Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men

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• Mindfully Masculine Media LLC | Charles & Dan • Episode 109

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In this episode, we continue discussing "Self-Care for Men" by Garrett Munce. We'll discuss the effectiveness of acupuncture, and also talk about time management, and share strategies that can reduce stress and anxiety.

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Dan:

Hey Charles, good afternoon or evening, I should say Good evening, dan.

Charles:

We are recording seven o'clock at night on a Monday, which is crazy because I'm usually in bed by now. I am too, so how are you? What's new? What's new?

Dan:

Not a whole lot. I mean, went to the guys with highest party with you last weekend Friday night. Yeah, it was nice, yep, yep, and I got my, my red shirt on and I guess it's officially the red party, right For a holiday, so it's not really a holiday party. I guess it's a well the red star.

Charles:

Yeah, yeah, I like, I like all those guys. I like their events, I like how they put on. What I don't like is at their annual holiday party, everybody dresses in red for the holiday. Everybody brings an unwrapped toy to donate for the holiday. Mm, hmm. And then you show up and the place is decorated for the holidays and you just hear early 2000s dance music and nobody's dancing and not a single Christmas carol to be heard. It's odd. It feels strange to me too. Yeah, I'm the only person that thinks that like.

Dan:

No, you weren't. I've heard it from other people too.

Charles:

And there's so many good popular artists who have good Christmas songs out and you hear none of them at that party. And again, it'd be one thing if people were dancing. Right, nobody's playing like club dance music and people are dancing, then like, ok, I get it, nobody's dancing and it's still all dance music and no Christmas songs.

Dan:

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense because they do have other events throughout the year where there are DJs and they play, and it's it makes sense to play some dance music because there's a dance floor and people are dancing Right and so people get their fill. You know, with some of these other events where you know they can dance and have a great time, you know dancing around, but you're right, it really most people are just sitting around drinking a little bit, having conversations, and it'd be perfect to have Christmas music in the background in the background.

Dan:

Right, nobody's dancing.

Charles:

Yeah, so I yeah.

Dan:

I don't understand the logic behind that either?

Charles:

Yeah, and if they were playing Christmas music, is anybody going to write a letter after me like I had a good time at the party? At the Christmas party you guys throw, but I was a little off put by all the Christmas music you played in the background very unexpected right, Very shocking. So all right, I guess. I guess I'm going to be the dickhead who sends him a letter and says hey, love your event, love contributing, love showing up, yeah, but why do you have the only Christmas party I attend with no Christmas music?

Dan:

Yeah, so well, hey, listen, but we still go every year.

Charles:

Yes, and we'll continue to, even if no one responds to my. My message yeah, I don't know, maybe I'm the. I'm not the only person likes Christmas music, am I? No, you hear it? Everywhere If people didn't like it, right, yeah, and?

Dan:

all these popular artists. Why would they remake? You know, old course, classics, people love it, yeah, so, and you don't get to hear it all the time, and it's you know, they're catchy tunes, yeah.

Charles:

You're not alone with this. Okay, I'm going to try to make it happen for next year Sounds good. I mean the smart thing to do would be to get Kurt to complain about it, because yeah, he's got some Paul. Yeah, he's a bankroll of their whole charity. Basically, with exactly right.

Charles:

Exactly, exactly, yeah. The move would be like, kurt, you know, can you, yeah, yeah, pull some strings, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, other than that, it's good. I like sitting there, like talking with people, I like I treated myself to a very small glass of orange juice which was available as a mixer for the vodka. Okay, I didn't have any of that, but I did have a little bit of. I was like, oh, this is what orange juice tastes like. I haven't had this in months and months, and months.

Dan:

Was it all that it was cracked up to be?

Charles:

No, not so much, yeah. Now the only, the only sugary drink worth drinking is Mexican Coke and glass bottle.

Dan:

Oh, I did, on Sunday, go to for the first time in Winter Park downtown, on Park Avenue, they hire the I guess it was an individual that does this hires the Orlando Symphony Orchestra to play Christmas music and it is a huge event. I mean, people bring their full spread in terms of picnic table full of food and wine, and people are there for hours beforehand and hanging out afterwards. The weather was great, yeah, so that was. That was the first time, so it reminded me a lot of the spring. So the Orlando Philharmonic every year plays a concert in the Springs where they will bring in some sort of pop or really popular artists. Who does tribute to what? For one year it was sting in the police, another year was the Beatles, and so the Symphony Orchestra will play Beatles songs, the background, and then they'll have the actual performers, the, the, the artists, the personators, sing and do the actual person.

Dan:

No, no, no no.

Dan:

OK, they couldn't get the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, right, but still it's like right on the it's. It's behind Petty's Me Market there and it's on the water, so it's some really great acoustics. Gotcha Huge lawn area and again, people are there for hours beforehand and everybody's cool with it. Like you bring, you bring alcohol or food or and you're camping out in your pink picnicking and you get to hear this wonderful music and it kind of gives you a little bit of exposure to the Philharmonic and you know you might actually end up going to some of the some of the other concerts. So, speaking of which, I know you like Batman, they are doing the songs from 1989 Batman Interesting. So that was Michael Keaton, is that right?

Charles:

That was Michael Keaton. Yeah, they're doing that in 2024. At the Dr.

Dan:

Phillips Center. They're going to be doing.

Charles:

They're going to be doing that might be fun to any, elfin composed it and Prince had a song on the songs on. Oh, I didn't realize there were so many?

Dan:

Oh, was that when Nicholson was dancing around? It's like Joker.

Charles:

Exactly, that was Prince Right.

Dan:

Yes, oh my God, that was great.

Charles:

Yep, that, yeah, that, that that has some appeal to me. I wouldn't. Yeah, I'll look it up, we'll figure out, when that is yeah. There's another something else that was going to be at the Dr Phillips Center that I thought, oh, that might be, that might be fun to get back here. I can't, can't remember what it was. Um, I have not announced on the podcast that I am going to see Taylor Swift in concert. I'm going to see the Eris tour.

Charles:

Oh right, here in Orlando, no, no no, not in Orlando, not going to be able to see it quite that locally. Oh so I decided to go see it in Vienna, austria, wow. So I'm going to go on a little trip of okay, go on a little solo tour of Eastern Europe and visit Munich and Prague and Vienna and Budapest, pesh, pesh.

Dan:

That's how. That's how you're supposed to say it, how we say it Okay.

Charles:

People who go to Budapest say oh, I see Okay. Yeah, Um, yeah. So I've decided that, uh, you know, to make make Taylor's tour a small part of my European vacation. Excellent, and uh, budget wise it's the biggest part, but time wise, it will be among the smallest parts.

