Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Healthy Habits for Anger Management in Romantic Partnerships
Episode Summary:
In this episode, Dan and Charles dive into Chapter 9 of "The 5 Love Languages for Men," which focuses on understanding and managing anger within relationships. They discuss how mishandling anger can lead to significant problems, including arguments and breakups. The episode explores tools, strategies, and personal anecdotes to help manage anger effectively.
Key Takeaways:
Understanding Anger: Anger often stems from feeling denied something essential or given something undesirable. It's crucial to recognize when you are angry and understand that it is a natural emotion that needs to be managed, not suppressed.
Tools and Strategies for Managing Anger: Developing a clear sense of identity: Decide the kind of person you are and the behaviors you will not engage in, regardless of the situation. Setting parameters: Establish rules for how you handle anger, such as not raising your voice or avoiding physical confrontations. Using physical activities: Engage in activities like deep breathing, walking, or other physical exercises to help manage emotional outbursts.
Effective Communication: Agree on methods to acknowledge and discuss anger. Use tools like index cards to communicate feelings without escalating the situation. Seek explanations before passing judgment to ensure you have all the necessary information. Aim for resolutions that both partners can agree on and that address the root cause of the anger.
Building a Healthy Relationship: Regularly affirm your love for each other, especially after a disagreement. Understand that love and uncontrolled anger cannot coexist. Managing anger effectively is crucial for a healthy relationship.
Practical Examples and Anecdotes: Dan shares stories about how different relationships can trigger varying levels of anger and the importance of handling it responsibly. Charles discusses how feeling unheard or belittled can be significant triggers and the importance of addressing these feelings constructively.
Listener Action Items:
Reflect on your personal triggers for anger and identify strategies that help you manage it. Discuss with your partner how to handle anger in your relationship and agree on parameters that work for both of you. Practice physical activities or other calming techniques when you start to feel angry to prevent escalation.
Resources Mentioned:
"The 5 Love Languages for Men" by Gary Chapman
"Permission to Feel" by Marc Brackett
"The 5 Second Rule" by Mel Robbins
"Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before?" by Dr. Julie Smith
Episode Quotes:
"Anger is a natural emotion, but how you handle it can make or break your relationship."
"Developing a clear sense of identity helps you manage your behavior during emotional moments."
Next Episode Teaser:
Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll dive into Chapter 10, "The Art of Apologizing," and explore how to effectively apologize and rebuild trust in your relationships.
Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles, okay. In this episode, dan and I will continue to discuss the five love languages for men, and we're on Chapter 9, how Can you Work Through Anger Together? In this episode, we'll talk about tools and strategies for handling anger in relationships emotional management, setting boundaries, responding to criticism, taking breaks during arguments, conflict resolution strategies, anger as a motivator, a discussion on some upcoming episodes and other topics. Please follow or subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast app, and you can also watch full episodes with audio and video on YouTube. Thanks and enjoy. Good afternoon, charles. How are you? Hello there? I'm well. Thank you, dan. How are you? Hello there? I'm well. Thank you, dan. How are you? I am great. Any plans for the weekend? Might go to the beach, yeah.
Dan:Which one? Yeah, yeah, clean up the RV a little bit. There's a couple of things Some tidying up I need to do there and might meet some friends down over by Chase's.
Charles:Oh nice, yeah, you, I would go by your the office and see if they've got some local rv guy who lives there and works there and see what's going on with your lights, because, again, the right side never ended up going out with the light. Never really is right is the other side, and that's probably a fuse or something fairly easy that he can. Somebody can fix my oven isn't working either inside. So interesting, yeah, is your. Is that burners are working? Is it electrical or gas? Gas?
Dan:oh weird, yeah, huh so there's something that's not, yeah, connecting whatever, but the burners on top work so I don't know.
