Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
The Complex Love Language of Gift-Giving
Episode Summary:
In this engaging episode, hosts Charles and Dan delve into the intricate dynamics of gift-giving as a love language. They explore the nuanced ways that gifts can either strengthen or strain relationships, depending on the intentions and expectations behind them. This discussion is part of their ongoing series on the five love languages, previously covering words of affirmation and quality time.
Key Takeaways:
Understanding Gift-Giving: Gift-giving is more than just material presents; it’s about the thought and effort behind the gift. Charles and Dan emphasize the importance of aligning gifts with the actual relationship rather than an idealized version.
Potential Pitfalls: Gifts can sometimes be misconstrued, especially if they are seen as manipulative or disproportionate to the relationship's current status. The hosts discuss how this can particularly be an issue for women who might have experienced gifts as a transactional means to gain affection.
Thoughtful Gifts: The significance of thoughtful and meaningful gifts is highlighted. A well-considered gift that reflects personal memories and shared experiences can be more impactful than expensive, generic presents.
Financial Context: They touch upon the appropriateness of gifts within the giver's financial means, stressing that heartfelt handmade gifts can often be more valuable than costly purchases.
Authenticity in Relationships: The episode challenges the notion of using gifts as a strategy to win someone's affection, advocating instead for honesty and authenticity in expressing one’s feelings.
Memorable Quotes:
"All this stuff needs to be in proportion to the relationship you two actually have, not the one you wish you had or the one that exists in your mind." - Charles
"It's the thought that counts, but this opens with an awful story that has me infuriated." - Charles
"Gifts can be a tangible expression of the fact that you love someone, but they should never be a substitute for real emotional connection and understanding." - Dan
Discussion Points:
The Role of Context in Gift-Giving: How can we ensure our gifts are well-received and appreciated in the context of our unique relationships?
Balancing Financial Means with Thoughtfulness: How to navigate gift-giving when financial resources are limited?
Authentic Connections: Exploring the importance of genuine emotional expressions over material gestures.
Listener Challenge:
Reflect on your own experiences with gift-giving. Have you ever given or received a gift that significantly impacted your relationship? Share your stories and thoughts on our social media channels using #ComplexLoveLanguage.
Additional Resources:
Previous Episodes: Check out our discussions on Words of Affirmation and Quality Time.
Recommended Reading: "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman
Join the Conversation: Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook for more insights and community discussions.
Subscribe & Follow:
Don’t miss out on future episodes! Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with your friends.
0:00 Gift Giving as a Love Language
7:40 Love Languages and Relationship Dynamics
18:16 Defining Gift Giving in Relationships
Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles, okay. So this week, dan and I will continue discussing five love languages for men, and this chapter is how to become fluent in gift-giving. So this is formerly what I thought was my primary love language. Turns out I was wrong about that and we'll discuss why in the episode. I was wrong about that and we'll discuss why in the episode. If you enjoy the show, please consider subscribing or following us on your chosen podcast app, and you can watch our full episodes with video on YouTube. Thanks and enjoy. Good afternoon, sir. Hello Dan, how are you? I'm well. Me too. How are you Good? Thanks, there was something else I wanted to chat about with you. I'm sure it'll come to me eventually.
Charles:Okay, I bought a new backpack for my trip to Europe and I went with colors instead of just going with a black backpack. It's a green, a couple different colors of green. I'm hoping that will make it a little easier. I don't plan on checking it, but oh, I will check it, sometimes, like at hostels, where sometimes you'll check it in the morning and then go out during the day, then get it before you leave that town, and last time I did that in New York. They asked me what's your bag look like? I was like it's a black backpack and the reaction I got was oh so you got a green backpack for the people working at the front desk.
Charles:It looks good too. I'm pleased with the styling, the aesthetics on it. But, yes, it is also a Very generous of you. It's the green one. Yes, that will make it a lot easier for them to find it. And another Osprey bag. I love Osprey bags. I've got many Osprey bags. I've probably bought almost 10 of them over the years. Oh, and they are a very high quality for travel, backpacking, hiking, what have not, and, yeah, I'm excited about. And it's also made to fit under the seats of every, every airplane. Very important for you. Very important Cause I do not like, uh, paying carry on fees and I certainly don't like checking Uh, you are going to be leaving the country here soon.
Dan:That's exciting. It is For almost three weeks. Uh, yeah, it's uh a little bit more than a week away. That's crazy, it really is crazy. Yeah, yeah.
Charles:Flying out of uh Orlando.
Dan:Flying Orlando and I had said I was going to Paris directly.
Charles:We're not I forgot.
