Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Quality Time: More Than Just Being Together
Podcast Episode: Quality Time: More Than Just Being Together
Episode Overview:
In this episode of the "Mindfully Masculine" podcast, Charles and Dan dive into the second love language: Quality Time. They explore the importance of focused attention, meaningful interactions, and how quality time enhances relationships. The hosts discuss strategies for men to overcome distractions and connect with their partners.
Key Topics Covered:
Defining Quality Time:
Understanding quality time as a love language. Differentiating between physical proximity and meaningful connection. The importance of focused, undivided attention.
The Pitfalls of Low-Quality Time:
How low-quality time impacts relationships. The importance of setting expectations and delivering on promises. Avoiding distractions and being present.
Balancing Sacrifices and Personal Interests:
Finding balance between personal interests and quality time. The importance of not sacrificing crucial activities. Tips for rearranging schedules.
Active Listening and Effective Communication:
Techniques for active listening and maintaining eye contact. Understanding and validating your partner’s feelings. Asking follow-up questions and showing genuine interest.
Creating Meaningful Moments:
Ideas for activities that promote quality time, such as shared hobbies and book clubs. The role of spontaneity in maintaining excitement. Planning regular check-ins to strengthen the relationship.
Overcoming Common Challenges:
Addressing challenges of different schedules and personal preferences. The benefits of mindfulness and meditation. Strategies for men with ADHD or those who struggle with maintaining attention.
Practical Tips for Quality Time:
Preparation and Environment:
Prepare your environment to minimize distractions. Use tools like "Do Not Disturb" on your phone.
Sacrifice Wisely:
Evaluate and sacrifice less important activities before giving up things you love. Prioritize tasks that contribute positively to the relationship.
Engage in Shared Activities:
Participate in activities that both partners enjoy. Be open to trying new things that interest your partner and communicate your boundaries.
Regular Check-Ins:
Schedule regular check-ins to discuss needs and feelings. Strengthen emotional connections and understanding.
Episode Highlights:
Charles and Dan share personal anecdotes about their experiences. The hosts discuss empathy and validating feelings. Tips for men to improve listening skills and maintain a positive attitude during quality time.
Listener Takeaways:
Quality time is more than just being together; it’s about being present and engaged. Men can improve their relationships by prioritizing quality time and practicing active listening. Consistent efforts in spending quality time can significantly impact relationship satisfaction.
Call to Action:
Follow or subscribe to the "Mindfully Masculine" podcast for insights on building strong, mindful relationships. Share this episode with friends and family who might benefit from understanding quality time.
Connect with Us:
Website: MindfullyMasculine.com
Instagram: @MindfullyMasculine
Twitter: @MindfulMen
Email: mindfullymasculine@gmail.com
Join us next time as we explore the love language of receiving and giving gifts, and learn how to make your partner feel valued through thoughtful gestures.
#QualityTime #MindfullyMasculine #RelationshipAdvice #LoveLanguages #ActiveListening #MeaningfulMoments #Mindfulness #MensHealth #PodcastEpisode #HealthyRelationships
Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles, okay, so on today's episode, dan and I will continue discussing the five love languages for men by Gary Chapman, and today we are going to talk about quality time, one of the tougher languages to become fluent in, at least based on my own personal experience. Please subscribe or follow the podcast in your chosen podcast app and you can also watch our full video episodes on YouTube. Thanks and enjoy. Good morning, charles. How are you? Spectacular? Dan, Thank you. How are you doing? I am well, all right. We are about to get into five love languages again for men, and this was a fun one to prepare for. We'll get to that in a minute. A couple of things I wanted to mention to you. Oh, I finally took some of Garrett's advice from self-care for men and have purchased some new shampoo, conditioner and body wash, decided to get stuff without any of those, whatever. Those ingredients he says not to get are, yeah, sulfates, parabensens there's another one it's, I think is that one of them yeah, yeah, whole foods 365 brand.
Charles:They have a fragrance free, everything else free shampoo, conditioner and body wash and they were all on sale for prime members. Last time I went there to return a package, an amazon package so I was like, all right, they're all on sale right now. They're not very expensive, certainly not compared to other hair product I've bought, and I've been real pleased with their store brand Anything. Their eggs are my. They're the best eggs I've ever gotten anywhere. They're pasture raised eggs.
Charles:So, yeah, I decided to give their shampoo, body wash and conditioner a shot and I've been pretty happy with it. I've only used it a couple times since I bought it, but it's feels real good, suds up good enough. It's not as crazy sudsy as some stuff I've used because it doesn't have whatever that ingredient is that makes everything super sudsy. But yeah, for like I got a. I got big bottles of all three of them the fragrance free. The other varieties come in like small and large. The fragrance-free only comes in these big bottles, but it's still six or seven dollars for those big bottles of stuff, wow. So I'm I'm more than happy to use that for a long time, until until I run out that's great.
Dan:Yeah, uh, I've been using this stuff that doesn't sud up quote unquote. Very well, what I found is I usually just need to wash my hair twice, okay so the second round it's around, it's up. It just doesn't have as strong of ingredients to get rid of the oil as the the traditional yeah shampoos. So that's helped me, because I feel like if it's not sudsing up, then there's still some oil in there that needs to get cleaned out.
Charles:It's funny you mention that I was at a disappointingly old age when I learned that really the only functional purpose of soap is to allow oil and water to bond to each other and that's how it gets you clean Like I had. I was well into my 20s, late 20s, early 30s before I was like I heard that and I was like, oh yeah, that is what soap's for. It allows the oil and dirt on your skin to bind to water so that it can then go down the drain. Yeah, oh yeah, that makes sense. I've been a soap user for a long time and I never really understood that was the actual function of soap.
Dan:I didn't really think about it, but I'm like, yeah, I just want to get the oil out. Function of soap. I didn't really think about it but I'm like, yeah, I just want to get the oil out. But that's the same ingredients in keto chow.
Charles:believe it or not, they use something similar, not soap, but to bind the oil and water to the actual keto chow itself.
Dan:So it doesn't come across, so it doesn't separate, so it can actually all.
Charles:Yeah, when you're putting four ounces of cream or two ounces of butter, you don't want that and then, in my case, mixing it up and keeping it in my refrigerator for a few days like you don't want that oil and yeah, all that, all those milk solids and fats to separate from the water that you use to mix it up. So, yeah, it makes sense that they would have to come up with something to prevent that from happening or it would get gross. And it works really well. Yeah, it works extremely well. I would tell people like I would not, just because I like it really cold like an ice cream milkshake, but it tastes better after it's been in the refrigerator. For 12 to I'd say 36 hours is about the. That's the sweet spot for me with those shakes. They get like when you first mix them up, they're not cold enough. But in addition to not being cold enough, the consistency is not as good as it is if you let it get really cold for half a day or day and a half.
Dan:Yeah, I know with a lot of protein powders that doesn't mix very well. That's one of the nice things about the keto show.
Charles:Yeah, I use isopure. That's one of the protein companies that you can get some decent flavors with no carbs, but you pretty much have to consume it immediately because, yeah, putting that in the fridge it does not stay near as good as the keto chow shakes. It gets really gross actually. Yeah, they, uh, I've. I've got a canister full of my uh banana cream flavor that I that they make, isopure makes, and I like, and then they also have a uh if I once I like, and then they also have a once I get back to lifting and being hungry all the time and supplementing my protein intake. They have a toasted coconut flavor that I would love to figure out. Maybe Amazon sells a sample size that I can try because that sounds like it would be pretty yummy. But, yeah, their protein powder is pretty good but you got to literally mix it up and right down the hatch immediately.
Charles:Yeah, it's been my experience too, Do you mix up for protein drinks? Do you mix with water or do you mix with milk?
Dan:No, it's water. Yeah, I can't do it with water. Yeah.