Charles:That is interesting, I wonder. Yeah, must be a connection. I'd be careful about that because it could be leaking propane. Yeah, so that's, I didn't smell anything. Is propane a smellable one? Yeah, it is okay. Yeah, I always forget which which gases can smell, which one you can't. Yeah, okay, let's. Let's jump back in. So congratulations to our listeners who don't like the banter. We're going to keep that to a minimum this episode. You're welcome, yeah, and secretly I hate you because I think the banter is the best part, but we'll try to help you with your problems. Anyway, we're going to talk about chapter nine of five.
Charles:Love languages for men is all about anger and how to work through anger and keeping in mind that, yeah, anger, the mishandling of anger, is a real source of a source of difficulty, a source of arguments, a source of breakups, and coming up with a strategy for how you handle being angry is one of the most important things I think you can do if you want your relationships to go well.
Charles:So we'll talk tools, we'll talk strategies and we'll talk encouragement. And one of the opening stories about a couple in this chapter is a guy who basically says I don't remember ever losing my temper before I got married and I can relate to that a little bit where it's in certain relationships, certain girls that I dated, certain partners I've had, it's like some of them was like we never really had much conflict at all and I don't remember experiencing anger at all, and some others I just felt, man, I'm walking around angry nonstop in this relationship and, yeah, it's, certain people will activate that in you more than others, but in any case, it's always your responsibility to to handle it in healthy and beneficial ways and, again, just not live on autopilot and just do what you feel like doing before, because then you haven't had the practice to manage it properly and you definitely have a thought about putting some tools or some sort of parameters in place to help you deal with it.
Dan:Because, again, when we're in the moment when emotions are running hot, our brain gets shut off, like a lot of times, the brain that makes good decisions, that part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex, gets shut off because we're operating on pure emotions, yeah, what they call the lizard brain, right? So I think this is good and almost in any respect to the same anytime you're feeling a lot of emotions, putting some sort of parameters in place to help you make the decisions that you want to make, basically manage your emotions properly, whether that's love or anger. Here, it's true, I think it's really important. So he goes through some of these tools and methods in this chapter.
Charles:And, as we talk so often, when it comes to good habits, the best tool that you're going to have is your sense of identity, of who you are, and in that you get to say to yourself okay, it's not just a matter of telling yourself this, it's also a matter of practicing it and making it a disciplined habit to say there are certain things I do not do or I do not say. Regardless of the situation, regardless of who I'm dealing with, regardless of how I'm being triggered, I simply do not do X, y and Z and that could be. I am not a person that raises my voice and yells at other people. I am not a person that hits other people. I am not a person that raises my voice and yells at other people. I am not a person that hits other people. I am not a person that punches holes in the drywall. And when you make that decision of this is not who I am and you reinforce that with your behavior over years and decades, then, yeah, when something really rough happens to you, you get to fall back on that identity of look, I am not someone that starts violent altercations. I'm not someone that punches holes in the wall. I am just not somebody who does that, and so you effectively are able to take those maladaptive practices off the table, because you built an identity where you're just not somebody who does that.
Charles:When I get cut off in traffic, I'm not a guy who gets out of my car and goes and knocks on the window. There's no way that someone could cut me off in traffic today. That would change me into the person that does that, because that's just not who I am, and learning to develop that around the anger you have in your close relationships is something you can do, and you can refine that and get better and better at it and more and more detailed, to the point where you're, like I am not somebody who relitigates arguments from the past when I get angry there's a big difference between that and say I'm not somebody who hits my wife when we get into a fight. You start with the big one and then, over time and with discipline and with practice, you can get that narrowed down, and narrowed down to the point where you're somebody who, like you, can make a list of all the things I don't do when I'm angry, even if it immediately occurs to me to do this thing. I just not the guy that does that. Yeah, yeah, and it's not just a matter of saying, it's a matter of saying it and practicing it and even giving yourself a little bit of a pat on the back when you do get activated and you choose not to do those things. You you get to say look you're, regardless of what this fight was about, regardless of what the outcome of the fight was, good for you for sticking to being who you are and who you want to be.