Dan:We have to stop at JFK first. Yeah and yeah, and we're leaving on Memorial Day. I just realized that. So we need to get there nice and early, because last time before remember we were traveling during spring break and we didn't get to the airport in time to account for all the people that were there, even at a 5 am flight. So we're going to leave nice and early. What?
Charles:time is your flight from Orlando leave.
Dan:It is? I'm not sure. It's not that. I'm just saying we're going to get to the airport.
Charles:Three or four hours I had it.
Dan:I mean depending on what time the flight is it's, I think it's in the afternoon, but our flight from JFK over to Paris directly is at 1230 the next morning, so I think we land. We land in JFK one or two something in the afternoon afternoon. We have to grab our bags, head over to different terminal, check in there because it's not a. There's no association there, so it's not.
Charles:Oh wow, okay, but we saved a ton of money by doing that gotcha, and so 12 30 the next morning like a half hour after midnight.
Dan:Yes, yes, so then yeah, we land, yeah, we land in the afternoon like 2, 30 in the afternoon, something like that yikes.
Charles:So you're gonna, you're to be in New York for 20 hours, something like that, no, no, because we land in the afternoon.
Dan:Oh, okay, you land. Okay, gotcha, it might be seven hours total.
Charles:Gotcha, we'll be at the airport and you're going to get a pass for the lounge, or what's the plan? No, I don't think so. I just got to sit in a chair for a couple hours?
Dan:Probably no. So by the time we get off the plane, grab our bags, head over to the other terminal. Grab something to eat.
Charles:Oh, you have to go through security and everything.
Dan:Security again. Wow, yeah, I want to give ourselves like three hours before that, so we're not going to have a whole lot of time. It's not going to be worth the lounge.
Charles:Yeah, cause you're going to. Yeah, you're going to wait for your bags to get off the carousel. Yeah, then go to the other terminal, go through secure, check your bag, go through security.
Dan:Yeah, yeah, you won't have more than an hour or two probably sit with a button and share, and who knows how crazy it's going to be, cause that's still going to be like ending with the, with the end of the Memorial Day weekend and stuff, so it could be a little busy, yeah, I think yeah, that could be crazy.
Charles:I hope it works out well for you. Yeah, fingers crossed.
Dan:So I did do a surprise upgrade for Hershey's. I know about it. That way I got an upgrade, for with Norse you can have a special priority line for check-in and boarding and it wasn't bad. It was like $15 a person, that $15 a person. That's not bad at all, and I'm like you know what, at 1230 in the morning after traveling, and we're going to be. I don't want to deal with any of that nonsense, so that's more than worth it.
Charles:I may have to look at what my options are for that and I can see it adds for them for other trips to where round trips to London for $290 and stuff. There's some pretty good deals on that airline and it makes me think I should go over there again.
Dan:Especially for the summer, yeah, when it's nice.
Charles:Yeah, but this year I've already decided not to do Machu Picchu this year. I was thinking.
Charles:Oh my my years. The rest of this year is just so jam packed between moving and other trips that I want to go on. It's, yeah, just trying to do Europe, try to do, try to do Europe and Peru within a month of each other. Yeah, just juggling those logistics and leave my cat alone for that much, and you know all that it's. I think I'll be happier if I just do one big trip a year and keep doing little trips, like I'm going to podcast movement and maybe the Tony Robbins thing, and yeah, I got. And there's another city I want to go visit the zoo. I may go to San Diego to check out their zoo at some point. So I got a lot going on and just trying to add another big trip on top of it.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:It was just logistically too much work. So I'm going to I'm going to skip it.
Dan:That's a good move.
Charles:Yeah, I think so. All right, let's get into the next of our love languages, this one. So far, we have covered words of affirmation and we have covered quality time, and this will be our third one, which is gift giving.
Charles:Yes and yeah, this one can be a little touchy for some people because of what they, the baggage that they build into it. It could also be touchy with some women, for the same reason that words of affirmation can be touchy, dating and courting popular, attractive women will sometimes attempt to both use compliments and gifts as a shortcut to build connection and intimacy. And so when you are a popular, attractive woman who has probably been good looking for her whole life, she can be somewhat used to men trying to use compliments and gifts as a shortcut to get close to her. And it can be a turnoff when, when somebody that she's not attracted to attempts to use that sort of thing to get into a relationship. Yeah, that's that can be touchy. I've seen it happen.
Dan:Yeah, I think my question is if the gift is thoughtful and not simply a dozen roses or some sort of like jewelry or something like that, if there's some meaning behind that, like there's some significance. Is that still an issue in your mind? A hundred percent, yeah.
