Do Crystals and Sage Have a Place in Your Self-Care Practice?

In this thought-provoking episode, Charles and Dan delve into the spiritual aspects of self-care, as discussed in Garrett Muntz's book, "Self-Care for Men". While Charles expresses skepticism about practices like astrology and smudging, the duo explores their potential psychological benefits and discusses broader self-care strategies.

Spiritual Practices for Self-Care:
Charles and Dan examine various spiritual practices recommended in the book. While Charles is critical of new age practices like astrology, reiki, and tarot, both hosts discuss how these could be seen as forms of entertainment or mental relaxation rather than literal solutions to life’s problems.

Personal Experiences and Anecdotes:
Charles shares his recent trip to Omaha, highlighting his visit to the zoo and his experiences with overcrowded public places. He also discusses the challenges of dealing with poorly supervised children in public settings, providing a candid reflection on personal space and public behavior.

Reflections on Parenting and Public Behavior:
Both hosts reflect on the responsibilities of parenting in public spaces, emphasizing the importance of teaching children appropriate behavior in different settings.

Broader Self-Care Strategies:
Beyond spiritual practices, the discussion extends to general self-care strategies like organization, decluttering, and maintaining personal rituals, particularly when traveling.

Listener Takeaways:

• Whether or not one believes in the efficacy of spiritual practices, integrating intentional relaxation and reflection into daily life can contribute significantly to mental health.
• The importance of adapting self-care practices to fit personal beliefs and lifestyle, rather than strictly adhering to prescribed methods.

Call to Action:

• Listeners are encouraged to explore self-care practices that resonate with them, keeping an open mind about new methods but also remaining critical about what genuinely benefits their well-being.
• Subscribe for more insightful discussions on men's health and well-being, and share your own experiences with self-care on our social media channels.

This episode challenges traditional notions of masculinity and self-care, encouraging men to explore a variety of methods to enhance their mental health and well-being.

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles, okay. So Dan and I are in the homestretch. We are almost done with our review and discussion of Self-Care for Men by Garrett Muntz, and in this episode we get into some of the spiritual practices that he recommends as a possible form of self-care for men. Form of self-care for men.

Charles: 0:27

And this was a bit of a tough episode for me because a lot of these recommendations or these practices are not the kind of thing that I'm into, that I have experience with or that appeals to me. I try not to be too closed-minded and judgmental, but I probably fail at a few points. So please bear with me when I sound just like a grumpy old man. I am, but I probably fail at a few points. So please bear with me when I sound just like a grumpy old man. I am, but I'm trying to be a bit more open-minded. So if you're into any of these things, my intention is not to insult you or to tell you to stop doing anything that is bringing value in your life and making you feel better. So full speed ahead, but just be prepared for me to sound a little rough on some of these topics. I hope you enjoy the episode and please consider subscribing to the show on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Thanks very much.

Dan: 1:12

Hey Charles, how are you?

Charles: 1:13

I am well, dan. Thank you very much. How are you doing? I'm doing well. What's new with you? What's new with me? Not a lot, just been All right, good talk.

Dan: 1:21

Yeah, what's new with you? Let All right, good talk. Yeah, what's new with you?

Charles: 1:23

Let's see. Did some traveling Went to Omaha last weekend Nebraska, yeah, as opposed to Omaha, alabama, mainly to go visit their zoo, have a little bit of steak Mission accomplished on both fronts. It's a fun city, a little very Midwestern-y feeling, although I guess there is some debate on whether Nebraska is in the Midwest or not. Some say it's too far west to be midwest. Oh yeah, but yeah, like the government hasn't really defined what the midwest is exactly and so it's up for grabs. Or you could just go with nebraska yeah, that's close enough, but a lot of high quality animal exhibits at the. At the zoo saw some good stuff. Okay, saw a lot of lemurs like kinds of lemurs I didn't even know were a thing. I learned about some new lemurs, so I appreciated that. I enjoy the lemurs. What are lemurs? Like kinds of lemurs I didn't even know were a thing. I learned about some new lemurs, so I appreciated that I enjoy the lemurs.

Dan: 2:06

What are lemurs known for what they're not lemmings?

Charles: 2:13

No, lemurs are not lemmings, they're a primate, they're a monkey variant. Yeah, I think the ring tailed lemurs are probably the most common.

Dan: 2:22

Okay, now didoss have a lemur, oh no I think what was.

Charles: 2:26

That was a monkey. I forget what kind of monkey that was. Okay, all right. So monkeys, gorillas, yeah, lots of good stuff. The one mistake I made, though, in which I did this in either. I think I did this in cincinnati too. If you're traveling to a new city to go visit their zoo, don't go on the weekend unless you absolutely have to. I went on Saturday, and I should have gone on Friday. Just so many kids and families, and it was way too crowded.

Charles: 2:55

It slows you down.

Charles: 2:56

It slows you down and a lot of kids who don't know how to act and don't have parents that have taught them how to behave, Kids banging on the plexiglass where the gorillas are trying to get a reaction out of them and stuff.

Charles: 3:08

Again, it's easy for me to say because I don't have kids, but it's also easy for me to say, because it's true, I would not take my child to the zoo or really the church or the restaurant or anything without having a conversation to say here's the behavior that will be expected of you in this place. And obviously I don't. I wouldn't expect them to live up to that a hundred percent. They're kids. But the part where you just don't even bring that up to your kid, like, it's clear, like these kids are have never been told that, like they weren't having an emotional experience where they were having difficulty or they were tired or they were hungry, it was just they're in a place and nobody gave them a clue on how you're supposed to act in that place, and it's a hundred percent of the parents not the kid.

Dan: 3:52

Yeah, I have no problem with a kid being a kid and needing to learn how to behave the right way. I've got a problem when the parent is lazy, where the parent doesn't give a shit, yeah, and they're checked out, talking to their friend or whatever, and the kids are just up to their own thing and, yeah, that frustrates me as well. And I can be the other way, because I have seen parents that do corrections in a healthy, nice way and it's not like we're living in a dream world where we're like this this could never happen. We're not asking for a miracle, right?

Charles: 4:20

It just. But what happened the most in public seems to be either the parent is just checked out and not paying attention to their kid, or they blow up at their kid and have their own little melt.

Dan: 4:31

The parent has their own meltdown about stop that right now or I'm going to take you out to the car.

Charles: 4:36

It's like both of those are just like oh man, this is not fun to watch. No, absolutely not. So if you go to the zoo on a weekday, yeah, you don't have to do that.

Dan: 4:45

I know, growing up, my mom would she most of the time it would not start with a yelling, it would be a correction, it would be a dan, don't do that, you don't have to do that. If I kept it up then eventually, but there was some sort of corrective measure put in place the first time I did something. That wasn't really the the way to behave. Yeah, I think, and I think it's because my mom was embarrassed if I behaved that way.

Charles: 5:10

Yeah, there has to be some. Yeah, the interventions have to be meaningful. When your parent says, hey, can you knock that off, or something along those lines, like a very casual thing, like that history has taught you, that means something like yes, because, yes, because.

Dan: 5:25

I know what the escalation looks like Exactly. And if there's never been, if you don't make the kid realize that the consequences for their behavior is going to be something that's meaningful to them, right? When a parent casually says, hey, could you stop that? And there's no actual consequences, right, until they're screaming at the top of their lungs. I don't think that's effective.