Charles:

But uh yeah, I'm looking forward to, uh, to experiencing some of those cities that I've never been to before. I've only been to Europe once and I went to Spain and Italy. Okay, this will be my first visit to England and Germany and the Czech Republic and Austria and Hungary Nice and then back home to Orlando, All right, Well, uh, that sounds fantastic.

Dan:

I can't wait to uh get the play by play.

Charles:

Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to. Uh. I'm going to be hostiling the whole time, I'm going to be taking planes and trains and uh.

Dan:

so no hotel rooms and no car, no rental cars, it's going to be all all like, and how do these hostels compare to the ones that you've been staying at in the United States? Are you, are you able to get a sense of them before you actually go out there?

Charles:

Looking at the pictures of the rooms. They look very similar, okay. Um, yeah, I've, I've only I only stayed at one hostel in my all my travels. That, uh was a little on the primitive side for my tastes and that was in San Juan, puerto Rico. Okay, but I, I would suspect that Caribbean hostels are probably a bit more laid back when it comes to amenities and you know, and and constantly remodeling and updating the rooms and stuff like that, because you know, it's just, it's like hey, I want to go to this tropical destination for not a bunch of money. So you know, you get what you get. But the European ones look pretty nice. I did. There were some that I, uh, I'm going to. The same, um, same company runs hostels in four of the five cities that I'm going to and they do not run a hostel in Prague. So I had to go outside of of the brand for Prague and uh they, uh, they have like a points program or what's the?

Dan:

uh, what's the? Uh the advantage of going with the same company.

Charles:

Uh, only that, uh, on the hostel worldcom website, uh, which is what I used to research, uh, they're all very highly rated, like yeah, like tens of thousands of very high reviews, so that's, that's usually my my go to, sort of like when I buy stuff on Amazon, it's like I want a lot of reviews and I want good reviews, and so, um, yeah, but then they did not have one in Prague, so I'm staying somewhere else, which was like my third choice, because in Europe they have age limits on who could stay at their hostels and I'm too old for some of them, which I don't think I've been too old for anything yet. That's a new experience for me. Okay, um, I mean to be fair, I haven't tried to, you know, join the military or anything. So, um, there's a lot of things I attempt to do where people are like you can't do that, you're too old, old man. But staying at certain hostels in Eastern Europe is on the list now.

Dan:

Wow, yeah, I had no idea they were so strict.

Charles:

Yeah, I guess they just uh, they don't want somebody having a massive coronary during their stay and harshing everybody's mellow.

Dan:

Yeah, that could. That could put a little bit of damper on the mood, bump the kids out a little bit.

Charles:

A little bit. Sure, I have a heart attack while I'm here, so yeah, but uh. So that that trip is really something that I'm looking forward to, um yeah, congratulations, thank you. It's a big uh, big deal. The week that I bought the ticket turned my car into the second most irresponsible decision I made that week. So after after going to Europe to see Taylor Swift.

Dan:

I don't think that was irresponsible decision. I think, uh, if you had paid an arm and a leg for that vehicle, it might have been a little bit irresponsible.

Charles:

Agreed I'm, I'm very um, the couple of hiccups that have developed with my 27 year old car have come out way under the amount of money that I thought it was going to take to fix them, so I'm still feeling very Important perspective keep in mind Very positive about the decision so far.

Dan:

Okay.

Charles:

I'm taking it to get the uh stereo installed tomorrow and uh, I'm excited about I was thinking today new stereo with new technology in an old car. That really sums up my vibe.

Dan:

There you go. Yeah, I think, I think that's accurate, all right.

Charles:

So, um, hey, I did some research for this week's episode. Oh, did you ask yeah, Don't get used to it. Oh boy, Um, I watched a video about acupuncture and the efficacy of acupuncture and uh here's what I found out.

Charles:

I found out that, uh, they do have a way of testing the effectiveness of acupuncture. Um, and it is pretty much what you uh suggested last week, which is they do it in a way that is consistent with ancient Chinese medicine and the western medicine and the western version of acupuncture, where they target certain specific spots in the body, and then the other two ways they do it is what this particular YouTube guy called sham acupuncture, where they just randomly stick the needles in wherever that was that was my thought, right.

Charles:

And the third control is just people who get on the waiting list to have it done, but they never actually call them and do it. And then they compare the results of the legit acupuncture, the sham acupuncture and the people that just stayed on the waiting list to say, hey, are you feeling better? And then. So what they found was for some very specific applications, legit acupuncture seems to help more than nothing and more than sham acupuncture. Interesting Neck pain, chronic pain, pain you experience after having a stroke. I think that was it Okay. But what they did find was lower back pain, which is what acupuncture is often sold as a treatment for Real versus sham, versus no treatment at all. There was no difference in outcomes. Okay, so Okay. I think he may have mentioned shoulder pain I think that was maybe the fourth one, okay. Shoulder chronic pain like fibromyalgia, and then pain you experience after a stroke.

Dan:

Were there any theories as to why it was not effective for lower back? But yet for another physical ailment right at the base of your neck, it seems to work.

Charles:

I. He did not offer a suggestion. Okay, I have an idea.

Dan:

Mm-hmm.

Charles:

But again, let me preface this by saying this is all intuitive I know everything because I know nothing. That's an Adam Crow line that I love, that he says he doesn't have a bunch of education to get in the way of his conclusions.

Dan:

It does seem to cloud the mind every once in a while.

Charles:

Yeah, yeah. So I would say that the causes of, in my own experience, my lower back pain, in pretty much every case has been the result of my emotional state, not because of a physical problem with my skeletal musculoskeletal system skeletal, muscular, I don't know. Yeah, so I think that if there's an underlying emotional or psychological issue that's leading to your chronic back pain which again, in my case and in the case of a friend of mine who I've had a lot of conversations with about this that is certainly true, that it's what's going on in my life. What am I stressed about? What am I angry about? Things like that. That's what causes my back to hurt, and so I think the neck pain might be a little bit more acute.

Charles:

Where, oh, one thing the guy did say was the way that acupuncture is supposed to work, is it basically disrupts and distracts you from the sensation of pain. He said, similar to the way that if you bang your elbow and you rub it, it feels better because you're being distracted by the sensation of rubbing yourself as opposed to just the sensation of pain. So you're adding another input to the mix that is, minimizing the pain in favor of the other sensation that you're experiencing.

Dan:

Same thing with bug bites, itches and stuff like that.

