Beyond Words: The Love Language of Physical Touch

In this enlightening episode, "Beyond Words: The Love Language of Physical Touch," hosts Dan and Charles delve into the nuances of physical touch as a love language and its significance in relationships. Here’s what you can expect from this episode:

Introduction
Dan and Charles catch up on recent events, including Charles's RV air conditioner saga and upcoming plans in Orlando.

Understanding Physical Touch
Charles shares his experience taking the love languages quiz, highlighting the significance of physical touch and words of affirmation. They discuss common misconceptions about physical touch, emphasizing that it goes beyond sexual intimacy to include simple gestures like a hand on the shoulder or a hug.

Childhood and Physical Touch
They reflect on childhood games that involved physical touch and how they shaped our understanding of this love language. Statistics from Gary Chapman’s website on the prevalence of physical touch as a primary love language are also shared.

Impact of Physical Touch in Relationships
The hosts explore the importance of meeting your partner’s need for physical touch and the potential consequences of neglecting it. They discuss the emotional and psychological impact of withholding physical touch in a relationship.

Navigating Physical Touch in Daily Life
Practical tips are provided for incorporating more physical touch into your daily routine with your partner. The hosts address the challenges and awkwardness that may arise when trying to increase physical affection.

Therapy and Physical Touch
They talk about the role of therapy in overcoming barriers to physical touch, especially for those with past traumas. They highlight how seeking professional help can facilitate better understanding and fulfillment of this love language.

Games and Tools for Building Physical Intimacy
The hosts recommend card games and apps designed to enhance physical intimacy and communication between partners, sharing personal anecdotes and experiences with these tools.

The Role of Sexual Touch
They discuss the distinction between physical touch and sexual touch within the context of a relationship, encouraging openness and experimentation with tools and toys to enhance sexual intimacy.

Practical Exercises
Suggestions are provided for specific activities and routines to increase physical touch, such as touch experiments and learning body massage techniques. The importance of clear communication and setting expectations with your partner is emphasized.

Conclusion
The hosts share final thoughts on the importance of physical touch in maintaining a healthy and fulfilling relationship. They also tease upcoming episodes on learning your partner’s love language and troubleshooting relationship issues.

Tune in to "Beyond Words: The Love Language of Physical Touch" to gain a deeper understanding of how this love language can transform your relationship and bring you closer to your partner. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode!

Keywords: Physical touch, love language, relationships, intimacy, Gary Chapman, physical affection, emotional connection, therapy, sexual touch, relationship advice, podcast for men, improving relationships.

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. Okay, today is our final episode that we are doing one episode for each of the five love languages from the five love languages for men. In the following episodes we'll finish out the book with some troubleshooting, frequently asked questions, episodes on anger and apologizing. So please follow or subscribe with your favorite podcast app or check out our full episodes with audio and video on YouTube. Thanks and enjoy. Good afternoon, charles. Hello, I'm good, dan. Thanks, welcome back. I am.

Charles: 0:38

Nothing's changed with my RV air conditioner yet, but that's because we recorded that episode just an hour or two ago. Conditioner yet, but that's because we recorded that episode just an hour or two ago. Just as soon as we're done with this episode, I'm going to place the order for my new AC unit. I've got to go to a work convention down near International Drive. I'll be staying down there and working down there for quite a few days. Hopefully that will give the freight guy plenty of time to deliver my new unit to the company who's installing it for me. Hopefully tonight will be my last night sleeping in my camper without AC, but the floor fan did a pretty good job keeping me cool last night.

Dan: 1:13

How hot is it getting in there?

Charles: 1:15

It said that it hit 90 two nights ago. Like around 6 pm at night it just topped over 89 and hit 90 degrees, but that was before I had the additional fan blowing and yeah, 90 is pretty uncomfortable you're sleeping in 80 degrees high 80s, something like that when I went to bed last night it was over 80, and then it overnight again.

Charles: 1:41

With all the fans and stuff running, it got down to about 68 or 69 degrees. Really right, yeah. Once the sun went down and I had all the fans I had, the air conditioner fan was on high and all the vents were shut down except the one blown right at me, and then the new fan was blowing right at me but oscillating back and forth on its highest setting. So, yeah, it got it got down 68 or 69. I can't use my blanket like at all.

Charles: 2:04

Oh, no way, I'm just kind of like laying on the fitted sheet with nothing on top of me, and that is not how I prefer to sleep. Considering it's Florida, I think you're doing all right. I think I might try an escape room on Monday. There's plenty of good ones, apparently over on the I-Drive area, and the only one I've done so far has been on a cruise ship.

Dan: 2:25

I drive area, and the only one I've done so far has been on a cruise ship.

Charles: 2:27

I can't imagine how it could be any good on a cruise ship. So there's actually a star trek themed one somewhere in orlando very cool, which I thought I might want to try. But it's star trek discovery, which is like one of the new star treks I don't actually watch so I don't know how much I would get the references. Universal apparently has a jurassic park. And back to the future escape room oh, that could be fun. From the intellectual property. I'm a big fan of both of those. Yeah, but I've heard that the quality of play is not as good. Find one that you really like. Yeah, I'm probably going to try that this week. And then I've got a couple of dinners with my clients and with my friends from my fraternal organization. I got one tomorrow.