Charles: 5:47

Because that's what, and maybe the good stuff happens more than I notice it. But what I notice in public is usually the ignore. The kid freak out.

Dan: 5:55

Yeah, yeah, right, it's very uncomfortable to see that happen because it's like, oh boy, how do they handle this when they're at home alone, when the the public? It's just I feel bad for the parrot, because now they are super stressed out and I don't feel so bad for the parrot, but at the same time I just feel like there's such an easy and again, I don't know, I don't have a kid either, but it just seems like there's a difference between going from zero to a hundred. There's got to be a little bit of space in there where they could operate and be effective. Yeah, and do it in a less stressful way.

Charles: 6:30

Yeah, neither of us have kids, but both of us do know how, when a situation starts to go off the rails, how to recognize it and take a step early in the process rather than late in the process, and that seems like it would be a skill that could translate to raising children, but I don't know, maybe there's more to it than I'm thinking of.

Dan: 6:47

The other thing too, is they could be absolutely exhausted from the trip, from being already stressed out and not doing enough self-care right, so that they're already operating at a level where they're super stressed out. So it doesn't, they don't have the capacity to do the thing the right way in a calm way.

Charles: 7:05

Which I understand. There's still a responsibility there. You need to develop practices and the habits that you need to so that you're up for taking your kid to the zoo. But yeah, if you haven't done that, then, yeah, managing your kid at the zoo is going to be difficult.

Dan: 7:22

So to bring it back to me when you're asking me what I've gotten up to.

Dan: 7:26

One of the things that I rediscovered was my list that I made for myself of when I'm at my best, and I had that written out somewhere and I completely lost it in the house of clutter. And I found it the other day and I updated it, reviewed it, made a couple of copies of it, posted it up in a couple other places in my house and I realized the number one thing I listed there was having an organized house and office, because when it's cluttered my mind is cluttered and it just subconsciously I have this higher level of stress. And once I decluttered the house I felt my level of stress and now I could look at what number two was in terms of when I'm at my best and tackle that. So I think that's an important takeaway here is figure out what you do, the things you do on a daily basis or weekly basis that make you at your best, so that you can handle those challenging situations, like a kid banging on the glass of the zoo.

Charles: 8:27

Yes, yes, fortunately, I did keep up some of my self-care practices, so when I witnessed it, I didn't.

Dan: 8:34

That's great, so you were able to translate that to while you're traveling.

Charles: 8:38

Yeah, and it's also yeah, that's one of the biggest challenges. Yeah, not a lot, I don't do everything that's on my list. I use the what's that called the productive yeah, productive app to keep track of my habits and have it remind me of do these things, and I got all of my be it your best habits on that thing. So, oh great, I'm reminded and I swipe on them as I do them. Some of them I don't. I don't do as religiously when I'm on the road as I do when I'm at home, but many of them I do, and so the more the merrier, quite literally.

Dan: 9:08

Do you feel like that actually made a difference on this trip by doing some of those things, versus on trips where you've just let it all go? Yes, the reason I say that is because sometimes we are so disciplined about getting all these things done on our daily basis at home that we just need that mental break. And when we go on vacation, we get that mental break from doing all these rigorous tasks or, yeah, some of them are tracking a thing for me, because for me sometimes it's a little stressful tracking food, tracking water and or waking up and writing things out. That takes extra time and so, like when I'm on vacation, if I've been doing that regularly at home, sometimes it's nice to get that break.

Charles: 9:50

Yeah, for some of the things, that's true, the stuff of washing and moisturizing my face when I wake up and when I go to bed, it's like it's not that it's stuff that I wouldn't do if I wasn't thinking about it or I wasn't reminded, but it also doesn't take much to. Oh good it. Or I wasn't reminded, but it also doesn't take much to. It's not like tracking my water all day. That would be a little bit more, which I don't do. That would be a little more intensive than than just my morning and nighttime routine. So, yeah, the easy stuff I'm willing to do on the road. The more difficult stuff Like I, when I travel I don't pack my journal with me, oh I did you used to Cause I did?

Dan: 10:20

No, I always had the best of intentions and then I never used it. I'm like why am I even adding this extra weight to my back?

Charles: 10:26

Yeah, that's the thing, though. You know you bring enough luggage when you travel that you should have a porter, and so putting my five-year journal in my one tiny bag that fits under a Spirit Airline seat, that's valuable space that I can't waste on my journal. So I just leave it at home, and you know I try to take enough pictures that, uh, I can use those as a way to reflect on what I was up to, but it's not as good as writing the journal. It's, you know, better than nothing. All right, let's, we're going to kill a whole part of this book today, not just a chapter, because this is a rough one. Man, I wanted to. I miss the, the masturbation talk, compared to having to go through this who doesn't Come on. I hated that too, but I might hate this even more. We're going to go on again.

Charles: 11:11

It's self-care for men by Garrett Muntz, and the part six is about spirituality and various spiritual practices that the author asserts can be useful in self-care, some of which I agree with and some of which I disagree with. The first part is all about some new age ideas and practices, including things like astrology, reiki, tarot cards, sound baths and mediums, which okay, listen I, if you're into any of those things and you find that the practice of those things helps you to be healthier, happier, more centered, uh, then by all means keep them up or even do more of them If it's working for you. Don't listen to anybody who's not into it convincing you that you shouldn't do it. So that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to convince anybody not to do these things.

Charles: 12:08

However, I would, for me personally, trying to add things to what I consider to be an already pretty packed schedule, things that I am not convinced would have a positive benefit, that I would just be doing it because, oh, it's a new thing to try, and a guy who got a book published says that these things are helpful. Yeah, that's not enough to convince me to do something. It. And were I to look to external sources for validation that things like astrology and tarot cards and going to a psychic, were I to read studies that people have experienced very concrete, tangible benefits that were outside of the placebo effect, that I would consider doing that. But as far as I'm concerned, these are the kinds of things that, again because of my own experiences and my own biases, these all feel like a waste of time to me, and being a guy who wastes his time does not help my self-care. It would harm it.

Dan: 13:09

Yeah.

Charles: 13:10

Again, if you get something out of these things, by all means continue to do them and enjoy. But if you're not into them, I am not going to suggest that you start doing them.

Dan: 13:21

Yeah, for me, I've done most of these, yeah, and a couple of times, and for me it's entertainment and interesting and I'm not basing huge life decisions on them. I'm not changing my world based on the information that I'm getting. I do think it's entertaining for me. That, yeah, it's entertaining. I'll do it once in a while. It's not a regular practice that I do and it's a way of for me, a little bit of a stress relief from the normal day-to-day stuff that I'm doing. And again, it stimulates a different part of my mind because I might hear something that I never thought of before and I. For me that's stimulating and it just makes me think about some things differently. But mostly for me it's like entertainment purposes.

Charles: 14:13

Yeah, and that's, and that's fine. I obviously I want people to have ways to just things to engage in that just relaxes them and entertains them, and that exactly, and that's great For me. There's an opportunity cost Talking to a psychic for 30 minutes or an hour, compared to watching a TV show I like for an hour. I'm going to get so much more as far as just relaxing and decompressing out of watching TV than I would going to pay somebody to tell me what my dead relatives have to say.

Dan: 14:42

Yeah, Know thyself right. Know what we're doing.

Charles: 14:45

Yes, that's somebody to tell me what my dead relatives have to say. Yeah, know thyself, right, know what we're. Yes, that's part of that, that's part of the exploration. And certainly just be willing to try new things that you may not be into. But look, if you know that you're not into something, why? Right? Don't take somebody's advice to try it. I'm not going to keep eating black licorice. Yeah, that's the worst, isn't?

