Tattoos are Self-care?

Have you ever stared at a tattoo and wondered about the story it tells? Charles and Dan are peeling back the ink this week on Mindfully Masculine, as we tackle the complex dynamics of self-care and identity in the realm of tattoos and beyond. We're diving into the reasons why some men choose to remain a blank canvas, sharing personal tales that range from cultural influences to the potential for regret with permanent body art. But it's not all serious business; we'll whisk you away on a culinary detour, discussing how our taste buds have matured from filet mignon to the robust flavors of a New York strip.

Tattoos often stand as silent sentinels of personal history, but what happens when they no longer represent who we are? We get candid about the emotional weight of inked memories and the significance of choosing a symbol that evolves with you. Not only do we explore the personal side of tattoos, but we also scrutinize the practicalities—from the painful realities of removal to the necessity of aftercare. Let's not forget the role of habits and systems in shaping success; we're revealing how the enchantment of life can be found in the simplest of routines, from the skincare regime that guards your canvas to the supplements that fuel our bodies.

As the conversation takes a turn towards the sunny side, we sift through the nuances of sunscreen safety and skincare. You'll hear about our personal experience with mineral-based sunscreens and the challenge of finding a balance between health and aesthetics. Before we wrap up, we extend an invitation for you to join our mindful journey. Tattoo enthusiast or not, we're here to explore the intricacies of modern masculinity with you. So, subscribe or follow Mindfully Masculine—let's continue to build habits, break stigmas, and talk about steak in ways that might just surprise you.

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Hello, there it's Charles, and welcome back to another episode of the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This week, dan and I continue discussing self-care for men and spend most of the episode talking about tattoos, a subject that neither Dan nor I have firsthand knowledge of, though we will talk about why we've decided so far not to engage in this particular cultural practice. Enjoy, and please follow or subscribe to the show on your chosen podcast app or on YouTube. Thanks for listening. Good morning, charles. How are you? I'm well, dan. Thank you, how are you?

Dan: 0:35

I am also doing well.

Charles: 0:38

Splendid.

Dan: 0:40

Wow Okay.

Charles: 0:43

Oh we have. We got a busy second half of the week coming up here. You and I start the podcast festivities Mm-hmm this evening probably, right, maybe?

Dan: 0:55

Maybe. Yeah, I think you're a solid maybe on that.

Charles: 0:57

I'm kind of maybe too. I messaged Renata cancel my therapy appointment yesterday and she replied to that message today telling me that she would have to charge me because it was within 48 hours and I thought it was 24, but I guess now.

Dan: 1:15

Who's got a 48 hour pause?

Charles: 1:17

Well, renata does, okay, alright. So when she told me that I was like, alright, I'll make it work, so yeah, so you're gonna go. Yeah, definitely gotta go. I'm not gonna pay and not go, right? So yeah, I'm gonna do that, and then I'll keep in mind that she requires 48 hours. Yeah, that's okay, just be nice, yeah.

Dan: 1:39

I mean, was that disclosed to you in advance Of?

Charles: 1:41

course not. No, okay, but you know when. Alright, just wondering. Market forces, tell Renata that she can do whatever she wants, because she has more people who want to see her than she has time to see them. So she gets to treat us patients like so much cattle Right when it comes to feeding her lifestyle, have you?

Dan: 2:01

ever like, canceled on her before within 48 hours.

Charles: 2:05

Within 48,. Yes, definitely, this is definitely new. So this is a new policy, this is a definitely new policy that you were not informed about.

Dan: 2:10

Correct, okay, just checking. Yeah so Just asking questions.

Charles: 2:14

What am I gonna do, though? Start going to somebody else tell them my whole stupid story?

Dan: 2:19

No, absolutely not. No, you're just gonna put up with it.

Charles: 2:21

Yes, that's right, she's got me. I guess I could get mad and I'll be like that's it. I'm not going to therapy anymore. But yeah, that's just a lose-lose. Yeah, who's gonna win? Who wins that? Not you, not anybody else in my life. So, yeah, we got PodFest. We talked to our buddy, adam, the preeminent podcast business coach. Talked to him yesterday. That was great. Yeah, that was great. We'll get to see him at PodFest. He's doing a program presentation Friday at 10 and then Thursday. No, yes, friday at 10 and then Thursday at 8 pm is his little get together. Nice, get to hang out with him and some of his, our fellow clients. Let's see what else is going on. You and I are both making the switch to New York strip stakes. It's big news.

Dan: 3:15

It is. It is big news. I was a filet man and realized I'm missing out on flavor. Yeah, a lot of it.

Charles: 3:25

Yeah, the tender consistency and the ability to eat every bite with no fat has been sort of knocked down to the second place for me. Yeah, you know the flavor of the New York strip.

Dan: 3:35

We had the other night. I also realized a lot of my excitement about fillets have been the toppings or the sides that they come with, and not necessarily the meat itself, whereas that New York strip.

Charles: 3:51

Yeah, I didn't need anything Did it Did not. And you got yours medium right, I did. I got my medium rare and I think they both came out pretty much the same though, when I was looking at the inside of them. But you know, I'm okay with pretty much anything from. I mean I was gonna say medium, well, not really medium or medium rare. Maybe rare would be okay if it's a really good kind of meat.

Dan: 4:13

I'll be honest with you, I don't know anybody that does a medium well the way it's advertised where there's still a little bit of pink in there it's, and it's too bad because I don't want it bleeding. And a lot of times I get medium and it's bleeding. And if I get medium, well it's, it's burnt almost.

Charles: 4:30

You know it's so Well with fillets my ex Aaron used to get fillets and she liked it medium or medium, well, I don't remember and we had one waiter that asked if we would like it butterfly.

Dan: 4:47

That's the way to do it.

Charles: 4:47

That is the way to do it. Yes, it's so thick, exactly yeah. How are you gonna a two and a half inch steak? How are you gonna get the inside to be brown without the outside being black? It's pretty tough. So butterfly is the is the move. So, yeah, but I I was a medium guy and now I'll move him back to medium rare, which is how I liked it when I was younger. Okay, and maybe I'll end up at rare someday. So, yeah, big news there.

