to say that relationship, but saying I am in love, which obviously is some is a very, it's based on not a lot of information, not a lot of time, not a lot of experience. And therefore I feel is not authentic versus why a woman tends to kind of at the beginning, at least seem to take a more logical approach, if you will,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
to love.

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
Because she's basing

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
it on actual reality. And men, I feel, typically will get in their heads and have these fantasies and draw out these scenarios that haven't existed and don't exist and end up falling in love with these ideas and these fantasies that they have in their minds of spending time with the world. or building a life with a woman that hasn't happened yet. So I just wonder what any thoughts on why that happens or?

Charles:
Well, the good news is I think I have it completely figured out.

Dan:
Okay, all

Charles:
The

Dan:
right.

Charles:
the bad news is I think I have it completely figured out. So.

Dan:
Oh, interesting. All right.

Charles:
Um, my, my intuition tells me that the reason it happens that way is because getting it wrong is so much more expensive for women than it is for men. If

Dan:
Hmm.

Charles:
a man chooses and mates with the wrong woman and let's say, you know, in, in very, in very old fashioned, brutal terms, all right. mates with the wrong woman and the result is a sick weak child that will probably not last long enough to pass his genes on, then the man just leaves and he goes

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
and gets somebody else pregnant. Where

Dan:
That's a good point.

Charles:
if that happens to a woman, if she chooses the wrong man and makes a baby with him and that baby is sick or weak or he doesn't have the ability to protect them or provide for them that she thought that he did, then her whole life is basically screwed.

Dan:
Yeah, that

Charles:
So

Dan:
makes sense.

Charles:
yeah, so she, so that's why I believe women have to be more discerning with who they fall in love and then consequently reproduce with than men do because for, you know, X number of millennia men have had the option of, okay, well, I picked the wrong one. So I'll just, you know, go over the next village and get somebody else pregnant.

Dan:
So with the advent of birth control and abortions, how do you feel like that has affected women in general or in society you think it's had any type of effect in terms of making, you know,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
helping women feel a little bit less, I guess, at risk for having their whole life fucked up, let's say, right?

Charles:
Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think with birth control in particular in what was it, the fifties or the sixties, yeah, women have the option now for more casual sexual relationships than they would have before. And

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
you know, many choose to take advantage of that fact, many choose not to. biological drivers have not changed since the 1950s. You know, you and I were talking about this yesterday. I mean, our brains are pretty much the same as they were 100,000 years ago. And so while culture changes and social norms change, you know, human biology takes a lot longer to change. So I think the way that, you know, a lady's brain and a lady's heart If you want to get metaphysical about it, the way they work when it comes to pairing up and bonding with men, we're still, the software

Dan:
It doesn't matter.

Charles:
is new, but the hardware is pretty old.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter the external support resources that are available, it doesn't change our biology, yeah.

Charles:
So that is the answer to why I think that they're able to go longer before falling in love than men are.

Dan:
Makes sense.

Charles:
But again, as I often like to say, I am just an uneducated genius with lots of opinions. So take it for what it's worth.

Dan:
Yeah, no, I think I think that's goodness. It's a it's a good reminder for men to you know that it's not we're not wired to be patient when it comes to you know, falling in love and you know, desiring a woman and things like that. So so yeah, guys, it's gonna be uncomfortable. And I always find that if you go into a situation with a proper mindset, knowing that things are going to be a little bit tough or difficult, it's a little bit easier to,

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
you know, to handle. So Keep that

Charles:
And

Dan:
in

Charles:
also

Dan:
mind.

Charles:
keep in mind, you know, our male physiology has not caught up either. You know,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
we, we can have, especially the younger we are, we can have these urges to go out there and, you know, fall in love quickly and have sex with women as quickly as we can, thinking that our bodies will tell us and behave as if just moving to the next village and getting somebody else pregnant is an option. But with

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
DNA and paternity tests and child support and, and courts, you know, it's not that it's, it's not as simple for us as we like to act like it is. And so,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
you know, our, our brain is still willing to fall in love with a woman after a couple of days or a few weeks acting as if we have the option of, if it doesn't work out, just go start a family somewhere else. It's like, no, we don't have that choice either. So, um, yeah, we're, we're. we're both kind of, both men and women are kind of working off of signals from our body that don't really reflect the new reality of what it is to live in, in the West in 2023.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
So yeah, you gotta kind of... Yeah, you gotta, gotta actively work on getting that newer part of your brain, the front part involved in your decision-making because if you leave it all up to the back part that, uh, we share with the lizards and the snakes, then we're gonna not get the results out of life that we want.

