Your Anti-Aging Arsenal

Embark on a transformative journey with us as we challenge the norms of masculinity and self-care. Dan and I delve into the myriad of anti-aging strategies for men, from the basic to the bold, and share our candid opinions on what works and what's just hype. But it's not just about looking good; it's about living vibrantly. I'm all set to chat about my anticipation for a high-stakes hike up Mount Whitney—if Lady Luck grants me a date. We'll swap stories on managing the rigors of high-altitude treks and the importance of being prepared for anything nature throws your way.

Ever wondered how to strike the perfect balance between self-development investments and their life-altering returns? Tag along as I consider diving into the fiery energy of Tony Robbins' "Unleash the Power Within" seminar, contemplating the cost versus the potential for pivotal change. As we navigate the landscape of men's health and anti-aging, we'll dissect topics like early anti-aging tactics, the underestimated power of a solid skincare regime, and the controversial realm of hormone replacement therapy. Plus, I'll share insights on the synergy between fitness, personal style, and a well-rounded diet that keeps the clock ticking in our favor.

The conversation takes a deeper cut as we scrutinize the impact of celebrity plastic surgeries on public perception and mental health. From Greta Van Susteren's post-trial transformation to Simon Cowell's startling new visage, we question the psychological effects of drastic changes in appearance. Pull up a chair for a robust discussion on the ethical responsibilities of plastic surgeons, the cultural pressures that fuel our quest for eternal youth, and the heartfelt stories that remind us of the delicate balance between self-improvement and self-acceptance. Join us for this compelling dialogue that dissects the complex layers of body image, surgery, and the pursuit of happiness in today's society.

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Hey everybody, charles here, welcome back to the mind flay masculine podcast. In this episode, dan and I will continue discussing self-care for men by Garrett months, and we're going to address some of the anti-aging options, mainly the ones that are focused on helping you to stay young looking or to look younger, and We'll cover which of those Interventions interest us and which ones do not interest us, and where Dan and I differ on those topics. So Enjoy, please follow or subscribe in your chosen podcast app and you can also Watch our smiling faces on YouTube as we discuss this and other topics on our YouTube channel. Just look for mindfully masculine, thanks Good morning still Charles.

Charles: 0:48

Good morning, oh yeah, almost afternoon. Dan, how are you? I'm well, go well I I I'm looking forward to this chapter on anti-aging, but first I'm sometimes gonna talk about it. Remember what it was? Okay, I talked about my upcoming Crazy trips. I 23 days, I'll know if I got them out Whitney Lottery. Okay, I'll be loading up my Z3 and driving across the continent to Northern California. And why are we driving? Cuz? I don't want to.

Dan: 1:20

I mean, I don't like checking bags and I like, because you, I like climbing out Whitney. Isn't war a grueling enough? You need to show up. It's absolutely exhausted.

Charles: 1:28

I will right now I will. I will do it quite a bit. Last time I drove to Yosemite in my Toyota Yaris Mmm, I was doing 13 hour days for the drive, so where I'm, 14 hour day drives to prove that I got it. Absolutely no, I will. I will limit myself to eight hours of driving on the after about there, so I will spend more days getting out there. I'll spend more days while I'm actually out at the, I think, the campground that you stay at before you start the hike. It's like it, 8,000 or 8,800 feet, so you can get a little more acclimated to the altitude. Okay, and yes, it'll be a long trip. If I, if I do it, it'll be Probably close to two weeks.

Charles: 2:14

Okay that's all right, yeah, and it'll be. It'll be a working vacation. I'll be bringing my laptop and working remotely. So the other thing about you know, having shorter driving days, I can have more time in the hotel room to deal with work.

Dan: 2:27

What does that climb look like in terms of length?

Charles: 2:30

hours. I don't remember the the number of miles. It's not a crazy number of miles, but the elevation changes significant. I'll go from around 8,000 to just under 15,000, so like 7,000 feet, I think I will. The hike up to the summit will be divided over two days, where I'll spend one night on the mountain and Then usually you can make the hike back down the mountain in a single day.

Dan: 2:59

What determines whether you make oh?

Charles: 3:03

so when you, when you buy the lottery ticket for like six dollars or whatever it's not very expensive they ask you what days you want to hike, it right, and so Everybody who enters the lottery gets a random Number of sign to them and then a random number generator picks, and then by the time your number gets picked Whatever you are in the order, then they look to see if any of the dates that you said you wanted to do it are still available.

Charles: 3:34

And they are, then they say then the highest. If multiple dates that you selected are available, then you get the highest one that's available and they say congratulations. But if, by the time they pull your number, all the dates that you have said you wanted to hike are have been given away to somebody else who also had those preferences which I, I request the the best dates, the dates that are right around the full moon of July, of August and September, like three days before and three days after, because If you're hiking at night which you know I'll try to minimize as much night hiking as I can but if you are hiking at night you want to hike with the werewolves with the werewolves.