Charles: 5:12

Dan and I have switched our preferred cuts of steak to New York strip. Now, the obviously the best scenario is if you're hungry enough, get a porterhouse. So you get the New York strip on one side and the filet on the other. But those are expensive and 24 ounces usually a porterhouse is at least 24 ounces. That's a lot of, that's a lot of. How much of that is bone, though. So I mean certainly some of its bone. Yeah, big, yeah, the bone does count against the, the weight. But yeah, I would guess it's probably a maybe a 12 ounce strip with an eight ounce filet and then another one. Is that add up to another four ounces of bone?

Dan: 5:52

Yes, I'm like that. Now, that's probably a precook.

Charles: 5:55

Oh, I'm sure it's pre cook yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that's usually how they measure it doesn't make me hungry, make me want a steak.

Dan: 6:00

Yeah, I'm getting hungry too. Dude, we better get through this.

Charles: 6:02

Okay.

Dan: 6:03

Here's, so we can eat.

Charles: 6:04

All right, let's. So we're going to cover at least one chapter in this episode, maybe two. The first one is where your art on your sleeve, all about tattoos and getting ready to. Yeah, we're going to share this valuable info with you as two men with no tattoos, so take everything you have to say with the usual canister of table salt. Why don't you have any tattoos down here, mark Indeed?

Dan: 6:34

I didn't think you'd be exposing me out on the podcast like this, but yes, yes, I am. No, I just never found anything that has been so significant to me where I'm like, yeah, I could see me having this for the entirety of my life on my body and I'd be happy with it. I don't know. I just have not.

Charles: 6:55

That is.

Dan: 6:55

that is one of my go to answers as well, and part of that, too, comes from me looking at a lot of tattoos that I've seen around which looks like everything just fades. Doesn't matter how beautiful it is when it starts yeah, I've just, you know, the new ones they look great I just feel like it just starts to look kind of gray and faded and dirty and, as I've read and learned in this chapter, there is a lot of maintenance that you really should be taking care of, and of that tattoo I've got a lot of other things to maintain and take care of. You know, and I feel like you need to kind of go above and beyond if this thing is going to last and look good for a long time and then if it doesn't, your alternatives are not great in terms of, you know, we're getting them removed or getting them covered up or changing them.

Charles: 7:46

I mean, I would almost say you know if you're going to, if you're going to do it and you're going to pick a design that you believe you will be into for the rest of your life, you kind of just have to accept. Okay, I'm going to have to go get this touched up and essentially redone every few years if I want it to keep looking fresh, because for the most part, they all turn. It looks like they all turn green eventually. Right, they all turn dark green. Yeah, no matter what you have done initially, it's all going to end up dark green, unless you're getting new work done on top of it.

Charles: 8:18

Yeah, yeah. So my, the reasons that I would give exactly what you said, where I just never felt an attachment to anything that I wanted on me forever, that's one thing. The the answer I usually give, which I consider to be somewhat humorous, is that you know, if you have any tattoos, you can't be buried in an Orthodox Jewish cemetery which I am not Orthodox in Orthodox June, or do I have any plans to convert? But I like to keep my options open.

Dan: 8:50

Yeah For me. For me, it's the things that spur my memories. Those good feelings are not I don't need to wear them, they're things, either pictures or things I've got around the house, things like that. So I can see why a lot of people do get them for remembering loved ones, sometimes pets, things like that, and I can understand that. Yeah, for me. The other side of that is, a lot of times those memories for me are bittersweet If these are like lost. I mean, if these people are still alive, that's one thing, but if you've lost them which I feel like I've seen a lot more people where they've lost people that they, you know were pets, and that's to me that's a bittersweet and that kind of yeah, that generates feelings I don't want to have on a consistent basis.

Charles: 9:33

Yeah, that's true. Like, yeah, you could be having a great day and then catch a look at your arm or yourself in the mirror and you're like, oh, yeah, there's my dog that died when I was 13 years old, right, and I mean, yeah, that's that's, that's, that's a legitimate concern that I hadn't thought about before. I would say what? What his motivated me to not get any is really two things. Number one one of the only memories I have of my biological father who I have no relationship with and hadn't since I was very, very young was that he had a tattoo of a devil on him somewhere and I was just like. The more I learned about him as I was growing up, the less I wanted to be like him. So that's certainly a factor. The other thing and I was thinking about this on my drive over this morning, because I, you know, I prepare for the show on the drive over to your house- and then, when you're here to prepare, to prepare for the show, I'm here to prepare and I'm preparing right now.

Charles: 10:31

The other thing I thought of was that I I think I feel a need to maintain a very fluid sense of identity. Now, you know, not when it comes to my, my gender or anything sexual, which is what fluid identity usually when you talk about those two?

Dan: 10:49

together that trigger word these days Sure.

Charles: 10:50

Yeah, so not that, but just like I feel like I've got to be prepared to be the person I need to be in whatever situation occurs, and having an image or a piece of art on my body permanently that I can't do anything about once it's there, it feels like it steals some of that flexibility that makes me comfortable. Away from me, like you can't be the person you need to be to get through a situation if who you really are is just permanently displayed on your skin, and so I think that's a big part of it for me, and I never thought about that until this morning.

Dan: 11:31

That makes sense. That makes sense Based on each of our own experiences will determine what our thoughts are around tattoos and body art and everything else. So that could be yeah, it could be limiting you in terms of you being able to focus and be what you wanna be, even if nobody else has a problem with having a tattoo because they're so common these days, most people wouldn't. But growing up that wasn't the case, Like we grew up in generation, in the era where I mean, I got at 14, I got a hoop earring, oh, did you really?