Dan:
You know, and that being said, it's just another reason to practice some sort of relaxation techniques, uh,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
such as, you know, meditation, journaling, walking outside, exercising those things, because the more stressed we are, the more we will operate purely from the lizard part of our brain, the primitive

Charles:
Exactly.

Dan:
part of our brain. And, because we're already in a heightened physical state that will absolutely short circuit the bigger outer part of our brain that requires more energy to process and think through things. And in that state, our body and our brain, I should say our brain really doesn't wanna expend any more energy than it has to. So all those difficult decisions and you know, nuance that we have to think through that takes energy, that takes calories, that takes, you know, you know, sugar from our blood to do that. And if we're not, and if we're already in a, you know, in a heightened state of arousal in terms of just being stressed out, it's impossible or very difficult. You're just making the job that much more difficult to make good decisions. So absolutely

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
schedule some time for yourself. Uh, we recommend usually some warnings. Um, to kind of set the day and set your intentions for the day. Like we've been showing on a little bit of our Instagram feed as well for Mindfully Masculine. So that will help with just about everything guys.

Charles:
Yeah, it's definitely the human mind on autopilot where we are not taking any action to direct our attention or our thoughts or our feelings where we're just running on autopilot all the time. It's like you, it's very hard to predict and, and makes positive results happen when you're not doing anything to. exercise your attention and your thinking and your feelings. I mean, you got to pay attention to these things and you got to make decisions and take action because otherwise, yeah, you're just a meat robot that is just living out the programming.

Dan:
Right. So the difference between reacting to environment, to your environment versus being proactive and, and purposely moving through your environment, your day.

Charles:
Right. And, and there are certain things that are your only response is going to be to react to them. I mean, there are certain things you can't plan for, you can't get ready for. It's just, it's just about having, you know, that disciplined mind that's ready to go when those things happen. Because,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
you know, at when, when an emergency breaks out or, you know, uh, you get a. a diagnosis or there's a breakup or a death in your family or something, you lose your job. It's like in the moment that happens, all you have is the mind that you've prepared to deal with these things when they occur. And so, you know, it's like we talk about with when it comes to. Being in a coffee shop or, you know, you're at the store and you see the girl of your dreams. And you've spent a whole life of never talking to strangers, never socially engaging with people. And you're going to think, oh, OK, well, when that finally happens, I'll step up and I'll do what I have to do to introduce myself to her. It's like,

Dan:
Cause it'll

Charles:
no,

Dan:
be,

Charles:
you won't.

Dan:
it'll be, it'll be right. And that's the funny thing. Cause you think at that point, it'll be worth it to be uncomfortable, right? Because

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
that's, that's worth it. That's worth it because the girl of your dream, meanwhile, you know, you've got no experience doing that with anybody. And

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
you know, the ironic thing is, you know, you have to, people will again, put off being uncomfortable and dis, you know, and, to for lots of reasons, we don't like being uncomfortable. And a lot of times we want some sort of reward for being uncomfortable. And a lot of that is your mindset as well in terms of just getting out and being more social and being comfortable with everybody in your environment rather than waiting for this big payoff, so to speak.

Charles:
Yeah, I mean, it really, it really does seem, you know, as not, not having a mindfulness practice or a gratitude practice or any of those things. It's as silly as, you know, I'm not going to go to the gym and lift heavy things because, you know, if at some point a lawnmower falls on my kid, I'll just rely on my adrenaline to make me strong enough to lift it off of him. And, you know, it'll, it'll just work out, you know,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
it's, it's like, it's essentially a belief in magic. where, you know, thinking, you know, I'll, I'll just, if an emergency comes up or again, I see that pretty girl, or I need to lift that lawnmower off my kid. I'll just count on it working out and you know, things, things will turn out for the best.