Charles:Yeah, and that's very important because for a lot of us, when does anger happen? What is it that causes us to be angry? And in my case, it's either I feel like I might be denied something that I need, or I might be given something that I don't want and don't believe I can handle. It's usually a matter of either you're taking something from me or you're refusing to give me something that I need, and that makes me angry. That makes me feel like I'll be treated unfairly or my survival's at risk, or whatever, and many of those cases that's not true.
Charles:It's just what the lizard part of my brain is telling me, like not getting what you need, or something that you do need is being withheld from you, or you're being refused something that you deserve and, man, I'm angry about that. For the most part it's usually not as bad as we feel like it is, and we can talk ourselves into recognizing that truth. Yeah, one of the things he gets into is a couple here where he says sometimes the wife would tilt her head in a certain way and stare at him and he said that look is worse than a thousand condemning words. What I see in her eyes is I'm sorry, I married you.
Dan:Yeah, and he talks about a disrespect type of and that is triggering for me with anger. Is that belittling or disrespect type of thing and that's very difficult for me to not for not react.
Charles:How do you get, how do you not get defensive if your partner, yeah, gives you a look or or says something to you where you have? You are interpreted based on either your choice in the moment or your life experience. You're, you're that, as I'm, better than you, and we both know it.
Dan:And to me oh geez, to me that's the beginning of a resentment, that oh for sure, not that I resent them, but that I'm feeling they resent me. Yeah, exactly, they don't respect me and now I'm a burden to them. If anything, right. And so now and how can your future be secure if you're a burden to them? And it's very difficult for me not to go? You resent me, I'm gonna resent you, or just cut, or just the emotions of a similar type of mirroring, of type of feeling absolutely triggers up on that, and when I was younger that absolutely was the case.
Dan:As I've gotten older, I realize a lot of times the way people communicate in, especially in a way where it's negatively towards me or in a stressed way. It may not have anything to do with me. They could have had a bad experience recently, they could be not feeling well, they could be stressed about something that they just haven't communicated to me. So my brain, to break up the immediate negative reaction that I might have, I try to find a question to ask. I try to just say, hey, what else could have caused this? Try to find a question to ask. I try to just say hey, what else could have caused this person to? Because normally this person doesn't act this way. What could be going on in the situation?
Charles:And so just by pausing and just finding some question to ask whatever that might be, is enough sometimes for me to just interrupt all of the feelings that are building up at that point, or at least slow them down a little bit and give me some time to think through the situation yeah, I like that and I think that'll be one of the six keys that we cover in this, in this chapter, and you and I have talked before about the importance of realistic affirmations and telling yourself things about yourself or the situations that you're in that you believe enough to leave open some room for growth. And one of those could be you know, when you're having an argument with your partner, you can tell yourself I am 99 sure that she is only doing this to hurt me and get under my skin and make me angry. And even even if you can just say 99% sure, that will leave you that one little bit to say there's still a chance yeah, I saw that one in a million talk that little chance to say maybe I don't get, I don't have all the information that I need before I act. And if you can tell yourself maybe I don't have all the information that I need before I make, before I act, on the way I'm feeling, that can sometimes open to a very wide door of lots of good decisions that you can make. But if you react to stuff in a way where it's I'm a hundred percent sure that she's doing this just to get under my skin and hurt me. It's okay. If you're a hundred percent sure, then time to get the nuclear bombs out because you're a hundred percent sure. And so few of us are ever, or should ever be, 100 sure of anything in our lives and we should always leave some of that room open to. Okay, I might need some more information before I choose to act, and that's very important.
Charles:One of the things he does talk about, which is something I certainly have experienced, is our spouses or our partners will often try to criticize our behavior and when they see us starting to lose our minds and go crazy, they'll point out I'm not criticizing you, I'm just criticizing the way you behaved or the way you handled this, and in my case, I immediately go to. But I am my behavior. Who I am is what I do. What I do, what I think, what I feel, what I say that is who I am. And if you're criticizing my behavior on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, whatever frequency it is, when it happens frequently enough, it's like I can't separate my identity from the things that I do that get under your skin all the time.