Dan: 12:03

My German grandmother almost had a fricking heart attack when I came back with it. You know I can still do that, yeah, yeah, I still have the whole here. But that and that wasn't common, and nor was tattoos or colored hair. I remember my grandmother making comments, saw a girl walking by with purple hair one time. This was, I mean, probably 30 years ago, 35 years ago, and she just she was in her 60s, 60s or 70s at that point. So she made some disparaging comments.

Charles: 12:30

It was purple hair, it wasn't anything crazy.

Dan: 12:33

And it just goes to show, though, some of those things still kind of implant in your mind and these ideas and these experiences and they come back, just like everything else does in childhood, sometimes, when it's an emotional event and I could see a tattoo absolutely getting in the way of being who you wanna be when you wanna be that person.

Charles: 12:53

Right, yeah, and yeah, yeah, because your clothes, your hairstyle, all those other things you can kinda they're all semi-permanent. You can change them as you need to change them. But once you start putting holes in your body or pictures on your body, then yeah, unless you wanna go through the removal process, which sounds I mean, I've heard before that it's very painful and not all that effective. So, yeah, that's, you can't get one with the idea of, if I change my mind, I'll just have it removed.

Dan: 13:24

Right. Well, I mean and you talked about it at the back of this chapter I didn't realize that they said a removal process can take years. I had no idea it was a years type of situation trying to get it removed. I know they've had even shows, like on TLC, where they've had tattoo artists and they'll like cover them up, the bad ones, and make them into something absolutely beautiful and that's all great. I have really looked into that but in terms of the removal, but that kind of shocked me that it was that long of a process because getting one you get one in a day and to think it takes so much time and effort and probably pain to get it removed.

Charles: 14:05

Yeah, yeah, and I've never. I mean, I've seen some post removal jobs before and I've never seen like a piece of skin where I thought, oh, there's never a tattoo there. That looks completely normal, like. No, there's always something, some discoloration or the pigmentation's off.

Dan: 14:23

It's like painting a spot on the wall of your house Exactly. After the other paint has been faded from the sun and everything else for years.

Charles: 14:31

Yeah, it's gonna be a little deliberate.

Dan: 14:34

You gotta redo the whole leg.

Charles: 14:37

So essentially, yeah. So that's yeah. That idea of what if I change my mind, what if I've known some people that have gotten their partner's name put on them and then the breakup happens and I mean I feel like you're just asking for bad luck.

Dan: 14:57

I mean I know you don't believe in luck or karma or whatever, but putting a partner's name, I don't know. Maybe it's just too much TV shows or movies where I've seen that just go south and just be a running joke.

Charles: 15:12

Yeah, and I mean nobody. Everybody thinks oh, me and my partner, we're not gonna break up, but the numbers are what the numbers are, and yeah, yeah, or this will guarantee that we're staying together, because I've got your name on my arm.

Charles: 15:27

Yeah, and then you're going back for some coverup work, yeah, okay. So I would say that the idea of tattoos as self-care the author just kind of puts that out there as a foregone conclusion that the effort you put into picking a tattoo and getting the tattoo and maintaining the tattoo because you have to do it deliberately, with conscious thought that's a kind of self-care you are thinking about yourself in that respect?

Dan: 16:00

Yes, and you are forcing yourself to then, well, you don't have to take care of it. But I'm thinking, if you're going to spend the time he talks about, you have to make sure it's moisturized and clean. And I'm thinking, if you're gonna spend your time doing that on the tattoo, you might be more likely to do that in other parts of your body when you wouldn't.

Charles: 16:18

True? Yeah, I would think so. But Garrett, the author of our book that we're covering Self-Care for Men I looked at his Instagram this morning. Does he have any tattoos? He has a ton of tattoos, gotcha okay, and so he's biased. I would say so, yes, he's on board. He's got a lot of tattoos. And one thing that I also remember learning from on the love line with Adam and Dr Drew was sometimes body modification. Tattoos, piercings, things like that can be a way for somebody who has had their bodily autonomy threatened or violated to sort of restake their ownership of their own body. Okay. So if someone has violated a boundary when it comes to your body, such as an abusive parent or whatever, sometimes a way that people can sort of soothe themselves with that, to say this is my body, not yours, is to make lifelong alterations to it.

Dan: 17:27

And along the lines of the self-care piece. If just like a memory could be bittersweet, if it's just pure taking your body back or something that just generates joy for you, a happy memory or a beautiful piece of art maybe that you had done as a child and you had it redone, that you were really proud of or your parents really proud of, and you put it on your body, it could generate good feelings of happiness as well. So in that respect, you wake up, you see that it brings joy to you and not necessarily a bittersweet memory. That's, I think, a form of self-care for sure.

Charles: 18:02

Yeah, I would agree, and I would say this is one of those areas where you know the mature person is able to say well, just because this isn't my preference doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Some people are into some things I'm not into. I'm into some things other people aren't into, and that's just the way that it is when I mean yeah, for me that can be difficult sometimes because I think, well, my way is the best way, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it my way. If I was taught a better way than my way, then that new way would become my way and I would do it that way instead. So, yeah, I try not to. Yeah, I don't like tattoos as far as putting them on my own body, and I try to maintain a neutral or appreciative view when other people are proud of theirs and they want to show it off. Do you? Do you really? I do try.

Dan: 18:51

Yes, you try, I try. Have you ever been successful at that, by the way? Yes, I have, you have.

Charles: 18:56

Okay, I have. Okay, I can throw out a oh. Good for you. I'm glad you treated yourself to that. I almost believed you there.

Dan: 19:07

You're allowed to have opinions. It's okay. This is our podcast.

Charles: 19:10

Yes. Don't be afraid to say yeah you don't like them, that's fine, but there's also a very I don't like all of them a very legitimate idea of never yuck someone else's yum.

Dan: 19:22

What, I'm sorry you mean. Don't march somebody else's mellow. That's what I've heard. That's that too.

Charles: 19:28

I have not yuck somebody else's yum. Don't yuck somebody else's yum. That's a new one. Yeah, I've heard that in. I've heard that online, and usually it's in the realm of kinks and sexual turn-ons.