Dan: 15:01

it pretty bad, and especially when the surprise jelly bean gets in the mix. Get a handful of jelly beans and you get a black one. Oh no, yeah, man, that's one of the. It ruins. It ruins the whole mouthful.

Charles: 15:10

I've never understood how people like people are into that. Yeah, some people really into that. Yeah, not for me, man. Um, okay, so the next section that we're gonna blow through, because I don't have a lot of value in, is something called smudging, which I'd never even I. Yeah, I've heard of this concept before. I didn't know that's what it was called, but this is where you burn sage or something sage adjacent in your house to remove a phenomena that he refers to as negative energy, which is never really defined by any person I've ever heard talk about negative energy.

Dan: 15:47

This is a big placebo effect right here yeah, it's if.

Charles: 15:52

look if, if setting something on fire and sniffing the smoke makes you feel good, then obviously, once you've taken precautions to make sure you don't burn your house down, by all means, then do that.

Charles: 16:04

Or buy an air freshener or spray some glade, whatever. Whatever works for you, then do it. But believing that there is some metaphysical thing happening under the surface that we really can't observe or measure in any meaningful way as far as, as far as Western science is concerned, right, I I'm not going to take be taking any time to do that and again, if you find your like there, anything that he attributes to negative energy, there are some pretty clear psychological definitions and concepts that make more sense to me than negative energy. So I guess what I would say about burning sage is, or something like that, and waving the smoke around, and if you're not satisfied with how your life's going and you're like man, I need to figure out something to help my mood be better or to make my life feel more positive. I would not say burning sage is the thing you should start with burning sage is the thing you should start with.

Dan: 17:09

No, I don't. Yeah, I don't think, sorry. What I found interesting was he did define negative energy a little bit in a way that I hadn't heard before, which is when you are meeting a lot of people, you are interacting with them and you are basically bringing in some of the energy that they have into your mind, into your subconscious, and you might be consciously remembering some of those interactions and subconsciously not, but you're also picking up their body language, how they are, the expressions on their faces, and that might be as you're doing that all day long. You might not be consciously aware of that, but you might be bringing in some of that negative energy and kind of playing in the back of your mind. And I never thought of negative energy in that way, but I agree with that, as if you've got a busy day interacting with a lot of people, and if they're, if these are stressful conversations, you're going to feel stressed at the end of the day more often than not. And I look at what he's talking about.

Dan: 18:03

These smudging tools, like what you said, is it's more of a symbol of saying okay, I am done with this and just to say okay, I'm done feeling this way. I'm going to start looking for feeling better and newer ways. I don't necessarily believe it does anything under the surface to actually get rid of it. It more just serves as a symbol to say I'm done with that part right day, I'm ready to move on. I'm open to some new experiences and some new feelings. I'm letting that go, helping to compartmentalize those experiences. So, whether it's spraying glade or just going for a walk, whatever that is for you, and if the ritual may be making coffee, right, okay, I made the like in the morning. Okay, ready to start my day. I'm letting go of the bad dreams I had last night or whatever. But I think that that ritual and I think this smudging kind of falls into that in my mind.

Charles: 18:56

And listen, I, everybody can define these things however they would like to and it's not my job to tell you that's wrong or that's right. I, as far as I'm concerned, the negative energy, as far as we know from science so far, when you have those interactions with people and you're stressed or you're uncomfortable, or what your experience is happening inside of your brain, your consciousness, your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions, we, we don't have anything so far that tells us that there is some force or some energy or some transfer of one person's mood to your, from their brain to your brain. It's just we, there's, there's nothing woo-woo or mystic. You don't have to believe there's anything woo-woo or mystical going on to say, yes, it's probably a good idea for me to go home and make some sort of cognitive transition to what was going on before, to what's going on now. And yeah, I again, I look, go ahead and do it. I don't care, it's fine, do it. If you want to do it and think whatever you want to think is going on under the surface, that's okay. If it makes you better at all the roles you have to fill in your life, then do it.

Charles: 20:10

But again, like I said with the last thing if you're not happy with how things are going and you're like I need to make some change, I need to bring some more positivity into my life, I wouldn't say step one is I need to burn some sage, yeah. One is I need to burn some sage yeah. I think there are more higher impact, lower effort things you can do to bring in some positivity, like journaling, like mindfulness, invitation, like going for walks, like therapy, like there's a lot of things I would put on the list higher than smudging or, you know, going to a psychic or whatever. That, uh, we know is effective. Like we, we have evidence that, okay, these things tend to work every time somebody is concerned about elevating their mood. So do those things first.

Dan: 20:56

Yeah.

Charles: 20:57

And then if, for entertainment purposes or for a little boost, you want to do some of these other things that are less validated by western science, then go ahead and do them too.

Dan: 21:06

That's fine, I'm yeah, I'm not saying not to I look at it as a game right, and there's value in playing games to be able to have fun, right. But these are the side quests, right. You know what I'm saying is these are games versus doing hard work, because generally you're going to a therapist, that can be hard work, that can make you feel uncomfortable a little bit at times, but that's why they're probably affected, because you are, you're going, you're breaking through some boundaries, whatever, whereas this it's a little bit more of a lighthearted type of just making you feel good type of stuff.

Charles: 21:36

Yeah and I think that's an important lesson that generally the practices and the activities that are going to bring the most positive change are the good. They're going to be the ones that are the most uncomfortable in the moment. So the easier something is to do, yeah, the less long-term positive change it's probably going to actually give you.

Dan: 21:58

Correct. Yeah, it's the whole comfort zone thing, right? Was that change happens or life happens outside your comfort zone, right Like that? Or?

Charles: 22:03

growth, growth, yeah, yeah. So something is, and we'll get into some more of these practices. Now on this next one. This next section is actually something I'm completely on board with, which is he calls it a forced bath. I call it going for walks out in nature, but we're essentially talking about the same thing. It's interesting, he said some studies have shown that the average person spends upwards of 93% of their time inside.

Dan: 22:27

That's a high number. I know I didn't realize.

Charles: 22:31

93 sounds really high, maybe we're not average because we live in a warm climate. We don't live somewhere cold. We live in the suburbs. We don't live deep in the middle of a city.

Dan: 22:39

Yeah.

Charles: 22:40

Yeah, I would say, if you're living in a city that you're in a very dense metropolitan area and it's cold a good part of the year somebody who lives in downtown Minneapolis they're probably more likely to be closer to that 93% number than you and me are living in Florida. But as a result, it's good to make a deliberate practice of spending some time outside Forest bathing. There are obviously benefits to that, proven benefits like cardiovascular and respiratory health, immune health, decreases depression, anxiety, confusion, lowers cortisol. So I highly endorse the idea of going for walks out in. If you don't have a forest, then do it in a city park. The bigger the city park the better, so that you can feel like you're out in nature, not in the middle of the concrete jungle. But if you don't have access to a city park, even do it in a garden or in your yard. But it's a good idea to spend some of that time in nature as often as you can. The typical forest bath they recommend and this is from a Japanese tradition two hour sessions, which two hours. It sounds like a nice time to spend out on a walk. And here's some of the practices he recommends out on a walk. And here's some of the practices he recommends. So, in addition to giving yourself enough time, use what time you've got available, but two hours seems like it's ideal.