Charles: 3:05

I got one tomorrow, I got one on saturday and I got one on tuesday quite the busy social schedule and work schedule. I'm going to be working like crazy this week, okay, so let's talk about love language number five, which is physical touch. And this does come up as my love language when I took the test on gary chapman's website, but I want to say it came up two out of three times, or one out of three times, and words of affirmation were the other one, and I'm not certain until I take the full paid for version where it's going to come out for me on what my number one is. But to do, enjoy physical touch, and I feel good when my partner initiates physical touch and again, that's just putting a hand on my shoulder or whatever. It's not just about sex, which is one of the things he addresses in this chapter.

Charles: 3:52

Just because you're a guy who likes having sex with your partner doesn't mean physical touch is necessarily your love language, although I can understand why we might make that assumption right, absolutely All right. First, he starts off as a kid. How often did you play touch football in your neighborhood? Play Marco Polo, thumb wrestle, gary? I don't know how much two hand touch football you've played, but the object is not to get touched. So I don't yeah. I don't know how much that really yeah Weighs in. He does say for roughly four fifths of married people, physical touch may be your love language, but I actually looked up during our preparation for the last episode to see how these break down among people who've taken the quiz on his website. Quality time is number one the most frequently 33% of the time. Physical touch is number two at 23% of the time. Acts of service is number three at 20%. Words of affirmation is fourth at 17%. And then receiving gifts, or giving gifts as he calls it is only 7% of the people that take the test. That's their number one.

Dan: 4:53

Interesting.

Charles: 4:54

Yeah, quality time first, then physical touch, then acts of service, then words of affirmation, then receiving gifts. So when he says four-fifths of the people may not feel the negatives from a lack of physical touch, it's actually going to be a little bit lower than that, because physical touch is a little higher than an even 20%, which is, if they were distributed equally it would be 20% across the board. But, yeah, physical touch does it for more people than the average, and quality time does it more than a lot. I'm willing to bet that more women take the quiz online than men do, and the fact that quality time is number one also tells me that might skew feminine rather than masculine.

Charles: 5:37

Fair, yeah, he does talk about how the when you don't meet your partner's need for physical touch if that's their primary love language, that can be a little bit more difficult than managing the outcomes around. That can be more difficult Because generally, if you are married to a woman in a monogamous relationship, she doesn't really have a lot of opportunities to get her physical touch needs met by somebody else. Yeah, her mom, her sister, her friend is going to give a hug, maybe a kiss on the cheek when they meet each other or part company, but for the most part you're not going to want a lot of people touching on your wife or girlfriend to the degree that she might need it If, if physical touches her love language yeah, he talks about also helping people understand what this physical touch, somebody whose love language is physical touch, similar to people who are super tasters, and I thought of you, because you seem to also have a very refined taste.

Dan: 6:41

I know a couple other people where, yeah, they'll take, they'll be able to taste differences in things, where I was like I, I can't tell at all. So I just might be the exact opposite of a super taster and I'm not even normal, because there's certain things I'm just like I can't tell the difference of this at all and for some people it's such a dramatic experience for them that they won't even go near it. And I'm just, what are you talking about? I'm like just woof it down or just swallow it. It's not supposed to be an ice cream milkshake and that's even still. There's a lot of people I know that just can't.

Dan: 7:13

Yeah, certain people, there are certain smells that just make them absolutely nauseous. For me as a kid it was broccoli my mom would steam broccoli?

Charles: 7:19

Oh, interesting.

Dan: 7:20

It just smelled like sulfur and just rotten eggs to me all the time anymore. I don't know.

Charles: 7:25

Yeah, there have been a couple times when my parents would make corned beef and cabbage and I'm generally not opposed to the taste of cabbage, but smelling cabbage cooking would make me sick. Withholding of that physical touch from them can be a source of pain and anxiety and self-doubt. And, yeah, somebody will feel awful. If that's their primary language and they're not getting it, then, yeah, I would expect them to have some pretty negative reactions to that.

Dan: 8:02

Yeah, it's interesting.

Charles: 8:03

It's a form of abuse, I feel like if you are purposely withholding affection for somebody that you know it could be mentally and emotionally abusive, yeah, and I think for it to cross that line it depends on what your motivation is, because a lot of people are dealing with their own traumas and histories where physical touch is difficult for them to initiate for their partner. But yeah, again we talked about in the last episode, your intention is not the only thing that matters, even if you have the best intentions. Your impact matters too. And so if you find yourself with a partner who values physical touch and you just can't make yourself do it, then that impact of that is going to be severe on them. And then you know, then it's up to you. Sometimes it's not just read this book and decide, oh, I'm going to be more physical, sometimes it's crap. Now I have to go and get into trauma therapy so that I can get to the root of why physical touch is so hard for me to initiate or participate in. And then I got to fix those issues and then I've got to bring that healing into my relationship and try to deal with how my partner feels after the last X number of years of not getting this from me.

Charles: 9:14

So again, I feel like this book, when it has an opportunity to go below the surface, chooses never to do that and that's a little frustrating for me. It's like there's usually some pretty complicated, pretty serious trauma underlying the reason why you don't feel safe giving your partner what they need in their love language. It feels like there's almost always a path you're going to have to go down to repair that in yourself so that you can then show up as somebody who's healed to your relationship and give your partner what they need. And the fact that he almost never addresses that people have complicated reasons for not giving their partners what they need oh, he just hasn't read my book yet. It feels a little overly simplistic to not say okay.