Charles:

Correct. Yeah, so that's what he said, and then he didn't really offer any comment on the idea of paths and meridians and things like this. He said that's what it's supposed to do, but again, that's an unfalsifiable claim. There's no way that you you can't get an MRI or a CAT scan and say, yes, there's the meridian, there's the chi. So there's just certain things that are untestable when they make metaphysical claims about the physical body.

Dan:

Yeah, I mean, I've heard recently that there's a lot more interest in studying the placebo effect in terms of our mind and what it perceives, and I feel like that might play a big part in this as well as if you really believe that this is going to help you. There's things that I'm convinced we don't know about in terms of the way our minds work and the power and the things that our minds can and cannot affect, and this could be one of them. In terms of that healing ability, you just need to believe in a certain way and you could be sending the right nutrients there to heal it. Or maybe you're taking slightly different actions subconsciously, so that you're allowing it to heal more. Whatever that might be, I don't really care so much about it. Just what is the result?

Charles:

so yeah, I've said before, listen, we have as humans. We evolved five senses to keep us alive as we moved from trees to the savannas. And so to assume that the development of those five senses tell us everything there is to know about existence, I think if anything's hubris, it's that right, yeah, right, we evolved what we have for a very specific reason, and we can use that to measure the physical world around us. But then to also say, and that's all there is, seems short-sighted to me.

Dan:

Yeah, I mean it was funny, because I always go back to the story about, or the story about history of. We thought at one point the molecule was the smallest object in the world because that was just the power of our Microsoft, our microscopes. Oh my God, this is what happens when we try to record late at night, right? So? And then once we got a more powerful microscope, we could see an atom, and then we could see so atomic particles and everything. It was like well, this is the smallest. And they wrote, like our science books in school I remember having one where the molecule was the smallest or the atom was the smallest, and then I think I got into high school, whatever they're like, no, there's subatomic particles. And I was just like this is the smallest and it's like well, yeah, so far it is right, correct.

Charles:

Yeah, based in and that's one of the things that I appreciate about people who are professional scientists they will caveat everything they tell you with based on what we know so far, based on what the evidence shows so far. And the people who claim to have a science background and also speak in absolutes, it's like okay, you're not what you're pretending to be right now, because, yeah, the highest status thing you can do as a professional scientist is prove yourself wrong. Prove what you thought a week ago. Hey, I've got definitive evidence that what I said to you guys at last year's conference is wrong. Here's the experiment I did to figure out that what I used to think is wrong, and you can repeat this experiment and see that I was wrong too. That's what a good scientist really gets off on, not saying I've got this figured out.

Dan:

Right. I mean we talk about that. It's just the equivalent of being a nice guy, right, where you're pretending to be something that you're not, or pretending you've got the answer when you don't, and I think the strongest argument is to really be vulnerable. Go ahead, don't have it all figured out. This is what I think, but this is this is right. Like you said, I could be wrong.

Charles:

Right, yeah, and that's that's how you tell somebody who is a a scientist from somebody who likes talking about science. You know what I mean. I'm sure I've done it before too. I've spoken with, I know I've spoken with authority on on subjects that I was not an authority in, and probably tonight on this on this recording, I don't know, but it's, it's very easy to do when you when you feel like you know some stuff about some stuff.

Charles:

It's, it's a trap that's that's very easy to fall into. All right, let's talk more. Here's what your first appointment. Oh, I was going to ask you. You're going to New Jersey tomorrow. I am. You're there till Saturday. I am Think you can get some acupuncture while you're up there.

Dan:

Maybe I might be able to, because my dad went for his leg and but yeah, he had one treatment. I'm not going to ask him exactly what, what he got done, whatever, but I might be able to get in with that that same person.

Charles:

I found. I found some group ponds that were pretty inexpensive in the Orlando area with what seemed to be respectable reviews. Yeah, and not very much money. I think I'm $69. I saw one special that included your consultation and two sessions of treatment.

Dan:

So the only the only downside is I don't want to start it up there. If I want to go back for a couple of treatments, I can't go to the same practitioner, so I may, I may go to one. I did find one around the corner from here though. Okay, but they do both acupuncture and as well as physical therapy as well. So I'm going yeah, I'm going, because my arms fall asleep when, when I raise them too high for too long and also, like on cardio machines, like ellipticals, I start to like lose circulation there. So I want to find out what's actually causing that and what, if there's something that they could do, poke me somewhere and fix it.

Charles:

If they poke you somewhere and it doesn't fix it, are you going to go to a real doctor? No offense.

Dan:

Yeah, well, I, I'm, yeah, absolutely. We'll tell my real doctor about it as well, in case they've got some some suggestions. But I'm thinking it's really a physical therapy thing that needs to be done in terms of if they need to like, look at something where you know the way the muscles are, maybe it's it's tight on, certain areas needs to be, you know, manipulated or moved in some way. So that's why I'm going to this. It's called recovery and it's right here in Lake Mary and they specialize in the Chinese medicine as well as physical therapy. So it's kind of like a best of both worlds.

Charles:

Have you had a massage therapist work on it at all? Yet I have.

Dan:

I have, and it's given me some temporary relief, but not so for that night. My arms won't fall asleep. Within the next day, same thing happens again. So there's something. Maybe I need to find an exercise that will stretch it out the right way, or stop doing an exercise, what I was doing.

Charles:

I was. I came over here tonight, I drove over from my place in New Smyrna with the top down because the weather is nice, yeah, and because I have a convertible Maybe I've mentioned that and I got to your place and I was like, ok, I'm going to put the windows up, going to put the top up, and because I have a manual top, the best way to close the top is to get out of the car, close the top, latch both sides and then leave. Yeah, what's the more convenient way to do? It is to reach back like this, grab the top and muscle it up this way. Ok, and every time I do it I'm like I am going to blow out my rotator cuff doing this I have. So I either need to do more shoulder exercises to get stronger More.

Dan:

I need to stop doing it this way, because I would stop doing it that way, because you don't even know if that's the right way to be moving your shoulder Correct yeah.

Charles:

The impingement is what I worry about yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, I should have you go out there and do it and and based on how it feels, you can be like, yeah, you shouldn't be doing this, ok. Or yeah, you could totally do this. You just need stronger shoulders.

Dan:

I'm telling you right now, if you're already like questioning it, you shouldn't be doing it.

Charles:

I feel like I was stronger if I had if I had more of this and more of this and more of more of this, it might not be a problem.

Dan:

I mean, how much time are you really saving by doing that?

Charles:

It is way more convenient than because I because when I get out of the car, because I have to then get back in the car put the key back in the ignition to put the windows. Oh, I see when, if I do this, first lock it down, then I can put the windows up and then get out of the car.

