Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men

The Myths of Unconditional Love and Relaxing Baths

January 15, 2024 This show supports and encourages men who strive to level-up their lives as we share books, media, and personal stories on mental health and well-being. Challenges in your personal or professional life? We deliver the tips and tools that truly help. Episode 113
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
The Myths of Unconditional Love and Relaxing Baths
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever wondered if unconditional love is truly possible, or just a beautifully wrapped myth? Charles and Dan crack open this topic and so much more on our latest Mindfully Masculine podcast. From the unexpected social connections made through pickleball to the crucial role of self-care in the modern man's life, we share our personal anecdotes and insights. The conversation then deepens as we scrutinize the concept of unconditional love, questioning its existence and the potential harm in expecting love without conditions from anyone, be it our partners, children, or pets.

Picture this: you're knee-deep in a relationship where you're giving it your all, but something feels off. That's neediness knocking at your door, and it's a tell-tale sign of an imbalance in the give-and-take dynamic. We dissect this tricky subject, reflecting on how social media skews our love expectations and the importance of a balanced social life. And for those moments when you need to recharge? We'll guide you through the self-care maze, weighing the pros and cons of baths and showers, even invoking the 'Iceman' Wim Hof to discuss the invigorating effects of cold showers.

As the curtain falls on our podcast episode, we leave no stone unturned, diving into the finer points of skincare with essential oils and colloidal oatmeal, and sharing personal experiences that blend the reflective with the practical. Setting realistic expectations for love and relationships, we conclude with heartfelt advice on maintaining effort in partnerships and embracing self-kindness. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to Mindfully Masculine, this episode promises to resonate with your quest for a more introspective and balanced masculine journey.

"Tamborine" by Chris Rock
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Charles:

Hey everybody, Charles here, Welcome back to another episode of the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This week, Dan and I continue discussing the book Self-Care for Men and we'll cover the topics of baths, hot tubs and showers. Before that, we will do our usual updates and chit chat and then we'll start with a discussion of unconditional love and whether it exists and if men, women, children or dogs should ever expect to give or receive truly unconditional love. Please do as a favor and subscribe or follow us on YouTube or your chosen podcast app. Just look for Mindfully Masculine. Thanks and enjoy. Good morning, Charles. How are you? I'm well, Dan, Thank you. How are you I?

Dan:

am also doing well. What's new with you? It's new with me. Let's see, here Got some work done at the house. I was pretty happy about that, how that turned out Actually the contractor to show up.

Charles:

Landscaping is looking real good outside.

Dan:

I'm excited for it. It's been a long time coming. I agree it looked like weeds. Ouch. I remember you walked by and you're like oh, I clipped some of the bushes so it wouldn't impede the entrance. I appreciated that, but you shouldn't have to do that anymore.

Charles:

I definitely don't want it anymore.

Dan:

There's nothing to trim now, yeah no, I was definitely happy about that. Actually went to another pickleball lesson last week. Oh, you did.

Dan:

Yeah, oh nice, how'd that go, yeah it went really well, actually Not as smooth as the one that we went to In Holly Hill. Yeah, it was down in the Nona area. There's a USTA official place there. So, yeah, they acted fancy a little bit too. They didn't provide any equipment. You don't have your own paddles. It was a 101 class, of course. You don't have it. So they had some extras there that made you feel guilty about borrowing, right, right, and they weren't as clear and we only got like 60 minutes of OK instruction. So what we got at Holly Hill was at Picton. It was much better actually.

Dan:

Okay, yeah, I thought about it, but I forgot how much fun.

Charles:

it is yeah, and our our old campground had a court there that we'd ever even used oh, I didn't even know. And then my one in my one in Sorento also had like multiple courts, and so I've got the equipment, I've got the shoes, I've got everything. Oh, that's great. You got the shoes too. I think I might have donated those shoes, though they weren't super comfortable. So I might. I might be, you know, stuck using my trail runners or my my Reebok tennis shoes, but that's fine. I mean, I'm not playing any pickleball, but it is fun. Yeah, I'd like to get back into it. And yeah, now you've, you've got another doubles partner, so I might need to find me one of those and we could play against each other.

Dan:

Yeah, so there is a community, not that's kind of also down in that like known area there's a bunch of free pickleball courts and they every evening there's a bunch of people that show up there and it's a real social game. They just if you're standing around like, hey, come on, play with us and they'll do three, they'll do three people on a court and you can like rotate through or do singles.

Dan:

Everybody there and there nobody is unbelievable and so good. That's like. I'm not going to bother with beginners. They realize most people are starting out. So did that the other night. That's fine and that was. That was a lot of fun. People are really cool. Got added to a what's up group for for the social pickleball yeah group and then started getting spam calls not long after that. So I don't know, maybe there's an intro Maybe.

Dan:

But have you ever been over to the keg? It's a I guess it's a social to a social to the keg social. So they've got ping pong tables there, they've got a bowling alley, they've got axe throwing.

Charles:

It's a bar and like Nona, like area? Yeah, okay, yeah, I've never been. Yeah, it's great. Do you remember like what exit off of? I imagine 417, not like what's in our Coosie or the I don't remember. Okay, I will look it up, though I like places like that, yeah lots of stuff to do.