Charles: 10:04

The reason, because I do believe, without even reading this book on love languages the act of courting and falling in love with somebody. You're probably picking up on what it is that they need from you and sometimes, again, the drugs of limerence that your body is producing. It's allowing you to get past those limitations and those traumas to give them what it is that they want from you because it feels good. But then as you get more intimately close to them and they see more and more of who you are, the scarier it gets to continue that behavior and then those traumas that were pushed down thanks to all of the oxytocin and the dopamine floating around in your body. That starts to wear off and the traumas come back up and you're back to okay.

Charles: 10:52

I don't feel so good about filling their love tank with physical touch, for example. Yeah, and so I do find some of the language he uses to communicate the lack of physical touch is a little silly, like the example of a slap in the face is shocking to anyone, but it would be devastating to someone whose primary love language is physical touch yeah, it's a bit extreme what?

Charles: 11:14

yeah, oh my. My wife's love language, primary love language is quality time, so she'll be able to roll with it a lot easier. If I slap her in the face, somebody whose primary language was physical touch, that's ridiculous. It's just the worst if you do that to anybody, and it doesn't really matter what their love language is.

Dan: 11:32

Again, it's the benefit of a could you imagine somebody going oh my god, he or she slapped me in the face and the worst part of it is is physical touch. Is my love language?

Charles: 11:42

yeah, would you ever hear that? No, certainly not.

Charles: 11:47

And so again, that's thank god, right, brush it off and he makes the same kind of case about infidelity and yet sleeping with somebody outside of your marriage, and it's that's bad. But it's even worse. If her love language is physical touch, it's okay. What if her? So, if her love language is words of affirmation, then it's so much worse for her if you tell her how hot some other girl is. Yeah, it's very simplistic.

Charles: 12:13

And then you put somebody with a little bit more background in the science of relationships in the room and they're going what are you talking about? This sounds you can't say that. That's insane. Yeah, anyway. Yeah. Then he talks about I just. There's one other reference he makes where if you extend your hand to someone and they leave you hanging by refusing to shake it, you'll likely assume one of three things the guy's a raging jerk, he has no interest in getting to know you, or things are not right in your relationship. Your act, your reaction to the snub will depend on who's doing the snubbing. If it's an opponent you just beat in a pickup basketball game, you probably won't give it a second thought. They don't do that.

Dan: 12:53

It's controversy.

Charles: 12:55

I've seen fights break because a guy at a softball game pulled his hand away from one player and then immediately a fight started, yep. And so for him to say, say oh, if that's what happened and they snub you, yeah, you'll probably think it's no big deal. He's never played a pickup game of anything in his life and he's never watched a fight happen as a result.

Dan: 13:13

I remember playing soccer in high school when at the end of the game if you didn't like slap somebody's hand, whatever, because you like hated that person. That that was news for the week?

Charles: 13:22

yes, absolutely overshadowed what happened in the actual game yeah, and I feel like, yeah, if you've played any sports or even watched any sports, you would never say it's no big deal. And then he says if your wife's love language is physical touch and you're her primary source of love and affirmation, then you might see this as pressure, but you can choose to look at it as a challenge and an opportunity. And yeah, that's just a feel good platitude. There are challenges in every relationship, no matter what your love language is, no matter what your partner's love language is, and depending on what you're bringing into this relationship from your childhood, your past relationships. Some of this is going to be really hard to turn around without engaging the help of a therapist, a recovery group or something. I feel like this book and the people that recommend this book tend to overestimate its value and its efficacy in fixing some of the relationship problems that you might run into.

Dan: 14:25

Yeah, One of the issues I had in this chapter was he says things like you know doing like a baseline test of your current physical relationship with your wife, but doesn't tell you like what does that look like? How do you do this baseline test, Other than to me reminding you just hey, take an inventory at the end of the day and remember every single time that you touched her or you missed an opportunity to touch her.

Charles: 14:52

Who?

Dan: 14:52

kissed her, gave her a hug, held her hand put your arm around her, grabbed her around her waist, gave her a high five, playfully wrestled with her rubbed her shoulder.

Charles: 14:59

Are you going to remember, at the end of the day, how many times you did any of those things Like literally, even if you turned this into a spreadsheet with check boxes and then you printed it out and all you had to do was go down and make take a mark every time that you did it? Like no, unless I am in the moment using my phone to keep track of it, like literally, I just gave her a hug and then I walked away and then I pulled my phone out and I was like, okay, I got to mark this down, but yeah, to do it at the end of the day, I would not have the memory to be able to do that accurately, would you? No, I don't think anybody would.

Dan: 15:34

No, I don't think so.

Charles: 15:36

We all talk about how self-reported studies are always so unreliable anyway, but with something like this, where the temptation to fudge the numbers is probably so high anyway, I feel like if you're going to look at this list and do any of these things, it's going to be running through, and you don't normally do these.

Dan: 15:55

This is going to be the idea.

Charles: 15:57

Let's talk about it in terms of logging your food consumption. The idea is you spend it before you start any diet or any change for getting into shape, for a sporting event or whatever. You record everything as a baseline and even with that, it's never. Nobody ever says at the end of the day, write down all the food. It's always either carry a pad with you or have an app on your phone and in the moment take a picture or whatever. But yeah, so you do the baseline and then the idea is you change it a little bit at a time over time so that it's easier to make the changes.

Charles: 16:29

If your baseline is currently zero, where you're barely touching her at all, then, yes, any change that you make is going to feel like a big deal and like you're trying to do something. It's going to feel weird and uncomfortable for you and for her probably. And again, that's one of the things where, if you're trying to do this, having a therapist that you can talk to and work through with your wife or partner in the room with you seems like it would be a lot more valuable than just reading this book and trying to do it on your own. And again. I don't remember him ever bringing in the idea of hey, you should probably get a therapist to help you on this journey. It's all pretty much just read this book, or read this book with your prayer meeting or your Bible study group, and then just do what I'm telling you to do. What's the problem?