Charles:Maybe worse, interesting. Okay, look, think about it. You're friends with a girl. She's in your friend group, you've got a crush on her and you think back to some thing she said once and make her a very elaborate handmade gift based on that and give it to her. This is all about your gifts and the actions you take, whether it's how often you're calling, how often you're texting, giving gifts. All this stuff needs to be in proportion to the relationship you two of you actually have, not the one you wish you had or the one that exists in your mind.
Dan:Okay, that's an important point to make. Yes, sure, with reality is and he does mention also in terms of the gift giving if you are out of alignment with the lifestyle that you have with your wife in terms of, or your partner, right, if, if you do really well getting your gifts from the dollar store all the time, is it going to cut the mustard. If you don't have a lot of money, then those things, those things are a little bit more appropriate?
Charles:Yes, no, absolutely. And I would say the better you're doing financially, the more value your time has, and so something that you make for her is going to be far more valuable than even an expensive thing that you buy for her. That's great. That's great Because, yeah, that's, and it it does. It is the thought that counts. But this opens with an awful story that has me infuriated. The very first part Eric spent a year in Kelsey's friend zone before she agreed to go out with him. This is classic church boy mentality that we're about to get into here and that I lived inside of for years so that's something they advocate is being friends first is that, what?
Charles:not only that, what? Okay, I'm not familiar. They, the friend zones, don't exist, dan. We've talked about this plenty of times. There is no such thing as a friend there. You never find a man in the friend zone who is not also a dishonest person.
Dan:What I was getting at was, in terms of what you say is very churchy and preachy.
Charles:Is that something that they are advocating for when guys and girls get together, that they should be? You know what I'm saying. Start out in that I would say that the church probably has a tendency to more, more than other social constructs men denying what it is about women that has them interested is certainly a thing Understood. Yes, being open with the idea of, wow, you are very attractive and I would love to get to know you more, anything that could even partially make any kind of a reference to having sexual interest, premarital sex, having sexual interest in a woman is looked down upon. So it's going to be. You know, yeah, so, um, yeah, I, I think this environment though.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, you're only in a friend zone when you have chosen to keep your true thoughts and intentions and feelings secret from someone. So there are no honest men in the friend zone. There are only dishonest men in the friend zone. Honest men say, hey, here's what I'm looking for, here's what I'm interested in, and then you give the woman the choice to accept or decline that and then, if she declines it, then you move on and pursue other romantic relationships that interest you. You don't take silver medals in relationships to say, oh, I want this, but you're not willing to give me this, so I'll settle for this.
Charles:And then, yeah, so in this story he's in the friend zone with his girl, takes her to a baseball game with this girl, takes her to a baseball game, catches a foul ball or a home run ball and then puts it into a display case, gives it to her. And because her love language is gift giving, she now decides that she is interested in this guy romantically. And again, this feels like an absolutely made up scenario, because that is not what happens and some of the language this probably made up scenario uses that is, is not what happens and some of the language this probably made up scenario uses is super cringy and not okay, in my opinion. If kelsey's primary love language had been words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service or physical touch, eric's gift might not or might have been met with a blank stare or a half-hearted thank you. Yeah, maybe, but eric rolled the dice on gift-giving and walked away a big winner. What are your thoughts when you hear that?
Dan:Yeah, so my comment in the side of the book here was really for that paragraph. In this fictitious scenario, really, if somebody went to all this trouble to give you this ball or whatever first of all, and if your love language wasn't gifts, you'd be like, oh, this, whatever, first of all, and and if your love?
Charles:language wasn't gifts.
Dan:You'd be like oh, this doesn't mean anything to me, yeah right, yeah, so that's really what I was confounded about, you're confused about, but rolled the dice on gift giving and walked away a big winner yeah, it's.
Charles:Oh, I've got this crush on this girl, so let me see if I can figure out what her love language is, and then I'll give it a shot and maybe she'll like me back. Is that what the purpose of this book is? So that you can learn about the different ways that people feel love, and then, when you have a crush on one, you try to figure out what their love language is. Then you change your actions to match what you think it is, and if you get it right, then congratulations. You want a relationship.
Dan:There's worse ways of approaching trying to get in a relationship with a woman.
Charles:It's hard to think of any worse ways.
Dan:Like what, not paying any attention to what she's interested in or how she feels love, right, where I think a lot of people will go on dates and talk about themselves the whole time. I've been on dates with women where they say, oh wow, you actually let me talk, you let me, you actually listen and let me talk. That's strange. I've never heard that. Yeah, it took me hours. I'm like, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I've heard that from from a few people.
Charles:I don't think that's the. Is that really trying, though? Heard that from from a few people. I don't think that's the. Is that really trying, though? Again, we're in a situation here where we already know he's got a crush on her and she doesn't feel romantically about him, yeah, and now he's strategizing how he can get out of that situation, out of that relationship.