Dan:

It was great.

Charles:

Okay, cool, I'll check that out. Yeah, I went to a dinner party last night, thrown by our friend Chelsea at Soto singles. We met her at a pair event months and months ago, right, and she's got a nice, you still have your pairing, by the way.

Charles:

I have it but I don't ever wear it. Yeah, I wear these other. I've got this other ring I got from Enzo rings. They make silicone rings nice ones, yeah, and this was one that they it's like purplish blue and there's waves on it and it was part of a fundraising thing for Maui after the wildfires.

Dan:

Oh nice.

Charles:

So I like the look of it, I like the cause, so I went and got that and I've just been wearing that now. So, yeah, I'm not wearing. The pairing is such low quality to get stretched out so easy and you would think for what they're charging.

Dan:

But yeah, so I don't wear that one, nobody outside of that pair ring event had ever said hey, what is that ugly green thing attached to your finger?

Charles:

Yeah, and so it's hard for me to get excited about wearing that. But anyway, I went to the dinner last night and it was at Cafe Trastevere in downtown Orlando, in an area that I've learned is called the North Quarter of downtown. Oh, that's what Chelsea said. So, okay, she wouldn't seems to know. But, yeah, had had a great meal.

Charles:

The Italian food there is so good. They they had family style appetizers of Caprese salad, so I had a nice little bit of Muzel and some tomato and some balsamic, and the tomato is pretty good. I liked it. It was one of the one of the good versions of Caprese, all right. And bruschetta, as Giada De Laurentiis would say. How was bruschetta? It was also good. The problem I had with the bruschetta was the garlic and the. The seasoning was amazing. The bread was very toasty, very crunchy, and it's like you bite into an explosion of crumbs just flies out of your mouth, which it's. It's a hard. It's hard to eat a lot of Italian food without making a mess. And so, yeah, but then for the entree I decided to go with the tortellini, with peas and pancetta, and oh, it was so good. It was going to be between that and the vodka penne and I decided to go with the tortellini and it was. It was real yummy Nice.

Dan:

What was the tortellini?

Charles:

Cheese filled with cheese, but then there was pancetta and peas in the in the dish with it. Well, carbonara kind of, was so good, right. And then, after I finished that off, got a piece of piece of bread and use that to soak up the, the sauce that was left in the plate, absolutely. And. And then a small piece of tiramisu for dessert, which was also amazing. But Chelsea had a lot of really cool sort of ice breakers.

Charles:

Like we passed a glass bowl around that had folded up questions and you pick it up and unfold the question and then read, read the question and give your answer. And everybody did that, as we were, in which I was worried about like, oh boy, is this going to be? Everybody had different questions. Yes, everybody had different questions. And then there was kind of a consensus over what the best questions were, and so we all answered some of the best questions, like you know, what person, alive or dead, would you want to have dinner with, and what historical event? You couldn't change it, but you could witness it and you wouldn't get. You know, you wouldn't be tied up in it, you wouldn't be harmed by it, but you could watch anything happen. And my answer to that is always. I would want to see the impact of the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, like imagine being able to watch that in like, in person, and see it happen without you know being, without actually being there, but you could witness it. That would be. I mean, the sky turns on fire and all that kind of that would be amazing to see. I'd love to see that. Yeah, so that was fun, had a good time there. I hope she does another one.

Charles:

It was also a really good value. It was only like $50 for a three course meal and, you know, getting to meet new people and have chats about things and share stories and hear stories and stuff I would definitely put on. The only thing I didn't like was it was analog, so it was called an analog dinner, so no phones. How many people were there? I'd say probably a dozen, 12 people.

Charles:

Oh, nice, yeah, so it was a good, manageable group and you know you kind of big, big enough table was. It was a long table, kind of like the one we used, but maybe maybe two of these, and so it was big enough where, like, your side of the table could have a conversation without stepping on the other side of the tables, conversation and stuff like that. It was good. I liked it Sounds like it was well organized. It was very she's she's on top of it when it comes to organizing events. So I would I would definitely go to more stuff that she puts together. And then she also, because it was analog. She also gave everybody a little contact cards and little notes so that if you wanted to take notes on anything anybody said or you wanted to share your contact, I like it yeah.

Charles:

And it was clearly like done by a graphic designer. It all looked really really good, really high, and she's very detail oriented, so I wish her success. She seems to be doing it right, nice, so that was fun. You and I are probably going to do something tonight, right?

Dan:

Yeah, probably I'm going to figure out what that's going to be at this point with this wonderful weather.

Charles:

Yeah, that's yeah, something indoors for sure. Yeah, I don't want to. Uh, yeah, walking around downtown does not seem fun. I would like to maybe check and see if there's any. I thought I saw somebody's doing Friday night trivia and if it's general knowledge, I could get on board with that. I could get on board with that. Haven't been a trivia in a while. I've got plans to go play some trivia this Tuesday, but I'd like to sort of you know, break myself back in.

Dan:

Oh right, Right, you'd, yeah, exactly Got to got to be limber for the yeah, yeah, important trivia, exactly Correct, all right.

Charles:

So um any feedback from our last episode. Anybody say hey Dan, I really liked hearing you talk about masturbation. I have questions.