Charles:It's too. Either I reduce the water so much that it's a thickness that I can handle, but then it tastes terrible, or I put too much water in and it's runny. Usually what I do is organic skim milk, okay, and I'm getting some. I'm getting some milk sugar in there with it, but it's either that or not drinking at all for me, so I go ahead and do that. Now, I haven't tried the keto chow method where I could mix a little heavy cream with a bit of water. I do that. On the protein, I haven't tried that with any other protein powder except keto chow. Yeah, and that sounds like it might be a better option for steering. Clear of lactose. Yeah, and those extra carbs and calories.
Dan:Yeah, for me, I'm a little lactose intolerant at the same time. Also, whenever I'm eating any type of dairy, even if it doesn't have a lot of lactose, I feel like I get a little bloated, yeah, a little puffy from that and I suck, because I love everything dairy, cheese and milk and I love it all.
Charles:Speaking of cheese and Whole Foods great transition. For me, one of the things I love about Whole Foods is even their very corporate-y package stuff that you get from them. They have some options you just don't have at normal grocery stores. So I was looking at their bagged, shredded cheese just for omelets and stuff and they had a bag of I've tried the Munster before and that was really good in omelets. They had a bag of goat cheese that was already shredded and so I bought that and made an omelet with it on Wednesday. I was a little disappointed. It was not strong enough for me. It was a little too mild, which usually when I get like goat cheese that is like part of a salad or something. The goat cheese has a little bit of a bite to it. I love that about it Me too.
Dan:I think the inexpensive goat cheese is not going to be as aged. That's probably what it is yeah, yeah.
Charles:So I I'm going to, I'm going to continue to use it, but I'm probably going to put I've been making most of my omelets lately with cream cheese and I've been making most of my omelets lately with cream cheese, and so I'm going to put a little cream cheese with the goat cheese, because cream cheese does have that nice little sharp bite that you get when you're having like a bagel with cream cheese. It's so good. So, yeah, I'm going to go back to the cream cheese, but I'll use the goat cheese too and I'm going to try to figure out some other ways to use that goat cheese. What else could I put it in that? The flavor might work a little bit better, but it was almost like your keto chow? Ew, don't be gross. It was almost like a mozzarella or a provolone. It just did not have much hit to it at all.
Dan:It could have been just one of those Very mild, right, so it's supposed to be a little easier. On the digestion goat-based products I've heard that too, so maybe that's what their angle is and not necessarily going for the full goat flavor, cause a lot of people don't like that goat. I love that. Yeah, that blows my mind when people are like ew goat cheese.
Charles:It's got that. It's got that funky smell and funky taste. Yeah, that's what I love about it. Maybe that's what this product is for. Yeah, maybe they're going a little yeah, a little broader than my weird taste. That's possible. I don't think there's going to be a super long chapter. You are going to Europe soon and I found out during my therapy session with Renata she's going to be out of the country for three weeks At about the same time you're going to be gone. So if anybody has any desires to really trigger me, freak me out, cause a meltdown. The time to do it is definitely when both my therapist and my best buddy slash podcast host are out of the country and and partially unavailable the good thing is, by the time people hear this, we'll be back.
Dan:I will already, no worries.
Charles:Yes, I'm really relying on people's psychic ability to think.
Charles:Charles seems vulnerable right now. Now's the time to get him. At least mercury is not in gatorade or anything. So well, that's a good one. I have not heard that we'll be okay for until that happens in august, when I'm in europe. Oh does yeah, okay, hopefully. My technology again. I don't believe in any of that stuff, and unless I find it entertaining or flattering, and then, in which case it's totally true. But yeah, I'll be in europe when, when mercury hits the gatorade again, there's a I'm stealing that from a meme where somebody's mom texted them and was like, be careful, I hear that there's mercury in the Gatorade. Oh, that's awesome, yeah.
Charles:And the other thing I wanted to mention was on Monday yes, monday I made a trip over to where I'm going to be moving my RV next to do some reconnoitering or reconnaissance. Next to do some reconnoitering or reconnaissance. And I visited two office locations to check out for coworking desks. Oh, great idea. They were both pretty nice. But the second one I went to is a little further from where I'm going to be parked. It's a 19 minute drive, the other one being a 12 minute drive. But the 19minute drive is in this beautiful building right in downtown Sarasota, like in the fancy part of downtown Sarasota.
Dan:You need to go for that one. Yes, I have a question For seven To motivate you to go. Yes, that's the thing To leave and go. You're going to be excited about that.
Charles:There seem to be ample places to walk. There's ample stores to walk to, there's ample restaurants to walk to. There's just nice wide sidewalks in the downtown areas. Yeah, I did have to. It did occur to me that I'm gonna have to do some shopping for work clothes, because I work clothes that are also compatible with going for walks and stuff, which means I'm gonna have to get some shorts that are longer than five inches, because I can't really I don't want to. I don't want to wear five inch shorts to the office. I wear underpants, I'm protected from catching a charge for indecent exposure, but sitting in gum, oh yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, it looks like that area looks nicer than a place where I would have to worry about sitting in gum, but that grosses me out.
Dan:I've never that's never happened to me. That was the line in my fraternity in college, which was oh hey man, I sat in some gum and then they stretched their testicle out from underneath their shorts. Ew, gross, yeah. And by that point it's too late to not be looking already, because you're like, oh, you sat in some gum and your vision's already down there.
Charles:Yeah, that's yeah. You've seen the movie Waiting right. Yes, yeah, where, yeah, showing exposing yourself to your friends and coworkers is like a mission, and my buddy, sean's in that movie. Oh, get out, yeah he mentions it frequently and then I tease him about mentioning it and then I mention it every chance I get that. I have a friend that was in that movie with ryan reynolds, but yeah, he was actually in that. He was and he had voice part, he wasn't just an extra that's amazing.
Charles:Yeah, it's a pretty funny scene. Check out that movie waiting if you haven't seen it. But yeah, I, that's so funny. I heard one of the one of the best lines or responses I ever heard to somebody doing that was responding very loud oh my gosh, that looks like a scrotum, only smaller, so now I just steal that whatever. Thankfully I'm a 46 year old man, so not many people try that that fun prank on me anymore. That's one that, yeah, if that happened to me and be like okay, bob's having a nervous breakdown, we need to call the police. But yeah, my current social circle doesn't play that game anymore, but that was always my.
Charles:As soon as I heard somebody with that response, that was my go-to. Sounds like you need some new friends. Yeah, agreed, but I don't think for the same reason you're thinking but yeah, so I did. Yeah, I did find that great space and it's not very expensive. Now I went on their website just now to look and see what the price was for the co-working desk. They told me $109. Their website says $159. Either way, it's a value For a month, for one month, and they're open from 7 am to 6 pm and you can stay later.
Charles:You just can't get back in after you leave. That's great. Yeah, I'm not going to remodel my RV in a way that I don't still have a nice computer with a giant monitor and a nice desk, so that's still going to be great and I'll be able to work from there when, for whatever reason, I can't go to the office. But just yeah, the ability to be social, be in a place where other people are focusing on their work, having either my AirPods or my big over-the ear headphones. I'll plan on doing a lot of my tech work and a lot of the work on the editing, the podcast and our social media.
Dan:I feel like it'd be great for creativity having a bigger space than the RV. Just mind wise. I know I always do better in a bigger, open space when I'm trying to be creative.
Charles:Yeah, and working out in a gym versus working out in your home gym and your garage, you're also there. There is a little bit of that good kind of guilt where you're like, ok, I'm going here, I'm in front of these people, I'm not going to be the one guy who just goes to the office to scroll on my phone and play around, so there will be some of that positive peer pressure to be productive that I experienced. That when I'm on site with a client, when I even just go to a coffee shop to work, it's okay, you're here to work. You've proven to yourself that it's worth the effort of not just walking from your bed to your desk. So now take it seriously and deliver on it same thing happens with me.
Dan:If I put on a polo shirt for a collared polo shirt like that puts me in my work mode and I will even do that on the weekend when I'm trying to buckle down and get some work done. That that is important to me. If I put like a t-shirt on, it's more like relaxation, creative type of thing, this like this v yeah yeah, but if I put on that, intentionally put on that work polo, I like that, I'm gonna steal that idea really.