Dan: 4:10

Yeah, you want to do a little protection.

Charles: 4:11

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean. Part of it is being able to see what wildlife might be around.

Dan: 4:16

Oh yeah, while you're hiking kind of amazing at that elevation. Yeah, I know that I.

Charles: 4:22

Know you can. You could pretty much drink the water after ten or eleven thousand feet. If you find water, oh nice, drink it, because, uh, no beaver fever Above the tree line, okay, giardia, where the beavers will poop in the water and the bacteria will really mess with you. That that stops being a problem once you get high enough, because beavers don't live that high. So if you find water, there's no animals big enough with the kind of bacteria in their tummies.

Dan: 4:51

Have you, have you heard of life straw? I have, so I'm just curious if that we would would solve that problem under the 10,000 feet.

Charles: 4:59

I think it does. When I hiked half dome the the guide that was in our party, he told us he doesn't trust any mechanical solutions for water purification. He only uses chemicals. Okay, it's like, because chemicals don't break. Yeah, it's like you drop a tablet in a cup and shake it up a little bit and 100 times out of 100 it's gonna work. Yeah, where you know the, the straws and the mechanical filters and stuff like that, something could happen. You could trip, fall, you land on your back, it gets crunched and you even know, and you don't even know, right, oh, yeah, until you go to use it and it might even function what you think is is correctly, and then something gets through the filter that wasn't supposed to get through the filter and then you're pooping your guts out on the side of a mountain, right?

Dan: 5:44

So I got your guts out at home is one thing, yeah, but outside of mountain, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's where I draw the line.

Charles: 5:50

I'll move with my gun on Wednesday, but I'm out of trouble. So yeah, I, I would probably. Yeah, it does. It does affect the taste a little bit, but when you're thirsty enough for the water, yeah it's yeah.

Dan: 6:04

Well, we all know how important the taste is for you, so if you're willing to, do it.

Charles: 6:08

I mean, that's said, I took those hydration tabs on that With me last time. That had the electrolytes and all that stuff and it was supposed to be like pineapple, coconut or whatever and I drank the. I tried it the first time and I was like this is just awful. I I will just stick with my normal water. I may I have done just like country time lemonade before, where it's the full sugar Pink lemonade the country time makes and that at least tastes good whether it's hot or cold and it's got a little something extra that the water doesn't have mostly carbs. But yeah, that I'll do. But any, any of the Liquid IV or any of the tabs or any of this, yeah, make for hikers and yeah, endurance athletes doesn't taste good enough.

Dan: 6:53

I just got some. I just got some hydration packs from redmond real salt and it's got some flavoring in it. I'll give you a couple to try and see if you like them. But they've got that. You know the electrolytes in there and actually there's no sugar, but it's just straight up electrolytes and some flavoring in there.

Charles: 7:07

So all right, they're cheap enough that, yeah you. Yeah, problem with me essentially flushing them down the toilet. No, I will try one and report back, so yeah it's good.

Dan: 7:16

Do you know how many slots they provide for the lottery on each day?

Charles: 7:20

at some point I heard it was like 200 a day or something like that. I Don't remember. If that, I Don't know that's entirely accurate. I don't know if it's changed at all. I mean, probably National Park budgeting or national forest budgeting is probably a factor with how many you know they. They probably have a plan for okay, here's how many people are gonna need to rescue, based on how many people go out on the mountain. Here's how many people we can rescue, yeah, and so they probably limit it based on a bunch of those factors that I don't know and then, if you go one year, do they track that and say you're not eligible?

Charles: 7:53

Good question, I don't think so years or anything like that, or I think that it is. I Don't think. I don't like it has a memory. I think you can. You can apply every year, and I know so. This will be my fifth year.

Charles: 8:07

My first year I won, but I Didn't know what I was doing as far as picking the dates, and then I researched. You know, okay, what are the issues I've run into if I go on this date and it was like, okay, that's not a good date to go. It's, it was either too early, where there would still be snow on the mountain, or too late, that the snow would be back, or something like that, and it wasn't close enough to the full moon. So I was like, alright, I'm not gonna go because this is too, there's too much of a hassle. And then so Since then I've lost the last four, but for half of those I had applied with my ex for the two of us to hike it together. So you know, you double the number of people you're trying to get permits for stop and you cut your odds down by at least half, or yeah, maybe, maybe more than that. Right, you know, because it's a group, that they that would stay together.

Charles: 8:55

So this year will be just me and I picked the right dates. But they're also the in-demand dates but I, for whatever reason, I feel lucky like I might get it this year. Yeah, good luck, man. Thank you It'll. Yeah, I've got some big trips planned. I don't know when I want this to happen. I'm definitely going to Europe at the beginning of August, so if I get the end of July as my window to hike, then we may be flying out, renting a car and shipping my tent and sleeping bag and stuff like that out there and having to. Just you know, I might not have the time where I can afford the round trip road trip, so I may have to fly. I don't want to drive one way and then fly back, because one way car rental is still the biggest frigging racket where it is. They get you so much I mean.