Charles:Yeah, separate my identity from the things that I do that get under your skin all the time.
Charles:Yeah, and that's where we as partners also need to keep in mind of.
Charles:I don't think it's our job to shut up and take it when our partner's doing something that either doesn't meet our needs or triggers us, but we also do have to choose our battles and understand who we're in a relationship with. And when there are things about your partner's personality that it's who they are and on a daily basis that is bothering you or triggering you in some way, you have to make this decision of okay, is this worth me bringing up and trying to get changed, or is this something? Is it a responsibility on me to decide I can live with this or I can't live with this? Because, yeah, there will be things about your partner whether it's little quirks or idiosyncrasies or values that they have that you're unlikely to just say, hey, could you please change this? And then say, yeah, absolutely A hundred percent, and then they actually do, because people are who they are and we have a great capacity to change things about ourselves, but we also have a limited capacity to change things about ourselves, so it's tough to know where that is.
Dan:Yeah, I think when people say, hey, I'm criticizing your behavior, not who you are, I think it really means I believe you can change if you want to, Not that you're stuck making that decision, but at the time you were making the best decision that you thought possible, and so I agree with you your behavior is who you are and at that time it was right. I think. If you are on the receiving end of that criticism, I think it's important to realize, hey, yeah, this is something that I could change about myself, but this is what I thought at the best time. And hey, do I think that I should have changed or done things differently, or would I still do things the way I did them initially?
Charles:that that is. It caused the issue. That's a hard question to ask yourself and it's a very hard question to answer, because very few of us walk around with this very clear line between what is my personality versus what is my behavior, and what are the things about my behavior that I can alter, modify, maybe smooth over a little bit, and one of the things that's just no, I can't. I just can't. I can't change, like there. There's some things about me with a former partner.
Charles:I love talking about what's in the news, particularly when it's something of a political or sociological nature, and I like getting into it. I like making my opinions known, I like hearing other people's opinions and I like seeing where we agree, where we disagree. And if you're with somebody where that more often than not leads to a fight, then you've got to decide okay, is it worth it to continue banging my head against this brick wall? Or should I say, okay, I still want to have these conversations with my partner, but I need to approach them in a new way? Or I need to find other friends outside of my primary romantic relationship where I can unscrew this valve and get to experience this with somebody who can roll with the punches, and even when things get a little heated or a little rough, they can still be my buddy after the conversation's over. And if you're like, no, I need, I need that in a romantic partner, then it's okay. Then it's your turn to say to them hey, I have this need. Is this something that you think you can modify some of your behavior to help me, or is this just no, the way you're currently bringing this to me there's not a way that I can handle not getting triggered by it. Either you need to change something on your end or not. Bring it up to me, because I can't change anything on my end.
Charles:Yeah, and those are hard conversations to have because it's hard to frame things in the way of this is something I need from you without the and if I can't do it, then what? Right, because there's that unsaid whenever you say I have this need or I have this boundary, the other person. If they get activated and if they start getting fearful about losing the connection or losing the life that they see themselves having and I've been there before where it's okay you're telling me you need this, and now my mind immediately goes to and if you don't get it from me. Then what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You got to leave me, you got to break up with me. You got to tell me that you don't want to have my children. Okay, so you're telling me you have this boundary, don't leave it open. Tell me the or else. Because that's the thing. Whenever you set a boundary for somebody, there is usually an unspoken or else attached to the boundary, or it's not a boundary, correct?
Dan:There needs to be consequences.
Charles:Yeah, and one of the things when you feel attacked when somebody, when you're not used to having boundaries set in your life, then you're going to feel somewhat attacked and you're going to go straight to okay, you're setting an ultimatum. What's the ultimatum? Tell me, give me the URLs. If I don't do this, then what? What are you going to do? Because you feel like somebody is potentially pulling something away from you that you think you need, and most of us get defensive when that happens. So knock it off yeah, that's really tough.