Dan: 19:42

Oh, okay, okay.

Charles: 19:43

When somebody tells you they're into something don't be like, ugh, yeah, because like that's the thing that does it for them and you're looking down your nose at them. Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do.

Dan: 19:52

I guess it's more extreme than don't march somebody's mellow.

Charles: 19:54

I've never heard don't march somebody's mellow, yeah. If I heard that I'd be like that's dumb.

Dan: 19:58

Yeah, from the TV show where they're getting stoned or something like that. I think it was.

Charles: 20:01

Anyway, yeah Sounds like lazy writing, as opposed to our show, which has not written at all. Okay, so let's take you through the process. If you, if this is a form of self-care that you want to get into as a first timer, you don't have any tattoos and you decided you're going to make the leap, do your research, get on the internet and look for pictures and ideas that do something for you as far as oh, that looks good. I'd like that.

Dan: 20:27

Yeah, he's recommending Instagram. Yeah.

Charles: 20:30

I'm sure tattoo Instagram is a rich source Sure. I spend my time on ASMR Instagram, mental health Instagram, guys catching lobsters or trimming cow hooves Instagram, but not tattoo Instagram.

Dan: 20:47

All right, I'm going to leech catching lobsters. All right, we'll come back to that in the lobster chapter in this book.

Charles: 20:52

Yeah, but I really. There's a great account by a guy who's like a third generation of lobster men up in Maine. Yeah, okay, he makes lots of videos and they're all amazing, interesting. I'm curious to watch one. Oh, jump rope Instagram. That's another one that I spent a lot of time on too. I like watching the really good jump ropers, okay. So, yeah, some of this stuff. Either do your research. A lot of sentences, be prepared to articulate to the artist why you want a certain piece and what it means to you. And when I read that I'm like, oh my God, that sounds miserable, why?

Dan: 21:27

Well, I bet you this sounds more miserable to you. The section here on keeping you in open mind, the last sentence there never tried to strong arm them doing something they don't want to do, but let them be creative, yeah, which means you got to let go of that control, yeah, right, so that's like where it's kind of like, yeah, they're talking about how it's like a partnership with the artist.

Charles: 21:50

It's not one of those where Except for the part where I'm giving them money and they're giving me a service.

Dan: 21:55

Right and you're at your canvas that you're wearing it for the rest of your life. Yes, yeah, there's a lot about this whole process Like now it sounds like you're almost making some sort of commitment to this artist, because they're talking about this is like a you know a collaboration. Thank you, that's the word I was looking for, yeah.

Charles: 22:17

Yeah, I'm fairly anti-collaboration in most scenarios, but it's something like this. It's like wait a second. Yeah, I don't need you to give me the money here. I don't need you to understand why this means a lot to me.

Dan: 22:30

I just need you to put the. You got to give them artistic license to do what they want to do, otherwise I'm sure you don't have to.

Charles: 22:38

I'm sure there's somewhere you could just say I want it done exactly this way.

Dan: 22:40

I'm sure If you can't agree to that, then I'll find somebody else, I'm sure, but the expert here, the recommendation from the guy who's got lots of tattoos saying hey, you know, you might not get the result you want if you strong arm them.

Charles: 22:54

Yeah, so yeah, this whole, this whole collaborative artistic process, I wonder if they make 3D printers that can do tattoos.

Dan: 23:03

Yet, like you know what I'm saying, like climbing the printer, maybe, or you put your arm in there or whatever, and it's you know. That way you can get exactly what you want and you don't have to worry about collaborating with anybody.

Charles: 23:17

Yeah, I feel like the kind of people that would be into tattoos are not the kind of people that would be into having a robot do it Like I. I've thought that, like the discussion with the artist, the pain, like I think all of that factors into the enjoyment of the people who are really into getting tattoos, Like if it didn't hurt and you didn't have to talk to some guy about why you wanted what you wanted. I feel like some people with tattoos just wouldn't bother getting them.

Dan: 23:44

I agree Absolutely. I bet you there's a, there's a market for that, though.

Charles: 23:51

Yeah.

Dan: 23:51

Especially if it could be like something reasonably inexpensive that somebody could do at their house, have like at their house, because 3D printers these days aren't crazy expensive. So yeah, maybe I wonder, I wonder about the hygiene, the maintenance, yeah, I mean, you probably need some sort of FDA approval and you gotta yeah, yeah.

Charles: 24:10

Anyway, so interesting thought yeah.

Dan: 24:12

I have them once in a while.

Charles: 24:13

Okay. So yeah, find an artist you vibe with. Well, I don't vibe with anybody, so that's out. Think about placement. Yeah, obviously there are some places you could get a tattoo that will impact your ability to get jobs in the future.

Dan: 24:28

The neck man? I don't know. I see a lot of people with neck tattoos and I just like Tyson Holy cow. Yeah, I mean, I think he was one of the first people to really show that.

Charles: 24:40

Yeah, I mean, if you're, if you're just a, if you're retired boxer who seemingly has enough money, or or you're big enough personality, then I guess it doesn't matter if you have a tattoo on your face, right? Yeah, like Chakotay from Star Trek Voyager, he had a face tattoo. He was a Native American though, so I guess, okay, that was part of it. But yeah, they, I mean the face is. When I see that's a commitment, when I see somebody with a tattoo on their face, I'm like, wow, you, that is a commitment. Yeah, I refer to face tattoos as everlasting job stoppers.

Dan: 25:19

As of compared to everlasting gobstopper from the original Charlie Well, it was really.

Charles: 25:26

The original movie was Willy Wonka, yeah, and then it was Charlie, and then Charlie, and then I think the new ones, willy Wonka and something. Okay, so, yeah, the Gene Wilder version. The book probably features the everlasting gobstopper as well. Yeah, I think, I think so. I've never read it. Yeah, I got, I got enough out of that world from the movie. I asked questions. Most artists will ask for a consultation before tattooing you, especially if you want a custom design. So then, yeah, more, more meetings, meetings and and vibes and discussions and collaborations.