Dan: 17:10

Yeah, and even with therapists, as I may have mentioned on the podcast before I do like to watch Married at sight a lot of times these people are really strangers and a lot of times the therapists have them go through exercises and games for them to start some physical intimacy, because sometimes they just do not. Most of the time they don't. They barely even touch each other. Hugs they don't, kiss once in a while, one couple out of every two or three seasons. There's like a physical connection there and they've got no problems.

Dan: 17:38

But more often than not they've got problems. They give them these series of cards and they flip them over and they do these different activities to get them more comfortable, initiating physical touch, and sometimes it's tickle this person's foot with a feather or put the blindfold on and put something in their mouth to taste and just shows some trust there and it does some sort of physical intimacy. Even after they do those things I haven't seen one couple turn it around and all of a sudden start magically becoming more physically intimate with each other or affectionate with each other afterwards. So even with the help of therapists, even with the help of these games, it's a really tough thing to do when it's not something that comes naturally.

Charles: 18:14

Yeah, it's a really tough thing to do when it's not something that comes naturally, yeah, and one of the things that I know guys will run into when trying to turn around a lack of physical intimacy. And I don't mean just sex, just like the physical touch on this list, the hugs, the kisses, the holding hands, the putting your arm around. The longer you're in a relationship with someone, the more you can start looking at any physical touch, and it's just foreplay. I'm only doing this so that I can warm things up, to get things going in a way that'll lead to sex. And then one of the things that he suggests in the book and then I've heard from other therapists as well, is sometimes you have to take sex off the table for a little while.

Dan: 18:54

Yeah, and I think, like with everything else in this book, to really dumb it down and simplify it is it's not about you and getting what you need, which is might be the sex. It's what's going to make her feel good physically. When it comes to physical touch, that includes feeling relaxed, feeling like she trusts you, and the same thing with learning all these other love languages. It's all that stuff comes before the sex part, right?

Dan: 19:18

so if you're focusing, on her needs and the way to make her feel good, then the the next step down the road or a step down the road could be the sex at that point. But you have to do this work first, however. She needs it to be felt.

Charles: 19:31

That's the first step that has to happen and I've read very smart people who've written very good books that say the same thing, and the tension that you can run into with that is there are some people, often men, who feel the emotional connection with their partner through sex and then there are women who feel the sexual connection and it's like you're playing a game of chicken for who's going to go first, or chicken to the egg, right? Yeah, those are complicated situations to try to get through. That are more. There are some books out there that I've read that can be helpful. This isn't one of them.

Charles: 20:05

When it comes to that thing of I want her but she doesn't want me because she doesn't feel connected, but I feel connected when I have her. And yeah, like you said, chicken and the egg, it's tough to get to the bottom of that without help. But yeah, he does address that when you take care of filling the tank on your wife, girlfriend, partners love tank, she's more likely to feel sexual about you when those needs are being met than when they're not, so Coming to her with a proposition along the lines of well, listen, if you give me more sex, I'll do all the stuff your love language requires.

Charles: 20:44

That's probably not a deal you're going to be able to negotiate. Correct, because sexual attraction is not a choice we make. We don't decide I'm going to feel ramped up sexually for my partner. It's a thing that happens based on the circumstances that we're in. It's not something you can just decide. I'm going to wake up tomorrow and feel like I want to jump my partner's bones. It's about addressing the underlying issues in most cases, which is tough because, as men and as engineers, I want to focus on the problem that's right in front of me. Like we talk about caretaking, this chapter, like the others, is about reaching out to your partner in the way they need you to, not the way that feels good to you, because you might not like giving back rubs, but that might be the dialect in her love language that she needs. And to give your partner a back rub and not turn it into foreplay is probably tough for some guys.

Dan: 21:39

I think between what we're saying in the book here, I think it's setting the proper intentions and mindset. So it doesn't mean it's going to be easy. But if you go in with that mindset, with the outcome being just making her feel good at this point and you not looking to get anything out of this, and it's because you see that there's a relationship and this person is worth the investment in time, gather, think of some of the things that you did or the ways you connected back then and try to live those feelings and those emotions again, and that might help make things a little easier for you.

Charles: 22:09

Yeah and you're also going to have some awkward conversations about this to be able to say, okay, what were the top four or five ways that they wanted to be touched and enjoyed being touched and got the most out of Right.

Dan: 22:19

And that's the thing is, we don't see those types of conversations happening every day, so it's weird.

Charles: 22:25

No, those aren't written into the movies or the sitcoms, or even watching our friends have those conversations with their partners.

Dan: 22:30

Or you're never getting. Rarely would you see your parents doing that. So you wouldn't. That's even parents who are still together. You don't see that happening very often.

Dan: 22:37

So this is all new territory for us and it does feel like it takes the romance out of the connection or the charm out of the connection you have with that person. But for me I can see the value in that, because there've been times where I've been with somebody and certain parts of them or their body were more sensitive, or they may have had an operation on a certain part of their stomach or internally and that's really painful but everything else feels good. But until and unfortunately a lot of times I discovered what was good and what was bad in the middle of trying to be physically affectionate with that person and said, oh, don't touch me there. And now it's because it's painful. They weren't trying to be mean or whatever, but I was a little bit offended. I was just like, oh, what did I do wrong?