Dan:That's where I feel like having a third party, like a louise couples counselor yes, absolutely helpful. Yes, that, and I think, if anything too, hopefully it never gets the point of where it is so contentious that somebody's gonna be like, or what are you going to do about it? Versus. I'm not really comfortable doing those things that you're asking me to do. Is there a way that I love you? I want to try to make this work. I need to figure out how to get comfortable with this. I feel like a good partner would be like, willing to at least explore some options and want to try to get, and I think, though, if they're not willing to try to get there, then that what you were, just that scenario you were just talking about, or else that comes into play immediately. If somebody's not willing to work with you on something that is a boundary for you, then you're not with the right person.
Charles:I've been that not right person before. I've been that domineering immediately. Okay, you're going to try to set a boundary with me. I want to take this all the way to the logical conclusion and see what is it that you're really saying here? How are you trying to control my behavior? How are you trying to change who I am? And no, that's not the way that you're supposed to handle this, but I put myself in that position before.
Dan:And that's where it's a whole. I think art form in and of itself setting boundaries versus setting preferences right. So I think there's a lot of nuance there where I want things to be this way versus it's this way, or the highway type of thing, or if you're not going to meet my preferences, it's the highway too.
Charles:Yeah, learning what your non-negotiables are is really something you can really only do on your own, or with your own therapist or counselor or whatever. You have to come up with that list of look, these are the things, these are the preferences, these are the boundaries. This is what I'm what I'd rather not accept, but I'm willing to accept versus. These are the things that I absolutely cannot accept.
Dan:I would love for us to do a book on boundaries, because I need to get better at that too. Okay, yeah, and I think maybe we should try and find one on setting boundaries and enforcing boundaries and stuff, because, as I told you the other day, I refuse to take on books that do not have an audio component. I'm happy I'm on the same page, for sure, audible.
Charles:Yeah, just this morning, on the drive over, I re-listened to these two chapters that we did today and if I was forced to just sit down and open a book like that's self-care for men that was what we had to do. And yeah, the ability to prepare was definitely impacted by not having an audio copy. So, yeah, yeah, we can do boundaries. I'll try to find one that's relatively simple, relatively short, so that we don't find ourselves mired in a book about batteries for six months. Yeah, but I like that idea. That's a good idea, cool Cause, and ideally we'll find one that covers not only how to set boundaries with people but how to accept other people's boundaries when they set them with you. Oh, absolutely, and not feel. That's probably the most important part. And why are you attacked when somebody sets a boundary? You know, because a well thought out and set boundary is good for both people in the relationship, not just for it's not a win, lose, it's a win, yeah, and yeah, we'll. We'll explore that. That's a good idea, okay, we'll explore that. That's a good idea, okay.
Charles:So one thing he does say is that love and uncontrolled anger cannot coexist in a relationship, and I agree with that 100 if you don't adopt strategies for how to experience and respond to the anger that wells up inside you, then you're either going to be in a constant state of blowing up over potentially small things or misunderstandings, or you're going to be in a position where you just try to bury the anger deep down, and the end result is still the same it leads to blow-ups.
Charles:It's just a matter of are you going to have big, infrequent blow-ups, or are you going to have little, frequent blow-ups, and neither of those will contribute to the kind of relationship that you probably want to have.
Charles:So he gives us some keys to anger management that I'd like to go through and just touch on each of them as six steps. First is acknowledge the reality of anger, which is what I was just talking about, which you can't. You can't pretend that you don't get angry. You can't pretend that you're above feelings of anger, and you also can't pretend that every time you get angry, you're completely right and justified in doing so. There are going to be times maybe even the majority of times, that you get angry over things that your conscious, rational mind, looking back a week from now, a month from now, would say oh Charles, you didn't have any right to get angry about that. You've had a right to feel anger, but you didn't have a right to act on those anger feelings because you were wrong about what you thought was going on, because you didn't get that information upfront.
Dan:It took that time to actually feel that. He mentions the two definitions here. Yes, I like those. Yeah, definitive, where somebody's actually done the wrong action or distorted right, which is basically based on a misunderstanding. Do you ever watch three's company? Oh yeah, remember that yeah, it was.