Dan:
You know, and that's the dangerous thing about, you know, consuming too much television and movies and fiction stories because

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
those ideas, they get popped into your head. You see that happen

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
and you think, oh, all right, even though you know it's a story or a movie and it's a superhero, so it's not real or whatever, you know, our subconscious doesn't necessarily always remember that. There's a reason it's called a television program. Literally, you are programming your brain. So take

Charles:
That's

Dan:
care

Charles:
true.

Dan:
of what information you are consuming and it's almost impossible to not consume some of that, that fiction, those stories and things. So you need to consciously then reprogram with other things.

Charles:
Yeah. And, you know, and, and we, we do it all. I mean, I've, I've done it myself with, you know, um, either my meditation practice or getting into shape or even therapy. It's like, you know, yeah, I should be in therapy, but you know, I feel like everything will, uh, things will work out the way that they're supposed to work out, you know, when I'll get into a relationship and I'll, I'll figure it out or I'll get back into therapy. Once I. meet the girl I want to be with for the rest of my life. And, you know, but it's like, we, we always think that I'll just act on this later and it'll be okay. And then at some point we look back and say, I didn't act on that when I should have, and it did not go okay. And now,

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
now here I am. And, and what do I do? It's like, well, you know, the, the best time to plant the trees 20 years ago. And the second best time is right now. So. You start now is what you do and don't count on things just working out and you're not having to work at it or work for it. So whatever that thing is that you're putting off that you think is going to work itself out, Dan and I are here to tell you it's not going to work itself out. It's only going to work itself out when you care about it enough to work it.

Dan:
Yeah. And part of that is if you had just haven't, so a lot of us go around and I'm absolutely guilty of this where, you know, we get an inkling of something we need to fix or change and we don't follow through. We don't do much about it. And I think that's because we haphazardly kind of go through life. And if we're lucky enough to see or experience or hear about consequences, good or bad that are extreme enough for us to make it a priority to get uncomfortable and change and work on those things about our life, then we're lucky, right? But a lot of us don't have that, don't see those bad examples or the good examples of all the good things that could happen by going to therapy or all the really bad things that happen when you don't go to therapy. experienced and remembered and top of mind, we're not going to want to get uncomfortable enough to go through therapy, for example. Right. And so, you know, the only thing I could say is if you've got an inkling of something that you want to work on, um, or that you feel like you want to change or whatever, then do yourself some justice and program yourself in terms of research. Hey, you know, what are some things, what are some benefits of doing this? What are some negative consequences of not doing this? And dig in a little bit so you can kind of find, hey, yeah, this might be, just educate yourself about that thing so that it might motivate you or you might hear it in a certain way. So you might actually take that effort to go ahead and do that. I feel like it's naive to just dismiss something that, you know, maybe somebody's mentioned to you or that you had an inkling about without having all the information. So do yourself a service and just get a little bit more information about that and be able to make a better decision, right?

Charles:
Yeah, and look, I wish that, uh, I wish every significant period of personal growth in my life didn't happen on the heels of a catastrophe. Yet here

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
we are. That is, that is the only way that it happens for me. I've never just gone

Dan:
You're not alone,

Charles:
to an inspiring,

Dan:
dude.

Charles:
I've never just gone to an inspiring speech and decided I'm going to turn my life around it.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
No, it's bad. Well, I fucked this up and now I don't know what to do next, so I guess I better look for some good advice.

Dan:
And unfortunately, you're not alone. I think most of us operate that.

Charles:
Yeah, I just, I wish there was some way that I could help people not have to go through it that way.

Dan:
Well, that's what

Charles:
But,

Dan:
you're doing

Charles:
you know,

Dan:
right now. I feel

Charles:
I mean,

Dan:
like

Charles:
yeah, I guess,

Dan:
this is what you're doing here on the podcast.

Charles:
and even if,

Dan:
You're sharing

Charles:
even if that's

Dan:
this.