Dan: 23:19

And now it's a little bit more complicated and versus just getting it out there, hey, I don't really like to be touched here because I feel a little insecure. I got some roles here. Whatever it is or whatever that might be. The hairs on the back of my neck are super sensitive. I like it, but only for a couple of minutes. I think we need to get comfortable having those uncomfortable conversations and maybe setting it up and saying, hey, I know this is going to be a little bit weird, but the intention, my intention, is for us to connect more.

Charles: 23:50

Yes, and look if you're, I guarantee that the conversation, or initiating the conversation, will probably be easier than initiating the touch for the first time.

Charles: 24:02

So the good news is it does ramp up, start with the easiest thing, which is having the conversation, and then work your way up. As you get better at level one, then level two comes easier than level three and you don't start with the hardest thing first and then think that it's going to go well level three and you don't start with the hardest thing first and then think that it's going to go well, have you there's?

Dan: 24:19

so there's like hundreds of different games out these days in terms of questions that help build connections on different levels whether it's for family. Have you played with any of those card games or anything else like that?

Charles: 24:29

yeah, any of them. Yeah, like any of them. My ex bought one from esther perel. She's got one out and we played that a couple times and she doesn't speak in it, does she I? Hope. Oh, because of her strong I love.

Charles: 24:42

Her accent was killing me on the audiobook great material, but oh my god, it was so hard to listen to her. It was, yeah, she has, I think it's a belgian accent or something, and it's fairly strong. She did like a tour where she was doing some speaking engagements. Yeah, I feel like watching her while she's talking. It's always easier to understand someone with an accent while you're watching them speak, but when you're just listening to someone with an accent it can be pretty tough.

Charles: 25:06

But yeah, she had, I think, a card game that she sold. That was pretty good. I enjoyed that, and there's a lot of apps that you can. Most of them are the kind of app where you can download it for free and get a few questions for free, but then for the real version you have to pay for. But I've had a couple of those that were pretty good about the prompts that they would give you to ask each other questions and hear their answers. There's good resources out there for having. I'm sure there's probably ones that specifically get into talking about what physical touch your partner would be into.

Dan: 25:34

And to throw back to the last podcast about your intentions, right like, I've bought a bunch of those and showed them to my current girlfriend and haven't busted in a mountain, haven't used them. I even have a set of coasters that have these great questions on them and just haven't they. Just they're sitting on my, my coffee table. I gotta get on it yeah, I would definitely really good questions.

Charles: 25:57

Yeah, and for the games in particular, or the ones, the apps that you can get on your phone yeah, you got some long flights coming up. You might as well look at buying one. That's a great idea, saving it to your phone so you can play it. Thank you, I like that Flying and offline. One thing he mentions is the line between physical, just physical touch and sexual touching is up to your partner to define what she's comfortable with and what she's not.

Dan: 26:21

Yeah, I think the key term you put out there was a little bit more. You start slowly, right, you start with something really gentle, whatever, maybe it's just you put your hand on hers right. Like when you're in a public situation or whatever that, where you normally haven't done that in the past. Right, you start slow. So in that case, conversation would probably be the way to go and even if you don't want to have a conversation, you start slow, slow and if anything, remember like this is you don't be afraid of being rejected here.

Dan: 26:51

This is somebody that we're talking about in this situation as a partner. Right, this isn't a first date type of thing. Right, this is, this is your partner, and so, if anything, these should be taking as from her, as signs of affection, of love from you, even if she's not a physical touch.

Charles: 27:07

Primary love language but remember though the fact that she is your partner, that she probably knows you better than anybody else. When you do try something new and she shuts it down, it can hurt way more than if it was a first date situation.

Dan: 27:20

But then, like you always say, with this book is you got to dig deeper? Something else is going on yes, if she's going to shut down like that?

Charles: 27:27

yes, right if you're upset about something, if you're acting properly and and only trying to stretch yourself and and your relationship and her just a little bit further than you usually do, and she has a big reaction to that. And, yes, there's probably this book down, an underlying issue that you encourage her to discuss with her therapist assuming she has one, and she should, because we all pretty much should. Okay, so let's talk about the magic scenario here where your partner's love language is physical touch and their dialect is sexual intercourse. That's her primary dialect, sexual intercourse. Then it's on you to become the best lover that you can possibly be for her, which is probably going to involve you learning things that you don't already know, and you're going to learn those things through books, through, possibly videos, through conversations with her, through online tests that you can take together, where each partner takes a test separately from each other, and you go down the list of here's the stuff I never want to do, here's the stuff I'll try if they're into it, and here's the stuff I really like to do.

Charles: 28:39

I think it's called Spicer. Okay, that's one of them. There's a few different ones out. Mojo Upgrade, I think, is another one that has that same model where you both basically take this test and you answer the questions of what kind of stuff you're into, what kind of stuff you're willing to try, what kind of stuff is no, and then, yeah, by either sharing a code with each other or registering with your emails or whatever, it will then give you the list to say, okay, here are all the things that you're both super into, here are the things that you're both willing to try. It will just leave the things off the list that you are both a hard no on, or even if one of you is a hard no, it stays off the list.

Dan: 29:12

Yeah, I think that's great, and you could actually use something similar for these other love languages, perhaps, things that you, for example, acts of service, things that you would like to have done, or things that she would like to have done. You don't maybe make the list together. You do that apart, right, great. And then you exchange it. So, oh, you're thinking like an app. I was thinking a piece of paper. There's a list where it matches up Like we don't, we'd each be more yeah, absolutely and open with.