Dan:

Is this purely the weight of the the roof or is it? Yes, I think so. It's not like it's a little bit rusty and you put a little bit of a 40 on?

Charles:

I don't think so. It would make it move a little bit easier?

Dan:

I don't think so. Ok, although I mean it's an older vehicle Maybe, maybe the wheels a little.

Charles:

The last Z three I had. I think I closed that way to and I don't think I was as strong when I had that one. So maybe.

Dan:

Yeah, I mean, I mean WD4, I got right there in a closet you can help yourself to.

Charles:

Well, wd 40 is not the best lubricant, it's just a water displacer, all right, well, but I do have spray on lubricant OK, that I got for the break job that I didn't end up doing, so it's in the car right now. I could use it. There you go, all right. So your first appointment will start with a consultation, where I imagine you'll tell the practitioner what's bothering you and they'll say we can totally take care of that for you, Right?

Dan:

I doubt they'll say, oh you got to go down the street yeah.

Charles:

You provide will do some evaluating. They may also do some things you're not used to like look at the color of your face, inspect your feet and even use tools like crystals or a pendulum, to quote, access your energy flow, Mm hmm. Now, it doesn't say this in the book, but that's the point. That's the point where you need to be careful that your eyes don't roll right out of your head, because that is what that's a real concern for me. Many acupuncture points are far away from the point of physical pain. For instance, painting your elbow might mean putting some needles in your feet.

Charles:

You're not expected to understand this complicated system on the first visit, so sit back and go with the flow. So if you have the thought of, hey, wait a second, this seems like nonsense, you shouldn't listen to that and and shut things down Now. Don't. Don't use that logic in any other part of your life, just when it comes to non-western medicine. Apparently OK. So then after, after you have the, somebody swings a crystal over your head. Then they're going to start putting needles in your skin. You'll be asked to then relax for 20 minutes while the needles poke out of you and do do whatever it is that they do, which again from the guy that I watched on YouTube what they do is distract you from the pain that you're there to fix. Now, I don't currently have pain, so when I go and they ask me why are you here, I'm going to be like I'm trying this out so that I will feel morally justified and telling my podcast listeners that it's horseshit.

Dan:

I'm sure you will say it exactly that way.

Charles:

Yeah, I will. I will, I will be nice because I'm a nice person, I mean I think you will get some at least some stress benefits from it.

Dan:

Just lying there quiet for 20 minutes, Right Doing that anywhere, I think is going to be beneficial, you know.

Charles:

I don't know if I mentioned this, but a couple. I guess a week ago, two weeks ago, I went and got a chair massage at the mall and man that was awesome.

Charles:

I told you I think I like it better than a regular massage because I didn't have to take my clothes off and you know, not that I have a problem showing off this beautiful physique but just the time that it takes to get undressed and then get dressed and all that, and I didn't get all oiled up, it was just I sat in a chair, stuck my face in the hole through the thing, and the guy just worked on me for 20 minutes. Yeah, it was pretty inexpensive and felt amazing. So I think I'm going to make that a normal function of my own self care routine, because it felt great.

Dan:

I do it as soon as I have booked a, or not as soon as, but whenever I booked a flight. If they have it in the airport available, I will go over to. I'll leave a little bit early so I can get there a little bit earlier. Okay, and I get the chair massage at the airport. Are you able to schedule an advance or?

Charles:

do you have to just kind of show off? No, you kind of have to show up.

Dan:

But usually it's a little bit on the higher side in terms of price, so it's usually not overly booked, so there's usually some flexibility. You can get in if you're there and you've got like an hour before your flight. When you get there, you can usually yeah, by the time you get to I mean once you're at like through security or anything else if you've got an hour before your flight, you can probably find something for 20 minutes.

Charles:

Okay, you could probably get on a plane and any idea what's. 20 minutes usually set you back for. Usually it's about.

Dan:

So 20 minutes is like $45 or something like that. Okay.

Charles:

I did 20 minutes at the mall for $28.

Dan:

Yeah, it's, it comes out to about $2 a minute.

Charles:

I'm sure it's about the same ratio of market that you would pay on a bottle of aqua.

Dan:

Exactly, asani, exactly, but they're, you know every, everyone I've gotten in the airport, they've been fantastic and it really just kind of chills me out and, yeah, it sets the tone for a long flight.

Charles:

Okay, so here's some other things that you could get from somebody who does acupuncture Acu pressure, which is similar but I don't think they stick needles in you. It's just a little, a little pointy thing that they poke your skin with. Reiki is a form of energy manipulation where they don't even have to touch you, they just put their hands over your body Again remember who's to say it doesn't work right.

Dan:

We need to keep an open mind of that it might. It might actually do something.

Charles:

Right. And, as I said last week, if it does anything, why do I even have to go to their office to do it? Why can't they just do it while I'm staying at home? Yeah, uh, if it works remotely.

Dan:

it works remotely. That's a great question. I mean, I wonder maybe when you go for your acupuncture appointment that's a question If they ask them, if they do Reiki and just get some more information about it. Can we?

Charles:

do this over Zoom? That'll be my question. Right, like, as long as the check clears, we can do. However, you want Reflexology based on the idea that different pressure points in your hands and feet are connected to internal organs? Okay, and then finally, cupping yeah, we all became familiar with from the Olympics a few years ago, when we saw people with all the marks on their body. And you've had that done.

Dan:

I've had that done. I've done the acupressure as well, or, excuse me, the reflexology, but again, it was more about just relaxing and relaxing my feet in them of themselves, so it was like a foot massage. Yeah, the cupping I've had done and I'll be honest with you, I felt like it really didn't make that much of a difference and it was pretty painful. Oh, the cupping was painful. Yeah, I've not heard that before. Yeah, because when you pull that cuppa, I mean those are bruises. So those marks, those are bruises. So, yeah, when they pull that, they're just like hickeys. Yeah, but they're pretty big and they're all over your back and yeah, when you pull that off, it's yeah, so that I didn't know they pulled it off.

Charles:

I thought they put something underneath it to break the seal and then just removed it. They actually like pull it off, that's the person who did it for me.

Dan:

For me, that's the way they did it. Yeah, interesting.

Charles:

Yeah, so it was. I mean, it was like it wasn't.

Dan:

I mean, it wasn't, like you know, a tear jerker by any means, but it was. It wasn't a relaxing swedish massage by any means, okay, but it was probably a little bit more painful than a deep tissue for me, wow.

Charles:

Yeah, interesting. Okay, I don't see myself trying that one, so I'm probably going to.