Dan:I think this is very I can't get to that because I haven't done that, or yeah I don't know man, this feels very specific to like.
Charles:I want her. She doesn't want me. What can I do to make her want me? Yeah, it's what the pickup artist calls seduction. It's the same thing it's. I'm going to change my behavior so that hopefully she'll like me more and maybe agree to accept something she doesn't want right now. And I think it's super cringy and super naive way to approach that men approach their relationships and I think it's setting men up for failure the idea of I've got a crush on this girl. She doesn't like me, but I'll use the information from this love languages book and maybe I can get her to like me. I've never heard of that actually working in real life, whether it's with give, giving or any other love language.
Dan:Yeah, I'd be curious to hear if it has from anybody. It's an interesting thing, interesting question, interesting way to think about it. If next time I I hear about how people got together, yeah, I'll read the singles version of this book.
Charles:I'll read that Get together. It makes me think that the love languages for singles is probably also full of some cringy stuff. Could be Because I don't remember most of it. I read it, but that was years ago. Yeah, this does not sound to me like authenticity. This sounds yeah, let me do the right thing and I'll get the result that I want, and that is rough, okay. But then he goes on to say to be clear, the love between them is already already there. He's not trying to earn his wife's affection by buying her expensive gifts. So again, the internal conflict. In the same chapter, you told the story of a guy who was using his knowledge of love language to get the result that he wanted to create love. He rolled the dice. He won big.
Dan:You're using this language and it's yeah yeah, I think in one head he's trying to justify the purpose of this book and at the same time he's trying to say, hey, it's not all about the transactions at the same point, and that's conflicting with each other.
Charles:Yeah, I think it's written somewhat sloppily, as is some other stuff in this chapter where, when it comes to, as I understand it, I think he attempts to make the case to say receiving gifts or gift giving, as your love language is really about receiving gifts. This is not about your wife or partner. They don't feel love by giving you things. It's about receiving gifts, and I think receiving gifts would be the more appropriate name for this than gift giving.
Dan:Yeah For this chapter.
Charles:Yeah, all of these it's about. What effect do words of affirmation have on my partner? What effect does quality time have on my partner? What effect does giving gifts have on my partner? What effect does quality time have on my partner? What effect does giving gifts have on my partner? No, what effect does receiving gifts have on my partner? I feel like that's something that an editor should have.
Charles:It seems clear to me that we're looking at all these in terms of your partner. Your female partner's experience, and the experience she's feeling loved by, is not by giving you a gift, it's by receiving a gift from you. So I don't understand why they I I think maybe for emotional baggage reasons they feel like gift giving sounds better than receiving gifts, but we're still talking about receiving gifts over and over again. This chapter that's the language that he uses yeah, yep, yep, which is again it's another instance of what I consider to be disingenuous behavior. We know what's really going on here is receiving gifts, but we think it'll be swallowed and absorbed easier if we call it gift giving, and so, rather than just being completely open with what it is we're talking about, we're going to give it a more pleasant name so that you emotionally immature men who don't know how to talk or interact with people. You'll be able to get past it easier, and I feel it's condescending and I don't like that. Okay, but anyway, the point is this is not about spending a bunch of money or a certain percentage of your money or anything about money. This is about a tangible expression of the fact that you love someone and you're giving them a thing that they can look at and remember and touch and feel connected to that time. You thought about them and took the time and effort to get something for them and then give it to them. Yeah, okay, and I'm on board with all that. That's great. I understand that.
Charles:The issue that I have is he even one of the headings of this chapter is tangible expressions, and that's where I draw the line. Okay, if it's gift giving, it's because there's a tangible physical object that is tied to the feelings and the connection. And then later on in the chapter he starts talking about other ways that women will receive gifts that are like you spending time with her, you doing something. It's no, we already have those. That's quality time, that's acts of service. Don't confuse this. Just because you feel uncomfortable that some men might feel uncomfortable about their wife's love language being receiving gifts. Yeah, why do we have to pad this and try to make it so much easier to handle for people? Interesting?
Dan:Yeah, I didn't think about it that way. But yeah, I just kept coming back to what you know. Maybe this he's talking about the secondary love languages. Right, Because Right. But that's what this is. It's not a dialect of gift giving.
Charles:I don't believe it does. It doesn't seem that way to me either. And yeah, he says I think gifts may be purchased, found or made. Okay, perfect, that's it. If it's not something that you purchase, it's not something that you find and it's not something you make, then it's going to be not a gift, it's going to be something else, which is fine. But I think that we're right to be confused about this and feel like this is clunky language, that it seems like there's an agenda that is trying to be accomplished by recategorizing some of these things as gifts, right?