Dan: 29:36

We could make that work for each of the acts of service excuse me, each yeah, that seems like it would be something that yeah, just very easy just generating a battery of all the possible acts of service from love language.

Charles: 29:48

Yeah, I was gonna say all the service specifically yes, where it's like blowing out the gutters, making the bed, doing the laundry and you just run down, could be hundreds of them, yeah. And then you have each partner categorize what they're willing to do, what would mean a lot to them, what doesn't matter to them, and you just figure it out.

Dan: 30:05

What was nice was that I think it was Spice or whatever you could purchase a pack and it was a list of questions for your partner or for you to answer, your partner or for you to answer so you could have these purchased packs of different types of categories of words of affirmation, or so you don't have to come up with them on your own.

Charles: 30:24

What we'll have to do is see if anybody's done this yet, and if not, we'll do it ourselves. And then we'll just change the names enough to not get sued by Dr Chapman. That works, yeah. And then we've step three count the money Like languages yeah. And then we've step three count the money Like languages yeah, we'll come up with something.

Dan: 30:38

Yeah, I think that'd be fun. I would love to do that.

Charles: 30:40

So here's what else I'll say. If, if sexual, not really just intercourse, but if sexual touch is her dialect of her love language. Here's the other thing that I'll tell the fellas out there you should get comfortable if you're not already as soon as possible, with the use of toys with your partner. I've never heard of a guy who, if he needed to cut down a tree in his yard and somebody suggested, oh, you can borrow my chainsaw or you can rent one from Home Depot for $40. He was like man, screw that, I'm not. What kind of man would I be if I can't just get out there and karate chop the tree down? I'm not going to use something like that. Where in the bedroom there are dudes who look at toys as their competition, instead of their teammate or instead of their tool, there are electronic motors that can function at a frequency that your hands and other parts will never be able to, and so if your response is to be threatened or insecure about that, that I get where it's coming from, but I also get.

Charles: 31:40

That's something you need to let go of Dr Chapman is not going to tell you to go vibrate or shop in, but Charles and Dan will, yes, think of it the way you think of any other tool. It's fun to go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get something that makes something that you do more fun and faster and easier.

Dan: 31:58

I think the other thing to think about, too, is that you are the one using the tool. You are still involved.

Charles: 32:01

You don't have to be obviously she can use it on her own, and that's okay too absolutely.

Dan: 32:05

There's plenty of tools out there where you can help with that and you still are participating in the event yes, and I have complete.

Charles: 32:13

I have been with partners and who have had toys that they would use on their own and we would use together and Without an exception.

Charles: 32:24

All of them said I prefer to do this together than alone, and they would use it alone too. That's fine. Look, if you're in a relationship and you have some sort of social or religious background that says the only sexual enjoyment we get to have is together and so we're not allowed to do anything on our own, then I'm not really talking to you right now, because I don't understand that, and that's not where I'm coming from. Where I'm coming from is I'm going to assume that both sexually healthy people in a relationship even if both of you have physical touch as your love language and sexual touch as your dialect I'm going to assume that you're also engaging in meeting your needs independently too, and I feel like that's the way that adults handle themselves. If her being into sex and having good sex is the way that her love tank gets filled, then be open to what you can do to make that happen and what you can learn and what you can bring in to make that even better for her.

Dan: 33:23

And yeah, I think that's like you said and we've been leading up to this, is it? It can be an easy and fun way for you to meet her needs, because that's something a lot of guys we gravitate towards, right.

Charles: 33:38

Oh, absolutely.

Dan: 33:39

Consider yourself. I don't know if you want to say lucky, but it's, it would be. It's a nice thing to have Sure yeah.

Charles: 33:44

And then the last thing I want to say from this chapter oh, I do want to get into the phrase book Cause again, there's some weird stuff in there that I feel like we have to address. But he does say that physical touch will be needed most when there's some sort of a crisis or difficulty that you're experiencing, which, if somebody needs a hug, give them a hug. In the last chapter that was an act of service. Yeah, if your wife is upset about something, then hold her while she cries.

Charles: 34:08

Yeah, it feels like physical touch is actually physical touch. But the way he says that a crisis provides a unique opportunity for expressing love and it's vital that you seize that opportunity, that seems almost a little manipulative. The way he's saying that where, yeah, when your partner needs you the most, in whatever way they need you, that's when it's most important to meet their need. I agree with that.

Dan: 34:30

Word opportunity.

Charles: 34:33

It's cringy. Okay, make touching your wife a normal part of your routine. Yeah, I agree with that. And if you need to remind yourself on a daily basis and you use a smartphone, then by all means have a reminder, or an alarm goes off that says are you touching your wife enough today? Or your girlfriend or your partner or whatever, make a point of hugging and kissing your wife. When you say goodbye in the morning, come home in the evening before you go to bed at night Um, that's a good idea. Add those, sprinkle those rituals in. And when you say hello, goodbye, good night, it's probably the easiest time and the least weird time to add those in. So if you're not already doing it, then maybe pick one and start on that one and then, once you get comfortable with that, then do the others. Change your usual patterns and routines to encourage more physical contact. At one point he says to switch sides of the bed, which man's my side.

Dan: 35:19

No, that's a no-go.

Charles: 35:20

Yeah.

Dan: 35:20

He even says the awkwardness of the new arrangement is likely to lead to unexpected touching opportunities.