Dan:

No, I have. I mean, I must have been so clear on the, uh, the previous episode.

Charles:

Yeah, you didn't leave. You didn't leave much to uh question.

Dan:

Oh well, I mean there's. There's plenty more where that came from by the way.

Charles:

Okay, maybe we'll have to do a part two. Oh God, no, yeah I.

Dan:

I hated it. Maybe we'll just interspersed in between the bath section here and the lotion. I think that's very appropriate about the uh you're correct. Get a little bit deeper into the uh, the masturbation topic.

Charles:

So my uh, yeah, let's jump in my my skepticism from um the episode on. Oh, first, before we do that, I got to say this there's this clip making the rounds again that I talked to you about before earlier this morning. That drives me crazy and and I feel like I need to comment on it. Uh, I hate when people take standup comedy clips and pretend like there's something profound and insightful in them, when it's just it's there for laughs and what really gets entertainment purposes only. What really gets under my skin is when it's a faulty premise that people are trying to mine more wisdom out of than is actually there.

Charles:

And so the one that is going around again is Chris Rock, from a previous standup special of his, uh, talking about how, um, men do not receive unconditional love, in the way that children, dogs and women get unconditional love, and how, as men, we have to make peace with the fact that we are loved based on what we can provide and not loved unconditionally. Like again, women, children and dogs uh, uh, women, children and dogs are not loved unconditionally, neither are men. No, humans are loved unconditionally and we're not entitled to unconditional love.

Dan:

It's unhealthy, I think to love anything unconditionally, because then at that point you could be taken advantage of very easily. You're not taken care or other people could be taken advantage of by that other person. Yes, you've got to have some sort of standards. Basically, unconditional means you don't have any standards.

Charles:

Yeah, and that's what it means to me. And it's also unhealthy to expect unconditional love, because when you then don't receive it, then suddenly you're a victim of some crime, like something bad has been done to you, when you don't get the unconditional love you expect for no reason that you're not entitled to.

Dan:

And I think it drives laziness and you know, basically I think it contributes to a lot of the problems Long-term relationships have run into, which is all right. Well, we get married. Now you have to love me unconditionally. Just because that's what society says, we don't ever get divorced, or that's what religion says, right, right. And so now, oh, all right, I don't, I don't need to try as hard anymore and I've totally made the mistake in non-marriage and in long-term girlfriend relationship. I've totally made that mistake as well.

Charles:

And like oh, oh, she's my girlfriend.

Dan:

We said the magic word is boyfriend, boyfriend, girlfriend. So I don't need to try as hard and in fact, ironically, I think we need to try harder as things go along because that the newness wears off.

Charles:

We've talked about limerence tons of times, absolutely.

Dan:

And I'm dead. I'm a dead, I'm beaten a dead horse here, because I've said this about myself many times.

Charles:

Yeah, no, and I've been there too.

Dan:

And I think it's just more of a reminder to me that you got to keep it up because it's difficult and I'm sure the audience needs to hear it in new ways and repeated ways too, because it takes so much effort and planning.

Dan:

You got to be so intentional. I set calendar now appointments to like, look up good dates and fun things to do and just to I. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, wow you, really, in a weird way it makes you Evaluate that relationship a little bit more, because now Every time you're putting in effort where it hurts a little bit, you're a little uncomfortable.

Charles:

Yeah, how much? How much is this person? Am I getting my value for my effort, right? Yeah, you have to ask yourself that and you know, again, just to, and part of part of the thing with Chris rocks a little bit on this is, I Would say, in any context, whether it's stand-up comedy or political speech, when someone uses a word, if they don't say hey, just so you know I'm using this word a little different than you've used this word before you have to assume that they're using it the way the dictionary defines it and so the way he's using Unconditional and the way he's using love, it's not, it's not legitimate in the argument he's making, which, again, you know be funny, be whatever, but guys are taking this clip and trying to use it as justification for, oh, boohoo, men have it so much harder than women. It's like no, I.

Dan:

I mean, there's isn't a whole purpose of, or one of the foundations of humor is that you are twisting things a little bit and you're making things a little bit different, and that's what he's doing in this it is.

Charles:

You know, the thing is you, you start with a, take it literally. You start with a premise yeah, that makes sense, and then your punchline is the unexpected, surprising twist, okay. But when you start with a premise that is inherently not accurate and and Chris rock has a thing where he repeats his premise over and over again I think I'm talking funny they reference that where Chris rock will say, like he had one bit about women will not go down in status, and he sells his premises by just saying it over and over again. In this case, you know, men do not get unconditional love. Women, children, dogs get unconditional love, but men do not get unconditional love. So he just says it over and over again and it causes the audience to buy in on this premise. That is not necessarily accurate.

Charles:

And it's not because I don't love women unconditionally. I don't love dogs unconditionally. I don't love children on can't. I don't love anything unconditionally yeah, nor should I. I don't feel guilty about that. Yeah, I love things that bring me value. If, if a woman is a stranger or a woman is hostile to me, I don't love her. If a dog is trying to bite me all the time or kill me and eat me. I don't love it. If a kid is not connected to me by some relationship or even in my life in some way, I'm not gonna love that kid.

Dan:

I'm not about screaming on an airplane while you're trying to get some sleep.