Dan:this is where he talks about the guy who wants goes to play softball oh, this, this story, and drives me crazy. And when his mother's wife, his wife's mother, passes away right, yeah, let's, let's talk about that guy.
Charles:What are their names here? Tony and sonia are their names, and son yeah, this is where the gift of self, or the gift of presence Sonia says to the author assuming that she exists in this conversation ever happened, which I don't believe. My husband loves softball more than he loves me. Why do you say that I acquired? On the day our baby was born, he played soft softball. I was lying in the hospital all afternoon while he played softball. Was he there when the baby was born? He stayed long enough for the baby to be born, but 10 minutes afterward he left. So the baby's now 15 and she's telling the story, I assume in a pastoral counseling session. Have you based your conclusion that tony loves softball more than he loves you on this one experience? No, on On the day of my mother's funeral, he also played softball.
Charles:Did he go to the funeral? Yes, he did. He went to the funeral, but as soon as it was over he left to get to his game. Okay, and then it gets even crazier. So he asks Tony about this and Tony's like, yeah, I knew she'd bring that up. I was like, oh, yeah, because she's been complaining about it for 15 years and you've never apologized.
Charles:I was there through all the labor when the baby was born. I took pictures. I was so happy I couldn't wait to tell the guys on the team. But my bubble was burst when I got back to the hospital that evening that she was still admitted into and she was furious with me. I couldn't believe what she was saying. The. And she was furious with me. I couldn't believe what she was saying. The best part. I thought she would be proud of me for telling the team again.
Charles:This is like bad sitcom writing. This is yeah. How can we write a story where some clueless guy does something absolutely ridiculous, so wild that the audience of idiots will think this is funny, and then just send the message of look how dumb guys can be, they're clueless, they don't understand anything and that's what this feels like. Somebody was a crappy sitcom writer and decided to make up this story to just look how clueless guys are. And yes, sometimes we are clueless but are. And yes, sometimes we are clueless, but we don't need these absolutely extreme, ridiculous, cartoony examples to understand. Yeah, sometimes we're clueless.
Charles:Yeah, and yeah, the idea that I thought she would be happy that I wanted to show the pictures of my newborn baby to my friends, I thought she would. And the same thing with the aftermath of the funeral, I thought she would want. I thought she would. And the same thing with the aftermath of the funeral, I thought she would want. I thought she'd be happy for me that I was blowing off some steam by leaving her alone on the day of her mother's funeral to go hang out with my buddies playing softball, like where's you know where's this coming from. I thought she'd be happy that I did made this decision. That was a hundred percent for me and zero percent for her.
Dan:Yeah, I see that a lot on television shows where they make the guy so dumb and immature that he's like a child, like a clueless child, and a lot of times now they're making the children like smarter than the parents and I just it's just weird stuff going on on these. A lot of these sitcoms and other shows that I've been unfortunately watching should these sitcoms and other shows that I've been unfortunately watching.
Charles:Yeah and yeah, when you behave this cluelessly, there's no studio audience that's going to laugh at it and you're not going to get an Emmy, it's going to be. Oh, I, I'm, we're getting divorced now. I get to see my kids every two weeks and she has half half my income. It's. It's not funny when you watch media like this and it's oh shucks, the super hot wife is going to be fine with the out of shape guy who's clueless all the time. Yeah, it's. Go try to put a 10 years of that into a marriage and see if you're still married at the end. And yeah, it is ridiculous that somebody who's writing a book that is at least psychology adjacent, if not an actual psychology book, is using examples like this. And yeah, we get to the. Eventually, sonia was able to forgive him and tony came to understand why his presence was so important to her. Is that the order that it happened in? Yeah, or was it? He figured out why this was a problem and apologized, and then she was able to forgive him. I don't see.
Dan:And either way, this is not the love language, is not gifts. Yes, exactly this is not gifts giving as as a love language.
Charles:No, if it is geez, is there even a love language at play here, when you can't decide that I shouldn't go play softball on the day my kids born or the day my mother-in-law?
Dan:is buried. I feel like you shoehorned this into this chapter to fatten it up a little bit.
Charles:Yeah, I, I agree it could be, because I think the whole section on the gift of self is just in there, because men are uncomfortable with actual gift giving being a love language that can stand on its own. And and look, I used to feel like receiving gifts was my love language. I don't think so anymore and I still have yet to take the full test, but I think receiving gifts, or gift giving as he insists on calling it, is going to be at the bottom or near the bottom of my five, because in my case, I don't think it was really about receiving those tangible think. It was really about receiving those tangible reminders. I think it was more about the okay, this person is willing to sacrifice for me and then that makes me valuable. That means they're willing to set aside some of their own time or money or effort, whatever, and that proves that they think that I'm worth sacrificing for.