Charles:It really makes a difference for me mentally. All right, yeah, I will. Yeah, I definitely I had to take less breaks.
Dan:Really they're shorter, it's. I don't know. It's just a strange association my mind has with it.
Charles:That's helpful. Though I like that, I'm going to steal that. I was thinking my typical outfit for going to this co-working space would probably be my J crew shorts that I like and a polo shirt and then some shoes that are comfortable enough to spend time walking around downtown in and because, again, that'll keep me, that outfit will keep me cool during I'm going to be there July, august, september at least, maybe longer, and going for walks is going to be pretty brutal. But I've shout out to Aviator Nation and their amazing cotton blend polo shirts. I just ordered a new one, by the way, they had every holiday they have a 20% off sale and then they also have a pretty nice loyalty program where you build up points and then you can cash those in for $10 off gift cards and stuff. So, yeah, when you're those, their polo shirts are like $89, $90 sticker, but I'd never pay sticker. I always wait for sales and if you send them a picture review, they give you points. If you do a video review of your clothes that you bought for them, they give you points. So you can do all these things to get loyalty points. And then, yeah, I almost never don't have a $10 gift card with them based on I purchase one piece of clothing, then I do all three kinds of reviews for that clothing, and then they give me these points and then, by the time their next sale comes along, then 20% off plus a $10 gift card, and then you're getting a $90 polo shirt for $65, $67. It's smart marketing, which is it's still a lot to spend on a polo shirt, but they are extremely comfortable, extremely flattering and they hold up pretty well to Washington, so that's why I'm willing to spend the extra money on them.
Charles:Okay, let's dive into our chapter on quality time, and this is going to be a bit of a deep dive and I'm going to go through the outline that you and I created first, dan, and then I'm going to try to just go through the text of the chapter. Hit some of the high points that I made notes on. Okay, we got to talk about. This Sounds good. Either this is awesome or I don't know what he meant by this. Okay, quality time is the second love language we already talked about. Acts of service. Was what we did last correct or no? Words of affirmation words of affirmation Now we're doing quality time. Okay, and by quality time, what we mean by that is focused attention to your partner ideally undivided attention and I have some things to say about that and meaningful interactions. So quality time is not sitting in the same place at the same time while you're both on your phones. It's not even just sitting in the same place.
Dan:But what if I'm having a quality interaction with my phone?
Charles:Then your phone feels loved, but your phone's not going anywhere anyway. I hear win. I don't know. It's definitely win-lose. Yeah, your partner doesn't care how good your relationship with your phone is. Time for a new partner. Good luck.
Charles:When you find those sorts of women who don't care about quality time or having their love language Fair, you let me know where you find them. I think they come in a box. Okay, so yeah, shared activities, meaningful conversations, actively listening to your partner's needs and desires these are the way, the ways that a person who has this love language as their primary is going to feel loved. And here's the. The unfortunate, sort of dark side of this, which he didn't really mention in the chapter, but I'm going to mention it anyway is if your wife, girlfriend, partners love language is quality time and you give her low quality time instead, that's way worse than nothing. So, basically, if you make a poor, lowort attempt at quality time, that's going to be worse than not making an effort at all.
Charles:Now, why do you say that? Because usually what is required for setting aside quality time is setting an expectation of this day. This time we're going to do this activity together and it's going to mean something to you, because I understand that this is your love language. And then, when the date, the time, the place comes and you either haven't prepared for it, you haven't made the necessary work arrangements to be unavailable, or you're distracted by the outcome of some sporting event that you're either just interested in as a fan, or you put some money on, or whatever, and you've set the expectation of I'm giving you this time and this attention at this particular place, and then you don't deliver on it. Yeah, it's what a rough message to send to somebody.
Dan:So lesson is don't set the bar so high.
Charles:You're having quite the comedy renaissance today, aren't you?
Dan:That's what you said. You said right Well, versus not doing anything, yeah, no. But I totally understand. You're setting, yeah, it's it's intention. You're getting somebody all excited you literally I didn't mean to joke but at the same time you're getting somebody's expectations to be like oh yeah, we're gonna do all these wonderful things. A lot of times it's that anticipation that people really enjoy. So it's like the anticipation of the holidays. It's not like Christmas morning itself, it's yeah, the season leading up to it.
Charles:Exactly that's for me a hundred percent.
Dan:Yeah, and so now it's building and building and then, yeah, you show up and and you don't deliver on on what you had basically been promising. Yeah, it does do a lot of damage because now you are showing that, showing your partner that you aren't who you said you were, or yes, that's one of the who you want to be.
Charles:One of the negative messages.
Dan:I think you're right. It ends the relationship a lot more quickly than not doing anything where there's still a question like will he or won't he Right?
Charles:Yeah, you can cruise in a relationship for a while on the idea of oh, he just doesn't know any better, he just doesn't get it, he just doesn other people.
Charles:Now you know that there's an issue here, you know it needs to be worked on. And then, yeah, if you don't actually put in that effort to deliver on it, and that's I think it was Jordan Peterson in 12 rules for life. When we, when we went through that book a long time ago, either he either said in an interview or he said in the text of the book the most successful people are the ones who over-promise and then over-deliver. Where you commit to, I can do something in the future that I can't do today, and then you become the person who can do it to that level or higher. That's when your career, your relationships, all that will take off. But as long as you're the person who over promises and under delivers, then you're just banging your head against the wall. You're not going to. It's always going to be one step forward, two steps back.
Dan:Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, it's interesting. It definitely applies across all aspects of life, not just here in a relationship.
Charles:Yeah, where, and it's funny, the Dr Robert Glover talks about some of this and no more Dr Robert Glover talks about some of this in no More, Mr Nice Guy, when he touches on how nice guys and again, for the uninitiated, when he because one of the nice guy instincts is to under promise and over deliver. So, basically, you are putting in more effort than what you've said you would put in or what is being asked of you, because you think, okay, I'll be seen as valuable If I work harder than I have to, then people will respect me, love me, tell me that I'm worthy, blah, blah, blah. And so that's another trap. You don't want to take some of these things and obsess over them quietly and try to, like you should be having a dialogue with your partner about their love, languages and the value that you are attempting to bring to the relationship by focusing some of your effort on this. Where, if you are just to bring to the relationship by focusing some of your effort on this, where, if you are just the kind of guy who I think there's a problem in my relationship, I'm going to study this in secret and then I'm going to work hard without telling her to try to meet these needs. And then she then either you pick the wrong love language or you implemented your fix in the wrong way way because you were too worried about having that open and honest conversation with her. Then you're going to feel frustrated, you're going to get resentful and, yeah, I again.
Charles:I don't think this book was written for guys who struggle with some of those nice guy tendencies but that's a lot of guys and I think that trying to attack this book and trying to improve your relationship while you're still not working on your people pleasing and your codependence, you could be setting yourself up for some pretty big failings for sure. So, yeah, I just wanted to mention that. Okay, so personal experiences I've had at least one, possibly two partners that their primary language was quality time and I failed to meet that language in all the ways that we have just basically been talking about. Where, yeah, quality time is going to be a particular challenge for men who are not good at dedicating their attention to one thing and sticking with it, whether that's just through cultural conditioning, whether that's through actually legitimate diagnosis of ADHD, whether, yeah, you just have that monkey mind and you haven't spent time trying to discipline yourself, to learn to flex that muscle of attention. You can find yourself trying to do some of these things and getting distracted very easily.
Dan:Yeah, because you get uncomfortable when it's not something that's entertaining or stimulating, and a lot of times people are saying things that may not be of interest to you, but it's again not about you at that point. It's about you pushing aside those feelings of being uncomfortable because you're bored with the situation and focus back in on what they're saying. And it's a struggle. It's not an easy thing to do and I've, you know. I try to actively practice that, but I forget all the time too.