Charles:
not what I'm doing, you know, even, you know, even

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
if we are just, even if the best case scenarios, we're just putting out almost a hundred episodes that when somebody does fall off the rails, you know, we've got it. We've got a library out there that they can. pick through and see if maybe they can, you know, we can be in the right place at the right time for them when they are going through it. Um, even if that's

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
as good as

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
it gets, then fine, you know, but, uh, I, I would love to be able to adopt a, and I guess I've done this in some ways with my health and other things that aren't as important or don't feel as important. Incremental improvement is tough for me. It's almost like, no, I need, I need the life changing, you know,

Dan:
Dude, we were

Charles:
road

Dan:
just talking

Charles:
to

Dan:
about that yesterday with you and your yoga. And it was just like,

Charles:
I know,

Dan:
we just,

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
it was so funny. And it's so funny, you know, it's really funny to watch you do this because we did tiny habits together and you know,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
you, but at least this way, but you know what the difference that I see though is you in the past, you would fight me on that. Like I was like, you're like, cause like, yeah, you're

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
going to do yoga. You're going to do yoga every day. You haven't done yoga in like what a year or something like that. And then

Charles:
Oh,

Dan:
you were

Charles:
plus,

Dan:
going to

Charles:
yeah.

Dan:
do, yeah, you're going to do hot yoga. On top of that, first of all, every day, hot power

Charles:
Hot power

Dan:
yoga. Right,

Charles:
yoga.

Dan:
okay, okay. Every day for five days, right, and a week. And I was just like, what, are you? I'm like, I, you know, but you know what? You, in the past, you would definitely fight me more on it and you'd justify

Charles:
Of course.

Dan:
it a lot more and you'd be like pout about it and stuff. But

Charles:
Oh yeah.

Dan:
that's the difference though, is yesterday, I mentioned that you're like, oh, you're right. And it was just like, it was, you're like, oh, you're right. We're not doing this in a tiny habits way. We're not doing this in a smart way. And you were immediately willing to, you know, dial it back. And I, you know, I feel like that, that is, you need to look at yourself and go, that's, that's huge progress right there for sure. You know, that you, it's coming around quicker to go, okay, look, this is not realistic. Um, and, and you potentially then saved some frustration, saved some negative self talk because you were you probably, you know,

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
if you're set

Charles:
oh

Dan:
the

Charles:
for

Dan:
bar

Charles:
sure.

Dan:
at that level

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
and you don't achieve it, which is fucking impossible, you know, you know, so, so I think what I've seen in you personally is that you've, you've been, yeah, you're more willing to dial it back, even though your ambitions are still really high when it comes to this stuff. Yeah,

Charles:
Yeah.

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
Well, thank you. I mean, again, and it's more about the system than it is about, you know, some kind of a. I didn't grow a new organ that, you know, feeds out reasonable chemicals into my brain.

Dan:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Charles:
What I did was I surround myself with good books and friends who are experts of these things and give myself no other choice except to. I mean, cause again, the, the option is either I take your advice or I accept that at some point you will have, and I told you so that you will

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
probably never use, but just the fact that you're walking around with a holster that hasn't, I told you so in it is not okay with me. So I can't let you just have

Dan:
I'm gonna

Charles:
that.

Dan:
sit.

Charles:
So instead of that, I have to listen to you and I have to take your advice.

Dan:
Hey, however, however it has to happen, however it has to happen.

Charles:
I cannot tolerate people walking around with a loaded I

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
told you so gun.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
So I have to take that away from them by following their advice and doing what they tell me to do. I

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
do that with Renata all the time.

Dan:
Oh wow, that's funny.

Charles:
Yeah, I can't. Yeah. It's like, I have to take her advice because I can't let her bring up, which she would never do in three months. I can't, well, maybe she would have her say, Hey, remember three months ago when I told you, you should have listened to me. And then I'd have to be like, yeah, you're right. I should have. No, I'd rather just listen to her today so that I don't give her that opportunity three months from now.

Dan:
It's all about denying satisfaction for others.

Charles:
Exactly, exactly. I would rather see someone else lose than see myself win.

Dan:
Oh, that's his- that's freaking hysterical. I'm gonna blow both

Charles:
Alright.

Dan:
of our candles out. All right, so. Hehehehehehe.

Charles:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, instead of burning at both ends, we'll just both be in the dark.

Dan:
Um...