Charles:

Yeah, I mean, look, loving is not. I don't want something bad to happen to kids, I don't know but I also don't love them.

Dan:

I don't sacrifice for them. There's a big difference between not loving and wanting something right, exactly. There's a huge difference.

Charles:

Yeah, the world is full of people that I hope for the best for them, but I don't love, and I certainly don't love them unconditionally. I mean, even when it somebody says you should love your children unconditionally, the fact that they're my children, that's a condition, right? I don't love all the children in the world unconditionally. I'm not selling my car to feed some kid that I've never even heard of across on the other side of the world, and neither there's anybody listening to us, but even if it's your children, if they do something like you know, god forbid, they murder somebody.

Dan:

What are you still required or expected to love them unconditionally, somebody who Conditions.

Charles:

I don't love people who murder other people. Yeah, that's a mission, correct. How dare you have conditions? I would not lecture Hitler's mother for not loving him, right, yeah, because, oh, yeah, you said again additional yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a word game, but it's a word game that is leading lots of guys to get to pretend Let their victims of a crime that has not actually happened to them. And and none of these guys are loving women unconditionally. The ones who are being upset oh, not receiving unconditional love, yeah, they're. They're not loving women who aren't attractive enough or who don't make them feel Good enough, or whatever it is. They're. They're not living out unconditional love for women and then they're complaining that they're not receiving unconditional love as men. It's, it's the epitome of weakness and victim mentality, and I hate the chorus of men who are like, yeah, you tell them, chris is yeah a Lot of times.

Dan:

Right, it's really kind of justifying you. You might feel that way at times, and then for you to hear somebody that you Respect right on stage yeah, back that up. You say aha aha, right, look, I found justification for the way I've been feeling at times. Yes, and so you're gonna latch on to that and go? Hey, yeah, look.

Charles:

Yeah, people's. It's one of the great things I picked up from Andrew Farabee, where your value, or your, your attraction in the world, is your neediness minus how much value you bring to the table. And that doesn't just apply to men, that applies in all your human Interactions how much energy someone sucks from you, you subtract that for how much value they bring to your life and that's going to be how much you want them around. Mm-hmm. And as men, if, if the value we bring into a relationship is offset by how needy we are, how emotionally unregulated we are, how demanding we are, how clingy we are, eventually that balance is gonna shift and that that woman's not gonna want to be around us anymore, and that's when breakups happen.

Dan:

Yeah, and if anything, that just speaks to why it's so important to have a Varied life, a cake of a life, of active social life, because then your neediness can be spread out Amongst all the other things that are going on in your life, right including those other relationships, those friendships that your neediness and your value will both be spread out into multiple areas of your life, and that's how you have a good life, right?

Charles:

Yeah, I'll have needs and you can have needs without being needy. What, yes, what being needy the way I think of it is that's when you're only Demanding and not giving, yeah, or or when that ratio is just completely out of whack. That's what makes you need not having needs. If I, I have needs, dan has needs, we all have needs, and we only become needy when the level of value that we're giving in exchange for having our needs met gets completely Wacked out. And through laziness, through trauma, unresolved trauma, whatever it is, that's when you run into problems, when you become just a vacuum cleaner of other people's value. That's when you're needy.

Dan:

I prefer black hole.

Charles:

Okay, fair enough.

Dan:

But yeah, I mean, it's same thing. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. So have a lot of, have an active social life, have you know, have a lot of friends have a lot of resources that you can draw on from time to time, so you're not Again draw it. You know drying out that well, for yeah from when you're right.

Dan:

Yeah, because that's the only that's the only source you have to help with that neediness or whatever that that need might be. At that time You're gonna eat the well runs dry right at that point. Now you're jeopardizing the relationship Right.

Dan:

So you have to have a life where you're constantly exchanging value or you're setting, you're setting up the relationship so that you're telling them it's okay for them to run your well dry as well. So, maybe, very true. You are then saying because I'm being so needy and you're showing that, that's okay, they then expect the same from you, and you may not be prepared for that or even aware that you've sent that message. Right, that's, that's gonna make everything more difficult, yeah, so so yeah again.

Charles:

My lesson is, and and I'll probably we'll release this. I'll send certainly a link to the, to the video that he puts us out there in the show notes, but we'll probably put some short clips out that will include what Chris has to say. And yeah, just, you're setting yourself up for failure when you think you've got unconditional love coming to you and that some other people Get it and you don't that. That's really where the, the this, becomes a harmful mistake. I mean, you can, you can believe whatever you want to and be wrong, that's fine. I'm not gonna tell you not to. But when you think that you're entitled to something that other people are getting and you're not, that's when you turn into a real shitty person.

Dan:

You know. The other thing to think about here is nobody sees the entire day of somebody else, so you could just be seeing the highlight reels where somebody is acting like they're giving somebody unconditional love, but you don't know after they've gone home and on the car ride home what kind of conversation they have, or in their house, or on the weekends, when you're not seeing them, or when they didn't post something on social media. We see highlight reels all the time. Most people do. I mean, yeah, there's a few people who you know. We'll talk about the stuff that they're struggling with, sure, but most of the time we're seeing oh wow, I'm doing this for my child. Like a lot of moms are showing all these things that they're doing for their kids and bringing them here and doing all these things and you're like, oh, my God, this kid is so lucky he's getting all this attention from his parents Meanwhile, you have no idea the struggles that we're not seeing.