Dan: 26:02

It is, and you're right, I think it's just it really is. This whole experience, yeah, yeah, I wish that of us have undergone.

Charles: 26:10

Yeah, I wish I could understand and appreciate it more, but I'm just not wired for it. So keep an open mind. Like you said, be prepared for aftercare. Okay, so let's get into the aftercare. There's a lot of work to first. Two weeks are the most critical, but it takes around a month for it to completely heal. So I guess within a few hours you're supposed to wash it and keep it washed twice a day for about two weeks and I would say listen, go the person you're spending all this time and money with. They may have a program that is different from what the author of this book is saying and I would probably listen to them. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. Then, after you wash it, apply thin layer of healing balm several times a day for the first few days. This is usually some sort of an ointment. The tattooed area will scab over and the scabs. You have to wait for the scabs to fall off. I had no idea that was a part of this process. I didn't either.

Dan: 27:06

But have you seen these scarring? It's not even a tattoo, where they basically get their skin cut or burned or whatever that like the top of a loaf of bread, except on your skin. Yeah, that's exactly what it looks like, and it just does not look attractive. I don't understand that, and that's not something you really. I mean I guess you kind of cover that up Can't remove it, though I don't think.

Charles: 27:30

Yeah, I mean scar scar scar, scar, scar, scar scar right.

Dan: 27:33

Like you know what tattoos. Not enough of a commitment for me. I need something that's going to last forever, like no matter what happens, and I mean I don't. I would love to understand the state of mind of somebody who decides to do that.

Charles: 27:49

Yeah, Okay, I guess it's. You know, having this experience and remembering it for the rest of my life matters more than any of the downsides or the drawbacks. So yeah, I've never felt that way about something. But I mean, I'm sure people use it as a form of therapy as well in some way, A lot of things are used as a form of therapy by people who don't understand what the word therapy means.

Dan: 28:18

So I guess maybe it temporarily make you feel better. Yes, that's what we're going to find therapy as a soothing mechanism. Yeah, correct.

Charles: 28:27

Yeah, you're offering your yoga, your bike rides, your jujitsu, your tattoos, your scarification. Yeah, those are soothing mechanisms, they're not therapy. Yeah, because I wish, I wish there were things like. I wish I could just go for a bike ride instead of arguing with Renata about her 48 hours. I can't sleep, but if it was the same, I would be going for bike rides. But it's not fair. Okay, then I guess, after you've finished your ointment phase, you can get into the lotion phase.

Charles: 28:59

This is post scab and yeah, I mean lotion. Again, I'm, I'm probably. I probably wouldn't do it, even if I had a tattoo that I cared about keeping nice. I'm not slathering lotion all over my body because it's just, there's almost like if you told me you could live to be 150 years old if you just lotion your whole body every morning, I'd be like man. I'm good, I'm fine with the actuarial tables as they stand and I'm going to try. I'm going to try my luck.

Charles: 29:28

It's well, oh my God, dude. Yeah, so rubbing lotion on something? Yeah, I mean, I used to. Yeah, my Ariel used to always try to get me to put on sunscreen at the beach. Yeah, and I was just like I was like a bait, like a little kid. I was like no, I'll do it later. I just got out of the water. I'm still wet, I don't want to put it on right now, and then I would just not put it on and eventually get a nice sunburn. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, I Florida's tough. I'm working on it. I'm working on letting go of some of those you know tendencies that have not been serving me, but it is yeah.

Dan: 30:03

So I'm actually going through a program. Now they talk about the second. The second phase of that is being disenchanted with whatever you're doing is a big part of changing your current habits and you can't go from just recognizing you know that you're doing something and then resisting it, resisting the urge. Part of that is you need to realize the negative consequences and really experience those negative consequences and feel them too, and that's and he calls it disenchantment, and that you know that that skin peeling off to be part of that process.

Charles: 30:37

I like that, I like that part of it.

Dan: 30:39

Have you? When was the last time you've had that in the terms of it's extremely painful?

Charles: 30:44

The skin peeling. No, the peeling of the skin is after it's already dead.

Dan: 30:48

Okay, yeah, I guess I'm relating to my own experience where I was in like my whole back was completely burned and the skin was peeling off like that day.

Charles: 30:57

Oh, it was yeah. It was yeah, that's real bad.

Dan: 31:01

It was a bad. My buddy, mike, who we both know yeah, his mom took us to Ocean City, maryland, which is far enough south of New Jersey to where the sun is a lot stronger, and grown up as a kid in New Jersey, I wore sunscreen once in a while and most of the time that my mom was putting it on me I never really burned. I didn't know what burning was. Went down to Ocean City, laid out in the beach for a couple of hours and, yeah, burned pretty fricking bad. Oh, that sounds rough.

Charles: 31:27

Yeah, I don't like the pain of the burn, but a week later when I'm peeling, I like that.

Dan: 31:32

It was like that day and that night where I was completely burned. That's insane. I've never had that.

Charles: 31:35

Yeah, that's got to be at least a second degree burn right Probably Yikes.

Dan: 31:41

I was just. I couldn't even like sleep on the bed, like lying on my back. It was so bad.

Charles: 31:45

Yeah, it's probably just yeah, thinking how bad third degree burns are. It's probably like just past the line between first and second, where the same day you start to blister.

Dan: 31:53

So I wasn't going to put on any sunscreen. His mom goes Danny, put on some sunscreen, squirted on my chest and so I had to rub it in. So I was like I'm not going to rub it. I was 13 and I rub it in with my hand and I left my hand there or whatever, and pulled my hand away. So I guess there was a goop of sunscreen and a handprint on my chest right. So I singed everywhere except for the handprint. Best part was it lasted a year. You could see that outlet because I burned so bad. You could see the outline of that hand. And the even better part was I was on the high school swim team, so I'm a 14.