Charles: 23:55

Leave your phone behind which boy? That's a tough one, because I don't want to walk without my audio book or my podcast. That's tough, but sometimes I do turn it off and just put it in my pocket. I do not disturb, don't have a goal. So this isn't about walking to a place. This is about just being out there. For the sake of being out there, keep your senses open, look around, smell, touch the plants, listen to the sounds. That's where a lot of the pleasure of this is going to come from. Don't rush, so try to keep your pace. This isn't about going for a jog or a run. This is keep your pace pretty slow. I say 20 minute miles, maybe even slower than that, so that you can really look around and stop and appreciate things as you see them. Use the time to do something, uh like stop, have a seat, look around, um, I don't know. I I feel like don't have a goal and use the time seem a little bit, yeah, conflict with each other. To use the time seem a little bit conflict with each other.

Dan: 24:50

Yeah, use the time is a great way of phrasing it. To me, it sounds like he's talking about use your senses.

Charles: 24:56

That was a separate one. He said keep your senses open. That was one thing. And then there's a whole other one, for he says some people like to meditate or do yoga, but it feels okay If I'm walking to the middle of Central Park to do yoga. That doesn't feel like I'm just doing a forest bath, that seems like I've got a goal, like there's a purpose for this thing. So there's a couple things in this section that are contradictory.

Dan: 25:18

In all fairness, he does say if the idea of walking aimlessly stresses you out, then use the time right, Then find a place and do the meditation or the yoga if you don't want to just walk and experience stuff.

Charles: 25:32

So I think he was just saying giving an alternative here yeah, if I said, if I said to you, dan, I I think you would really benefit from this practice. I've started called forest bathing, where take a couple hours and you walk around in nature, and your response was where are you going? I was like you're not going anywhere, you're just going to be out in nature, and your response was where are you going? I was like you're not going anywhere, you're just going to be out in nature, and you're like that really stresses me out. Not having a plan, I'd be like okay, let's unpack that. That would be.

Charles: 25:59

My next response would not be okay, go do yoga or go sit and meditate. It would be like yeah, so the idea of just giving yourself two hours to walk around make sure that stresses you out. So, as dan, are you already meditating or are you already doing yoga? No, okay, go walk in the middle of the woods and start doing this thing that you're not doing already. Fair, okay, point taken, I I feel like the people who are already meditating and doing yoga they're not the ones who are gonna get stressed out by a two-hour walk. Good, point all.

Dan: 26:28

I see your point.

Charles: 26:29

I do agree with making a routine, and that's one of the things I just started this new book on, called slow productivity, and one of the things that the author in there talks about is a, an autopilot schedule, where you try to set up as much as you can in your schedule for the week of at this time, at this location, I do this thing for this amount of time and you build that into a habit.

Dan: 26:52

Yeah.

Charles: 26:52

And so it takes less, less cognitive effort to make it happen, because it's not just oh, I've got this computer work that I need to be doing, and all these books I read tell me I need to be more social, I need to be around people. So I should probably try to find some time to squeeze in a trip to the coffee shop to do some of my work this week, and then at the end of the week you didn't squeeze in any of that time because you were too busy in the middle of doing the things that you felt you were rushed to do, and so it just didn't happen. Where, if you're able to do something a little bit more dynamic and structured, to say, listen, every Monday morning, my first two hours of the work day I spend at the coffee shop and that's just what I do, then you're not. You've taken all the stress out of the trying to squeeze in a place to do this thing you think you should do, but it's not valuable enough that you're going to disrupt your life to make it happen.

Charles: 27:46

Next chapter is crystals. What can be said about crystals that I haven't already said about other things? Salt is my favorite yeah, that's. I like sugar too. All right.

Charles: 27:58

Attitude in the social media age. Yeah, okay, yeah, using ascribing metaphysical properties to crystals and that they have the ability to solve actual human problems?

Dan: 28:15

yeah, maybe they do maybe or maybe you are subconsciously programming your subconscious or unconsciously programming your subconscious to start thinking about things and solutions when you say, all right, right, I've got this crystal here and it's making me bring top of mind whatever issue that you're struggling with and that's your actual. Because I really believe that if you give your brain some direction, it will try to, it will work on things, and that's one of the concepts, I think, behind meditation as well. So maybe it's just. Maybe one of the benefits or why people think it works is it just focuses your attention on a specific problem and get your brain working on it. Yeah, maybe.

Charles: 29:12

Yep, based on how he describes using the different kinds of crystals and cleansing them and programming them and harnessing them, I don't really see a reason that I couldn't just use a quarter or a button off of a coat, correct, or pretty much any random crystal-sized object that I mean. He talks about different properties that different color crystals have. For example, the citrine is good for manifesting hopes and dreams and inviting prosperity, says who. Based on what?

Dan: 29:41

So here's another thing to think about, right, is that buttons and quarters we see all day long and we already have attached strong meanings to what they do and what they're for. Where crystals unless you live in some weird cave somewhere or whatever, you don't see them every day, right, and so they stand out and they don't really have much meaning other than oh, that's a pretty looking object, and to me I don't have like a strong association of a meaning with a crystal. Oh, it's pretty, that's about it. And I think it's easy to then apply some of these beliefs to these different things Okay, Like in that example, citrine.

Charles: 30:21

I would assume that you've probably seen a citrine before and I would also assume that up until you read this book, you had no idea that it was good for manifesting hopes and dreams.

Dan: 30:32

No.

Charles: 30:33

Okay. So just seeing those characters on this page, do you have any more reason now to believe that's true about Citrine than you did 10 minutes ago? Logically speaking, no, Okay, even emotionally. Do you feel like, oh, I had no idea that a citrine could do that for me? Like, at what level does this bring value to you.

Dan: 30:55

Look for those types of things in my world. So, for a common example is I've been trying to sit up with better posture. So what I did was I took a blank post-it note and I put it on places where I sit down, for example, at the dinner table. I have it on the TV. So when I sit down and I happen to, just I'm scanning the room and I happen to notice that post that blank post-it note I will. It's just a reminder for me to sit up. So maybe these are just like ways that you can remind yourself of different right thing.

Charles: 31:35

I guess. My question is and yeah, I don't think it would make something happen I could be nitpicking, I could be just being unnecessarily negative, but like when you read that in this guy's book a concept that you never heard of before and have never experienced before if, instead of that, I were to tell you hey, dan, I think if you want some new financial and business opportunities to pop up in your life, what you need to do is go out to your yard, pick a blade of grass and rub it on your right earlobe and then good fortune will come your way. Good fortune will come your way, wouldn't you say? You have about an equal reason to believe that, other than knowing me that I'm a cynical, sarcastic piece of shit. If I were to tell you that, what are the empirical reasons? You would believe me? Any more or less than what this guy just said about citrine?

Dan: 32:22

Yeah, the fact that he had a book published, and I'm not saying I'm not right, I'm just saying the way I'm interpreting this is these are suggestions, but he's probably saying well, I didn't read deep into this, but yeah, he's probably saying that these have.

Charles: 32:33

I'm sure he heard it from somebody else. Who's that somebody else?

Dan: 32:37

I agree. I agree, but what I'm saying is that you can use them. There is a purpose to using them, and I just don't believe the purpose is they've got power on their own. I just think these might be fun ways to remind yourself to do things yeah, or think of certain.