Charles:Yeah, so there's a couple of things you can do about that. You can, number one, prepare your environment for success, which you and I talk about that both on the show and offline, all the time, which I would say, if you are making a date with your partner to focus in activity, a conversation, whatever, where her need for quality time is the primary goal that's being served, yeah, try to plan it in a space where you're able to cut off as many of those distractions as you possibly can, and I think we talked in the last episode, or the one right before that, about using the iPhone's do not disturb feature and tying it to the location that you're currently in so that it's not just a matter of time, it's a matter of okay, as long as I'm physically in this place, then that usually will correspond to while I'm doing this thing place, then that usually will correspond to while I'm doing this thing.
Charles:I don't want to be interrupted. So that is one way that if you're not going to someplace special excuse me, if you're at your house, then maybe that might be a little harder to apply. That Then you're using the time feature to say okay, honey, I've set aside 90 minutes, or whatever it is, for you and I to focus on playing this game together or having this conversation, doing this check-in. One of the examples that I really like that we'll talk about at the end of this is basically having a book club with your wife where you both read the same book and then come together and talk about it. That's definitely a recipe for quality time.
Dan:One thing that the do not disturb feature also does is it can base it on the events in your calendar. That's true.
Charles:Yes.
Dan:That's something I like to do is block everything off of my calendar in advance, and so you can say, hey, keep, do not disturb. On until the end of this event, and so it doesn't really matter where you are at that point. That's true, yeah, and that's been very helpful for me. I use that one a lot.
Charles:Yeah, I've noticed on my phone, since I have the open table app that I will occasionally use for sending reservations, it will automatically say it'll prompt me to say okay, you're about to start your reservation at this restaurant. Do you want, do not disturb, to be on while you're there? Awesome, it's like, yeah, absolutely, and yeah, having those prompts is very helpful, okay, so let's say, yeah, let's get into a little bit of the. I think we've covered in a roundabout way everything on our outline, but there are some things that I did want to mention from the text that either concerned me or I just want to bring attention to. First, there's again the writing style of this book is not my cup of tea, if I have not made that clear already. It's written in a very churchy, seminary type of way.
Charles:I had the thought of the way people will often make fun of Star Wars movies in the way that George Lucas writes dialogue. Harrison Ford he had this story that he would always tell where he would say to George Lucas listen, man, I know it's easy to write this stuff, but as an actor, you, just you can't talk this way. I didn't know that. Yeah and yeah when he, especially when he gets into some of his examples and his stories. It's no, this either this didn't happen or this did not happen anywhere near the way you're writing it. It just I know how people sound, I know how people talk and what you're saying. That this person said it's just not true. And yeah, there'll be a few times where we get into that.
Charles:All right, if you're married to a native quality time speaker, you should feel at least a little flattered. Your wife isn't looking for words of affirmation or gifts or acts of service, she just wants you. I think that does a little bit of a disingenuous job of making it sound like this one's easier in some way, and I would argue this is one of the tougher ones. Yes, and and that could be based on how I'm built as an individual that this is a tough one, but this is a tough one for me, and the idea of, oh, you're lucky, she just wants you. It's like she okay, she just not. She wants the best version of me putting forth all the effort which is your partner deserves that. I'm not saying that she doesn't, but the idea of, yeah, just the way he says this, it makes it almost feel like you've got it easy. You do not have it easy. This is a tough one to do well.
Dan:Because this is something that requires you to be consistent for long periods of time, where you are doing a lot of mental expending a to be present, to be focused, to be thoughtful and to feel uncomfortable over and over again as you push aside your other habits and natural tendencies, which I think, as human beings, most of us have to think about what we're going to say next and not really do active listening.
Charles:Yes, and I'm glad you said that in that way Exactly the idea that this does require a commitment to, even if it's relatively small amounts of effort over a long period of time. This language, almost more than all the others, does not lend itself to grand gestures and as men, we will often decide okay, what's the best fix for whatever this problem is is a basically a sprint of a very directed high energy for a short period of time, and then I can fix this. Now, if there are plenty of things in life, if you're trying to get your house fixed up before you put it on the market, then, yeah, that a sprint could be the exact way to do that. You get a bunch of buddies to come over, you spend the weekend just repainting and cleaning and getting getting all the furniture staged and you just put in a bunch of effort, real hard, for 24, 48 hours and then, boom, the problem solved.
Charles:Where this love language in particular, yeah, it's really about a little bit, over a long period of time to say, okay, hey, partner, I have changed my identity. I am now someone who, on a regular basis whether it's a recurring schedule or not takes your need for quality time seriously, and now part of who I am, part of what I do every day at some level is acknowledging your need for this. And yeah, that is again. It's like exercising or losing weight. It's not the hitting it hard for one day at the gym, like hitting it 10 times as hard for one day is not the same as hitting a 10th as hard for 10 days.
Dan:And he does also make a very good point is that time is the one commodity that we all have the same amount of, and it is the most precious commodity, because all the other things we can get more of.
Dan:Time is the one thing we cannot have more of. So, in this love language, you are giving up some of your time, that you might be doing other things, and that is a very valuable thing. He just mentions that. So now you are giving a very valuable piece of you and your life and what's going on and what you're used to. I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing it, but it becomes a very difficult thing because you might now need to reorganize and other parts of your life so that you have the time to be focused, because if you're thinking about other things that you need to do or you are used to doing other things and not spending as much quality time with your partner, those things need to be taken care of or, at least in your mind, they need to be let go so you can sit there and focus. So that's another reason why I think this is a tough ask.
Charles:Yeah, and I'll build on that and say even further is I think one of the mistakes that men will make is that they will, when it comes to that list of okay, what am I going to sacrifice, take it more seriously to meet my wife's partner's need for quality time. We screw that up a lot where sometimes our fellowship with other men, our hobbies and interests that keep us physically active and in good shape it's like sometimes the ones that are giving us the other most tangible physical and mental health benefits are the first ones that we will chuck to the side where it's okay, like very few of us will by default, and you and I are both pretty active guys, but if I come to the conclusion I need to devote more time to my partner's need for quality time, I'm usually not going to go straight to. I need to spend less time on YouTube. I need to spend less time binging TV shows. It's going to be me and Dan.
Charles:We go out and hang out as buddies like two nights a week and we could probably get by with one night a week instead, like for whatever reason. That thing, which I also enjoy, obviously, I get a lot out of, but when it comes time to, and I don't know is part of that. It's more performative for me to be able to say hey, honey, I'm cutting my Dan time from two nights down to one. Look how much I'm willing to do for you, or is it just? It's much clearer to me of, oh, I'm spending four weeks or four hours a week with Dan. I can just turn that into two hours.
Dan:I think it's what you were touching on. Is that it's more visible, right? Yeah, she's not aware of how much. Probably not aware of how much time you're spending on YouTube. She's not aware, yeah.
Charles:If you don't live together, then she's not seeing the time you waste. You're probably talking about the time that you're, that you have on your schedule with your friends, with your basketball league, with your gyms, like she knows about that. But all the leaky parts of your schedule where you're just screwing around and wasting time, she probably doesn't know about that as much.
Dan:So, yeah, it may not feel so, that's why I think a lot of that goes away. Also, I think it it's a lot more draining. I don't want to say draining, but yeah, it takes energy and a lot more time to go, and even if it's with friends and other things like that, versus the energy it takes to stop watching youtube and things like that, it's a lot. It takes a lot of energy. So if you're going to be spent, if you're going to need to spend energy with another human being, that you need to invest in that and that I think there's a lot more that goes into that.
Dan:Yeah, I see what you're saying so I think if you don't let go of some other things that require a lot of energy even if it's good stuff, like you're hanging out with friends it's difficult then to just add an additional boatload of energy and time and commitment to more activities with your partner, because YouTube doesn't take much, or watching Netflix stuff doesn't take much energy at all, and so you need to ramp up you really need to ramp up your energy levels, and these days, a lot of us are suffering from low energy, as it is.
Charles:It's not easy.
Dan:Maintain it all.