Dan:

I mean I could see the value in doing it if you're trying to heal a certain area, because then you're bringing the, you know you're putting all the nutrients into that area by sucking on that Blood. The blood is coming there and then you know your lymph system is pulling the toxins away. So I think if you're going for a specific injury, it might be beneficial.

Charles:

Interesting, I mean intuitively. It seems like it would just bring the blood from the bottom of your skin to the top of your skin, like how does it affect what's going on under your skin?

Dan:

Yeah, well, I think it's to the. So I think you're, you're, you're bringing all of that blood into the area, right? So, yeah, it shows in the top of the skin, but it needs to kind of travel, you know, in that area with the muscle and everything else, right?

Charles:

I might have to watch. I think what I should have done on the acupuncture and cupping now too, is watch videos of a guy who's like cupping changed my life, fixed every problem that I have, right. And then another guy who's like cupping is nonsense, yeah and see. Watch those two videos, mm-hmm, see what, how I feel after those. Yeah, rather than just watching one guy who's kind of playing it down the middle, or maybe all three videos, I don't know. Let's talk about time management. Anything else you want to say about acupuncture or Chinese medicine?

Dan:

The only thing I would say is you know.

Dan:

Yeah, I mean the thing is these procedures aren't ridiculously expensive. So I feel like if you are struggling to get relief and it's getting in your way on a daily basis, give them a shot. These, I mean these are some ideas you know. Clearly they're pretty popular. There's whole schools and you know that teach this stuff and their certifications, so it's providing enough value for enough people to justify having schools and continuing to these. These are fairly old methodologies, so I would say, give it a shot and try it for yourself and you know, and see what some might work for you and some might not.

Charles:

Yeah, I would. I would say that one of the recommendations that I got from the video that I watched that guy's take on it was Don't do more than four or five 20 minute sessions, because I guess it's easy for people to be kind of tricked into the idea of this is just what you do now. This is. You know, oh, you have to do this all the time. Okay, so we'll then run and just try, that's a different level.

Charles:

Try not to get into anything to the point where people are telling you you have to do this for your whole life. Now this is. You know you have to do the maintenance on this, right? You know, if, if you want to try this, try it, but don't. Don't let somebody talk you into the idea that for life to be livable, you have to do, and you know. Don't let them.

Dan:

Don't let a massage therapist sell you on the idea that you have to come back every week or I remember I went to a chiropractor years ago but and I remember them saying something like you need to keep coming back in order to do this. But you know they were getting insurance money for this and so like this. So it was like, yeah, I'm like I don't want to have to keep, like is this going to work or not? Like why do I need to keep coming back? What are you actually doing then? Then I guess it's temporary thing and I didn't end up going through with it because of that.

Charles:

Yeah, I don't. I don't know how to tell people to manage chronic pain conditions, but I do know to tell people. When somebody sells you something and says you have to buy this forever, then that's usually there's a pretty heavy financial interest in it for them If you listen to them. Yeah, so definitely get a second opinion from somebody who doesn't tell you have to do it forever. Okay, let's talk about time management. Um, this is a method of self care that is important and we you and I have talked about that and we even posted on our on our Instagram, how, um, scheduling out your time is a way that you can lower the stress in your life, for sure.

Charles:

And, uh, I've noticed that as well, and, and many I mean I think most men would would say that the biggest source of stress and anxiety in their life is going to be managing their work time or or their family time, and time management is a tool to fix both of those problems.

Dan:

Yeah.

Charles:

Um, I mean, obviously, you know, unexpected things happen, but that's no reason to conclude that no plan is better than a plan, yep. So, even you know, don't set yourself up with a standard of, okay, I timed out my week and I'm going to be, this is exactly what I'm going to do, and then if one thing disrupts it, well, plans out the window. I'd be better off not having a plan, which, you know, some of us have a tendency to do that sort of thing.

Dan:

Mm, hmm.

Charles:

With our time management and our eating and our exercise and our uh, our to-do list around the house and everything it's like. Okay, well, I had a plan and the plan broke apart. So now, silly me for trying to have a plan at all.

Dan:

Yeah, what? What helps me with that is making sure I take the time to review what I did do during the day, and a lot of times, yeah, it's not exact, most of the time it's not exactly what I had planned and I've fallen short, but I still at least saw the other things that I did do Right and that's enough motivation for me to go okay. I feel good. At least I got that stuff done to actually go and plan for the next day. Yeah, and when I don't, when I don't do that, I end up breaking the cycle and then I don't end up planning the next day. So that review piece is pretty, pretty important.

Charles:

Yeah, really, your to-do list only feels insurmountable when it's abstract, like no matter how many things you have on the list once you write it down, it doesn't feel as bad as it feels when it's just bouncing around in your head and you're worried about forgetting stuff and you're worried about not having enough time. Um, yeah, and in my experience at least, putting the list down on paper or on whatever app you're using is definitely infinitely better than just the feeling of I feel like I've got too much stuff to do and not enough time.

Dan:

Yeah, by putting it down on the paper, it's out of your head. And if it's in your head, you're multitasking all day long. Think about that because you're worried about that thing that you haven't done yet. It's still spinning in the back of your head and you're trying to do other stuff at the same time, so you're not going to be as effective doing the other stuff because this is still spinning around in the back of your head. You put it down on paper. You know it's somewhere. You can refer to it if you ever feel a little that anxiety oh what is that going to be. But it's there and then you can go, let it go and then focus back on what you were doing.

Charles:

Yeah, because that feeling of I've got an uncertain amount of stuff to get done that I don't think I have enough time to get done, so stuff's going to get dropped and I'm not going to get the important things done, will cause you to make other bad decisions, like neglecting your sleep, like neglecting your relationships, like neglecting your kids, like neglecting your physical health, I mean. So, yeah, there's just this very abstract concept of, oh no, I have too much to do and not enough time to do it. We'll snowball into a bunch of other things that make your life worse. And so, yeah, definitely adopt some sort of a plan for listing things out, and we're going to give you, through this book, just a few things real quick, and we'll expand on them as we do. Number one make a to do list the day before. Because, yeah, waking up and and making the list first thing can start your day off in a stressful way, where, if you make the list the day before and you're like, ok, I made the list, now I'm going to go to sleep and then when I wake up, I can get started on it Exactly. Yeah, I recommend that for sure.

Charles:

Use a calendar. I don't understand people who don't use a calendar, like as soon as you know. And I've had friends when I mentioned something to them, like hey, I'm going to be, I'm going to be doing some comedy, you should come out. And their first answer is, yeah, remind me, remind me a few days before. I'm like what? Like right, why don't you just put it on your calendar now? And they're like what calendar? And it's like why? Why do you hate yourself so much that you're living without a calendar?