Charles: 32:56

My whole point in this whole section is listen, we all have a finite amount of time that we are either willing or able to dedicate to taking care of ourselves in a way that will make our lives better. And when he throws up from shaving to going for walks in nature to cold plunges, it's like all of us have to read this book and decide okay, I can't do every single thing that he recommends every single day, or even every single week or every single month. So what criteria should I use to decide which of these things I invest my time in and which ones I don't? And for me, that criteria is going to be something related to Western science and Western medicine, western psychology.

Charles: 33:43

Maybe that's not the best way to go about it, but based on where I was born and how I was raised and the information I've been exposed to, it's very easy for me to classify some of these things as oh, that's something that I don't usually do or I haven't done before.

Charles: 33:57

I can very easily see the value that might have in my life. Where the other things, where it's yeah, that would be a seemingly waste. There'd be a seeming waste of my time and my effort to do these things because I have no reason to believe that it would actually help compared to these other things that he's suggesting, and so we everybody who reads this book will probably have a different way of analyzing, assigning value to these things and coming up with okay, somebody could really say, okay, I I'm not interested in getting a therapist, but I am gonna buy some sage and set it on fire today. Okay, great, Just yeah. Come up with whatever method is consistent with your values and your beliefs and assign priority to these things and don't waste your time on the ones that you don't really think will have much effect.

Dan: 34:44

Yeah, and that's the other thing too, is if you get the sage and then you're not seeing the results that you want.

Charles: 34:50

All right, maybe, and that's the other thing too, is if you get the sage and then you're not seeing the results that you want, all right, maybe we need time to try something else. Yes, I would agree, and I would apply that to all of them. Even going and getting massages. If you go, get a few massages and you don't actually feel any better or more relaxed and stop getting massages, and yeah, but okay, good luck, guys, it's not for you. Yeah, some of this stuff, yeah, all right.

Charles: 35:17

The next one is for me, which is gratitude, and he talks about specifically what we deal with with regular media and social media and constantly seeing the best version of everybody's life and all the fun and exciting things that they do and the cool places that they go. And just keep it in mind that that's not real life and that's not a reason for you to feel bad about yourself, but you're still going to sometimes, you're still going to see what some people are up to and be like man. That's not fair, or I wish I had that. That's just human. So, uh, one thing that will help with that is by taking stock of the things that you do have going for you, working for you and being grateful for those things, and building a practice where you regularly spend time thinking about those things and being grateful for them. It'll it'll make you feel better.

Charles: 36:00

Here's what it is, here's the advice. You can start with a list and that's pretty much any gratitude practices you write, you you think in your mind of some things that you have that you're grateful for, whether that's your health or the breakfast you ate this morning, or whatever small to large thing it could be. Just make a list in your head and then actually write it down on paper or type it up. I think there are some studies that say actually putting pen to paper or pencil to paper is more valuable than typing something, and there are plenty of times where I feel better by journaling in a book than I would by typing it into an app.

Dan: 36:34

And I totally agree with that, and I'm wondering if that's because it takes more energy to write things down rather than typing, and a lot of our stress and anxiety is tied to having extra energy. We've got our fight or flight response going and it's same as like taking a walk Slightly different, a lot less energy to write something, but it's even less energy to type something out versus actually writing, and you might be feeling a little bit more better. Oh boy, kicked me off the podcast right now. Yeah, by doing that, I was wondering if there's something related to the physical action.

Charles: 37:11

The other thing I would think of too that might have some effect is depending on how old you are when you were born. There's a certain connotation to a computer keyboard to me that I still associate it more with work than I associate it with recreation Me too, and my phone not so much, but certainly my computer keyboard. When I'm typing on a computer, even if I'm doing something fun with it, it still it feels like I'm on a work tool, I'm not on a.

Dan: 37:37

I'm not on a fun tool, I'm on a work tool and even when I'm using my phone for any type of journaling, I'm doing voice, I'm speaking into it anyway and I'll type a couple, and then it just gets frustrating to me to type on my phone.

Charles: 37:49

So maybe the act of speaking is I would say it's probably better than typing, but not as good as writing. Exactly. Yeah, that's interesting. He does say to be specific. Try to drill down, like the example he gives is I'm thankful I have food to eat. Instead of that, say, man, I'm thankful for how my omelet came out this morning. And try to really narrow down on it, because it feels more real when the details are in your imagination.

Dan: 38:15

The more you can feel it, the more powerful it's going to be. Yes, absolutely, I'll get specific.

Charles: 38:20

Yes and also be consistent. Try to figure out a time every day that will work for you. I can say I've had the reminder on my productive app to do gratitude journaling at night and I never do it. So night is I had this very what seemed to make sense, this idea of oh, at the end of my day, that's when I'll go through and I will summarize the things that I'm grateful for that day. No, it's for me, it's not working. What I need to do because my five, five year journal. I write in that every morning with much more regularity than I like. Almost every day I'm able to check that off the list. I get it done almost every day, but that's not the case in my gratitude journaling and it's really because of the time of day. So as soon as we're done recording, I'm actually going to move that. So I'm going to take my gratitude journaling off of my evening list and put it on my morning list and I'll just reflect back on what happened yesterday and use that for the fuel for my gratitude.

Dan: 39:15

I'm exactly the same way. I've got so many more morning. It's a five-minute journal. It has both a morning and an evening part. Okay, and you filled out a lot more in the morning section.

Charles: 39:31

I have so many more mornings where like the bottom of blank, yeah, in my. The other thing in my evening habit practice is like I've got on there to wash my face and then put on my night cream that we talked about a few episodes ago, and in my morning I've got washed my face and put on my moisturizer with sunscreen. That happens almost not every. It's not as much as I, as some of my other things. I don't do it quite as often but because a lot of times I'll wash my face in the shower and then my moisturizer's not in the shower, so sometimes the moisturizer won't get on. But it happens way more frequently than a nighttime ritual does. It's just for me, just because of how I like to wake up, how I like to get things done. Having an organized ritual in the evening is a lot harder for me than having one first thing in the morning when I wake up.

Dan: 40:10

Yeah, I'm going to challenge you. I'm going to say, if it was a ritual, you'd be doing it. Okay, fair enough. So I think you just haven't built that ritual yet. And that's where we have to build those rituals and those habits so that we're using less energy. So that's just something you do, you're not thinking about it, yeah, about it, and so it's just, you haven't practiced it enough.

Charles: 40:29

And I haven't practiced it enough because I don't see enough value in it. There you go. I see enough value and that's okay. When it's in the morning. You're not getting enough benefit out of it. Yeah, that's the thing, because when I wash my face and I put moisturizer on, it makes my face feel good. I look better. The idea of doing that and then just crawl into bed, point Right. I'm going to be asleep in 20 minutes.

Dan: 40:50

So for me, the evening journaling when that happens it's because the why for me is strong enough, and what that is usually is I feel like I am multitasking, I'm spinning in my wheels, I'm not getting a lot of stuff done or accomplished that is productive, and I feel like I've done nothing all day long but been so busy, and so it's just like I'm feeling stressed, I'm not sleeping. Now that gets to a point of where I'm like all right, let me just write down everything I did today. It's not even gratitude. Let me just make an inventory of all the stuff I did do and then I'll look at that list at the end of the day before bed and I'll be like, wow, I did do a lot and it also helps me prioritize for the next year. Okay, wait a minute, I wasted too much time doing this stuff or whatever and it wasn't beneficial for me, but it settles me down and go. Okay, I didn't completely waste my life today.