Dan: 9:54

Another possibility is taking a train right, I do like taking trains, but it might be able to get everything with you if you're taking a train it would take, or logistically, if it would make sense to come, if they have the train routes that would work for you, coming from Orlando, you know.

Charles: 10:12

Yeah, that's a good question. I might have to. I think you generally have to go from Orlando to DC or Chicago first and then pick up whatever heads west from one of those. It may make more sense for me just to check a big suitcase. The weight shouldn't be too bad because all the equipment that I've already purchased is designed to be lightweight, because it's going to be on my back for two days, so I don't think I would go over the weight. But I may have to borrow a big suitcase from you because I don't even own anything bigger than a carry on.

Charles: 10:41

And then I could probably load it all up into that, pay the 80 bucks or whatever to check it and then just leave it in the car and live out of that suitcase while I'm there and then check it on the way back. So, yeah, that may be the route that I have to go and then I guess probably fly to. I might be in Tampa area by then. I may be flying from the west coast to San Francisco or wherever the closest major airport is to. Yeah, in your national forest, I don't know, we'll see.

Charles: 11:10

But yeah, so I've got the definitely, um, mount Whitney hike. If I get a spot, go to Europe for sure, travel's already bought for that. And then hopefully you and I will go see Tony Robbins when he comes to Newark in uh in November for the uh unleash the power within conference that he does. I uh, I'm waiting for him to release some of the pricing, or I might actually reach out to them and say, hey, I know it's on the site yet, but give me an idea so I can start budgeting for this thing.

Dan: 11:40

Yeah, because they probably know we get that second mortgage going.

Charles: 11:44

It's not going to be that expensive, tony Robbins, you know, no, no, no, the date with destiny is a super expensive one. That's the one that, uh, I think it lasts for five days or seven days or something, and it's like multi thousands of dollars to go to that one, where this one's certainly under a thousand and it could be a lot under a thousand, Um, and it's three days. And, yeah, the date with destiny is the one that the Netflix did. You watch the Netflix story about him? I did not. It's good, I am not your guru. That's, uh, about Tony Robbins and they. He basically lets a film crew cover the whole date with destiny conference and you see some stories, real, real good stuff. I, really, it was a very, it was a very moving uh, documentary to watch and I don't know, I'll check it out. It was still on Netflix, but, uh, watching that is what got me thinking. Okay, I got to go to one of these. So we'll see I'm, I'm, I've heard all good things and I might even walk on the hot coals.

Charles: 12:43

Good for you. Yeah, I've heard, uh, I've heard they've had some trouble sub years where with the temperature of the coals would be a little too high and some people have gotten some burn feet, so I'll bring some, uh, first aid stuff. I mean, I mean, what's, how bad could it be? I'm going to run across, it's going to be fine. You walk on your hands after that if you need to. Yeah, exactly, you're good, and you didn't put it, spent all those years in gymnastics or nothing, okay, so that's, those are my big trips planned for the rest of the year. Um, anti-aging day, and start before it's too late, because there is no magic product that will erase wrinkles once they're formed. That's what he says.

Dan: 13:17

Well, I mean, nothing erases wrinkles, but between Botox, a-slifts and stuff like that, there's some things that could be done.

Charles: 13:27

Yeah, we will. Uh, we will get to that soon. I um, a good skincare routine with the right ingredients will help slow the appearance of the wrinkles, so you don't wake up one morning looking like a raisin. Now see I, on one hand because I have some very strong facial muscles, which means I have some very deep creases, because I I work the face a lot. Yeah, I mean. All this time laughing at my own jokes has certainly given me some furrowed brow, and so I have the same thing from laughing at all your jokes.

Charles: 13:59

Yeah, yeah.

Dan: 14:01

My, my, my. I got some thick, thick, thick lines up here for sure it's.

Charles: 14:05

Uh, it's a problem that uh, predominantly men that I hang out have to deal with. Women not so much. Oh, a lot, a lot less laughter around my, my female friends and my yeah, significant others. Something comes out of my mouth doesn't provide quite the lack or for them if it doesn't, my guy for it.

Dan: 14:23

They probably have some wrinkle lines around their mouth. The frowning yeah, From the from the disgusted looks they have.

Charles: 14:29

Yeah, that, uh, that could be a problem. Um, so the advice is to be proactive instead of reactive. Uh, he also says, you know, basically we, we could stand to take a little bit of a page out of the ladies book when it comes to this stuff, which is yeah, just understand that if you want to stay useful looking for a long time, you have to put work into making that happen. It won't happen by accident. Now, obviously, we, we all do have different genetics and that will play a role. But you can either, uh, maximize your genetic potential for looking young and handsome or you can just piss it away. Yeah, um, I, I definitely, I mean, I, I am a man who looks older than I used to look, as, as we all do. But you know, thankfully, because I do care and take interest in, uh, my style and my physique and things like that Um, most of my friends would agree, especially when they see pictures of me when I was younger, that I look better now than I did when I was younger.