Charles:Yeah, the stuff that's very easy to just float into and float out of, that's a bigger time suck on our schedules than I think most of us realize. And yeah, later on, when he starts suggesting some of the ways to find quality time, I feel like he's suggesting all the worst things to cut.
Dan:And we'll talk about that when we get to the end. So, real quick, there is a great app called Rescue Time that I've dabbled with, where they walk you through there's a lot of really good videos on how to track what you're doing all day long and they walk you through it, and it's an app that can integrate with browsers and your phone and actually automatically turn off apps or your email, close down programs and things like that to get time back.
Dan:And it just might be a good way of figuring out hey, what am I spending my time on all day long by tracking it all? And you can take a look and go, oh, hey, what am I spending my time on all day long by tracking it all? And you can take a look and go, oh wow, I didn't realize how much time I spent just checking email because I get in that habit too, and so there's a lot of times where I don't need to do that. But I'm looking for that dopamine hit of that new message coming in that I can, in that sense of completion, to get that thing done.
Charles:Yeah, Sorry to take us down a rabbit hole. No, sorry to take us down a rabbit hole. No, I like that idea. Listen, share any app whenever it even partially fits in the conversation, because, look, I talk about that productive app on my phone all the time, as well as how we feel, and I've got apps on my phone that I absolutely rely on for quality of life stuff. So, yeah, we should always share those, okay. So let's talk a little bit about quality conversation.
Charles:The biggest thing here is, when you're having a conversation, your goal is to understand the other person's experience. That should be the primary, not to get to the end of the conversation so you can feel like, okay, mission conversation has been accomplished. We started the conversation, we had the conversation, we ended the conversation. We started the conversation, we had the conversation, we ended the conversation. And, yeah, we tend by we I mean me and you and possibly other men tend to look at conversations that way where it's okay, we're starting this conversation. So now we have a goal why I think this current news issue would be solved by this thing, or this political issue would be solved this way, or this issue with our couple's finances would be solved by doing this.
Charles:It's like we almost always you've heard the cliche before about how men and women shop for clothing, where women like to touch a lot of things and spend time in departments that have nothing to do with the garment that they have an upcoming need for. And look, I tend to do some of those things too. But then there are also some times where it's okay, I need a new Hawaiian shirt for this Hawaiian party Dan and I are going to. So I go straight into the department store entrance that I know is closest to that department of that store. I walk straight to the department store entrance that I know is closest to that department of that store. I walk straight to the rack that has the stuff that I need. I look, I find my size, I pay, I leave, and that is often the approach we will take to conversations with our partners during quality time, and that is almost certainly not what they're looking for. They're not looking for the conversation to be successfully one concluded yeah, it's interesting.
Dan:I'm thinking this kind of reminds me of a lot of our opinions, about our opinions, our tendencies when it comes to sex right, where a lot of times men, it's a a little transactional, and same thing with these conversations and shopping right.
Charles:It's transactional. It's problem, solution done type of thing, whereas a little bit more about the purpose of this experience is for this experience to conclude in a successful manner, where that is yeah.
Dan:Women, it's a little bit, I think. Most women. I think it's a little bit more different. It's different. They appreciate a lot of details, they really immerse themselves in the full experience.
Charles:They're feeling things Right. It's about being engaged in the middle of it, not getting to the end of it.
Dan:And I think that speaks to your point here is, if we keep that in mind, that and it's a little scary sometimes where there's no end in mind or no end in sight Right, where there's no end in mind or no end in sight right, you can't see anything. At the end you just stay engaged, right, and you go along with her and try to you know, feel her feelings and try to really understand, be along for the ride with her.
Charles:Yes.
Dan:And I remember he was talking about one particular spot in here where he basically I've been guilty of this too where a guy's wife is basically complaining about the same thing, Were you going to talk about that? Oh, absolutely.
Charles:This is one of the occasions of this guy telling him this story. It's no, people don't talk this way, sir, you just decided I need to make up a story of a guy who enters conversations with the plan of I'm going to solve my partner's problem, I'm not going to empathize with their feelings, and then I'm just going to create this narrative from nothing. Like this conversation didn't happen. But yeah, it's basically a guy saying my marriage is over because I always tried to solve her problem instead of listening to her, her feelings, and I did that unsuccessfully for so long. She I would tell her how to fix her problem. She wouldn't take my advice and I would get mad at her and not want to hear her problem anymore. And look there's.
Charles:I'm going to briefly take the other side of this, which there is a cost to pay to be a man in a relationship with a woman who hears her complaining about the same thing all the time and refusing to take any action to solve it. What do we do in that scenario? We don't just keep trying to run over her and insist that she take our advice to solve the problem. What we have to do and this is an uncomfortable conversation to have, but I think it's the healthy thing to do. At some point, you have to say this is an uncomfortable conversation to have, but I think it's the healthy thing to do. At some point, you have to say okay, listen, I don't have the ability to continue to be supportive in hearing you complain about the same problem over and over and over again and not taking action on it, and it's hurting me, it's bumming me out, it's making me feel like yeah, see, and that's, I'm an accomplice to your problem.
Dan:I'm glad you brought that up, because the first thing that went through my mind is yeah, wait a minute.
Dan:And he even mentions that in here, that in his fictitious story that the guy was feeling like, hey, he doesn't want his wife to be suffering at work, he wants her to be happy, he doesn't want her to have these problems and that's why he was giving her these solutions. And so my first question was is this really that big of a deal to her? Or is she feeling disconnected from him and is using these stories, or maybe embellishing the problems a little bit that they're more important than they actually are to her, in order to feel that connectedness to him? And because he never actually at least in the story, never actually right, made her feel that she, he was feeling her feelings and was connected, she kept trying over and over again. So my question is is would this story or these problems suddenly disappear if at some point the husband listened, felt what she's feeling and she felt connected to him, then she maybe wouldn't need to keep repeating the same problem over and over again.
Charles:That's a good point. That's my question.
Dan:Would that happen, or would it be like where you actually have to, after eight or nine times of complaining about the same thing, even if you are listening, nothing's getting solved? At that point, do we step in and do what you suggested, right, which is hey listen, you're bumming me out now because this is nothing's happening here. That's where I'm curious.
Charles:Yeah, and I don't know where that line is and I don't know how much of my own codependent tendencies make hearing about those things so difficult.
Dan:But tell me more about that. What do you? What is that? I'm not drawing the line there between Sure and that.
Charles:OK, so here's the way I see it a healthy, confident, interdependent person, then somebody else complaining about their struggle, you wouldn't take on. Oh, now I have to feel bad about this too. You could just sit and observe, sit with them in their feelings and observe their feelings and repeat their feelings back to them, without it also being now I've got to take on these negative feelings that you're telling me about as well, and it's interesting.
Dan:I. Is that really a codependence thing, or is that just a? I don't? I don't know enough about definitions of codependency, whatever, or if that's just, hey, I'm being a supportive person, human being, because I'm feeling those feelings too.
Charles:I would say if hearing a story about someone else that put them into a negative headspace puts you into a negative headspace, then yeah, let's come up with an example. So say your partner is okay. I had this report that I had to get done today in time for a meeting, and this other coworker of mine she had a much lower priority task that had a thousand pages that she set to the printer she knew I was going to be in a rush. Then I had to stand there and wait for her job to finish, even though blah, blah, blah and it really upset me.
Charles:And if you hear that story, I believe the healthy response to that is oh yeah, something like that has happened to me too and I remember that was frustrating. But if you like, actually feel yourself starting to get angry or starting to get feel devalued or something like that, interesting, ok, then I would say, ok, now we're veering into the part where you're taking on somebody else's feelings as part of your feelings and then that's going to affect your ability to provide empathy. It's going to be like, yeah, here's how you should get her back or here's how you should make it clear that you don't. You won't stand for that kind of behavior, because you're really turning it into something about you and not just focusing on her experience.