Charles: 41:38

It's a great reminder that we're not going to build habits for things we don't care enough about. It's just not going to happen, so you've got to care enough about it to turn it into a basket. Yeah, I get to the bottom of that. So he says to keep it fresh, which means don't just write the same three things every day, or four things, or five things like.

Dan: 41:55

Figure out some way to introduce some variety into what you're thankful for, because, yeah, if it's going to lose its meaning to you if you just keep writing the same three, things that every day we were talking about affirmations, where you keep saying the same affirmation over and over again and it's you don't really believe it and that's what you got to feel. It you got to believe it. It's got to be meaningful for you. Versus it starts turning into background noise if it's the same exactly.

Charles: 42:18

He does suggest to find time throughout the day to do this, and I believe, in context, I think what he's saying is have your consistent schedule where this is the time that you do it, but then, in addition to that, find some additional. As things happen on the fly, try to recognize them as something to be grateful for and make some sort of a note again, whether that's. I'm not going to travel throughout the day with my gratitude journal, so I've got to either record a voice memo or type it into my phone or something. When I, or even just you, know if I'm in a private place, say it to myself verbally out loud that just happened and I'm thankful for it. Something like that, where you're bringing attention to your ability to feel gratitude for things. Maybe take a picture of it.

Dan: 42:56

Oh, that's a good idea too. Just do a voice caption, yeah, text caption on that picture yeah, you remember, okay, what it was that triggered those feelings, and just make a quick note.

Charles: 43:06

Yeah, that's a good idea. Just make a quick note. Yeah, that's a good idea, Something to break up your your day with a little bit of gratitude, because there's way less valuable things that are going to interrupt you. You might as well interrupt yourself with something good. Be flexible, which means if you miss a day or you're unable to come up with something because your mood's very low that day, then that's okay, that you don't need to experience some sort of a spiral where it's like I give up on gratitude journaling, now I'm not going to do it anymore when, in a lot of ways, that is something that I mean we all experience that with diet, exercise, other positive habits, where it's okay, I missed a day, so now why bother? Yeah, when you know being able to recover from personal failures is a pretty important thing and being able to not beat yourself up over it, and so certainly gratitude journaling would fall into that.

Charles: 43:54

He does mention we talked a little bit about social media being the thing that kind of gets you feeling bad about yourself or your situation. Here's some tips that he says specific for Instagram, because it's the one where people really like to showcase what they're doing. Limit your time that you spend, and you can do that by setting up. Most smartphones will have a tracker where you can either have it alert you or you can tell it flat out. Don't let me use this after a certain amount of time per day, per week, whatever. Unfollow people who make you feel bad about yourself. So if you're following people who are either very successful, very wealthy, very fit, very attractive and you're thinking, oh, this will motivate me, but really what it's doing is making you feel just bad about yourself all the time, Just stop following them. You can find other ways to motivate yourself than looking at people who seemingly have it all together. Mute your friends when they're on vacation.

Dan: 44:46

I thought that was a good tip.

Charles: 44:47

Yeah, I think so too.

Dan: 44:49

I never thought about that, but that's a great idea.

Charles: 44:51

Yeah, I've never really. Part of this is probably because I travel so much. I've never really felt like FOMO when somebody else is on a vacation. I've never really thought, oh, I feel bad that I'm not there, right now yeah.

Charles: 45:01

But I could see where that could be a factor. And if it is, then yeah, just you can mute them. And then, at some point, where you're not seeing, they're posting their story 20 times a day, every day, in these beautiful places. It's like usually most people who they'll either save it as a highlight or they'll do one post that you can swipe through after their vacation. Just look at that and then you're done.

Charles: 45:26

It's not. You're not constantly being interrupted by your with your Instagram browsing of all these great things that your friends or acquaintances happen to be up to. And then, finally, remember that influencers are not your friends. They're trying to sell you things, whether that's the products that sponsor them or their lifestyle. And, yeah, if somebody is a big enough deal that they are an influencer, that they're probably getting to do some things for free that you don't get to do, or they're probably getting to do some things that are partially paid for that you wouldn't be paying for, and that's deceiving, because then you might be thinking, hey, this is important enough for this person to spend the money to do this thing.

Dan: 46:02

Meanwhile, they got it for free and probably wouldn't have done it. Yeah, exactly, that's a possibility as well.

Charles: 46:13

Yeah, all right. So let me see, I still want to. We got one more chapter to get through in this section and I think we can do it. We're about 59 minutes now, but this chapter is titled how to be an extrovert, which I think is a little bit of a clickbaity title. Introverts, as far as I know, can't turn themselves into extroverts. They can certainly develop habits that make them more outgoing. Yeah, but if you're an introvert, you're an introvert. If you're an extrovert, you're an extrovert. That's just the way it's going to be. Reshaping basic portions of your personality, because a book tells you to, is not something that I would really put much time or effort into.

Dan: 46:44

Yeah, I would not look for this to be changing your personality in any way, but more.

Charles: 46:50

Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert is a pretty basic part of your personality. I don't think again. In the actual text of the chapter he doesn't say here's how you go from being an introvert to an extrovert. I think it's just a crappy title that was made to get attention, I think the title should be how, to be more extroverted.

Charles: 47:07

Exactly yes, yes, where? Yeah, and being an extrovert and introvert is part of your identity and, as far as I know that, that gets formed with your personality when you're pretty young and it's not something that you can just up and change Now. According to the Myers-Briggs that I've taken multiple times, I'm on the fence between introvert and extrovert and usually I'm on the extrovert side of it. But you've dealt with me in public before. There's some times where it's like Charles does not look very extroverted. Right now, charles looks like there's nowhere he'd rather be than at his house alone, and I certainly do feel that way sometimes. But then other times I'm at a party, I'm at a large social function, I'm having a blast, I'm feeling energized by it.

Dan: 47:45

So I think it just really depends on the event the event and, yeah, and the person.

Charles: 47:50

There are some people that are probably extroverted 99% of the time and some people that are introverted 99% of the time, where I just happen to be one of those people that's a little bit closer to the border between the two, and so, yes, when you are close to the border, then it really does depend on, okay, who are the people there, what's the activity, what's the venue like, what kinds of things are there that you really enjoy? What kind of things are there that annoy you, like loud music, for example, or whatever. It is sure, yeah, yeah, and I would say, yeah, there's no but, and we'll get into some of the methods for how you can teach yourself to be more outgoing. One of the things he suggests is get more into listening to what people have to say and not being up in your head while somebody's talking to you, so really try to pay attention to their story.

Dan: 48:30

That's not easy, yeah, at least not for me.

Charles: 48:34

Again, that's another thing that depends on the person too. It's what are they telling me? Who are they? Do I feel like they're worth listening to, or am I just going to check out and think about what I'm going to say next or what I did that day at work or whatever? But yeah, the better listener you are and the more people feel like you're a good listener, the more social opportunities you'll have.

Charles: 48:55

That's the first thing on the list. Next is visualize, and that's where he suggests before you go to event with a lot of people and a lot of activity that might not be your kind of thing by default, do some work visualizing what it would be like to be there and having a great time and what would the most fun version of this look like. And then, when you're there and you're not in the most fun version, you're in the most realistic version. You can at least bring put your attention toward the parts of it that are the most fun for you and focus on those things instead of the things that are the most annoying for you.

Dan: 49:24

Yeah, I think by default.