Dan: 15:29

Yeah.

Charles: 15:30

And so, um, that's kind of the difference between looking mature and distinguished or just looking old. This is based on how much work you're willing to put in, and the one thing that he doesn't mention in a chapter on anti-aging is, uh, hormone replacement therapy right, which is, uh, you know, you are kind of leaving some pretty valuable anti-aging on the table that really affects just about every system of a man's body, uh, including your, your skin and and how you look. So, um, that would be something I would recommend that all men of our age, and even quite a bit younger, uh go and get your testosterone levels checked. And if they are, well, number one is how are you feeling? Number two is if they are coming at the low end of what the consensus calls the normal range, then it's probably time for some supplementation.

Dan: 16:23

Yeah and again. Uh, to continue on with our pattern here, I'm going to get back to food again, and food affects your hormones. Yes, it does, it's fine. So eating like crap. Hormone levels are going to be off and the hormones affect every cell in your body.

Charles: 16:38

Yeah.

Dan: 16:39

You know, and it's all tied together. So when one hormone is out of whack, it could cause other hormones to be out of whack. Uh, and and if you don't have properly balanced hormones and you're constantly unbalancing them by eating the wrong things, yeah, that's why a lot of people look like crap when they get older, because they've been, they've been neglecting their body. Not just like he talks about exfoliation, moisturizing and, yeah, those are all topical things, but the root of it all is really your nutrition.

Charles: 17:09

Yeah, nutrition and other things you put in your body, such as cigarette, smoke, such as alcohol, I mean I guess you could count as kind of a nutrition of a sort. But, yeah, that will. Yeah, I will also. That will also wear things out faster than they would wear out otherwise, for sure.

Charles: 17:25

Um, I had heard uh somebody on Rogan years ago I don't know if it's Peter or T or somebody else who is in the anti-aging space, but they made the argument uh, essentially, if athletic performance is not a factor and all you're convinced, all you're concerned about, is maintaining health to a ripe old age, everyone should be on metformin. Oh, really, yes, I heard, I heard somebody in the longevity anti-aging space pretty much say that now he said, if you're a high performance athlete, it's going to impact how much you can live, to how far you can run and stuff like that. But if your main concern is just staying alive and staying healthy as long as you can get on metformin, I need to. I need to do a little digging on that. Yeah, I thought. I thought that was interesting that he said pretty much across the board. That is something for people to consider.

Dan: 18:13

Okay.

Charles: 18:14

Yeah, that, yeah, do some digging. I trust you to hear what Hooperman and others have to say about that. Yeah, I'm gonna make a little note. See, do I have? I didn't bring the pen and I'd give it to you. Yeah, I know that that, because that will increase your body's sensitivity to insulin pretty much no matter what your diabetic state is correct, that's my understanding. Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Yeah, so, yeah, food for thought. I look forward to hearing a report in a future introduction to an episode With what you find on that and since you know, with your history of dealing with diabetes, mm-hmm, you'll probably be able to sort out the horse crap a little bit better than I would when it comes to that stuff.

Charles: 18:58

Okay, so, as you get older, your skin is going to decrease its production of collagen. You're going to lose fat in your face. Your skin is gonna be looser, which means things are gonna get a little saggy and wrinkly compared to how they were when you were younger. For us, fellas, that tends to Shill around the eyes, which is definitely a problem area for me, and around the chin and neck, which is, again, benefit of testosterone. You grow a thicker beard and cover up your there you go saggy chin and saggy neck, so I don't think mine's saggy, but I still do have a little bit. It's like the last Body fat that I will ever lose is lower abs and the little pad right under my chip.

Charles: 19:36

Everybody has their spots. I know, I know, sucks. Why could it be my back, where you don't see it? I'm exactly exactly so. An anti-aging focus skincare routine isn't just about trying to make yourself look younger. It also is about feeling good and liking what you see in the mirror. And, as he recommends it, as we would certainly say, dan, A sustainable skincare routine is what you need, because the thing you will do is always better than the perfect thing you won't do yeah, and a lot of us get suckered into them.

Dan: 20:07

Oh yeah, I could see myself doing all that. That sounds great, definitely worth it.

Charles: 20:12

And then when you get to it, it's just doesn't happen, yeah, and you get overwhelmed to do nothing, yeah, yeah. One thing I picked up that I found interesting was there's a good chance that the face scrub that we're using might be too harsh and we should go to something that is only a chemical exfoliant and not a sort of mechanical exfoliant.