Dan:

I don't understand it either. I just I live and die by that thing. I have multiple calendars, that yeah.

Charles:

Yeah, I pretty much just have my personal Google calendar is what I put everything on and I use reminders and I don't just accept the default of what is it? One hour and 12 hours? It's like no, based on what it is and how long I need to know about it in advance. I tweak the reminders, I tweak the colors, I do all that stuff, yeah, and I just can't imagine not doing that and then using appointment requests when I'm planning something that somebody else is responsible for showing up for. Yeah, it's. If that's not a habit that you already have, I would recommend it, and certainly, if you want to do it old school with a pen and paper, then do that.

Dan:

But I mean the free apps that are available to calendar out your life are just and have those reminders automatically pop up when you need them to. That's priceless.

Charles:

Yeah, because who doesn't have a phone, a watch or both? Yeah, you know, phone, watch, computer. I mean, we've all got all this technology and there's no reason that balls need to get dropped when it comes to scheduled events. Make things habits For smaller things that you want to do every day, like taking vitamins or creating a to-do list. You have to do them consistently. Some studies, dan, say that forming a habit takes an average of two months of consistent activity. What do you know about that?

Dan:

Yeah, those studies are wrong. Well, so here's the thing is, though, it depends on that habit, right? So you may not enjoy that habit, so it's going to take you two months, right? And then is it really going to stay to be a habit? I mean, we all talked about with the tiny habits. It's how good you feel about the thing that you're doing is how quickly it's going to form a habit, right.

Dan:

How much you enjoy it, right. So it's all tied to emotions and that's been shown in a number of different studies. Yeah, that old certain. Yeah, I mean, if you're running 10 miles every day for 20 days, on the 21st day you don't run, you're not going to be like, oh, I don't want to go run another 10 miles, like no if you're not enjoying it, you're not going to do it right, it doesn't matter what you do for it.

Charles:

Yeah, and I think the example that I shared when we were covering the Tiny Habits book was I bought myself a new iMac and over the weekend I went from being a Windows user to a Windows user and a Mac user. Yeah, and I got fairly proficient at it because I was obsessed with it and I was having a blast, yeah, and so I developed all those habits for required to be a normal Mac user over less than 48 hours.

Dan:

And that's what I mean. That's one of the reasons why Apple has been so successful with bringing people over to their products because they make it easy and enjoyable, Right, absolutely.

Charles:

All right, limit multitasking. Now I have heard it said by some pretty smart people that there really is no such thing as multitasking. Right, correct, You're not really doing two things at once. When you say you're a good multitasker, what you're really saying is I think I'm good at switching back and forth between things very quickly and easily, which the data on that says you're not as good as you think. You are Right, yeah, and before you, when you switch from one task to another task, the time that it takes you to get back into that task at the level you were before you switched is like 15 minutes.

Dan:

That's what I've heard as well.

Charles:

Yeah, it takes you a while to get.

Dan:

What a waste of time thinking about that Right yeah.

Charles:

So, yeah, try, I would recommend try to take less pride in your multitasking ability and you'll rely on it less, and the less you rely on it, the more time you can spend doing deep work on something until until your time on that thing is done, yep, and then move on to the other thing, and there's a lot of methods for that, I think. Yeah, he calls it time blocking and there's different ways to do time blocking. But, like, the one that I played with a little bit was the Pomodoro method, which is where you have the little timer that looks like a tomato, okay, and you set up a 20 minute period of working on things for that amount of time and just going deep and working hard on that thing and not letting yourself get distracted and not switching to other things until that block of time is up, and then you either take a break or switch to the next thing.

Dan:

Well, charles, that's a interesting point.

Dan:

You make a new product that I am experimenting with from the makers of the five minute journal. They make a productivity planner cards, right, so they leverage that focus. So what they do is they tell you write out your most important task for the day and then a couple of secondary tasks, and what you do is you estimate how many 30 minute blocks of time it's going to take for you to do this. The idea is you set a timer for 30 minutes, you work only on that task and then you take a five to 15 minute break so it's similar to a Pomodoro and then you basically write, you fill in the circles of how many 30 minute blocks it takes you and then you write in and it's up to five here and you really do the top priority first and then you work on all of the lower priority stuff during the day. Afterwards you then look at it at the end of the. There's a nice little stand here that it comes with, right, so you can always have that right next to your, next to your computer here.

Dan:

Very cute and I really like it. It really keeps you focused on stuff, the things that are most important, anything you don't finish, at the end of the day you write on the card for the next day.

Charles:

Okay, and so do you for your top priority. Do you work on it nonstop, or do you work on it for 30 minutes, take a break and then switch to something else and then come back to it? Or does it depend?

Dan:

Usually I am trying to do this exclusively until it's done, okay, gotcha Okay.

Dan:

But it again, it depends, it's got to be flexible, right, so if something were to come up, if a customer were to call me and go, hey, you know, something's down, I need to fix, I need to get this fixed, then, yeah, I'm going to put a pause on that, because it now is no longer the top priority, but by having this in your face, next to where I'm working, it's really helpful. There's a cute little quote, like a motivational quote, on the top, and then on the back you can take notes and start your day with what you're grateful for as well. So it's a nice little system.

Dan:

It's better than my sticky notes actually that I've been using too.

Charles:

How long is one pack supposed to last? How many days? Do you know how?

Dan:

many is in there? Great question. There's quite a few in here, not sure, but I feel like there's probably maybe three months.

Charles:

Yeah, I would think that they would do like 90 days or 100 or something like that.

Dan:

Yeah.

Charles:

It looks like about that size yeah.

Dan:

And I mean you could certainly do this on a note card without having to pay for it. It wasn't crazy expensive, but it's all formatted and it's a little bit larger, so it's a little bit easier to read. So, yeah, I like it.

Charles:

Yeah, and that's for pretty much any tip or hacker methodology. There's almost always an option where you go to the library and you read the book about it and then you use index cards to do it for free. You don't have to spend money to change your life. You can try out some of these things, like we talked about the meditation apps in the last episode. Right, yeah, a lot of them. You can either start for free or with waking up. You can just use it for free forever. You just have to tell them you can't afford it and they'll give it to you. So, yeah, there's always ways to try little experiments like this and see, okay, is my life better or worse since I tried this?

Dan:

If you're worth the 15 bucks or the $20 to get the preformatted stuff versus you having to hand write it out.