Dan: 49:25

a lot of times I'm guilty of this is I'm visualizing all the stuff that's going to annoy me, or all the stuff that's going to go wrong or all that, and again when I consciously decide not to go at all but when I consciously like ignore that part of my thought process and either and either, and usually I'm not visualizing all the things that are going to go well, I just stop my, my primitive brain, from coming up with these assumptions in these extremes of the negative side. So that's really all I've gotten to. I've never actually taken the time to visualize all the wonderful things that could happen. So that's interesting.

Charles: 50:12

And yeah, one thing he doesn't mention I don't think maybe he does kind of the next section.

Charles: 50:14

It's not about being more outgoing or extroverted, but I would say, if you're going to something like that where you think there's a good chance that there are going to be some things that make you uncomfortable or annoying but there could be some things that are fun, just try to go with somebody that you usually have a good time with, because then you can tell yourself okay, if I go to this thing and it's not ideal at least I'll be with someone.

Charles: 50:30

I always have a good time when I'm hanging out with him or her. And then, especially if you have the same things that you enjoy, the same things that annoy you when somebody does something stupid you can give them a glance and be on the same page of them. There's a lot of value in having somebody who's on the same page with you to enjoy or be annoyed by those things with you. So I would say, yeah, don't try to go out and do these alone and white knuckle your way through it. Yeah, if you've got a buddy or a friend that you can go and enjoy it with and maybe you'd have a friend that talks you into going to some of these things that you wouldn't normally go to.

Dan: 51:04

Yeah, what's actually been surprising for me is listening to briefly my negative thoughts about how much effort and time and energy this is going to take to go to do this thing, and I'm a little bit tired right now.

Dan: 51:18

And when I shut that down, what I've done is I've set the bar really low, so it doesn't take much good thing to happen. It could have been just a mediocre type of experience that happens. It was as bad as I thought it might be and what that has done is in my mind I've developed a pattern of every time I don't feel like doing something and I push myself to do it anyway. It's always a surprisingly good thing that happens at that event and I've developed that kind of pattern event and I've developed that kind of pattern. So now it's easier, it's quicker for me to dismiss my, my, my primitive brain and just move on and just go instead of wallowing it, wallowing in it and thinking about it, and end up not going and procrastinating and then, before you know, it's too late to even go right. Yes, that's just a little insight that you didn't ask for. You're welcome.

Charles: 52:06

I know I appreciate it. The other, the insight I'll offer that you didn't ask for is if you try to set up these growth opportunities, that to be events that are free or very low cost, then you also don't have to beat yourself up about leaving early and bailing. Good point, right, yeah, and I've. I've done that. And only there's only one time I could think about where I was at an event and it wasn't what I thought it was going to be and I wasn't having fun. But it was among, like, friends and acquaintances and, uh, I told somebody. I was like, hey, man, I gotta get going.

Charles: 52:39

They foolishly responded with why, which generally I invite people ask why. In situations that they shouldn't ask why and I do not coddle them I say because I don't want to be here anymore. That's why I told the person and then I left Because, look, in that situation I don't think you lie, I don't think you make up an excuse. I decided I wasn't having fun, I didn't want to be there anymore, so I decided to leave and a socially intelligent person would say, oh, thanks for coming, it was good to see you, and then safe travels, or something like that. There's people in your life who are a little bit less emotionally or socially intelligent when it comes to that and lack some tact and don't really understand how that interaction should go in most in polite society. And so they'll ask a question like why, where are you going? Why are you leaving so early? And I think those people deserve the truth.

Dan: 53:28

Because I don't want to be here anymore. Maybe you should say that to the host of the party.

Charles: 53:33

If the host of the party is the kind of person who says why, when I tell them that I'm leaving Especially if I'm like, thanks for inviting me, but I got to get going and then they hit me, that's different. Then they hit me with a why I got to get going. If I say I got to get going, and then they hit me with a why, that's when they get the I don't want to be here anymore. Some social graces Okay, I've got all the social graces. I didn't do anything wrong in this scenario. I don't want to be here anymore. I only say that when somebody says why, okay, I, I've got to go.

Dan: 54:05

Okay, okay.

Charles: 54:06

I thought it started with no, no. I always would start with hey, I've got to get going. And then if the I got to get going is not enough for somebody, if they want to Poke the bear, you want to poke the bear. Here's the truth. Exactly Open kimono, here you go. That's right. Okay, yes, because again in that situation up an excuse I'm unwilling to say I saw on my home security camera that my cat threw up. I got to go take care of it, or I'm not feeling well, or I got to wake up early in the morning. No, if I got to get going, it's not enough for you, then okay, here you go. So I guess the other lesson is, when somebody says they got to get going, just say okay, good to see you, safe travel, you don't need to dig you don't need to dig, because then at that point you're trying to make them feel.

Dan: 54:49

I feel like they're trying to make you feel guilty.

Charles: 54:50

Yeah, because it does feel like it feels like they're opening the door to talk you out of the reason. Right, yeah, it's just all right. Yeah, we're not going to play this game. No, we're not, okay. So here's one that originally said it the idea of if it's not a, if it's not a hell, yeah, it's a no, it's a hell, no, yeah. Yeah, if it's not a yes, it's a hell, no, correct, yeah, in my own. That has been much more valuable to me than say yes to everything Because, look, you go to EDC. You've gone at least a year or two, right, yeah? If you invited me to that, there's no way I would say yes to it. Yeah, because I would only ruin my night and yours and anybody else who was close enough to me.

Dan: 55:47

Yeah.

Charles: 55:49

Because I'm a 46 year old man. I know the things that I might be into. I know the things I'm absolutely not into, and spending my time on the things that I'm absolutely not into is not going to help anybody, including me, which is most important, I would say. If somebody invites you to something that you absolutely know, either because of your social anxiety or because of the way you react to loud noises, or because of the way you're uncomfortable in crowds, look for little opportunities to stretch some of those when you can. But in my example, going to EDC would be like the worst possible scenario for me, and so I would just never do it. Yeah, and so when something hits your radar in that way where you're like, oh my God, that seems terrible. Like Times Square, new Year's Eve would be like top of that list for me as well. Somebody invited me to that. There's no way I'm saying yes to that, because you know enough because you've been in similar situations.

Charles: 56:43

Yeah, I've been in the lower versions of that situation than. I hated, yeah, so why would I go to a situation that ramps it up even more? And yeah, and I would say, yeah, you don't. To experience growth, you don't have to make yourself do things that you hate. In fact, that's the opposite of growth. That will turn you off from even trying the little things that could benefit. And don't go to that extreme. It's go big or go home, right.

Dan: 57:08

Yeah, yeah, that could benefit, and don't go to that extreme. It's go big or go home, right? Yeah, yeah, and we've talked about that. So, for example, you've gone to a smaller music venue and you really haven't enjoyed that. Yeah, when I was in Vanguard with you guys.

Charles: 57:16

It wasn't awful. It was enough for me to be like, okay, just check it in. It still isn't my thing, but I wasn't miserable sitting there. I'm having a miserable time, but it wasn't. But it also wasn't. Oh, I should do more of this, correct, and so, yeah, I would say yeah, there you go. So don't take his advice of not saying no to anything. I would say be willing to do some things that you're not sure about and that you might usually find a little bit uncomfortable. Use your discretion Right, but don't just go to the worst possible version of something because somebody invited you.

Dan: 57:48

Yeah, I think the rule of thumb here is, if it makes you a little uncomfortable, then maybe consider doing a yes here where it's a lot uncomfortable.