Charles:

Yeah, unless you live in a house with someone, you're getting a curated version of what's going on in their life, and most people aren't even trying to consciously manipulate you by giving you that curated version. It's just I don't like, aaron, my dirty laundry in front of other people. It's certainly not on social media. I'm not looking for pity or sympathy on social media, and we've had this discussion before. I would argue most men should not use social media for that purpose. It's going to make you miserable and, yeah, you're seeing what people want to show you.

Dan:

And you're then setting that bar and that expectation around the house because you've seen all these highlight rules. Yeah, exactly. So you're like wait a minute, there's something wrong with me or us or our family because we aren't able to give ourselves this unconditional love, which clearly exists, because I'm seeing it on Instagram or Facebook. Meanwhile, that's not what humans, that's not normal, it is not yeah, yeah, it's talked about.

Charles:

Yeah, it doesn't exist in the wild, it just doesn't. And it doesn't exist in the romantic relationships. It doesn't exist. Parent-child, siblings, relationship with your God. I mean none of it's unconditional in the way that the word actually is designed to be used by the society. That is decided on the word unconditional. There is no unconditional. Hardly anything, certainly not love.

Dan:

Yeah, and when people struggle. I've had some family members telling me they're upset in tears because they feel like they're a bad parent, they're not getting it all done. And all I got to do is remind them all the things they have been doing, but they forget about the good things that they've done. And I think they've just said that they're competing, they're comparing themselves to again the social media stuff that they're seeing and they think they should be able to do it all with a smile on their face. And then, when they can't, they just double down on beating themselves up and feel like they're a bad parent, and then it's almost like they throw their hands up in the air and they don't want to try anything at that point anymore. So lower the bar, be kinder to yourself, realize everything is temporary and not everything is going to be unconditional love, perfect world most of the time.

Charles:

Yeah, and when it comes to your partner, your kids, I mean, again, it is possible to love someone even though they do bad things. Sure, but the condition again is you've got a relationship with them already. And so even parents who do love their kids, who end up shooting up schools and stuff, like I can understand that they love them. They're loving them based on the condition of that's your kid, not the condition of what you've done today or what you did yesterday or what you're going to do tomorrow. So, yeah, guys, if you don't feel like you're not getting something that other people or other classes or even pets are getting, there is no unconditional love. You're not a victim. Because you got lazy and your girlfriend broke up with you, that doesn't mean you gave her unconditional love and she didn't give it back to you. It's like, well, if you were giving her unconditional love, you probably would have been doing the things that prevented the breakup from happening.

Charles:

Sure, so it's yeah, this, yeah, guys, online boy, they just want this sense of virtue and they want this sense of which, really, I mean that's rooted in codependence. That's a thing that codependent people do. It's like I want to believe that I'm better than the people in my life and I sacrifice more than they do and I'm more virtuous than they are and I'm getting in the shitty end of the stick because they're not giving back to me what I'm giving to them. That is a very strong impulse of the codependent man and you get this feeling of superiority and you get no one to share it with, because everybody sort of works their way out of your life because it's miserable to be around. I could see that, so knock it off. And Chris Rock, I know you listen to every episode and you never miss it Be a little more studious with your premises, please. You're causing guys out there to go crazy.

Dan:

Yeah, so I mean. My question is it is for entertainment, and so is that something you think he actually believes and that's why he's so adamant and repeats it on stage, or I mean the repeating it could just be part of selling the bit. That's what I'm asking you Right At his level, I feel like he probably knows how to sell stuff.

Charles:

I have heard him say some stuff in interviews about his relationship with his now ex-wife.

Dan:

Where he's not on stage and he's not trying to sell something Correct. Ok, that's my question.

Charles:

I think he's got some flawed ideas about how relationships are going to work or should work or do work, and I think he's passing some of that along in his comedy. Ok, and look, I mean, yeah, there's your. I don't know any comedian who is 100% just a character. They're bringing some of who they are into their act and that's OK. And I'm not saying he shouldn't get laughs, where he can get laughs. But again, my issue with it is when it starts making the rounds on social media and guys are using it as a aha see, I am a victim. It's like, don't look for opportunities to be a victim, especially when you're not.

Dan:

Yeah, and the other thing too is, with this bit he's basically saying he's talking about all men are this way and all women are this way and all, and that's never accurate.

Charles:

No, certainly not. Yeah, that's not going to. Yeah, comedy is not supposed to be social commentary, and whether he means it to be or not is kind of irrelevant it's. The choice is do you take it as social commentary? Do you take it of who's sharing some great truth and bringing to light what I'm entitled to and I'm not receiving?

Dan:

And you got to remember the other thing to keep in mind here is yes, he's been successful, he's on stage right and, but he hasn't evaluated hundreds or thousands of relationships.

Charles:

I'd rather listen to the Gottmans on such things, you know this isn't his job right, absolutely.

Dan:

I mean, he's been successful as being a comic, but not as what is he running studies on? No, you know. So this is remember any comic or any actor or any musician who's spouting out about something where all this or all that religion, politics or relationships it's limited to their experience.