Charles:

Yeah, definitely, because at some point in your career I mean, yeah, when you're in college and you're poor and you have a bunch of time and no money then doing stuff like that yourself might make sense. But then you get older and your time gets more valuable and then it becomes, you know, more sense to pay for things than it does to do them yourself. So, yeah, everybody needs to make that decision. So next thing take regular short breaks. Constructive breaks should be around 15 minutes to allow you time to get up from your desk. Walk around a bit, maybe drink a glass of water. You want to be refreshed and ready to start again when you sit down, yeah. So, yeah, try not to make your breaks too fast and, you know, don't make them just for, oh, I gotta get up and go to the restroom and then you know that's not a break yeah, also, you know, staring at your phone for 15 minutes and then going back to a computer screen is not the way to go.

Dan:

For sure, you want to get some physical movement in at a minimum. Walk around the office a little bit, or outside if you can yeah.

Charles:

The other thing is, like we said before allow for flexibility. Realize that just because you can't hold the plan exactly as you develop it doesn't mean the plan is not worth having to be ready for. This is the plan for the day and I expect some things will will go that way and some things will not. Like you know anybody who is a consultant for their job or they bill per hour. I mean, I don't know any of the smart ones who've been in the field for any length of time who decide okay, well, it's an eight-hour work day, so I will plan to bill for eight hours of consulting time. It's like that's not how it works, right, because you know things come up and there's time that you have to spend switching tasks and you run your own business. There's certainly overhead of billing and invoicing and planning and scheduling and all that kind of stuff. So just know that you're not going to be able to make hundred percent productive days, because things happen, yeah, and things need to happen.

Charles:

Learn to say no. One of the one of the most important things I learned from a colleague of mine when I was working in Atlanta was when his boss would assign him a task and he would work on that task and then his boss would come to him and say hey, jeff, I need you to do this. His first answer was okay, what thing that you previously assigned me do you want me to not do, so that I can do this instead? And that was that priceless yes, absolutely because that really made me.

Dan:

You know, stops people in their tracks from. I mean, we've all had bosses at some point, do that? Sure, piling stuff on, go well, and I, unfortunately, when that was in that position, I didn't have the where with all to think in those terms like yes something's got to give same same.

Charles:

Yeah, I didn't either, and until I heard him do it, I yeah, because I mean listen, great way of framing it to and.

Dan:

I'm not very objective. It's very. It's not offensive, it's not like yeah, yeah.

Charles:

I'm, I am not, mr you know, I'm against management or screw management or anything, or I don't want to.

Dan:

I'm lazy.

Charles:

I don't do more work, then I'm getting paid for right yeah, but the idea like managers typically have more responsibility than you and make more money than you because they should have the skill set when their employee says okay, my plate's already full, so I'll do the thing you're asking me to do, but, as my boss, you need to tell me what's okay for me to not do, so that I can do this instead. And if a boss is at it, if a manager's attitude is, how dare you ask me that?

Dan:

then I mean that's I've had bosses where they be like what do you mean? You didn't finish that yet, kind of like you should. You should have finished this already and be ready for this next thing.

Charles:

So I've had that before too, which also doesn't make I mean no, so they're the way they want their company to run or their department to run is. Oh yeah, I finished the thing you gave me a while ago, so I've just been sitting here waiting for you to give me something to do. Yeah, right, right, yeah. You know you can look around an office or or a department pretty quick and see, okay, our guys just sitting around waiting for somebody to tell them what to do, or they in the middle of the thing that I already told them what to do a lot of times it and its tasks that the manager would have no idea how to do and and basically just making assumptions, you know that it should have been done in this period of time, but no idea how the sausage is made, right exactly and yeah, I yeah, and that's a very easy situation to say no, I'm not done yet.

Charles:

Yeah, yeah, how should I have done it differently to finish faster, oh?

Dan:

see these are. These are questions that, when I was in that position, I wish I had those like, because I would love to have been been able to spit the back at him, because I liked him as a person, but as a boss he sucked yeah, yeah, I've had some really good bosses and some really not great bosses, and as soon as I started learning those questions of you know, okay, if I'm not living up to your expectations, tell me how I should have done this differently.

Charles:

Yeah, and if they don't have an answer for you, then it needs to be either implied or flat-out said okay, then get off my back like it's your job to.

Charles:

It's not your job to just be disappointed with me your job just cracking the whip, right, yeah, it's your job to tell me what and how I should be doing better, right, and so if you don't have that for me, then I need to get back to work because I still have this list of things that you told me to do.

Charles:

So, yeah, I in you know, again, I, ideally that makes them a better boss and makes you a better, a better worker. And again, if you're in an environment where your boss isn't okay with hearing, no, I, I don't have, I don't have time to do this new thing without dropping something else, they they should be willing and able to work with you on that to help you get through that mm-hmm, that conflict. Yeah, and again, I don't want to, you know, stay on my high horse and say if your boss is like that, quit and go find a new boss, but quit and start your own company. That's what I did. No, listen, I know life's not simple like that, but you know the just just getting being beaten up by middle management for 25 years, I mean you are talking about self-care here.

Dan:

You're prioritizing yourself in terms of your you know your, your state of mind, your mental, you know health. When it comes to something you're doing more than anything else other than sleeping, which is probably working right. Yeah. So it's kind of important that you, you know you kind of stand up for yourself.

Charles:

Yeah, and you have to say I don't have the bandwidth to do this new thing in addition to all the old things. How do you know you think get resentful. How do you handle it? Yeah right, just you know. Approach it with curiosity, approach it with openness. You don't, you don't need to be a smartass about it, but just say okay, you're. I mean, if you do have the bandwidth to do it and they bring you something new, then fine, just do it. If you don't, though and you know that you don't because you've been doing the job long enough- so many of us fail, felt obligated.

Dan:

You know, right in that at the time, like you don't say no, doesn't matter what it is. I mean, I know myself, and more than more people than not, feel that way when you're in Lucky to have a job, right. So I'm just gonna say yes to everything. I don't want to risk that and again, that's, it's kind of like, you know, being a nice guy where you're doing things. You don't want to do and you're pretending to be something you're not yeah, it doesn't only apply to your romantic relationship.

Charles:

Yeah, it can certainly apply to your, to your work as well. And Listen, I I believe that what a good boss values the most is an employee who Accomplishes what they say that they're going to accomplish, not the employee who agrees to everything, gets half of it done.

Dan:

I mean as a partner could like if you are, like you know, in a relationship. Yeah, yeah, that's not good either. I can't half your shit done.