Charles:That was. That three episode was a misunderstanding about something absolutely there was.
Dan:That was like the, the pinnacle of every single one. It was just some weird coincidence that that happened and with misunderstanding is where the drama came from, but it was a really popular show for a while that must speak to us at some level, that idea of oh, I saw something.
Charles:I didn't have all the information, I concluded it was one thing and I reacted to it based on my assumptions and then at the end I was proven that my my assumptions were proven incorrect. And then now I've got egg on my face. Yeah, now I'm embarrassed, but everybody kisses and makes up at the end of the episode. Yep, yeah, and so that's definitely At the Regal Beagle At the Regal.
Dan:With.
Charles:Larry With Larry. Oh, my God, and Larry did like his leisure suits? Oh, he did. That was definitely leisure suit, larry. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. So yeah, just know that you're going to experience both kinds of anger. Your partner is going to do things, probably not deliberately, but regardless there are going to be actual, concrete reasons for you to be angry about something, because either they made a choice that led to your need not being met, they didn't consider your feelings, they.
Dan:Yeah, something actually happened where you have a reason to be angry about it. And I would even say, if somebody does something deliberately, there's a reason behind it that you don't know. Oh, absolutely, especially if you were in a wonderful loving relationship with somebody, or even for a short period of time, and then somebody does something really deliberately to piss you off, there's usually some sort of reason behind it. And even then try not to react initially with going blown up, start thinking, ask some questions hey, what could have happened here?
Charles:You know, get curious or manipulative because you wanted a treat or you wanted a toy or something like that. And my argument to you was even if you're doing it because you're being manipulative and whining to get what you want, there's still a reason that you feel it's necessary to implement that behavior to get your need met. Right, and that's a perfect example. So, even when somebody is behaving in a way that you have a moral issue with, or you think, oh, this is displaying a character flaw, yeah, but underneath the surface they're relating to you in the way they feel that they have to, or else their need is not going to get met, always be willing to open it up and dig a little deeper to try to figure out what's going on, because on the surface, yeah, it's, oh, you're being petty or bitchy or whatever. But it's like why is it that you feel like your only recourse is to behave in a way that I'm going to perceive as petty or bitchy or whatever? There's something going on under the surface.
Dan:Every time, and that's the thing is, if you're not going to dig in a little bit and look for that root cause analysis, right, which is always the hardest part of closing the case yeah, absolutely Right. But if you can find out what that is, then your success for the future, or the success is a lot more likely to happen in terms of that person not behaving that way in the future, right, versus just the initial reaction or the initial response to put a bandaid over it or just deal with the situation.
Charles:Yeah, that might make things a little bit better immediately. But it's yeah, you're not inherently wrong. And it's only when people act on their emotions that we get to say okay, now you're intruding on the health and safety of my own life. So if somebody gets angry at you for something but they don't act on that anger and they calibrate their reaction before they act, then they haven't done anything wrong to you. And if somebody has not done anything wrong to you, they come to you and say, hey, when you did this, it made me angry.
Charles:I would say you don't get to respond in kind with angry actions of your own. At least you should try not to, because that is an unbalanced response. If somebody says, hey, you did this thing, I felt angry for a while, but then I decided you and I should have a conversation about it, and your response to that is to fly off the handle and be like how could you get angry at me over that? Then you've just done something wrong against your partner that they took the time and effort not to do to you.
Dan:That's not okay. No, you're basically negatively reinforcing Exactly, or you're reinforcing bad behavior at that point, because you're punishing the what you want, if you is, which is you want? That information.
Charles:If your partner sees that and says, okay, if I take the time to regulate my own emotions and come to you calmly, I still have to deal with your blow-up. Why don't we just go straight to the blow-up?