Charles:And yeah, I don't know a lot of people whose primary love language is receiving gifts. I don't think I've ever dated or been with someone for any period of time. That was their primary love language, but in my case I and again, this is where I wish he would have gone into some explanation. Maybe he does in the original five love languages book. Why do we develop the primary language that we have Like? How does that happen?
Charles:What is the? What is the need that was met or went unmet in our childhoods that led us to be a receiving gifts person or a words of affirmation person or whatever? What's the? What is it that goes into this? I would love to have that information. But as far as he's concerned, if for an audience of men that's not important to get into and again, I don't know if the other books do get into that or if he's even qualified to offer opinions on that kind of thing but it's the kind of, it's the other part of the story that I wish that I had, that I'm not getting out of this book like at all.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:Yep, it's a little thin here, for sure.
Charles:All right. At the end of each chapter he's got this little phrase book where he gives some tips and all of them. I think some of these are decent, some of them are terrible. 12 days of Christmas is a thing, but what about 12 days of gifts for your wedding anniversary, your wife's birthday or mother's day or some other special occasion? Yeah, if that's her primary language, I could see the value in that. I really do. I worry about guys trying to use gift giving as a shortcut in their relationship of this is like feeling lucky that your wife's love language is receiving gifts and then I feel like that could be used as a bandaid to cover something Agreed.
Charles:A hundred percent? Yes, I think that's true. I would say that in a healthy relationship between healthy people with secure attachment styles, I feel like neither of them is emphasizing the giving or receiving of gifts or anything tangible that much. I think the other ones again. I don't want to say that the other four languages are better, but I do see opportunities for unmet needs, trauma and complicated mental health issues to really overwhelm the rest of the story when it comes to the giving and receiving of gifts I think gift giving is fine if it is, if it comes along with one of the other love languages where you were able to so.
Dan:For, like I said, I feel like this is, with these gifts and things like that is an expression of, maybe of love. I care about you, I thought about you, but I think for for it to be like a long lasting way for you to be able to either resolve an issue or reconnect, there needs to be more than just the gift that shows up there too, in order for things to be a little bit different in the future.
Charles:Yeah, I agree and I think yeah, just thinking that you're going to have a transaction at a store or gift shop that is going to transform your relationship, it's probably not the fix that you think it might be.
Dan:One of the things that I liked here, that he talks about here at the end are photos of things that you guys have done together or experienced together.
Charles:And I think that's great because it will facilitate a conversation and facilitate some good memories and some communication and connection in that respect, and it's not just purely just the photos that you're handing them and you're like walking away at that point, right, don't think so great. Give your wife the gift of a day when you know she's free. Take a day off and let her call all the shots for what she wants to do, or give her the entire day to herself. That's quality time or acts of service. That's not giving a gift at least not, though. Yeah, it's like you. You've already defined something very adjacent to this as a thing to do for another language. So why? Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me. I did see a creator.
Charles:Over the last weekend was Mother's Day and one of the people on Instagram that I follow.
Charles:He suggested that they do suggest to your wife for Mother's Day.
Charles:A thing you can do for her is, instead of the kids make you breakfast in bed and then leave you a kitchen that you have to go clean up or that I have to go clean up, give her the whole day off from being a mom, and that doesn't.
Charles:I could see there being some societal pressure to not ask for that as a mother, but that's typically what dads usually end up getting for Father's Day is some sort of a pass or permission, which I hate that concept of, oh, just go play golf with your buddies all day today for Father's Day and then we'll go out to dinner for in the evening, or something like that. But I'm sure there are plenty of moms that would enjoy the opportunity of. Unless you tell me, no, I'm just going to take the kids, we're going to go off and do something on that Sunday, and you can either go do something with your sister, your mom, your friend, whatever, but you're under no obligation to do anything that day, except what you feel like doing. And some moms, I'm sure, would feel like, oh, I just want to be around my kids all day.
Charles:And some would be like, oh, I just want to go sit at the beach alone and read a book would be like, oh, I just want to go sit at the beach alone and read a book, and so that's a conversation you could have with your spouse, your partner, around that time of year to say, okay, I know what Hallmark and the restaurant industry says we're supposed to do for you today, but what do you actually want to do? And they just do that for her instead of.
Dan:An idea.
Charles:Let's see there are some other ones. Oh, if you have an artistic bent, create a rendering of her in charcoal, watercolors, oils, clay or some other medium.
Dan:Are you?
Charles:just jealous because you don't have an artistic bent.
Dan:No, what Cause that? That did trigger me a little bit when I heard that and I'm like you know what it is and I'm like thinking, hey, if I was, that would be a great thing to do.