Dan: 20:31

Yeah, I actually just got some from the ordinary the CIA company that was mentioned. Yeah, yeah, for that I get my other skincare products from and it is a, an alpha hydroxy Acids, a glycolic acid, and it's basically just like a thin liquid that you put on at night that helps your skin turn over, helps get rid of the dead cells.

Charles: 20:50

Yeah. So I guess what these exfoliates doesn't burn or anything. So what these exfoliants do is they essentially Break the bond between your living skin cells and you're already dead skin cells, so that when you wash your face and when you just, you know, roll around and you know, in your sheets in your bed, the old skin cells will come off and not not stay stuck to your, your new skin cells. Yeah, yeah, and I mean Intuitively that makes sense, that it would.

Dan: 21:14

It would work in making you look better right, yeah, yeah, you're bringing the younger, newer skin cells to the surface, right I?

Charles: 21:20

do that, will you know, reflect light better and just look, look better. So, yeah, that makes sense. He does make another note, so exfoliating, moisturized sunscreen. We've talked about all that in the in the face care chapter. The only thing he does add is the suggestion of a vitamin C serum, because vitamin C is an antioxidant and he gets into free radicals and some some Scientific jargon that I don't care much about. But he says to integrate a vitamin C serum and you put it on your face After you're done cleaning your face, but before you put on your moisturizer. Mm-hmm, and I don't currently do that. I Might think about it Again, okay, okay, I did, I thought about it. I might do it, I might not. That's that's where I'm at right now. Do you have anything in your tool chest that specifically Bills itself as a vitamin C solution? Yeah, so I have a.

Dan: 22:11

I have a night cream that's a little bit thicker guys, when I'm feeling really dry, which happens here in Florida very easily to all the air conditioning. I'm definitely drier here than I have been anywhere else in the country and I need to. I just sometimes out of the shower, too, after I've washed my face. I need that like a little extra Deep Moisturizing, and I have a vitamin C cream that I put on.

Charles: 22:38

Okay, does it have retinol two or just by? It's just vitamins. Okay, gotcha, thanks. So retinol is the next one. What retinol does for us is it promotes that turnover of our old cells to new cells to old cells, old cells to new cells. And it said earlier that when we're young and our skins acting the way it's supposed to, that's like a 28 day period where your your skin cells get completely refreshed and as you get older, that Kind of stretches out more and more. And what retinol is supposed to do is get you back on Approximately that 28 day cycle of your skin cells turning over at the level they're supposed to, which makes sense. And it also kind of explains why Just using a retinol night cream Occasionally, like I do, probably isn't going to have much of an impact. It you would. You would think, okay, well, if it, if it puts that 28 day cycle back into her place, I'm probably gonna have to use this consistently for at least 28 days Before I can see the full benefit of it.

Dan: 23:39

I'm not sure, because he does mention there no retinol can be irritating to the skin, so I'm not sure if that's something that you just need to experiment with and see if you are Turning red from it and I've never seen any cut back.

Charles: 23:53

I'm missing an irritation or benefit when I just barely sort of sprinkle my night cream into my routine. But I do feel like, okay, it would make sense if I, if I use this consistently. He says start with it once a week to make sure that doesn't make your skin blotchy.

Charles: 24:07

Sure and then work your way up to you know, I would imagine, okay, let's do every six days, every five days, four days. I probably wouldn't do that, I would probably just put it on once and if I didn't have any blotches of 48 hours, I would just be like, okay, now this is an every night thing. I still haven't taken any steps to build that habit that we talked about a couple episodes ago, but it is something that you know is on my long list of things Charles ought to do for himself. We talked about sunscreen already and how it's important. He doesn't say here, but I've read other places, I think, earlier on 30 SPF or higher is what you want, and the higher the better. Yada, yada, yada. Most, most moisturizers that are made as as daytime or morning moisturizers will include SPF. I use a Sarah V moisturizer, michael sir of it.

Charles: 24:56

I was gonna say created by Michael Sarah. That was one of the better super bowl. I enjoyed that one as well. Yeah, I mean it's so. It's so great when something that is so that clear and that on the nose but hasn't occurred to you yet. Yeah, it occurred to somebody and they made a commercial out of it.

Dan: 25:12

Yeah, I mean I gotta give credit to either the writing or Michael, sir I.

Charles: 25:17

Leads an actor.

Dan: 25:17

So, but not all actors are good. Not all actors are funny and it's just his style. Yeah, it was pretty funny. Yeah, I mean the reason why you want to use the sunscreen is the vitamin C and the retinol can make you more sensitive to the skit, to the sun, so you could potentially burn.

Charles: 25:32

So another another advantage of using some sort of product with some sunscreen in there, if yeah, and keeping out those usey rays that are bad for your skin and cause mutations and Melanomas and things like that, especially if you're spending a lot of time out there. Let's talk about injectables. So I am. I Can't imagine I'm ever going to put any Botox or filler in my face. I, for my own preferences. Um, I am fairly anti intervention when it comes to, yeah, edits to the body. Okay, whether that's tattoos or Botox, or I mean it's kept me from getting breast implants for 46 years. Well, I guess, good for you being able to resist, because that's tempting.