Charles: 35:25

It's also to lead to unexpected bags under your eyes. I would not.

Dan: 35:29

Someone kicking you in the back because she or he thought you was. You're supposed to be on the other side, right?

Charles: 35:34

Getting up out of the bed and walking into the wall because he thought you were on the other side. Yeah, I do not get that. He does say switching up your seating when you go out to eat. If you're normally sidelers, sit across from each other. If you normally sit across from each other. I don't like sitting across from each other and I even said that on dates where I've been like, look, I didn't ask you out to dinner so that I could sit across a table from you, so we're either sitting on the same side or we're sitting. Ideally, you sit at a table for four and you're on adjacent corners to each other, that's my favorite there's a whole another episode of curb your enthusiasm.

Dan: 36:06

Talk about the side sit they did seinfeld too. Yeah, sidelers on seinfeld is probably larry's idea, and and there are, I wouldn't say, almost hundreds of episodes where it is the exact same thing as seinfeld, but like a different twist. But it's a nice refresher twist on it.

Charles: 36:22

Yeah, you'd love it. I've got every episode downloaded. I just haven't gotten around to it yet You've got to do it, let's see.

Charles: 36:29

Set aside an evening for some touch experiments as you move from spot to spot, get her to give you a thumbs up, a thumbs down or a thumb sideways. I think that's a pretty good idea, interesting. I think that's something that can be very fun in a sexual context too. But just keep it separate, yeah. So do this once where it's all non-sexual touching and do that first, yes, and then do it again where it's sexual touching, and don't try to combine both of those into the same experience, I would say, because as a guy I would rush through the non-sexual stuff and not enjoy that nearly as much as the sexual stuff. Check out websites, dvds and books that teach various techniques of body massages. You can pretty much just go to YouTube or other places, depending on what level of touch you're looking to get into.

Charles: 37:13

And I would again say, plan on separating that out between non-sexual massage and sexual massage. And yes, there's plenty of information to find out there. Think back to those early dates and recall the thrill of physical touch. Next time you're alone, try to rekindle some of that original excitement. I feel like you could be a little bit more specific and direct with the advice of how to do that. Oh yeah, that was so nice back when we couldn't keep our hands off each other. We should rekindle that, okay, okay, how why right when?

Dan: 37:43

yeah, just yeah. And that's where you had to do a little digging.

Charles: 37:46

You'd like what led up to that exactly dr chapman's more of an ideas man? Dan, he doesn't. He's more of a forest guy, not a trees guy. Okay, being a trees man.

Dan: 37:53

What would you recommend? My thought is I didn't try to think of it. Was this a trip right?

Charles: 37:59

Was it? Yes? What did you guys do that?

Dan: 38:01

led up to that. That's good. Yeah, we had a hotel. We're away on vacation. Yeah, what was going on in your world? And what might be helpful is, if you are anal and have a calendar where you keep all the appointments and stuff like that, look back, if you can.

Charles: 38:14

Even if you don't have the appointments, you might have the pictures that will tell you the when and the where you're using iOS or Google, you can go in and search by a particular location or by a different month or whatever, and it'll show you pictures from that.

Dan: 38:28

That's probably a good place to start and then, yeah, that's probably better than even looking at your calendar.

Charles: 38:32

Next time she's sick, remember the healing power of touch, and here's what I'm going to tell you. Touch, and here's what I'm going to tell you, even if her love language is physical touch. Again, I think it's mine, but if I'm feeling sick, I do not want to be comforted by somebody else's touch. There's other things you could do for me when I'm feeling sick to make me feel better, but particularly if I'm having a fever or something like Ooh, do not put your hands on me and I feel gross from the runny nose and the seething and sweating, yeah, sure.

Charles: 39:00

And so run this by your partner before you decide I'm going to give her a temple massage or something like that when she's feeling sick. Don't just say, hey, I'm sorry you're not feeling good, is there anything I can do for you? Offer specifics like would you feel better if I rubbed your neck a little bit? Or if I rubbed over your eyes, or something like that. I rubbed your neck a little bit, or if I rubbed over your eyes, or something like that. Give them a specific thing to say yes or no to, instead of is there anything I can do for you? No, I'm fine, okay, and then we leave it there where you can be. Leaving some opportunities on the field. Now here's one.

Charles: 39:31

If you have kids, train them to show love for mom through physical touch. Here's where I think that gets a little sketch. I think it's a good idea to tell your kids that their mom really appreciates it when they hug or kiss them or whatever. We should not train our children to meet someone's need for physical touch when they don't want to or they feel uncomfortable. Because you know, know, when you're one of those parents that brings your kids to the family dinner or the family reunion or whatever, and you force your kids to hug some uncle they barely know and only see once or twice a year. The message you're teaching your kids is that even when you feel uncomfortable physically engaging with someone, I expect you to do it anyway. Do Do I have to connect the dots for how that can be very bad for your kids, where they get put in a social situation where someone is pressuring them to touch them in the way that they don't feel comfortable and they remember back to oh, when I don't feel comfortable touching someone.

Dan: 40:35

I'm made to feel guilty and I've got social pressure to do so.

Charles: 40:39

Yeah, so all I have to do is stay quiet and do what they want me to do anyway. Not good Now, if you want to inform your kids that their mother really appreciates hugs and things like that when you feel like doing it yes that she would appreciate it as a man listening to this podcast.