Dan:

Right, they have a bubble, just like we do, and it's not like they're sending, you know, any veteran isn't sending me, you know, questionnaires about who my political, who I voted for Right, you know so, and I love Pearl Jam music, but I went to a concert and he spent a lot of time.

Dan:

Got to spend a lot of time talking about politics and it's like, ok, but again you're, you're limited. You know information is not something that I'm going to take home with me and, if anything, now you've soured me a little bit on your music, because I'm running the going to see you live, because I'm running the risk now of not getting what I paid for, what I expect. Yeah, and and that's not what you sold Like. It'd be different if it was like your music and politics, or Pearl.

Charles:

Jam yeah.

Dan:

Right, you know. Ok, sign me up, no problem.

Charles:

And you know, for to his credit, it probably the market's probably working that way where the people who agree with his politics are probably super excited when he's coming or not only agree with, but agree with his politics and like hearing him share it are probably like man, I can't wait for Pearl Jam to come back to town because then I get to hear their music and I get to make sure me and Eddie are still on the same page politically. I mean, maybe he's niching down.

Charles:

I mean you know, I mean listen, he's totally entitled to absolute Right and where the people who either don't like his politics or don't like politics being shared in public in general will probably be like I heard him once, maybe I don't need to go back and hear him again. And so yeah, he's probably building exactly the audience at his shows that he wants to have at his shows, so good for him.

Dan:

I that being said, when he did play. Don't back down right after Tom Petty passed away.

Charles:

I know I'm up in Jacksonville.

Dan:

I, I teared it and I still get chills because Tom Petty was my first concert on my own, yeah, and then for him to do that in Jacksonville, like when, I saw him. Yeah, I'm getting chills right now thinking about it.

Charles:

Yeah, I'm sure that was amazing.

Dan:

So as much as I didn't like the politics, I did love that song.

Charles:

All right, let's. Let's blow through this chapter on baths, where when he tells you why you should take a bath and I argue against every reason and, yeah, we'll see where we go from there. So, okay, so skip the shower. You should be taking baths. No, I am not ever going to take a bath instead of a shower. You can sell me on the function of taking a bath in addition to my normal shower and schedule. I'm not going to believe that you get really clean by taking a bath instead of a shower, because you're essentially laying in a pool of sweat and dirt, unless you take a shower first and then take a bath, but then. Okay, then that takes the getting clean part of the argument right off the table. So I love spending time in a hot tub yeah, usually with a friend, and by friend I mean actual friend or my romantic partner, that's. That's fun to hang out in a hot tub.

Charles:

Here are the benefits that he ascribes to taking a bath, all of which can be gotten from Spending time in a hot tub and not actually using a bath to get clean. It improves your mood. Yes, laying in in a and laying or sitting in a pool of hot water does make me feel good, so I will agree with that. Muscle recovery sure be in hot water. Submerge in hot water will make your muscles feel better. Getting better sleep I can. I can understand the argument. I've never personally witnessed. Oh, I spent an hour in a hot tub and I had the greatest night of sleep in my life. I find what. There are other things that more directly impact the quality of sleep. I get the weather. I spend some time in a bath or a hot tub for me actually I've gotten much better sleep after being in a hot tub.

Dan:

I have noticed it's been noticeably Okay, and so much so that, as I've been struggling with my sleep a little bit, it's been more time I haven't.

Charles:

I'm going to, you're going to.

Dan:

That's why you okay that's what's heating up right now.

Charles:

Strength your, strengthen your immune system. Again, I could see that. I mean, all I would have is anecdotal evidence one way or the other, but I would believe it Helping your heart. I know that, yeah, you're. When you're in hot water for an extended period of time, your blood flow is going to be improved, so I can see why that would help your heart. We know burns calories because when you're it certainly gets water weight off your body. I don't know, I guess yeah, it's gonna burn calories. If you're an environment where it's very cold or very hot and your body's having to work harder to regulate your temperature, yes, that's going to burn calories. Soothes your skin. Yeah, it does feel good if you have a Sunburn especially that's the one thing I'm going to point out.

Dan:

Between a hot tub and a bath, okay, then the hot tub and I. You might be able to do it these days, but I don't think they recommend putting any like essential oils or anything additional on your skin in a hot tub, and the the chlorine can dry you out a little bit. We're in a bathtub.

Charles:

You can put it like right in the, the water there and and kind of let that soak in the water is not sitting there for as long as it's not as much water and it's not sitting there where you have to worry about Nasty things growing, so you have to keep the water treated with chlorine or bromine.

Dan:

Yeah, but you know you can. You can put on oils and and moisturizers and things like that after you get in the hot tub.

Charles:

So yeah, that's true. Ease, arthritis, pain. Again, that makes total sense. I can understand why that would work and then He'll talk about. But again, for most of these, if you're not a bath person, and again for If you say, well, it's just more relaxing, like the answer is for me is not to me. I get more relaxation out of making a nice hot shower and standing under the water, or sometimes sitting under the water or, yeah, sitting on the ground and you know hugging my knees and crying, you know whatever it is for one or two hours.

Dan:

Let's your boat. Yeah, exactly.