Charles: 26:20

I guess it'd be 28 years since I was 18. Anyway. But yeah, I am not a fan of medical interventions for cosmetic reasons On myself or typically the people that I'm attracted to. As someone who doesn't share that position, yeah, I'm exactly.

Dan: 26:40

My girlfriend literally told me, like yesterday or the day before, that she's got a friend who does Botox and so she recommended I get some stuff here and then apparently they can do something to like raise the eyelids a little bit. She's telling me I got droopy eyelids so I may in the near future, might get some injections in here to see if they can get rid of these fat folds on my forehead and maybe lift my eyes a little bit and we'll see if I look like Catwoman after I come back or if I look normal. I have seen it's our YouTube channel, right, it'll be a nice foreign after and ADP.

Charles: 27:19

Bring it on we, yeah, yeah, I am most familiar with. I mean again, when plastic surgery or cosmetic medical interventions in aesthetics and cosmetics go very, very well, you have no idea that it's happened, yeah.

Dan: 27:35

But when it doesn't go so well, you're like oh look what she did or look at he did do his face Right. Yeah, that's memorable for sure.

Charles: 27:41

Yeah, I'm thinking back to and I'm sure it's gotten better but I remember in the 2004 presidential campaign, when it was George W Bush versus John Kerry, at one point on the campaign trail John Kerry clearly got Botox in his forehead. Yeah, and it went from being very I'd be more weekly than mine certainly because he was kind of bit older than me and the sun in Vietnam was probably pretty rough but yeah, so he went from a very wrinkled forehead to just like a like a movie theater screen.

Dan: 28:16

Wow, and then, like fingers crossed, I come out so good.

Charles: 28:19

Something has happened there. And then, slightly before that, I remember that the other one that is kind of etched in my brain when I think about plastic surgery or facelifts or eyebrow raising was Greta Van Suster, and after the OJ trial she was on, she was a CNN legal correspondent for OJ and then she disappeared after OJ and then showed up on Fox News, okay, and then she had a head transplant. She looked like a completely different person, wow, and I thought, okay, that is a person who has had some interventions and took the Travolta movie face off.

Charles: 29:04

I mean it was significant. The most recent one has been Simon Cowell. He's had some real work done.

Charles: 29:08

I gotta take a look at him. I haven't seen him. He's really unrecognizable to me. And the thing is, when the combination of losing weight and getting work done, or getting the work done and then losing weight, it's like, oh okay, so every. I mean, when you lose weight, your face is going to rearrange things as it would, because you lose body fat fairly, equally, yeah, everywhere, yep. But when things have been pinned up or attached to your skull in a certain way and then you lose the weight, then things might not look so normal.

Dan: 29:42

Yeah, you know, you also have to think about a lot of times. We know what the person looked like beforehand because they're a celebrity and they've been in the media, so that's fair. The question would be is, if you didn't know who they were beforehand, how bad or good would they actually look if you just met them on the street? Right, have you seen? There's a Netflix show called Botched and they go through.

Dan: 30:04

No, there's a couple of doctors in Beverly Hills and they fix botched plastic surgeries and so people come in with problems. And sometimes people come in with Real big problems, real but no minor problems that they want. Oh, I want, I have. They have like an indistinguishable bump on their nose or it's like slightly off, whatever, and they're like if we get in there it's going to be worse, and they tell they turn people away and but they also do actually fix some really bad all kinds of surgeries, not just it's not just face, it's a breast implant or but implants or whatever, like serious. You know big parts of how he has been. And sometimes it's people who went down to Mexico to get some sort of surgery done and they come back and they're like this is a West mother passed away, I believe.

Charles: 30:53

I think she went. Oh yeah, I think she went down for surgery in South America somewhere.

Dan: 30:58

I think it was like a but lift or but implants and then it, and what I've learned is that that Brazilian but lift is one of the most dangerous plastic surgeries you can get because of the potential of complications from it.

Charles: 31:10

Yeah, so I guess that's and that's.

Charles: 31:12

That's the question that I don't know the answer to. But and I haven't, I haven't done the work to figure out why it is that this, this trend or this behavior turns me off, that I would never want to do it myself and I'm kind of not attracted to it romantically either. But it's like where is the line between hey, I just, you know, I want to look as good as I can, and so I'm willing to take some steps to look my best versus I'm putting too much emphasis on my appearance and the way people in my life feel about the way I look and the way society feels about the way I look. So I'm going to take on a fair amount of risk in the hopes that changing the way that I look gets other people to treat me different and gets me to feel better about myself. It's like where do you figure out where the problem is and where the mental health concerns come in, versus just the? Yeah, I just want to look at my best, I don't know, I don't think there's an answer to that.