Charles:
All right. Let's see what the next thing is. All right. We talked about, again, this constant theme of never give your love too easily, which is, you know, something else that you and I have talked about, which is, you know, when you settle down and you take on a girlfriend or a wife, it seems like the success of that relationship will be impacted based on how hard you both had to work for each other.

Dan:
Mmm.

Charles:
If the two of you fall into a relationship where you kind of, neither of you had any other options, so you just kind of, you know, found each other and you know, you went from not having much of a social life or a dating life to pairing up with this one person and now you both only have each other. Those, in my experience, seem to be the relationships that are at the most risk for... trouble down the road where,

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
you know, the, the people who, the people who have had the people who have a lot of options and have had a fair amount of dating experience, yet they both make the choice to choose each other. That seems to be, that seems to feel a bit more real than two people with very little experience and very little options, just kind of falling into a relationship. Because at some point, one of them is going to start feeling like they have other options

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
and that's going to, you know, the incentive to stick with that relationship is going to be strained.

Dan:
I know for me, I've, you know, for most of my relationships when I was younger, that was the case. But in a, in a different respect where both of us would, um, give up and make a lot, way too many sacrifices to other parts of our life, whether that was family commitments or friend commitments or, you know, you know, just anything that didn't involve spending time with the other person. And so. that didn't work. It didn't, it didn't work out well for us because yeah, we were spending way too much time together and we also gave up the other parts of our lives that made us attractive to the other person to begin with. And

Charles:
Right. Yeah.

Dan:
that was the mistake that I made when I was younger.

Charles:
Yeah. And I've made that mistake too. It's like, you know, you, you build this fun and exciting life as a single guy, partially in the hopes that you will attract a good partner. And then you attract that good partner and you let go of all those fun and exciting things you were into to

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
spend all your time sitting on her couch, playing on your phone while some TV shows on, on in the background.

Dan:
Oof.

Charles:
And then you're both boring and not exciting anymore. And you start feeling like, oh, is this what couple life is supposed to be? This doesn't feel like it's, this isn't lightening my fire and setting off the chemicals that it used to.

Dan:
Right.

Charles:
And then

Dan:
Yeah,

Charles:
you start thinking,

Dan:
so.

Charles:
maybe this isn't for me. Maybe this person's not for me. Maybe yada, yada. And... And that's, you know, the most important thing that we'll talk about in some, some of the chapters coming up is making the conscious choice to inject some space and distance in your relationship. Um, and it's really space and distance of every kind, physically, emotionally, um, sexually, I mean, there, there needs to. You don't miss what you're constantly surrounded by. You miss, you miss what's not always around.

Dan:
And part of that too is being playful, having fun things to do with each other.

Charles:
Right.

Dan:
He gets into that, and we'll talk about that in the next episode, but the leader into attraction part. He talks about being playful and maintaining that sense of playfulness, and what that signals biologically to women. when a guy can be playful, what that means. And yeah, I think we can maybe get into that on the next episode. And I think that would be something fun to talk about.

Charles:
Yeah, we're at a pretty good point, I think, to break on this one. And so again, guys, we will, Dan and I will talk about sex at some point in more detail than we already have. Um,

Dan:
We will.

Charles:
I don't know. Well, yes, we will. Well,

Dan:
That's

Charles:
we'll,

Dan:
a big promise. Okay.

Charles:
we'll figure out something. Um, maybe we can find some expert to interview and put all the responsibility

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
on them.

Dan:
I

Charles:
Um,

Dan:
like that idea past the buck.

Charles:
yeah. Exactly. That's the buck. Because otherwise all, all Dan and I could do is be like, look, we don't have training in this. All we can do is share our personal experience. This is what has worked for us. And then that essentially turns into a big fat disclosure fest of me and Dan telling you exactly what we like and what we do in the bedroom.

Dan:
Right, yeah,

Charles:
It's like,

Dan:
we gotta get

Charles:
you know,

Dan:
some, good.

Charles:
and I don't want to do that. It's like, you know, the key to a healthy masculine sex life. is to have some guy in a clown costume standing in the corner of the room while you have sex with your girlfriend. Well, wait a second, that sounds really specific, Charles. Well, never mind.

Dan:
Oh,

Charles:
Forget

Dan:
yeah.