Dan:Right, yeah, I guess it's a rule of thumb. With OCD, things right Is like you can uh in my dad's kind of helped me understand when you know if you've got, if you just like things a certain way, or if you've got OCD. Ocd is where it actually affects other parts of your life.
Dan:Right, yeah, like an addiction would affect other parts of your life Exactly, and I think this kind of rings to that as well. Right, so you're now getting other parts of your life You're not just feeling empathetic with them, but now it's affecting you and other parts of your life from that story.
Charles:Okay, all right. Stories okay, all right, and I think that that is one of the ways that, as men, we can escape feelings of powerlessness and things like where your partner says, hey, I had this negative experience and I want to talk to you about it. The hardest thing is to just sit there and let them talk about it and not feel like we have to fix this, because I can't tolerate you being upset about this and so that will. I'm going to get mad at the person that mistreated you too, I'm going to yell about them too, or I'm going to tell you how you get them back or how you prevent them from hurting you again. Or it's just okay your partner is going to experience negative things in life. Some of you have something to do with, some of you have nothing to do with, and just being okay with that, without getting overly emotional or defensive, it's a skill most of us have to develop.
Dan:Was it Dr Julie's book who said that we need to keep feeding anger over and over again, Otherwise it dissipates after 90 seconds?
Charles:Sam Harris has talked about that too. Okay, yeah.
Dan:You mentioned it or whatever and so this, to me, is similar to that where this could be bad, because if she's getting over it, now you're all worked up, yes, you're bringing it up again, and now she's going to get all worked up and then just keep feeding that anger over and over again. I think a lot of that happens with very controversial, like Facebook or social media.
Charles:Oh, absolutely when people are just getting that yeah. Any social issues, political issues, absolutely Over and over again. Yeah, you, yeah. Any social issues, political issues, Absolutely Over and over again. Yeah, every time your phone sends you a notification. Hey, somebody else has commented on the same thread that you commented on and you've got to read it.
Charles:Yeah, it feeds it again, absolutely Okay.
Charles:Let's speak about advice again, and we got into this in the last episode, I believe, or maybe the one before that Unsolicited advice will never be as helpful as just staying quiet, adopting the position of I'm always going to wait until I'm asked for my opinion before I share it.
Charles:You'll never miss out on something important because you've decided to act that way. There's never going to be some great opportunity for you where you could have shared your opinion, and not sharing your opinion really cost you dearly. No, if you just adopt a stance of I will only share my opinion when it's asked for, or you can say, hey, I have some thoughts about this, let me know if you'd like to hear them, or something like that, you got to be real. You got to be real careful about the. I have an opinion. Here's what I would do if I were you again, because I believe all of us come from a place of trying to be helpful with that would do if I were you again, because I believe all of us come from a place of trying to be helpful with that. But yeah, just waiting until you're asked will never be a long-term bad strategy in my opinion yeah, yeah, I.
Dan:I for me, I think it's that might actually be easier than even asking hey, I've got an idea about this, would you like to hear? Hear it? Just, I feel like I don't know, I don't know, I just, yeah, I feel like just being quiet about it rather than I guess it really depends on the situation for me than how I think about it.
Dan:If I definitely have some stuff that I think could really solve the problem, I got to get uncomfortable enough to say, hey, listen, I've got an idea about this. Would you like to hear it? And be okay when they go? No, not really here's right.
Charles:Here's what I think you might find, and when I occasionally do this correctly, it always works out for me the time that you're most likely to get that person to ask for your advice or your opinion is when you start, with empathy, to say something along the lines of yeah, something similar to what you're describing happened to me and this is the way I felt about it. And then, very often, the very next question is going to be what did you do about it? Or how did you react to it, or how did you solve that problem? So if you start with the empathy of I went through something like that and here's how I felt when it happened to me, then that kind of revelation and disclosure is what's going to prompt the person to then say, okay, now I feel safe enough Particularly the woman in this example. I feel safe enough now that he gets exactly how I felt, because he's felt that way too. Now I can ask him for his advice and I'm not going to feel condescended to.
Charles:I like that. Yeah, I'm going to. I'm still on that, please do. Ok, let's talk about some of the listening skills that will ramp up your level of quality time with your partner. Maintain eye contact when really anybody is talking to you, particularly if somebody is talking to you about something of consequence. If Dan's just telling me about oh I was going to wash my car yesterday, but then it rained, so I hope it doesn't rain today, you don't have to hold intense eye contact for a conversation like that.
Dan:Tell me more about that rain.
Charles:Yeah, if it got into man Charles, I'm so frustrated. I want to take my wife out for a nice night on the town and I want my car to look amazing, but every time I set aside time to wash and wax my car, it rains and I feel like I'm never going to get around to doing this. Then it's an actual conversation about thoughts and feelings, and then it matters. And then you hold the eye contact. But, yeah, you don't need to do this. If you practice this during small talk, you might look like a crazy person, but eye contact during important conversations is important. Shocker. Don't listen to your wife and do something else at the same time, and this is immediately going to prompt pushback by some of you.
Charles:In the realm of listen, I can be on my phone and listen to what my wife's saying, and then I can even prove it. When she asked me if I'm listening, I'll repeat back exactly what she said. As dude, you are missing the point. It is not about I can regurgitate the words that you just said. Therefore, I'm listening to you at a level that I've decided is adequate and that is what you're saying, and she gets to decide what level is adequate and what's not. She gets to decide what level is adequate and what's not. She gets to decide and not as a dictator, where I insist that you behave this way. Look, if you're going through this book, if you're listening to this podcast, you've decided that her need for quality conversations is important to you, but it's only important enough for me to do it exactly on my own terms.
Dan:Good luck, yeah, I think that speaks to showing that you respect the other person. You respect her, and I think that's where you need to figure out what that looks like for her, so that she feels that you're respecting her when she's actually communicating with you because if she's not, she's going to be less likely to then communicate with you in the future and she's not feeling like that's a rewarding behavior for her.
Dan:Now you're encouraging her to not communicate with you and so the next time there's something wrong and she doesn't want to tell you, yeah, exactly, you really haven't made it a great opportunity for her or encouraging for her to actually be communicative with you, so you can't really complain about it.
Charles:Yeah, and look, if you take the attitude of treating these quality conversations or this quality time as if you're being forced to see a probation officer or you're being forced to attend an anger management meeting by a judge, look, by all means. If you're having to deal with one of those things and you're not into it, you don't think you need it. Sit there with your arms crossed, look around the room, don't pay attention. If it's really just I have to be in this place at this time to check off a box, then okay, fine, then just show up at that place, check off the box and be done with it.
Charles:But that's not how relationships work and if you take that approach to look, I said we would spend this time together, but you think I need to. That means I need to sit across from you, quiet, just staring at you the whole time. It's like that you're communicating that you're you don't have the right attitude to pull this off, and so you're just wasting your time. You're going to make things worse and be on the lookout for that, because if you feel like I'll do this but I'm going to resent it, if I can't do it my own way, then you've, like we said previously. You've got some other issues you have to deal with first before you're ready for this kind of book and ready for these kinds of exercises.
Dan:You'll do more damage, like you said at the beginning.
Charles:Absolutely, because, yeah, you're dangling the carrot of relationship improvement in front of your partner, but you're like, yeah, but I'm going to let you. You know my worst character traits and tendencies and unexplored, unresolved issues. They're gonna bleed into this process. Buckle up, it's gonna be miserable. Observe body language, he. And then he goes a couple easy clenched fists, trembling hands, furrowed brows yeah, those are the easy ones.
Charles:I wish it was that easy to read yes, but yeah, more more subtle body language is going to tell you how engaged your partner is, and it's also going to tell your partner how engaged you are. The goal here is to if you're having a quality conversation with somebody, you're going to be curious and you're going to be excited to hear what comes next, because it's going to give you information that you actually want. And if you can't approach it with that attitude, then again you're just setting yourself up for some disasters.