Charles: 32:33

So everybody got to see it. Wow yeah, so that was fun. All right, that's the talk about feeling a little bit. I'll remember that next time I don't want to put sunscreen on.

Dan: 32:43

So next time you want to be, you feel a little bit self-conscious. Imagine being a high school kid wearing Speedos With a big handprint on your chest. And you know it's co-ed swim team. Yeah of course. Yeah, that did wonders for my self-esteem, wow.

Charles: 32:56

That does sound rough, dan, holy cow. And I'm still here to talk about it. Yeah, I didn't kill you, so that's good, but boy that, yeah, that does sound. So yeah, I noticed that, that procrastination of not want like I run into it. So Monday is my day for TRT.

Charles: 33:17

I do my testosterone replacement therapy on Mondays and the plan is when, when I want to do it is, I get out of the shower, I dry off, put on my underpants, then sit down and, you know, give myself my, my shop.

Charles: 33:32

But what happens is sometimes I will forget and I'll get, I'll get all the way dressed, and then I'll be like, okay, well, now I'll just do it when I get home tonight, and then I never do, and Monday turns into Tuesday, and sometimes it turns into Wednesday.

Charles: 33:45

And so, you know, I, I was prescribed the amount I was prescribed once a week, every week, and so when I don't do it, then I notice differences in attitude, appetite, my ability to sleep, I mean all that stuff is impacted, sure. And so this last Monday is the first time where, even though I got fully dressed, when I remembered, I was like you know what, and I got completely undressed and gave myself my shot and then got dressed again and then, you know, got in my car and went to work and I felt so much better, knowing, okay, it's not going to be, maybe I'll do this tonight, maybe it'll bleed over into tomorrow, maybe it won't get done till Wednesday. It felt good to just go through the hassle of getting undressed and sticking the shot in my thigh and then putting my clothes back on and it's like, okay, it's checked off the list, now I don't have to think about it.

Dan: 34:31

And that's great. I mean that will help reinforce that habit Next time. It's the opposite of the disenchantment, it's the enchantment, it's the hey. I felt so much better by doing this. Next time you're just kind of running on autopilot, you might, it might trigger you to go oh, hey, I really need to. This is the next logical step. And Again with habits, that's that's the thing is we get so distracted with our conscious brain. We operate most of time on those habits. So it really pays to Invest in planning them, yeah, practicing them, rehearsing the environment, prepare the environment. So you don't need to think when you're stressed, you just do what you need to do to make yourself feel as good as you can possibly feel. Yeah.

Charles: 35:16

Yeah, it's. I mean, it does seem like the secret to the life you want is Making the things that you find important and beneficial for yourself, making them easier than the alternative. Yeah, so if doing the, the things you want to do for yourself and you believe you should do for yourself, are Easier than blowing them off, then you'll do them. Yep, and, and yeah, I was just one of the men's groups on Facebook I participate in this morning. The guy was somebody posted like how do you guys manage to stay motivated? And I'm like you don't, you can't rely on motivation. That's what I learned from tiny habits.

Charles: 35:52

It's like motivation is a fickle master where some days you got it and some days you don't, and it's hard to tell Sometimes what's gonna like. I don't even know the factors. Why do I wake up some day super motivated to do this stuff I need to do, and other days I just want to lay in bed and watch videos on YouTube and not even get out of bed? I mean, yeah, most, I would say most days, when I get to bed on time, my alarm goes off and I'm out of bed like a rocket boom. Let's, let's get the day started for me. That's weigh in, put the coffee on and get that business, take care. But then other days I just wake up and don't feel like it and I Don't know what causes that. There's so many variables in the human mind and in the human life. You don't know. So you've got to assume that tomorrow You're gonna wake up not feeling motivated to do anything and you still somehow have put systems in place where it's easy to do the things you need to do.

Dan: 36:40

Yeah yeah, I'm reading another great book on habits right now. It's called good habits bad habits, by Wendy Wood, and she gave me this idea of we're actually two people. One is our conscious operating self and other is the unconscious operating self that basically Operates just on habits and and our routines. So she basically says look, you know, our unconscious self doesn't know what a good habit or a bad habit is, it's just gonna operate based on what our normal behavior routines are. And so what happens is the more stressed we are, the more we're going to rely on the unconscious Habit routines, because that requires a lot less energy. That's, those routines, those things that we're used to doing, are relegated to the part of our brain that don't require as much energy. So whenever we're stressed about anything, we're rushed, we're upset.

Charles: 37:33

We're gonna fall back into our habits.

Dan: 37:34

We're. We're not physically well, maybe we didn't sleep as well, maybe we were up too late that night. Whatever that is, we're gonna fall back to our habits. So, while we are conscious, in a week let's Set ourselves that other part of ourselves up for success and start Practicing routines and and behaviors that will serve us when we need them to serve us, and so that's kind of that's a new approach, a new way of thinking about it for me.

Charles: 38:01

Yeah, I like that. So, good habits, bad habits, and how it's bad habits, okay, all right. Yeah, cool, good book. I'll try to remember to put a link to that book in the in the show notes. Speaking of books, before we get back to the chapter, I did start the on purpose person and it is really good so far, and it's also a very short listen on audible it's less than four hours, which great. I buy some books audible. Sometimes I don't even look at their length before I buy them and then I'll open it up. It'll be like 25 hours on some stuff and it's like, oh my gosh, so this is gonna be Driving to Jackson, will drive to st Pete, driving everywhere I drive for the next three or four weeks is gonna be this one book. And yeah, I, I feel part of me is like I wish I didn't spend an audible credit on something that's only four hours long. But part of me the other part of me is like, yes, it's only four hours long.

Dan: 38:48

That's. That's a drive to LA, that's not a drive to Jackson.