Dan:yeah, I've made an effort since we've been getting into some of these personal development book. Whenever I've had some criticism from partner my current current partner, actually I have the first thing I've done is thanked her for communicating that with me. Wow, and that's not been easy. I've had to take a couple of deep breaths, but by doing that I actually then get more information from her about the situation and she doesn't feel like she's at risk of making me angry because now it's not an environment where she feels like she can be more vulnerable. She's already coming to me being vulnerable, saying hey, did something wrong here and and it's bothering me, type of yeah, and so I really, and that's worked well.
Dan:Only every single time it's worked well and, if anything, it's also ended up resolving a lot of times, resolving the issue without and I don't know if this is good, but without me having to do much. Sometimes it was just her needing to just express to me what was going on, and then it doesn't come up again and it's dropped, and it's a little bit of a new world for me. I'll be honest with you, but I'm really seeing the benefits of just trying to encourage the communication.
Charles:Yeah, think about number one. Even if you're with a girl and it's her first romantic relationship ever, she's probably still already experienced a man who was not able to handle criticism, whether that was her father, her brother, her uncle, whatever.
Charles:So that we all have people in our lives that can't handle criticism, but when somebody flies off the handle at criticism and they outweigh you by 100 pounds and could snap your neck, that it probably does feel even a little bit more threatening to have to put yourself into that situation, right, no-transcript, I'm going to bring this to Dan. Then you drilling down for more information is the only thing you could do. That would say, yeah, you were unseen or unheard, and I'll go a step further and show you that you're not being unseen or unheard right now. You tell me more about how you felt, tell me more about what happened.
Dan:Well, in all fairness, at the time she I may not have seen and okay, yeah, but yeah, whether I don't know. So maybe it's a lot of times. That is the reason I'm saying this, because a lot, lot of times that is the case. I'm just not. I didn't pay attention, I didn't notice her reaction to a situation.
Charles:OK. So in this case, and whether it's definitive or distorted, the answer is still the same, which is be open to drill down for more information.
Dan:For me it's just lack of awareness. So so many times I'm like I'm not going through the day where you know, like an autopilot, I through the day where you know, like on autopilot. I think a lot of us do that right. So I think I read something about like 70% of our day is spent on autopilot. So there's a lot of times where I'm not picking up on things, noticing little things. That's not my attention. I've just realized that there's nothing wrong with me because I do that right. It's not that or that.
Dan:I don't care, I'm a bad person, it's yeah, I had a busy day or I was tired or whatever that is, and I was not paying attention. If somebody is going to point out something out where I could have done something better or differently, I'm going to encourage that and I'm going to just thank them for that and say, hey, tell me more, please, let me know. And it doesn't feel like I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, I'm hearing all this criticism and feeling great about myself. I am not. But I also know that long term it's going to lead to more information about myself, more information about her, and it's going to it's going to definitely build a connection and foster a stronger connection, because I'll be aware of it for next time.
Charles:Yeah, and there's nothing manipulative about rewarding what you want repeated. That is just how. That is how conscious creatures from, how all humans and animals work. Yeah, absolutely, your behavior is rewarded, then you're more likely to repeat it, and that's a form of communication.
Charles:Yeah as well, right, yeah, and you don't have to play any games. You can say say you can tell your partner that's what you're doing. Hey, I really appreciate that you did this. I want to encourage you to do this again in the future, because I think it works for both of us, and just be completely honest with I'm rewarding your behavior, because I would love to see this repeated and they would probably be like I want to feel safe to repeat this behavior and I'd like you to do the same, and then you get into a positive feedback loop instead of a negative one yeah okay.
Charles:So the other thing and this is something I felt he could go, he could have gone into a little bit more detail on step two, or the second key is agree to acknowledge your anger to each other, which is be ready to say hey, when you said this or did this, my immediate reaction was to get angry. Here's a problem. A lot of us fellas are walking around without the ability to know what we're feeling in the moment. Like I realized, I feel not good right now, but I can't even put as imprecise a label on it as I'm angry. It's just I feel or I feel, and sometimes that's all that. That's the only message that our nervous system is giving to our own, the front of our brain. It's just I don't feel good about this and we can't, we don't have the ability to go any more specific than that.