Charles:

I get more relaxation out of that than I would in drawing a bath, and certainly I've got a very small bathtub in my RV and so there is not a whole lot of my body that's getting under the water at the same time if I'm taking a bath in there.

Dan:

Have you ever tried any of those like shower soothers, where they have?

Charles:

Yes, those are awesome and I.

Dan:

I've. I've actually bought them for other people, actually for Christmas. I haven't tried them myself. I've always been meaning to to try it to see if they actually Melt enough to where you're getting.

Charles:

Yes they do. My ex, my ex-wife and I Would get the ones and you just basically put it on the ground approximately where the water stream hits it. Okay and uh, yeah, if either of us was sick or felt like we were getting congested or sick or something like that.

Charles:

Makes a huge difference. Yeah, so I do recommend those are like. They look almost like urinal cakes, yeah, and you just put them in the shower, approximately where the water is going to hit it. Well, there's water dripping off your body, or the the Stream from the shower head directly hits it. Yeah, it does.

Dan:

It does release Is that a one-time use thing.

Charles:

Yeah, they fully dissolve and then go down the drain. So, yeah, some of them are not cheap. That's why, oh, yeah, got you, yeah, I guess, I guess it was probably. I mean, I think I got mine at Walgreens Republic so it wasn't very expensive. And uh, yeah, they, they put off some menthol and stuff like that Smells really good, yeah, shower and then goes away, it goes down the drain.

Charles:

So, yeah, I, I don't know if I could use one of my RV, because my, my hot water tank in my RV is usually good for about eight minutes, which is plenty of time for me to Shower and shave and all that stuff. So I, I don't spend. Maybe it's a little longer than that. It might be double digit minutes before I run out of hot water. Kind of depends on the time of year. It is like right now it takes more work to keep the water hot than it would in the middle of summer, and so, yeah, in summertime I probably take slightly longer showers than I do in the in the winter.

Charles:

Okay, but uh, okay. So, yeah, some of the things you can use to improve your bath that you may not want to throw in your in your hot tub. Well, first, water. You're going to need that. Make sure it's not too hot, since that can cause burns. I do like it. If I'm taking a bath or if I'm in a hot tub, I usually like a little bit warmer than certainly most commercial hot tubs can get in our, our disposable variety hot tub that we love so much.

Dan:

Yeah, plateable ones, they don't get super, super hot, yeah but hot enough.

Charles:

Yes, yes, Salt. Epsom salt can help ease your muscles, promote mineral absorption and it is relaxing. It was magnesium in that, yes, which is good for you. Yep, essential oils I would. I would. I would be too worried about like, how much do I use? Is this going to irritate my skin? Is you know stuff like that? You know I, because I know, like some of the ones that I like, like tea tree oil and stuff like that, are bad for your skin.

Dan:

Yeah, you wouldn't put that in there. Yeah, that's going to dry you out, and I've got a tea tree oil story.

Charles:

Oh yeah, Another point. Ok, I'll look forward to that Coloidal oatmeal.

Dan:

I didn't know they made coloidal oatmeal. Yeah, so that is.

Charles:

I've used some of the Avino like body wash products. Have oatmeal in it. And I think it's this kind of oatmeal and I think they make like bath bubble, bath mixes and stuff that have oatmeal in it.

Dan:

So I mean I know, yeah, I know, for I've seen it for dogs, where they've got an oatmeal wash when they've really irritated skin, the groomers, they had some of that.

Charles:

Yeah, I've seen that too. Baking soda is an exfoliator, can help remove your calluses and dead skin. And then ice cubes Hard pass on that, although you know the ice, ice bath, ice plunges I've I've gone into one when I was at that spa in New York City on my last trip and it was, it was cold, it was like I think it was 36 degrees, and so I went in briefly and I was like man, this is not long you able to tolerate that for maybe 20 or 30 seconds it was.

Charles:

Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty rough, I mean.

Dan:

I've heard you get a benefit from. I mean, you probably got a benefit from, but like as little as a minute in there, that's the people who sell the ice plunge, I think.

Charles:

And they've. They've started making. I mean, it's gotten real popular because of Rogan and all his friends basically talking about it nonstop. And who's that guy that does the Wim Hof he talks about a lot too. And so they've. They've been making more and more systems where you can have that at your house without spending five, ten grand to have it so start out cold shower.

Dan:

Yes absolutely.

Charles:

You can handle the cold shower and get benefit from it.

Dan:

And then I would say look into this, but not just a cold like. So I do cold showers, the easy way, where I start out with hot Right and then like I'll soap myself up and then I'll turn it cold and force myself to like wash off the soap with the cold water and that lasts maybe 30 to 30 seconds to a minute and that's rough in the winter time here in Florida. It actually gets cold in the summer time.

Dan:

It doesn't get cold enough, correct, but there's a big difference between doing that and walking into a cold shower, and so if you can like walk into where it's cold the whole entire time, then all right. Look into one of these ice plunges. You might be able to handle that.

Charles:

Yeah, I do that kind of cold shower every couple months where I run out of propane, oh and I have, and I have to be somewhere and I have to be clean, and so back before I had the option of just walking across the street to your RV, which I did the other night and thank you for that. That was before I had my, before my neighbor left it, I had my sewer hookup. I was like, ok, I need a shower, I'm not going to the bathhouse, I'm going over to Dan's place. And so I actually went over, turned your water heater on, then went back to some work on my computer, then, like 40 minutes later, went back and it was awesome.