Charles: 38:53

And I did when I, when I drove out to Yosemite from I drove from Tampa to Yosemite National Park I had downloaded Dan Brown's last Fiction book Okay, I forget which one it was, but he's, like you know, davinci code guy. So, yeah, I listened to that like the whole drive out there. It was, yeah, it was. I was glad for the length at that point. But, yeah, some some of the like a self-help book or a nonfiction book for 25 hours, that is a big chunk to bite off and yeah, that's that's tough sometimes to make it through that. Oh for sure. Okay, so it's basically the long-term care guide is what you should be doing to your skin all the time, whether you have tattoos or not, which is exfoliate, moisturize, wear sunscreen. And then the last item collagen. I've heard a lot about collagen, so I decided to do a little research this morning. Yeah, there is there is no evidence that said there's no solid.

Charles: 39:54

The only studies that have been done have been quite small and have been sponsored by companies that sell collagen supplements. Yeah, and so the the evidence that eating collagen by putting it in your mouth, that that is going to increase the collagen in your skin or in your bones or anything like that your joints, is not there. It has not been proven yet that that actually helps.

Dan: 40:14

Interesting, yeah, so it is a very popular Supplement yeah, absolutely. And expensive it can be, it can't. Yeah, now I cover my bases. I found a fairly inexpensive one called great lakes and it's not the fancy new ones that one's been around for years and years and years Before it really got popular and became like a designer type of yeah, now they're putting chocolate and vanilla and all other stuff in with the Colleges. It's just straight up collagen. It's fairly inexpensive, so Just throwing that out there, yeah, yeah.

Charles: 40:44

So, going back to the the supplements chapter, briefly, that we talked about some of the people that I Read and respect their their opinion is the only supplements you need to take as far as both as a man, getting stronger and aesthetically pleasing essentially whey protein, caffeine and BCAA's, and that's pretty much the only thing when it comes to building strength and and a muscular physique. Creatine wasn't one of them. Oh, creatine, to thank you, yes, creatine. So there's those, creatine, those four, yeah, creatine is like the most studied supplement.

Dan: 41:22

So, and I mean even the whey protein, I feel like and I've run into this, I'm guilty of this is I sometimes have an added control appetite.

Dan: 41:30

Now, granted, I'm a type on diabetic, so I'm messing with insulin, and that I slept in and growl on everything else, yeah. But I've also noticed that if I've tried to substitute a meal with a Whey shake or protein shake, I Doesn't hold me over in terms of satiation. I tend to get hungrier more often. So I'm thinking, if you're trying to, like, get stronger and and not necessarily lose weight, it might better serve you to have as many meals as possible and then supplement with, like, a whey protein shake if you're not getting enough calories. But if you're trying to lose weight, right, I think you're better serve eating real food as much as possible, because much nutrients, real nutrients as possible, rather than Substituting a shake. Now, yes, a shake is if you've got the willpower and the control to not get hungry, and it's a great lower calorie option than a lot of you know Real foods and things like that, and that will help.

Charles: 42:30

But I think I mean the other benefit, that I realize it really should be a supplement and not necessarily a staple right?

Dan: 42:36

That's kind of what I'm saying.

Charles: 42:38

Yeah, I, I would. I See where you're coming from, but the the place I would disagree with you on is it's so much easier to track your macros and your calories when you're just shaking up a shake, then it is. It is you're either eating out or even cooking for yourself sometimes. So that that's, I mean, the one of the big benefits I get out of the keto chow shakes is like okay, I know every one of these that I mix up is gonna be between 510 540 calories. I'm gonna know how much proteins in it, I'm gonna know how much fats in it, I'm gonna know how many carbs are in it and, yeah, you know when.

Charles: 43:11

And again, like we've talked about before, with my own weight loss experience going from 30% body fat down to around 15, where I'm at now, it's Again, I don't want to say this to discourage anybody who's who's bigger than they want to be and having trouble with it it's so much easier to lose weight when you have a lot to lose. Then it is when you don't have much to lose and if, if you're somebody who's up around that 25, 30, 35% body fat, literally cutting out Regular soda, cutting out most breads and sugars from your diet and going for some walks, especially if you're a guy and you're under our ages. You know you're not mid 40s yet. It's that easy. Just switch to diet soda, cut most of the sugar out of your diet, don't eat so much bread, and get 10,000 steps a day.

Charles: 44:01

And that's exactly what I did to go from like 215 pounds down to 175 pounds. Yeah, and that's fantastic. In the middle of it, it felt like this is a hassle, this is a pain, brother, now that I'm trying to lose like the last 13 or 14 pounds that I, yeah, need to lose or want to lose, I don't need to lose them. I'm a good, good enough shape as it is, but I want to lose an extra 13 pounds. It's so hard compared to that first 13 pounds I lost when I was trying to get from 215 to that down to 200.

Dan: 44:31

It's like, oh, I wish it was that easy, but anyway yeah, and I mean, that being said, you need experiment with the tools that don't work for you. Yeah, I'm used to tracking my food, so for me, it's very easy. That's not a factor in terms of how much I need to track. Okay, guys, for you, where you weren't tracking, as as often it's, it's a little bit more of an effort. So, yeah, for you, the the benefit of having that, and you also have a little bit better Control over your hunger and your appetite than I do. So for you, that tool of a protein shake and every end and keto chow Works better for you than it does for me. Yeah, for me it's. I feel like I need a little bit more volume, so that's gonna come from some vegetables and some real food rather than just that the shake. The tracking doesn't matter to me.

Charles: 45:14

Yeah, and the other thing is, you know we've talked about before your taste palette is different from mine and I would, I would say, more tolerant than mine.

Dan: 45:20

Hey, I'm. I take it as compliment that you even said I had to taste palette.

Charles: 45:28

You can get yourself into trouble with some foods that I never could, including like keto chow, like right, for example. I I can most of the Keto or low carb ice creams that they sell. I can get those and keep them in my freezer and and never worry about getting myself into trouble with those at all.

Dan: 45:45

Yeah, those are they do not taste good to me. Oh, have you had the rebel?