Charles:Yeah, I have had exes make me handmade things before and fortunately they were talented and it came out good. When I heard that they were doing that for me, all I could think of was what if either it's not good or it's just not my aesthetic and I don't like it? And now I'm in a position where I have to find something nice to say about something that I'm not into. Challenge accepted and yeah. So here's what. Why bring that up? Yeah, if you're a grown man and you decide I'm going to make my wife a sculpture of her face in clay and it's not good, and you give it to her, it's all right, congratulations.
Charles:Now I've I've also given you the chore of taking, of caretaking my feelings, where I made this thing for you. That's not all that great. And now you need to be nice to me or I'm going to lose it and I just yeah that, the idea of doing something like that, and oh, it's the thought that counts. I don't have that in me to the point where, like, I can so completely dismiss the actual results of this, to the point where I can simply take pleasure that you put effort into it. It's no, if it's not good, it's not good, and don't put me in a position where you expect me to pretend like it's good Again. This could be just me being a dickhead.
Dan:I think it just speaks to the kind of person you need to be with in a relationship, right? You're not going to be with somebody who won't be able to take some constructive criticism from somebody, right? I don't think that you would be with somebody like that. My opinion is because, yeah, because you want to be able to feel like you can be honest with them, and part of that means that, yeah, sometimes you need to be able to give some feedback, and I think that's important.
Charles:But I feel like there's got to be healthy people out there that this kind of thing just comes naturally, Like they're able to say, oh babe, I appreciate that so much. I appreciate the effort that you put into it, that you thought about me this doesn't look like something I'm going to be displaying in my office at work.
Dan:If it's something where she's just there's been like no indication from you that this is something that you would like or something that you're into and she's making the assumption that you're going to this kind of thing and I have had that happen to me occasionally where just there's you don't know, that feel like you don't know who I am, what I like, and you're just and for you to get upset because you took a chance on something that you really didn't even know about and you're going to get upset. I don't know. I feel like somebody, somebody I don't know. I feel like somebody who knows you is not going to try to get you. For example, at Christmas time, a lot of times my grandmother would send clothes from Germany and we lived in the United States. Their style was a lot different. I'm wearing it, but I never felt bad that I didn't wear it, because I'm like this is not something she knew I liked. She knew I liked Legos. She'd also send me Legos, so I got both. But I'm like eventually she stops sending the clothes.
Charles:Yeah, I'm just. I'm thinking about the-.
Dan:But if she had been crying about, it would have been yeah, I would have felt horrible, but at the same time, just I don't understand that it's not?
Charles:yeah, and that's what I was thinking about while you were talking just now. Is we again, you and I, we joke and we talk seriously about the differences, that, whether it's about a woman's appearance or their behavior, like I am attracted to women who are emotional enough that they cry almost every day. Wow, interesting. No, I don't like to feel like I'm the reason that they're crying. I prefer You're so picky dude. Yeah, the data woman that and I have. And yeah, like we're just going for a walk and we see some baby ducks and she starts crying. That has a whole lot of other features, okay, and attributes that are packaged with it that I find extremely attractive in a partner, and you got to take the difficult side of that with the positive side of that it's yeah. So I would say someone making something for me and me being as pleased with it as they hoped that I would. I would not see crying as any kind of an extreme reaction to that Interesting.
Dan:Yeah, look, I said for me. Right yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's interesting, that, yeah, huh.
Charles:It would still be an extremely uncomfortable reaction for me to deal with.
Dan:Yeah, that's probably why I wouldn't want that. Yeah, Because it's, oh my gosh, I feel I don't want, I don't want to see anybody cry, yeah, yeah.
Charles:And if I'm going to date women that react that way to things that I have to be okay with, yeah, oh, just because she's crying over something that I played a part in doesn't mean I'm a bad person, doesn't mean she doesn't love me. Yada, yada, yada.
Dan:That's a lot of work, you got to do.
Charles:It is, and it's a lot of yeah, because immediate distance out of a hole you need to climb.
Charles:Like we talked about in the last episode. My first yeah, when I see a person, I care about crying. It's okay. We are now on missions, make things okay enough that she's not crying anymore, and that's not what they're. What they're looking for, necessarily. They're not looking for. Okay, I need the circumstances that to change so that I don't feel like crying is the appropriate response anymore. So that's on you, charles. You have to do all the work to change circumstances so I don't feel like I have to cry. That's not what they're looking for. What they're looking for is okay, just sit with me for a minute while I cry about this and then everything will be fine.
Dan:Yeah, and that's difficult, it's been impossible for me so far. Yeah, and how do you not feel like you need to do all this work to change circumstances yourself, all these things that are because, in my opinion, opinion is an overreaction to the situation and now the burden's on you, and then, if you can't live up to that, which is going to be difficult, because she's got her tendencies, you're like setting yourself up for a no-win situation, almost. That's why I look at it.