Dan: 32:12

I mean that's impossible for each person, right, where they're coming from mentally. You know what the purpose is, what they feel like they're going to get out of it. A lot of times, yeah, people get addicted to surgeries and stuff like that because they think, oh, the next one is going to make me feel certain way, versus maybe needing to do the work on mental health first. Right, right, like you said, maybe it's combination of both, maybe it's. You know, some people you know are born with, you know like one breast is much larger than the other one and, yeah, that's going to affect your you know your state of mind. So it's just okay, you get them even, but then those big enough, or is that? Or are you okay now? Or you know because now that they're even and so again, it's.

Dan: 32:55

I think it's a case by case basis and I think a good doctor, a good plastic surgeon, does a mental health evaluation as well and talks to them and, on this botched show, the doctor do talk to them and get a sense of, hey, are they happy and healthy and mentally stable enough for the surgery? Does it make sense to do it? Also, is it really going to make a difference? If they get in there, are they going to make something worse? So they have turned people away where they feel like you're doing this for the wrong reasons.

Charles: 33:26

Yeah, and I guess that's the question. You know what? Uh, how are we, how are they coming up with that line? I mean because you do see some people and and you know we make them train wreck celebrities on reality shows, who do get addicted to it and do start looking very I mean, I don't want to be mean, but inhuman. I mean like it's, it's that lay out. If, if you, if the hunter gather a version of us, encountered one of those things in the woods, we would either run away from it or try to kill it, because it would be, it would seem like, oh, that's another person. Because of the, the proportions and the stuff that has happened to them. I mean it's, it's pretty severe and I mean, thankfully, you know we live now, where we can we understand what's happened, what someone has done. We, you know they've got some plastic surgery and we can tolerate that.

Dan: 34:13

But and then you can sprinkle that in with you know, my body, my choice, right? Yeah, it's kind of one of those. If you, you know, this is what I want to do, yeah, you need someone else to obviously do the surgery for you. And then it's just like, well, at what point? Yeah, does that doctor have a responsibility for? Yeah, oh, that's too too. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know. I mean, I guess part of it would be, you know, whatever, whatever medical board you know has has certified, most likely it's are you preserving health? Are you? Are you putting this person's health out there?

Dan: 34:48

You know performing the surgery, whether it's during the surgery or the results, potential results afterwards. So I think that's that's where it's kind of like all right now is there is a physical health going to be at risk by doing this procedure, and even then you don't know 100%, right, yeah, but it's just like, based on your experience, your expert opinion, that's that's where I think it can only rely.

Charles: 35:12

And I, I would say I default to bodily autonomy, where people get to make those choices for themselves.

Dan: 35:19

Yeah.

Charles: 35:20

But you know again, if somebody, if somebody in a professional capacity, has decided okay, this person does not have the mental ability to make good choices for themselves. I mean, you know not to, not to bring in the slippery slope fallacy, but what about, you know, doctor assisted euthanasia? I mean, yeah, you know that's, that's the ultimate body of autonomy, where you say I want to go to a doctor, I want him to kill me, or I want to sell my heart, which will kill me but will make $500,000 for my family to have. I mean, we don't let in this country, we don't allow either of those things to happen. But one could say, well, we should, because people should get to make up their own mind about stuff like that.

Charles: 36:11

But it's, yeah, it's. The thing is I the only part is I feel responsible for is okay. What am I doing to contribute, if anything, to a society when people feel this amount of pressure of I have to stay beautiful, I have to stay young, looking at any costs, otherwise, yeah, society will decide I'm not worth anything. So, and obviously I think women do probably have this Significantly harder than men do. Yeah, at least in the Western you know, western society.

Dan: 36:40

Yeah.

Charles: 36:40

Yeah, yeah, the pressure. I can't think of any society if that's not the case. Actually, I always say Western society because that's what I know. Yeah, but I mean when it comes to stuff like that, I mean it's well.

Dan: 36:50

The amount of pressure is different. I feel, yeah, based on Not just the society, but also you know, the choices that you make in terms of what you're surrounding yourself. If you're buying these, yeah, if you're buying the magazines where they're showing you know people who have been, you don't know, their photos have been doctored and, you know, photoshopped, as well as spending a lot of time on social media Comparing yourself. If you're not spending your time there, then you're reducing the amount of pressure that you're experiencing, and so then, at that point, that's also your decision to determine whether you're where you're spending your time and what what you're allowing to Influencer is that your decision when you're a 10 year old girl?

Charles: 37:29

or you just kind of along for the ride and then that forms your brain Into what your brain is gonna be at that, 20 years later?

Dan: 37:35

You're making decisions based on what you couldn't help being exposed to your little yeah, certain decisions are obviously you know you don't have control over, and so certain decisions you do. As we get older, we get more and more control over, more and more decisions right. When we're younger, it's mostly our parents and our teachers and the people who are responsible for our safety and our education. They're the ones that are Good, good or bad, I feel. Yeah, but in terms of what they're exposing the children who don't have much of a choice to right, right, but you and I are both on board with the idea of you know, once you hit 18, all of those bad mistakes that your parents and society made.