Charles: 45:50

I think I have I rebels, the only one where they legitimately bump up the fat content. Okay, I might need to try that. I don't know that you might not need to try it. But so they bump the fat way up and it's, it's pretty, it's like creamy, it's so good like the halo top and stuff like yeah.

Dan: 46:08

Yeah, I mean it tastes like sunscreen and I just wanted to get back to this chapter about the sunscreen because I finally looked it up From our last.

Charles: 46:15

Oh, it's always like yeah.

Dan: 46:16

I was not helpful at all with. Oh, there's a cancer-causing agent, so I looked it up and I got a little bit more information about it. So there have been a lot of studies From consumer lab comm that found benzene. That's right, I remember in different sunscreens and it was not listed in the ingredients because it's not part of the ingredients. It's part of the manufacturing process.

Dan: 46:38

Ah but they said it didn't matter whether it was a spray or a lotion. They found it in a lot of a lot of different sunscreens and the funny thing was it was From some of the major brands like Nutrigena, copper, tone, banana Boat, but not all of them. There are only certain types of the sunscreens that those companies have that tested positive for benzene, and there's no safe level of benzene Allowed by any of our government agencies which are pretty liberal with that stuff. The other, the other piece of that, is something called Octocrylene, which actually is Degrades into a cancer-causing substance, and so there are some sunscreens out there that say they're octocrylene free. Bottom line is the only thing the FDA says is absolutely safe.

Dan: 47:25

One of the things we talked about it's mineral was the mineral of titanium dioxide or the the zinc oxide, and If you're gonna go that route, don't get some that have been it. Nano have nanoparticles.

Dan: 47:38

Yeah because, especially with the, the sprays, they're bad for breathing. So try to find a low nanoparticle mineral based sunscreen to use and One of the ones that I got that doesn't turn white. It's called badger, and there's a few on Amazon that they sell. Badger is one of the brands that that has worked well for me, and they do have some stuff that turns white on your skin. They have stuff that doesn't. There's a. There's quite a few out there that I mean even the big companies now have mineral based and I think a lot of them Don't turn your skin totally without that crazy white. But, like you said, the difference is the zinc and the, the titanium dioxide. They block the UV rays, whereas the other ones they absorb the, the radiation, and that's the, the big difference. So, yeah, when comes sunscreen? Guys, check out. There's a long table consumer lab about common. I think it's for you. Don't think you need to be a member. I think it's just kind of like a public service type of thing.

Charles: 48:36

Yeah, the, the thing that I always I Mean cancer. Cancer-causing is certainly a buzzword, and that applies to a lot of things. My question is always okay, so did they take a mouse and drown him in the substance and leave him there for a week? And then, you know, they didn't. They did their necropsy on him and he had cancer. So this, this is cancer causing. You know, it's always like okay, well, how much? How much does it actually correlation or affect a human? Yeah, and, and the quantities that they use in some of that testing to determine that something is cancer causing, right, sometimes, you know, like the sucralose study we talked about a few weeks ago, it's it's like okay, if you eat eight times your body weight in sucralose, you might get cancer right and I think, doesn't help me very much, right?

Dan: 49:24

well, I mean, and I think in those cases they do allow. So sucralose isn't bad. It's still allowed in in in foods, in this case the benzene. They said no amount is safe at all, so you can't. So they far as the government's concerns, you should never rub anything with any amount of benzene on your skin right, yes, or consume it in any way, and Even the companies that were making these products have recalled most of them.

Charles: 49:49

Mercury-based sunscreen said Lead. Lead based sunscreen a block. Everything, baby, yeah, even even x-rays, there you go. So there you go, um yeah.

Dan: 50:03

I don't have to worry about turning into a superhero. Then there you go right.

Charles: 50:06

I mean, am I? This is not rhetorical. Am I crazy to say that the way sunscreen feels on me and how nice the smell reminds me of the beach is more important than whether or not I get cancer? Does that make me crazy, dan? Because if I'm being completely honest, I really do feel that way. I was like I will take the risk of like. If it's on so many shelves, if so many people are getting this vaccine, how unsafe could it really be? I mean, that is legitimately the way I look at the world. Yeah, I'm probably gonna die a little sooner than I would otherwise, but so what?

Dan: 50:43

yeah, I mean, you know, that's that's the thing is, we don't have necessarily access to Be able to same thing. We were talking about how we have some stand-ups talking about, like Chris rock talking about relationships. I mean, how much exposure to relationships, as Chris rock, actually have to be able to say all people do this or all people do that Same thing with us when we're you know, do we have access? Oh, do we even bother taking the time to look up studies, even if they do exist or out there? That takes work and energy. Do I even know how to read a study? I should probably not, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah.

Charles: 51:14

So, yeah, I've got all these opinions and I and I share what has worked for me and why I've decided to do what I've done. Yeah, and people can be like, okay, well, charles seems kind of smart on other stuff, so maybe he's right about this. I'm gonna dig into it, or you can just do whatever I say I'm doing because I've got a life You're jealous of. But you know, keep in mind, I only share the good parts with you, not this, not the rough ones. No, you've shared some rough stuff for sure, yeah, so, anyway, that's. I think I think at that point again, we we've killed almost an hour talking about tattoos.

Charles: 51:47

You didn't think we could do it who have no tattoos. Nothing about the process, no, nothing about the experience, it's all just. You know the Entitled 40 year old white guys talking about subjects. They have no direct knowledge. If you find that entertaining, good for you, good for even better for us.

Dan: 52:05

Maybe, maybe, yeah we actually sold something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, someday.

Charles: 52:11

Yeah, but yeah, we're not selling anything yet. All we're doing is ask you to please subscribe or follow on your chosen podcast app or website. It would mean a lot to us, and you'll hear another Plea to do that After we finish the show. All right, anything else on tattoos, dan? Not today, maybe tomorrow. I probably will never learn another single thing about tattoos after today, so good for you. If you have something to add in a future episode, please do. All right, everybody, talk to you later. Wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely Follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.