Charles:I think part, part of that's difficult. I think part of the reaction that we have as men to crying women is because of the way we feel about ourselves when we cry. Okay, and how not okay we are with those feelings. When we're experiencing them first person, yeah. When we see them third person, we're like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't feel okay if I was going through that.
Charles:I would want someone to rescue me from those feelings if I was experiencing that. So now, therefore, it's my job to rescue her, because I'm so uncomfortable with watching her go through it, and so I think that's probably the root of that is I, yeah, when I'm having those physical symptoms of an internal emotional state, it feels unbearable to me. Therefore, I can't bear watching someone else go through it either. And, yeah, I guess the work would involve getting more comfortable with feeling those feelings and expressing them that way yourself, and then when you see somebody else going through it, you're not as off-put and upset and I think, and if yeah, and also I would say, also not feel the need to change things, just let it be okay with that yeah, it's a tough one, but yeah, so it's good.
Charles:it's tough from both directions too, because if you give a gift to someone who that's their love language and they don't receive it the way you want them to, then there are opportunities for losing control of your emotions, getting angry, getting sad, getting attacked, getting defensive. There's a whole lot of ways that making these efforts and try to make these connections to people can go wrong, and I would say it would be valuable to workshop some of those scenarios to say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to get her this gift, and here are all the ways it could go right. Here's all the ways that it could go wrong and here's what I'm going to if it goes wrong. Here's how I've decided in advance I'm going to react to it.
Dan:Yeah, I think when we talk about this with I no more, mr nice guy is not really being attached to outcomes at times, right? So this might be a good opportunity also to not be so attached to one specific outcome or reaction from her when you do give a gift and that all is contingent upon where you believe your value as a man comes from.
Charles:Is your value as a man found in your ability to give people what they expect from you, or do you have some internal well of dignity, respect for yourself, self-love, confidence, competence? If you don't have all that stuff internally, then yeah, whenever you try to reach out to someone in a new way and it doesn't go optimally, you're going to immediately hit that new way. And it doesn't go optimally, you're gonna immediately hit that shame spiral and then act out. Yeah and yeah, some of these things are risky and if you haven't done some internal work, it's gonna be tough for you to accept the disappointment of hey, I tried to speak to her in her love language and it didn't go well, so I'm never gonna do that again.
Charles:Yeah, I could see that being a an easy conclusion to come to and look honestly, people don't often listen to podcasts like this or read books like this because everything's perfect. You're in this mode because something's not working out and so you're already going to be a little heightened, a little activated, and so when you try one of these things and it doesn't go perfectly, yeah, you got to just have that attitude of I'm a scientist running an experiment and I will note the results and I will change the experiment next time, yeah, and I think also the we talk about the gratitude practice and being grateful of the things that we have in our life and by doing that regularly, it keeps in front of, on top of mind, all the other support systems that you have.
Dan:So if this one thing doesn't go out, doesn't work out so well in terms of what you expect for the reaction, at least, you were just recently thinking about all the other things that you've got going on in your life that give you that foundation of support. So I feel like it's going to sting a little bit less.
Charles:Yes, and if you could take value in the idea of I'm a person who tries new things that make them uncomfortable, and I know that those things will often go poorly and the other times they'll go great, and I am still the person who tries those things. I'm the man that tries new stuff that I'm afraid of how it might work out, but I do it anyway and that seems to be the mindset that successful people have. However you choose to define success, whether it's your personal relationship to your career, your hobby, your sport, whatever it is when you say I'm willing to try new things because I think there's a better way that I could be, then you're going to fail a lot and you're going to succeed some.
Dan:Yeah, yeah.
Charles:Cause. No, yeah, gift giving is again. This one is a little bit a little bit of baggage on this one for me, because I thought that that was my love language, because that is certainly how my parents would try to make me feel loved, and I think in some cases it was. Instead of giving me what I needed, they gave this instead. I got conditioned to think that this was my language, even though it wasn't and yeah, the not just the thing that they would give me, but they would give me the thing, and then they would give me the story on how they couldn't afford to give me that thing, but they were willing to sacrifice for me anyway, and so it was a baggage-laden gift, for sure, and so I got conditioned to feeling like this was my love language. I don't think it was. I think there were other things that I needed, but that's what I got instead.
Charles:So, after giving gifts, what comes next? Acts of service, my love language. Oh, okay, great. And yeah, before we get into acts of service, I will be ready to share my big five in order, and I'll have the printout sitting next to me. We can get even more into my dirty laundry, so that we have so far, all right, cool. Thanks, dan. We'll talk to you next time. Bye-bye. Wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.
.jpg)