Dan:I think a good mindset to go in to any of these important conversations is that there's going to be a lot of information, both verbal and nonverbal, that will mostly nonverbal, that will be communicated to you, and you really need to pay attention to the fire hose of information, literally of that will be coming at you and use that for building your building a better response, building a better relationship. Ultimately, because you now have access to information that you didn't even realize may have been there to begin with. Because you now have access to information that you didn't even realize may have been there to begin with.
Charles:Yeah, and you don't have to attack this. You don't go at it like you're a robot where I have to just check off the. Okay, I got to ask 18 follow-up questions or it won't be quality time. It's listen to what your partner is telling you, and if it's something that she seems particularly emotional about, then you're going to want to drill down for more information. You're going to want to say things, thank you, that you just happen to find interesting. You can ask follow-up questions about that too. It doesn't have to all be. My mission is to make her feel it's like she's going to get into some topics that will probably be of low interest to you but high interest to her. So you're going to have to say, okay, I've got some work to do here. I've got to get interested in this thing because it matters to her. There's going to be something she brings up that you're legitimately interested in you want to know more about, and those are going to be easy for you to ask follow up questions, yeah.
Dan:And, on the flip side, as you ask those follow up questions on the things that you're legitimately interested in, you are then revealing more of yourself and who you are Exactly.
Charles:Yes.
Dan:To her. So she's going to absolutely get to know you better, feel closer and more connected to you, because now she knows what's interesting to you.
Charles:Yes, and there is a tendency by some of us to don't use that as a way to hijack the conversation and make it about you. I'm talking to myself here as much as anybody where, yeah, I've seen there's a meme for everything, and I saw a meme about that. Where it's oh, that's such an interesting story, now why don't we listen to mine? It's about me and thereby more interesting. It's okay. I've been through something like that and obviously, since I'm the main character, my version of it is going to be way more compelling than yours. And so just be careful about making and that's one of the things on dating sites and dating accounts and dating subreddits where women will often complain about that where, like, they mention something that they're interested in or experience they had, and then the guy will sometimes use that, oh, I've got knowledge, experience, whatever in this area, and I think, and you should share that, but you should not then make the entire evening or the conversation just about you and your experience what, what I've seen a lot of guys do more than anybody else.
Dan:Honestly, I'm going to stereotype here is the one-up guy and when, when guys are hanging out with themselves, that's a way of us competing with each other a little bit as well, and so we can take that into. Unfortunately, we can take that into other conversations with you know, with our partners, and things like that, where now it's just oh, and now yeah, you're, you're playing, mr One-up guy.
Charles:Yeah, and look, that's not attractive in a group of all guys and it's very obvious, by the way. Yes, it's still, it turns us off when we're in a. It's yeah, when a guy takes that of. Oh, you've done that. Let me tell you about my story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what watch out for if you have the tendency to do that? Number one, acknowledge that you have the tendency to do that and see that as an area for growth, as I have where, yeah, that that is definitely something that I could let myself get into if I don't pay attention.
Charles:Okay, he does get into a section here about to be able to reveal and play that sort of tennis match in these deep conversations. You do have to reveal things about yourself and your feelings, and the only way you can do that is if you have some capacity to know what you're feeling at a given time. And then he goes through and offers some advice on how you can do that. He says checking in with yourself three times a day to say what feelings have I experienced in the last few hours, or what am I feeling right now. And again, I'll make another argument for the wonderful app called how we feel, where you can set reminders. Mine goes off twice a day to say hey Charles, how are you feeling right now, what are you feeling? And it gives me the, the four quadrants where I can pick what my current experience is. It's called how we feel. Yes, I can know where I am, what I'm doing, who I'm doing it with. And then the last screen, before you actually lock it in, allows you to do a little bit of journaling if you want to, and you can also share with friends, which is another valuable tool, and I will use this as an opportunity to tell everybody my code on the app. Again, it's called how we Feel, and you can be my friend on that app so you can see my check-ins that I don't always do twice a day, but I try to do it as often as I can 348-292. So if you want to be my buddy on how we feel, and you could choose on each check-in whether you want to share it with your friends or not. So if there's something you want to make a note of that you don't want other people to know about, that's a possibility too. So I like that way better than the method that he suggests of carrying a notepad around with you because it's just your phone's going to be with you, I don't need to carry another thing, and it's not like I'm doing long handwritten journaling. This is just me making some notes and then at the end of the week it'll send you a summary of here's all the things you felt. Here's what you were doing when you felt them. It's great. So how we feel, app, love it, okay. Yeah, get in touch with your feelings, develop a plan to understand your feelings, be comfortable with labeling your feelings, and there's a permission, a book called permission to feel. That gets into much more detail and I recommend that.
Charles:Okay, the purpose of this quality time is to experience things together with your partner. What your partner is looking for is that you're willing to do something with them that they enjoy and you're willing to have a positive attitude. Here's the thing. If the thing on that list is something that you can't maintain a positive attitude while you do, meaning you hate it that much, it makes you that uncomfortable. If your girlfriend's into rock climbing and you're scared to death of heights, it's going to be a negative experience for both of you and it's not going to help your relationship to do something that you hate. So keep that in mind and each of us will have to figure out where to draw that line of what I'm willing to do for my partner.
Charles:Because, look, it can very easily get into the realm of people pleasing and you sacrificing your values and your preferences in a way that you get angry with yourself and you get angry with your partner. So, do as much as you can to spend quality time with your partner and don't do more than you can, because once you start getting into that realm of doing things just because you think that's what you're supposed to do, then you're playing a part and that's not going to be. It's not gonna be good for your relationship, for sure. Yeah, and I think he's a little too quick to say do things that you don't enjoy. Okay, yeah, you don't have to enjoy everything, but yeah, don't agree to do stuff that you know you're not going to and you're not going to be fun to be around while you're doing it.
Dan:I would say, though, be open to the idea that maybe you don't know that much about that activity, Right, yes. Yes and not just go. I don't like it, I'm not, I'm not gonna try. Yes, there's absolutely.
Charles:There's two extremes that you can fall into, and the key is to not go into either of those where it's I will not do anything I don't enjoy doing, which in previous relationships I've really. I've swung to both of these where I've agreed to do things that I knew I wouldn't have fun doing and I've absolutely been completely opposed to even trying something because I thought I might not like it, and both of those are relationship kryptonite, so don't do them. But yeah, you just try not to be too rigid, but also don't try to be a wet noodle. You got to find that al dente in the middle, okay, so I do want to run through a couple things.
Charles:If you guys have a different schedule, where one of you is an early bird and one of you is a night owl, you can try to work with that and you should, however, set your alarm earlier or drink coffee to stay up later. Drinking coffee to stay up later. If you're an early bird and your partner's a night owl and you're trying to stay up late to do something with them, unless you've taken some real positive steps to make that happen like a nap, like sleeping later that morning, just the idea of, oh, I'll agree to do this thing she wants to do at 11 o'clock and I'll just have some coffee. Again, the positive attitude is so important. If you don't approach this thing with a positive attitude and if you set yourself up for failure, where your circumstances and your body will not let you have a positive attitude, it's going to be a disaster. So don't just willy nilly go into it like, oh, I'll just drink some coffee, yeah.
Dan:That's a lot of us make. That mistake is when we're thinking of these ideas right. A lot of times we've got the mental energy and the motivation when we're coming up with these Exactly Then you have to deliver on it and then you deliver on it. You're like it's a different world, You're a different person.
Charles:Yeah, I do the same. Don't do that to your future. Yes, exactly Whenever I buy a plane ticket that leaves the airport at 515 in the morning, it seems like a great idea when I'm buying the ticket and then I have to deliver on that idea right that morning of and it feels awful. Okay, sacrifice something you love to create time to share with her. Only you love to create time to share with her Only. Sacrifice something you love for quality time with your wife after you've already sacrificed all the things you just kind of like.