Charles:
I brought it up.

Dan:
We need to get somebody out here who's willing to go, I am the buck.

Charles:
Exactly.

Dan:
Have you been

Charles:
Yeah,

Dan:
watching Billions,

Charles:
so

Dan:
the new season?

Charles:
no, I am

Dan:
That's what,

Charles:
once

Dan:
oh, that's what that's from, by

Charles:
I

Dan:
the

Charles:
am.

Dan:
way. I thought you'd get that.

Charles:
I am once no, I am one season back. So the

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
season where Damien Lewis was not there and it was Corey stole where he was like the main billionaire. I have not watched that season and I haven't started the next season, but I am going

Dan:
Oh.

Charles:
back to New York City soon. So I will have to get caught up before I go to New York because

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
New York and billions go together in a way that I absolutely love. So

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
I definitely have to get caught up. I,

Dan:
Okay. So,

Charles:
I have downloaded the whole season and I am ready

Dan:
okay.

Charles:
to, well, the last season and finished binging that I, the last season was the one where, uh, whatever that guy's name is, he basically decides he wants the Olympics in New York city. Right.

Dan:
Yeah, yes, yep.

Charles:
Okay. So I watched like one or two episodes of that season and then I didn't finish it. So that I got to finish that season. And then I got a. And Damien Lewis is back this last season, right?

Dan:
He is.

Charles:
Excellent. He's, I mean, I like, I like the actor that, you know, replaced him, but, I mean, Damien Lewis is Damien Lewis, right? So

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
it's, you know, Bobby Axelrod's Bobby Axelrod.

Dan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there's a line in this season where, you know, they're talking about one of the presidents and he said, you know, the buck stops here

Charles:
Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt

Dan:
and

Charles:
said

Dan:
told

Charles:
that, I think.

Dan:
me, well, right. And then and then the new billionaire, he says, you know, I am the buck. Right. And so it's good.

Charles:
He's

Dan:
It's

Charles:
a good,

Dan:
good.

Charles:
he's a good character.

Dan:
Yeah.

Charles:
Again, they,

Dan:
Mm hmm.

Charles:
they were in, they were in a pinch trying to replace Bobby, but, uh, I like that

Dan:
No,

Charles:
actor

Dan:
I think they did a good

Charles:
and I

Dan:
job.

Charles:
like that character. Yeah. And, but if they're both in it this season, I'm real excited about that.

Dan:
Yep. Yeah.

Charles:
Oh, that's good. That's good stuff. Uh, I'm glad you brought it up because I, I am definitely, uh, Sunday night when I am moved into my new place and ready to relax and kind of chill out. I

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
will turn my air conditioner all the way down. I will take some NyQuil and I will try to stay awake for as many episodes of billions as I possibly can.

Dan:
Good, good, sounds like a plan.

Charles:
Oh, one thing I wanted to mention real quick. I have not gotten into it yet, but I did purchase a new gratitude journal. Um, that is made pacifically for men. It is simply called gratitude journal for men. I got it on Amazon for like 17 bucks.

Dan:
Okay.

Charles:
And, uh, it is a, a good looking book that, uh, I will enjoy starting to fill out. And the reason I got it was, um, I believe it was the dating essentials for men frequently asked questions, audiobook that you and I listened to where I'm pretty sure Glover in that book, uh, reiterates the importance of a gratitude practice. And so, uh, I knew, I know that's something I have to do.

Dan:
Mm-hmm.

Charles:
And I just, uh, you know, buying a new, a new book or a new gadget helps motivate me to actually take the leap. So it. it is one of my you know, three or four journals or meditation books that I keep on my desk and I am I don't endorse using the beginning of the year the month the week any of that as a Okay, I'm finally going to start this good habit blah But today's September 1st, and I'm gonna start it today

Dan:
Sounds good. We can get into that a little bit more in the next episode.

Charles:
Alright, sounds good. I will chat with you later, Dan.

Dan:
All right.

Charles:
Thanks for your neuroplasticity and emotional flexibility while we covered this weird chapter.

Dan:
My pleasure.

Charles:
Sort of. Alright, talk to you later.

Dan:
All right, bye bye.

Charles:
It says stop.