Charles: 57:59

Yeah, here's another part that is seemingly to me, self-contradictory. The very next one is accept yourself. Opening yourself up to new people and new experiences doesn't mean you have to completely change your life. Look for a balance you feel comfortable with, yes, but look for there's no balance in saying yes to every invitation. That's the opposite of balance, right? So I'll believe the second part, which is where he's right, and I'll ignore the first part where he's wrong. All right, we're almost. Let's just we got a couple more pages how to share self-care. You can do this. You don't have to do all this on your own. You don't have to try to adopt some of these practices for making your life better by yourself. There's ways that you can share this with other people which will actually make it easier. Yeah, start a podcast. Start a podcast. That's a big one, right?

Charles: 58:42

Yep, when you're at the mall with Dan, suggest, suggest that both of you go in for chair massages. I'd love me a chair massage. Yes, that was fun, the two of us. That wasn't on our agenda that day, but we're like hey, we're here. I told you I was like. I was here last week and I got a pretty good chair massage. Let's pop in and get one, and we both sat there and let the guys work on us. It was great. Participate in group activities like workout classes, group book club and that kind of goes.

Charles: 59:07

Next with the next one is you social media. Facebook is great for finding calendar like events that are that your friends are already going to that you might be interested in, and meetupcom is great too, and their app is good for finding things like the one that I almost went to a bajillion times with people who would go to Disney to get their steps in. There were like or three walking groups that would go to Disney Universal and they would walk around the hotels, walk around the lakes and just get their steps in that way. That sounds great, while chit-chatting with each other.

Charles: 59:37

Yeah, and the chit-chatting with each other was the part that kind of kept me from doing it. The other thing was they want you to RSVP so they know how many people not going to say I'm going. If there's a chance that I might bail, so I'll just not commit to going at all, but stuff like that. That's one of those areas where it might be a little uncomfortable for me, but I should probably try it anyway. Yeah, no, as opposed to Charles, you should go run the Boston marathon.

Dan: 59:57

And one of the one of the things the points that you made which is important is think about if you're going to do something that potentially is uncomfortable whether that's going to the event or something happening at the event think about what your exit strategies could be and that might grease the wheels enough for you actually go. So you having a chit chat with somebody that you don't want, you could just say hey, listen, I'm listening to a book or a podcast or whatever on your phone yeah.

Dan: 1:00:20

You put in the and I just walk by yourself.

Charles: 1:00:22

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's a great out for you and me. We do a podcast where we review and analyze books, so that's a very honest and very convenient excuse to say hey, I've got to, uh, I gotta, I gotta listen to this book before the podcast episode I have to record on Friday. So, uh, I don't want to talk to you anymore.

Dan: 1:00:41

Yeah, knowing you can unwind what you've done Right, it helps me try new things. Exactly, it's not set in stone.

Charles: 1:00:48

Yeah, you're not there forever. Yeah, to go out and try a try. A running group or a walking group is not. You're not signing a one year contract at a gym, you're just popping in and you're seeing if you like it. And even if you want to bail in the middle of it, you could just just give them the hey, I got to get going. Yeah, and again, nine out of 10 people will not say why. If they do, then let them have it. You know your response. So, talking about it. So, yeah, when you're hanging out with your friends, family, talk about some of the new self-care practices, and that might lead to a conversation of oh, I'd love to try that too. Next time you're going, give me a call and let's do it together. And then finally open your mind, be open to even new kinds of self-care that may not have been covered in this book, although it seems like he got most of them, but they're doing new things with new people. You could see some opportunities come up when you're when you're on the lookout for it. And then the last section he does mention if you are an extrovert. If introversion is not your problem, if extroversion is. Here's some of the things that you can do to get some of that time to recharge and not feel like you constantly have to be entertaining other people.

Charles: 1:01:49

Turn off your phone, or I don't you. I hardly ever turn my phone off. My move, the thing I use frequently. I love the do not disturb with the location feature. It says I was on a date last night and once, once I verified that she was about to walk in, she was going to need to text me for directions or an emergency or whatever.

Charles: 1:02:08

I put my phone on do not disturb, and it said until I leave this location, and so automatically, while you're. I use that for my men's group too and I tell it okay, as long as I'm in this geographic location, I don't want to see any alerts or things like that, and it's it's my favorite version of the do not disturb that iPhones have is to say, cause to say, because it's the things I find important that I have to give all my attention to are almost always location-based. You're right, yeah, so I could very easily say as long as I'm in this place, I don't want my phone to interrupt it. Yeah, yeah, turning your phone off, I don't do that, but I use do not disturb.

Dan: 1:02:39

I use the time. But again, I didn't think about that. Because a lot, and all of a sudden I'm getting all these alerts and stuff like that because I took my time too long. Exactly, yeah.

Charles: 1:02:51

I used to do that at first because my men's group is an hour, so I would set it for an hour. But then the meeting after the meeting, when you're having a coffee and you're having a deep conversation, one-on-one with somebody, you don't want your phone to start, you know, buzzing you like crazy. I'm going to start using location. I love it. So yeah, that's. And then, finally, for extroverts, declining invitations, instead of saying yes to everything, pick one thing to politely decline each week, and I could see that I could see some value in saying no, and there's business books and workbooks that talk about that too, and I think even no More.

Charles: 1:03:20

Mr Nice Guy said the idea of not just saying no to something, but asking someone to do something for you that you could do for yourself. There's value in that. There's also value in saying no to things that you could do. It's not just to mess with people, it's to say okay, no, my schedule is not something that just happens automatically based on what other people need of me. My schedule happens intentionally, based on what I need to get out of life.

Dan: 1:03:45

Yeah, I literally this week made theme days. I put it on my whiteboard I don't know if you saw it, but I figured out what my priorities are for each day of the week, like Fridays friends, saturdays for relationships, sundays for work, personal development stuff. And then Wednesdays is for house cleaning and tasks and organizing and stuff. And I realized that's my natural tendency. I tried to make Wednesdays to do creative work and the problem is I am still in the middle of the work week and I'm still getting customers and everybody else pinging me for work related stuff. So I can't my brain can't turn that off and be creative to work on coaching stuff. So I realized what I was doing anyway was I was doing laundry in between, like checking some email or whatever. So I'm like you know what I can do, the physical stuff around the house. So my Wednesdays are that priority. I'm going to try to say no to things that don't fall into those categories on those days.

Charles: 1:04:40

Yeah, that's another thing that this book I'm going through mentions a lot, which is we were so naive back in the nineties when multitasking as soon as it became a product feature to use to sell the Windows operating system that everybody decided we had to integrate it into our careers. That switching cost of going from one kind of work to another kind of work. It does eat up time, and also with me and my whatever level of ADHD I have, when I'm in the middle of switching from one thing to another is when I'm at the most of switching from one thing to another is when I'm at the most vulnerable for some distraction to pop it. When I'm immersed in doing the thing that I've got to get done, distractions will still get to me, but not nearly as much as when I'm in, when I have just finished one thing and I've just started another thing. That's when I really get distracted by something else. All right, we covered a lot today and we finished this unit on the spirit and we won't have to talk about it again.

Charles: 1:05:33

Nice, nice work. Thanks, congratulations. I will talk to you soon, dan, and I will. I'll edit some stuff out so we can shorten this one a little bit. We're pushing. An hour and a half Sounds good. All right Talk. You made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.