Charles: 38:11

They're not just white, oh no. You're stuck with what your brain did with it at the time. Oh, absolutely, and that's gonna follow you for the rest of your life, contingent about how much work you do to make sure that it doesn't right.

Dan: 38:22

Yeah fingers crossed. You, you've got the mental capacity to realize when a lot of your beliefs come from and that you do want to make some changes and you do want to take on a me over your own beliefs, your own thinking. That doesn't always happen, you know. If you're lucky enough to be to have that Situation, that's great, yeah. I, I'm not, I'm not absolving Responsibility from you know, from from society at all.

Charles: 38:47

Yeah, I would say I mean, as somebody who doesn't Know all that much about what the right thing to do because I don't have a choice I would certainly look into I am mostly on board with the idea of you just you, you gotta. It's always a better idea to limit your comments on someone else's body and appearance. It's Even when it comes to your own family. It's really not your business to ever. And hey, it looks like you put on a couple pounds there.

Charles: 39:17

There's never a reason to say that man or woman to pretty much anybody. And even when it comes to your kids. I mean, we we've talked about it on this show and in our personal conversations telling your kid that they need to shed a couple pounds is Not going to be effective Compared to living your own life with health and moderation. I think, yeah, we've talked about like obesity in particular. It's like parents are obese, are gonna have obese kids and that is is kind there's there's no amount of talking that is going to Overwhelm the example that you show your kids. Yeah, and the same is true about body positivity. It's like the more happy and Satisfied and content you are with your body and what you do take care of your body, that's gonna trickle downhill to yeah to your kids. Yeah, and if you're miserable about your body all the time, there's a good chance you're gonna raise kids are gonna be miserable. But there's right, you are communicating and serving as a.

Charles: 40:18

Source of programmed information, even if you're not speaking, right, yeah, so the kinds of stuff I say to myself and I say to you, after you know, a weekend of eating badly and stuff like that, if I was saying that to my partner and our kid was over here in us, that is something I would have to Absolutely get in line, because it it would. Well, I am gonna, I'm gonna challenge you and say you should also get in line.

Dan: 40:45

You should also be speaking to yourself, as kindly, as you Agreed. No, I agree. Even if it's in show, even if it's a yes, there's nobody really is hurt from it Then, yes, you're right about that.

Charles: 40:55

It still has some lingering effect. No, I agree and yeah.

Dan: 41:00

So, and I think it's okay to make those jokes that I do that by myself and for me, the way I temper, that is I also try to be honest. The way I temper that is I also try to Think of myself as a friend and and say, okay, look, yeah, you didn't eat the way you want it to this weekend, or you didn't sleep the way you wanted to, but you're doing the best you can. And what did we learn from this? And can be, you know, coming right for this. So so, yeah, make the jokes and stuff, but I think it's important to also then focus on Positive side of things and, you know, show yourself a little kindness and grace. Otherwise, yeah, you're so conscious, brain is. It's the same thing as saying you're sitting, waking up and, instead of meditating, meditating and thinking positive things, you're not gonna meditating and say, oh, cancer, even if you're joking around there, there is something to it. We do believe us.

Charles: 41:57

So yeah, yeah, I would, yeah, then that is. That is a good point. You know, on on people who are not yet parents but want to be parents in the future, yeah, don't, don't think, oh well, once I have a kid I Will stop doing this thing that I think it's probably a bad thing to do in front of them, whether that Smokey to your cell, right, talking badly about yourself Usually language that you don't like I mean, you know, telling jokes that you wouldn't be comfortable with I mean, don't, don't think that, oh, I've got a kid now, so I'm gonna snap my fingers and I'm gonna stop doing all these things because it's for the kid. Mm-hmm, like they're doing for you today, proud, then, yeah, today doing it for you, and then when you have the kid, you won't have to work quite so hard.

Dan: 42:36

I'm hundred percent. There's gonna be enough for other things to do when you have a kid. I yes, then then yourself is working on your self-esteem, everybody.

Charles: 42:43

I know the kid is way more busy than me and I feel I'm busy enough already.

Dan: 42:47

I don't know how they do it. God bless them.

Charles: 42:49

All right, dan. Well, that covers us on anti-aging. Again, I do feel like Hormone levels is is definitely something and you can. You can start there. Do do the cosmetic things too, but be aware of the anti-aging stuff that's going on in your body and, whether that's your, your vices and the effect they're having, or or things you could be doing that you're not yet doing, I would. I would say, yeah, don't look at it. Just I want to keep my face wrinkle-free. There's a lot more to it than that, yeah, yeah, all right, I enjoyed talking with you about that and we will see you again next time. All right, wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely Follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.