Charles:Okay, you know what I'm saying. Do not immediately because again, I do feel like there's a performative aspect to him saying it that way. Sacrifice something you love. It's like the stuff you're just mediocre on or the stuff you just like. Clear that stuff out of your schedule first, before you're sacrificing things you love. And he offers examples of Saturday morning golf game, dropping out of the church basketball league for a season and skipping a non-essential business commitment. It's like, man, I feel like there's a lot more low hanging fruit that you can clear off your schedule before any of those three things.
Dan:Right, and I I would caution and say, hey, make sure you have something else that you still love. If you're going to sacrifice something that you love, something that you do for yourself right, that you love you need to take care of yourself, because if you are constantly, if you don't have anything else that you love, that you do by yourself in your life, you're not going to get recharged, you're not going to be able to bring that your best self to those quality moments with your wife, and I don't believe I think it's a bs premise too that there's guys walking around with schedules where it's like, every eight minute of every day, I'm either earning money or doing things I love.
Charles:So if I have to spend quality time with my old, then doggone it. I can't stop earning this money, so I'm going to stop. Yeah, stop spending time on these things I love, yeah, okay, there's probably a lot of space in your schedule that isn't either of those things, and so let's be rational about this, okay, so make lists of our top 10 moments together as a couple. Yeah, that's nice. If you find it hard, men need to learn how to pay more attention.
Charles:If you find it hard to devote attention to a single thing, you should practice by listening to your kids when they're extra chatty, paying close attention to the sunday sermon from beginning to beginning to end, or listening to music without allowing your mind to wander, or you could do the one thing that actually builds your ability to hold attention, which is mindfulness and meditation. I don't know if, when this was written, we we still think meditation is evil. It's from the devil, and anything that has barely touches Eastern traditions in any way is not allowed because our pastors won't let us. But the one thing that you can use as a tool to get better at attention is mindfulness meditation, and it didn't even make his list, so this is copyrighted 2015.
Dan:So, and there are pictures of iPhones and stuff.
Charles:So yeah, I don't know what the current I don't know what the current evangelical thinking is about mindfulness meditation if it's a tool of the devil or not, but it is the most effective way to make you better at paying attention to things, so that's why you should do it. Yeah, and plus a billion other health physical health and mental health benefits. Designate specific times and places for planned togetherness. Yes, if you don't schedule it, it's not going to happen. If your wife is the one who's usually pressed for times, perhaps you can occasionally do one or more of her dreaded time-consuming chores. Now, listen to this list. Guys. Pay the bills, run the errands, put the kids to bed these are all things that benefit your entire household, not just your wife. So when you take them off her plate, we'll get into this. When it comes to acts of service doing something for your wife that she already does, that benefits you and her that's not a gift. That is not an expression of love.
Charles:That is you participating in the relationship you participating in the relationship and the household, and we'll get into that in more detail. Reminded that episode of the simpsons where homer is like, look, honey, I bought you a bowling ball for us. It's let's be careful about the favors we do, yeah, that are benefiting us in some way as well. Just, we'll get into that in more detail and I just want to blow through a couple more of these. Yeah, quality time will be an issue, if issue.
Charles:If you have very different interests and the example here was if she likes going to the gym and you like playing computer games, then your quality time could be strained. It's like, yes, it could. So, yeah, maybe find some things to do together, and I'll not go any deeper than that. Make sure all your time isn't swallowed up by your to-do list. Okay, so he's saying, basically, you're past the newlywed phase, you're trying to run a house together and so most of the time you spend together is about accomplishing business. That's where I love the idea of one night a week. You spend one-on-one time with your partner one weekend a month, either one weekend, or at least one night a month. Go to a hotel and leave your kids to themselves, to a relative babysitter who cares. But yeah, once a month spend a night away from home, and then once I would say once a year, as long as you can pull it off financially and I think I would cut what I had to cut to make this a possibility one week per year with your partner and nobody else.
Dan:And when you think about these things, a lot of people in my life who have families my sister especially. I don't have time for all this stuff. We've got to get all this stuff done, unfortunately, what you need to prioritize it right. So sit down and plan these fun things first and get them on your calendar so that all the other things fall around it Exactly Like paying yourself first.
Charles:You take that money for your savings first, and then you do your budget after that's already been accounted for.
Dan:You've got to do that with your time too, and all those other things. You're going to do much, so much better when you are exactly refreshed he does mention about surprising her with tickets to a movie.
Charles:Um, a move. Movies are fun. Obviously I love going to the movies, but for quality time you're just sitting there, both facing the same direction in a dark room. So if it's part of an outing, that's one thing.
Dan:Yeah, he actually did. He did mention that you go to dinner afterwards and then talk about the movie, I can see that, I can too.
Charles:But just you know, if you're whining and complaining about, oh, I can't find enough time in my schedule to have quality time with my wife, oh, I can't find enough time in my schedule to have quality time with my wife Again, if you're trying to make your house feel like a more positive place for self-care, the first thing you do is not burn some sage, it's clean up your mess.
Charles:And if you're complaining about I don't have enough quality time with my wife, the first thing you do is not buy tickets to go see a movie. You can go sit on a park bench and just have a conversation for two hours, and it's going to be a lot more return on your time investment than going and sitting in a dark room with a movie playing. So if you've got plenty of time, you want to make this one of the things you do, by all means do that. But I would not make it top of the list. Let's see, yes, spontaneous days of. If you guys have a work situation where you could both just call in on the same day and go have fun together and go on a road trip or something, do that. I've not been in a lot of relationships where both of us had the capacity to just say willy nilly, on the spur of the moment, we're just going to blow off work and go do something.
Dan:Yeah, that's well, maybe in advance you can say, hey, let's all, let's both take off next Friday and then not plan anything, and then wake up Friday morning and go. What are we going to do? So that's the way.
Charles:I would go about it. That's not bad. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's, then you can be somewhat spontaneous. What?
Dan:do? I feel like doing yeah, but then I could also feel like, oh, just sleep in and get lazy, exactly Because I'm exhausted from the week.
Charles:Right, we did mention do a book club with your wife. Pick a book and books you like, or exclusively books she likes. So go back and forth and don't make it all relationship books either, because that can be a little tempting. Oh, this is great, I will be able to make it fun too. So some fiction, some nonfiction, some personal development books, some histories, a lot of stuff.
Charles:Podcasts yeah, yeah, listen to a podcast together. Enjoy silence together. Share tasks like cleaning the house and talk as you dust together. Share tasks like cleaning the house and talk as you dust again.
Charles:Man, if quality time is at a limit, I would say do not jump to. Let's clean the house together and chit chat while we do it, because a lot of this is about undivided attention and about it. I, yeah, I hate when authors like seemingly conflict themselves and it doesn't make. Yeah, yeah. Again, if you've got time to clean the house together and talk, that's a good thing. Maybe it's better than both having your AirPods in and listening to different stuff. But, yeah, if you're just trying to get the ball rolling with a quality time experience, oh, let's just chat while we clean the house is not where you should start. That's not a high investment activity, in my opinion, or high return activity.
Charles:All right, I enjoyed this chapter. I think we'll have a little bit of fluff that we can edit out to make it a little more streamlined. But yeah, quality time is hard and when you have a partner that it's valuable to, you're going to have to make it a scheduled, repeatable thing that earns a place on your calendar to meet that need. And one thing I will say with quality conversations, how do you know when it's over? How do you know when you've reached the end game? Usually there's something along the lines of your partner saying I feel so much better that we talked. When she lets loose with something like that toward the end of the conversation, or I'm so glad we talked, or thank you for listening.
Charles:Yes or thank you for listening. That's when you know that you've done it successfully, and so when you haven't heard that, then it might be time to keep digging to say tell me more, I want to know more. How did that make you feel so? When I did, you felt y, is that correct? And that's the, that's expert mode. That's when it's real hard, when the quality conversation is about something you did that let her down. That's gonna take time to get good at, and I'm still not good at it. Yeah, it's, I want to build that skill, but it's a tough one. All right, thanks everybody. We will talk to you again on the next love language, which is going to be be receiving or giving gifts, and I've got a lot to say on that one too. Have a good one, take it easy. Wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.
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