Charles: 40:54

If you don't feel like touching or engaging with your wife, don't do it. Just because she expects it and she number one she's going to pick up on the fact that you're doing it when you don't want to do it and if she's a good person, that will matter to her. Number two if you're struggling with reasons or issues why you're uncomfortable initiating physical touch with your wife, that's on you to work on and get solved. But I'm certainly not going to say just live with the discomfort and do it anyway, because that's what's expected of you. That's not what we don't want. Humans out there that are interacting with other humans physically in a way that they don't want to and they're just doing it to meet expectations. That makes the world a worse place, not a better place, for sure. So, yeah, don't pressure your kids to do that ever. Okay, for a designated period of time, communicate with your wife using only physical touch. Don't say anything as you shower her with physical attention.

Dan: 41:47

I don't really. I have a series of question marks next to this one.

Charles: 41:51

Do you give her a heads up first? That's what you're doing, or do you just?

Dan: 41:54

That's just weird, if you don't.

Charles: 41:56

Very weird if you don't.

Dan: 42:00

Yeah, I feel like you need to have a conversation to lay the groundwork of saying, hey, this is the intention of doing this. It's to shake things up a little bit, it's to try this out and see how this goes. Have fun with it, make a game out of it.

Charles: 42:13

Would it kill him to give one example on what this actually looks like? There's a lot left to interpretation here. During a designated period of time, communicate with your wife using only physical touch While you're paying the bills, while you're at your kid's baseball game, while you're about to have sex. I need a little bit more of a when is an appropriate time to try this? Yeah, and then what kind of communication can you try to sub out physical touch for? Instead of writing things down, instead of talking to her, instead of? Yeah, I feel like it's just too open that yeah, it's not really useful.

Charles: 42:47

Yeah, I feel like you just needed to fill page and then, when she's facing away from you in bed, write short messages on her back and see if she can tell what you're writing. But exactly I adore. You will get a much better reaction than time to back so stupid. Yeah, again it's straight out of his 80s sitcom writers seminar where's dinner?

Charles: 43:10

you fart in your sleep. It's yeah, this is so much of the stuff in this book. It's not cringy if you don't do these things. But then it's also cringy if you do these things because all the way that he tries to present them and I've literally lost count of the sports analogies. When we first started, I was keeping a record of every time he brought in a sports analogy to make this more accessible for the manly men that are reading this book. You're going to stop. I just I forgot that.

Dan: 43:36

I had a hard drive space yeah exactly my pen went dry.

Charles: 43:48

It stop. I just I forgot that I had a hard drive space. Yeah, exactly, my pen went dry. It's picking off marks of every sports analogy and then yeah, it's just yeah. I feel like it's the soft bigotry of low expectations when it comes to men. A lot of men's psychological literature like this.

Dan: 43:54

I see the now.

Charles: 43:55

Well, he's not going to be able to understand this unless we put this in sports terms, because abstract concepts like feelings and emotions and relationships, that's too hard for men. But if we talk about sports, then they'll be able to understand where we're coming from.

Dan: 44:08

In all fairness, we know this was written in 92.

Charles: 44:10

We were on CompuServe back then. It wasn't online at all.

Dan: 44:13

So I don't necessarily blame him or throw out all the other stuff, and I know you don't either.

Charles: 44:18

I do blame him or throw out all the other stuff, and I know you don't either. I do blame him, but I do not throw out all the other stuff. It's have your great-grandson re-edit this for you and put in the changes that need to be there.

Dan: 44:27

And this copyright is 2015,. So who knows the?

Charles: 44:30

guy who was in charge of iPhone pictures could have been the guy who's. Okay, let's update the. Some of these references and some of these sports analogies are a little heavy-handed. Maybe we could figure out some other way, but yeah, I don't know, we'll see. So I think that's it, for we've covered the individual languages at this point, I believe, haven't we, mm-hmm? So the next one is going to be what languages do you speak? And talking about learning to know yourself, your partner, and going through and, yeah, getting down to what it is that is your language and what isn't your language, and why you might assume that it's one thing or the other. And then after that, we'll do the section on troubleshooting, which I find.

Charles: 45:14

I found the troubleshooting chapter was probably the most valuable chapter in the book, because it does get into a little bit of the okay, what might the underlying issue here be that's causing you the difficulty that you're experiencing? I don't think it gets as deep as it ought to, but it gets deeper than any of these chapters. Just on, hey, here's the love language. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that, but uh, boy, you and I won't record that until you're back in america and end of june I was gonna say third, fourth week of june is when we'll record the next episode. If you're listening to this and world war iii has started or society has fallen apart, the reason we haven't mentioned it is because today is may 22nd, so that's where we're at. We'll talk to you guys again in a month and then we'll probably yeah, we'll end up releasing that episode fairly soon after it's recorded. Anyway, I hope you guys have enjoyed the individual chapters on love languages and we're going to spend a few more episodes tying it together with the troubleshooting and the anger and art of apologizing.

Charles: 46:15

Oh yeah, I got a lot to say about apologizing. I'm curious to see how apologizing is covered in this book, because I haven't even read this chapter the first time. I haven't gotten to the end of the book yet has changed much, because there's a book by Dr Harriet Lerner called why won't you apologize. That uh is very good at uh labeling and and setting you up for success with apologizing, and so I'll. I'll be curious to see if he agrees with that stuff or if he's a couple decades behind. What a good apology is, uh. So yeah, look forward to that. All right, dan is. So yeah, look forward to that All right, dan. Thanks very much, and I'll talk to you next month.

Dan: 47:00

All right.

Charles: 47:02

Sounds good. Bye, wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.