Charles:

I mean, we're partners on the podcast. Yeah, you've got your partner dick on on your technical work. Yep, I mean, imagine if one of the two of you was constantly agreeing to things that you couldn't deliver on. What kind of partnership would that be? Not not a good one? So, yeah, that's the yeah learning to know what it is you can say yes to and what you can't is is going to make.

Dan:

And having the balls to express it Like that's. I think we all know what we can do, but when the challenges for most of us, and me included, is having having the courage to Express it and the skill set to do it in a way where you don't feel like you're being offensive or a jerk or whatever.

Charles:

Yeah but you're still Standing up for yourself and I would say that this carries over into your personal life as well, because we're talking about time management overall. Say no to the things you don't want to do. I mean, it doesn't just have to be I don't have the bandwidth to do that, I'm I'm incapable of doing that. It can also be I don't want to do that. Yeah, now, obviously you don't get to say that at work very much, because you know that's what the money's for. They get you to do things you don't maybe love doing a hundred percent of the time, but when it comes to being invited to social events, or when it even comes to your partner, you know asking you to do something a vacation or an event or a concert or whatever that you don't want to do. Yeah, your, your time and your attention is finite, so don't spend it doing things you don't want to do.

Dan:

And you know an easier way that I heard from Michael Hyatt.

Dan:

He's he talks about like a yes-no-yes method and Basically what he has recommended from people who like requested for him to like review their, their book Manuscripts, because he was a publisher of one time and he didn't have the bandwidth to do it anymore. He would offer other resources For that person to help solve their problem and and you might be able to do so. If somebody wants to go on a vacation, you don't want to go on, instead of just going, no, maybe, maybe think, hey, well, maybe I could come up with a vacation. I do want to go on with you and maybe, you know, offer some suggestions like that, whereas you're not just shutting it down, because I feel like if the person's important to you and some capacity, I Think it's a it's a little bit of a softer way, after you say no, to suggest something that might be similar or something that might be helpful for them, yeah, or or even, you know, I think, I think you probably have a better time if you invited your friend Dan to go on that cruise with you.

Charles:

It's me.

Charles:

Yeah, I mean that's not a bad idea, right, invite me. You know I'm not really into the crew in, but I know you and Dan had a great time last time you went on a cruise together, so maybe you should take him instead. I am available for cruises. So, yeah, right, noted, prioritize yourself.

Charles:

So the the message here is if you're like me and you've got a a list of self-care activities that you know you need to be doing every day to be at your best, then give those items the priority on your schedule and either Get disciplined about waking up early enough to to do those things before your customers or your job or your kids require time of you, or just just change the time that your day starts. And again, you know, if you've got kids and and a job, that you have to be at your desk at a certain time. You're not gonna have that flexibility, but what you might have is the flexibility to go to bed a little earlier and wake up a little earlier and get things done before the world around you has has woken up, and that's that's why I've done it.

Dan:

Yeah, that's great, one of the.

Dan:

I don't know where I got this idea from, but I heard at one point you should write down all the things that you do when you are at your best, so you actually, and then post it somewhere when you're gonna see it, because we all fall off the wagon and off the horse and you know we life gets in the way and before we know it, we're not doing any of the things that make us function at our best. So, again, going to bed by, for you know 9, 30 going. You know drinking X amount of glasses of water every day. You know journaling in the morning, going for walks in the morning, reducing my caffeine I've listed all these things out, so and I put it next to my monitor, so when I'm not feeling my best, I can look at it like you know what. I'm not gonna be able to do all these things, but you know what. I can pick one or two of these and that's sometimes enough to shift the momentum, momentum in the different direction, and I started end up doing the other ones as well.

Charles:

Yeah, that's Because, again, you know, having I'll say it again, having a plan that you can't deliver on a hundred percent is Is infinitely better than having no plan at all, mm-hmm. And so having that stuff in your face where you can say, all right, this day has been crazy, but I, I can take five minutes to meditate, yeah, and then just and then do it, and then you know, number one, it helps you to build the habit.

Dan:

and number two, you get all those benefits we talked about about meditating, for example, come from meditating and I would suggest is by having those priorities written out, even if it's not the top one, pick the thing that you enjoy the most or you're gonna get the most pleasure from first and just try that. And if you're not Feeling like you want to do anything, look at all of those and just pick the thing that you might get the most joy out of, and a lot of times again it changes your state of mind and then you end up doing the other stuff as well.

Charles:

Yeah, and if you're really struggling. That might be helpful and an alternative to that. That's a good idea. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would. I would say, the two to consider are what do I enjoy the most and what can I knock out the fastest? Oh, great point, because if there's one ass, with a very low investment of time and energy. Another one Yep, check off the list. Yeah, then that might be even more valuable on some days in the one that's the most fun.

Dan:

Yeah, we all have that sense of completion. We get that little dopamine hit when we get to check that box and say, hey, we got this thing done. Oh yeah, I'm making progress now. Yeah, that's great.

Charles:

Okay, so our next episode, we're gonna start with something that you and I both find very important. We were talking about this before we recorded tonight, when we were sitting at your dining room table. It's easy for me to do the things for myself that I need to do when all I'm doing is stay at home that day and night, not to stay at my camper all day and all night, and I don't have any Work, travel or any social commitments. Then I can. I can eat the way that I want to. I can Clean up my place the way that I want to. I can get the errands done that I need to. I can do all that stuff when I'm at home. Yeah, it's when I hit the road that the wheels fall off often as far as my, my eating, my exercise, my fill in the blank. When I'm on the go, the the chances of me getting the things done in that day that I want to do for myself. Yeah, just right down the toilet.

Charles:

Yeah so we will talk about On our next episode how to take care of yourself when you're on vacation or when you're driving for work or what, whenever you're. You're just not from your normal base of operations, where it's easy to do the things that you want to do and get them done. What can we do about that? Because that's that's a lesson I absolutely need to learn mm-hmm. God, it's hard, so it's not an all or nothing.

Dan:

I mean, I would say that's, that's Again, we're just talking about being flexible or whatever. You know, don't expect to be perfect and and you know, alright, I already missed my morning, my normal morning routine or my normal morning breakfast, and then the whole day is gone. A lot of us, you know, fall into that.

Charles:

Yeah, you know so, yeah, so next week we'll talk about some strategies and Dan and I will bring specific areas of weakness that we struggle with and we will. We will try to Group, think our way into a solution for for our own problems about what we're doing, what we're doing wrong frequently or where we where we find ourselves getting tripped up. So hopefully you guys will get some value out of that. Excellent, okay, anything else, dan, before we close the book on Acupuncture and time management? No, not this point. Okay, same, I will speak with you next week. Thanks, all right, have a good one you too.

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Charles

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Dan

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