Dan:

Good, I'm glad. I'm glad you're able to use it.

Charles:

I'm glad you managed that and I appreciate it that somebody's using it yes and so.

Charles:

But yeah, occasionally I do have no choice where it's like either I show I go somewhere dirty with crappy looking hair or I take a cold shower, wall to wall, start to finish. And you know it's rough at the beginning, but you know, you get used to it. Yeah, the human body can get used to almost anything and so I get used to it. And it's when I'm then dressed in the car and driving where I'm going it's like, ok, that wasn't so bad. That's like as it starts, it's like this is the worst thing I've ever experienced. And then, like, literally 15 minutes later, you're like and that wasn't so bad. So, yeah, and Wim Hof does have a free app that will take you through the process of getting used to cold showers, and it's free at the beginning. Then eventually you have to pay for it, but I like it, I used it.

Charles:

His book I found unlistable, was one of the few audible things that I returned where it's just too preachy and too much background, too much life story. It's. You can. You can find out everything you need to know about Wim Hof's method from YouTube videos. You do not need to listen to his book. So sorry, wim, if I'm taking money out of your pocket, but your book is a little unsufferable.

Dan:

I mean I highly recommend cold showers, at least finishing with a cold shower, because a lot of times I wake up in this groggy state.

Charles:

Oh that helps it out.

Dan:

A half hour, an hour before I'm clear. This will clear your face, mind, body immediately.

Charles:

Yeah, definitely.

Dan:

If you need to function, you're running late cold shower all the way it will.

Charles:

It will bring you. It will bring systems online that a hot shower will not bring online for sure.

Dan:

I could barely put one foot in front of the other and I'm jumping like on the way to the shower and at the end of the shower I'm jumping around like a Mexican jumping bean, like trying to deal with that cold.

Charles:

And here's something you can. If you want super easy mode for cold showers, here's what you can do Start hot, go cold for 30, 60 seconds and hot and then finish hot again. That's going to feel really good. That hot it does, yes, because then I mean drying off your body after hot water does feel way better than cold and just work yourself up to it. There's, there's no rules here. There's nobody you're trying to impress, just yeah, if you want to bring a little bit of cold shower into your life, then yeah, I would say the absolute beginner, novice step is hot, cold, hot.

Dan:

And there's there's therapies that they do the alternation of hot and cold therapies and yeah, I think it'd be good for you.

Charles:

Yeah, it's getting it done. It's the easy way, so real quick. Some things to do in the bath read actual book, not an iPad. Analog baths. These are analog analog baths. Yeah, I mean, I got no problem with you using an e-reader, but you know, if you drop it in, you know I mean I've got the one that I use. That is E Inc, where it doesn't feel like you're looking at a screen.

Dan:

Right, as long as I think it's fine if you're reading something on your phone even, but I don't patient of everything else. That's the nice thing about an e-reader you don't have all the other temptations?

Charles:

Exactly, yeah, mine only does that. I use the Kobo reader and I'm a big fan of their brand. I like, I like everything about their web experience and the hardware of the device. Think you can certainly do that Meditate, clean your fingernails, listen to music and, of course, masterbate, as Dan referenced earlier, which I would not do because just the actual mechanics of that are kind of gross. But you know.

Dan:

I feel, yeah, I wouldn't want anything floating around.

Charles:

So that's the thing I was going to say ladies, ladies, get a little break in this department where guys don't.

Dan:

Exactly.

Charles:

And then there's this one thing where they talk about they referenced Tom Ford, who is my favorite clothing designer Four baths.

Dan:

Are you kidding me, if you're?

Charles:

taking four baths a day, you have there's, there's a mental condition there that you I mean if you're rich and famous and successful maybe that's not something that you need to. You need to look into and try to fix. But I kind of feel like that is there's something going on, symptomatic of something. Yeah, so I I would say, hey, look if, if, if you're a bit germphobic, a little OCD, whatever, and it's working for you, I'm not going to tell you you need to change anything If it's not working for you. And having to bathe four times a day might be a symptom of a mental health thing that is getting in your way in other areas. So that may be something I would want to talk to somebody about. I agree, I'm sure he smells amazing. His clothes are great. His clothes are great. He was.

Dan:

I mean, they also mentioned that once he became a dad, he shifted to one bath a day right, which you know sounds like maybe he got through whatever he was going through.

Charles:

Yeah, maybe. So. I hope so, because that's that's. That's. That would be hard for me to run a life that included four baths a day, mm. Hmm, all right, so let's stop there for now. We will jump into the next chapter on many Petties, nice. And then we've got. What was the chapter after that that we read after many Petties, what Ocean. Lociens and then tanning. Well, we'll cover all those in the episodes coming up, all right. So thanks, dan. We'll talk to you again soon.

Dan:

All right, bye, bye.

Charles:

Thanks again for listening everybody. Please do us a favor and follow or subscribe on YouTube and your favorite podcast app.

Discussion of Self-Care for Men
The Illusion of Unconditional Love
Understanding Neediness and Unconditional Love
Pros and Cons of Taking Baths
Cold Showers