Dan:Yeah, I think the labeling comes from front. The front, the more modern brain, and sometimes those go that goes offline when our emotions are going through the roof. So you're right, it's. Yeah, the only way to define it is the kind of grunt that we're making, almost Right.
Charles:Yeah, and one of the things I I heard Brene Brown talk about was to almost have a mantra that you're willing to say to yourself in those situations where, either when you're feeling bad, either say unsafe, unsafe attack, or something like that, because when you start conceptualizing words, that brings in the front part of your brain that brings it into the discussion.
Charles:So we start feeling that way Okay, something's going on here where I'm I'm feeling either under attack or angry, upset, scared, whatever it is. Just engage the part of your brain that makes words and you'll be able to access more parts of that. And again, I highly recommend the book permission to feel, where that that gives you some strategies to be able to say okay, here's how I can start very broad and narrow in exactly on what it is that I'm feeling and that once you can label what you're experiencing, then you have some control to do something about it. But when you're walking around and you're angry as hell and you don't even know that you're angry and that's when you're, like you said, on autopilot you're just reacting.
Dan:It pops around the waves. Yeah, I think for me, logically, I think what would work best for me is to use the part of your brain that is most active at the time. So that's our lizard brain, active at the time, so that's our lizard brain. So for me that means doing something physical to try to get rid of the emotions or lessen the emotions. So, whether that's deep breathing, going for a walk, doing something physically active to get some of that energy out. Another option is a great book that I read years ago and I just was reintroduced to it the Five Second Rule by Mel Robbins. She talks about anytime you're feeling anything off, count the five, five, four, three, two, one, and that also can help change the thoughts in your brain. She talks about it also for anxiety and stuff like that. Before you give a talk, before you go talk to somebody that is important you don't engage the front part of your brain, you just say five, four, three, two, one and you go and you do it.
Charles:And so that might be another book we can look at down the road, but a lot of really great simple tools. I've not read any of her stuff, but I follow her on social media and she posts a lot of good content. One of the things I think it's Dr Julie talks about as a strategy for mitigating anxiety. I believe the. Is it like the four corner or the squared breathing? Yeah, like, anywhere you are, you can almost put your eyes on something that is square, rectangular in shape.
Dan:Engaging all that physical. That's another great technique, Absolutely.
Charles:I use that one fairly frequently when I'm feeling anxious or confused or just not like I'm ready to react to something. At my best then just tracing that line and it helps Somehow it helps. And, yeah, I definitely recommend that. Oh, Dr Julie announced yesterday on social media she has breast cancer.
Dan:Oh no.
Charles:Yeah, and she doesn't share a lot of personal stuff on her social media, but she did share that it's, I believe, early stage and she said there's some statistics. She cited that most people, when they are screening themselves and they realize that there's a problem, wait three months before they actually go to a healthcare provider After they've found something problematic. They wait all this time before they actually do anything about it Makes sense people They'll maybe look wrong about it.
Charles:Yeah, and yeah, she shared it in an effort to encourage people that number one screen yourself. And number two when you see something of concern, immediately go address it. I wish it her the best Cause. She's one of my favorite people, certainly my favorite author that we've covered on this show. Sure, and yeah, I hope everything works out with her. But yeah, if you haven't read, why has nobody told me this before? We said on a not too long ago it's the only book we've done on this show that I have not had some beef with.
Dan:It's a wonderful. It's like a toolbox.
Charles:It really is. It's just it's flawless one too. Yeah, like I cannot pick out stuff.
Dan:Effective short succinct pointed yeah.
Charles:Great, great, I got real world strategies, not a bunch of theory.
Dan:I bought six of them for Christmas and gave them out to friends and family.
Charles:One of the best books I've ever read. I'm happy that it came to me through a former partner that's how I found out about it and then I pass it off to you and we're evangelizing everybody into Dr Julie, and I believe she also mentioned that video. She's got a second book that's going to come out soon. Excellent, yeah, so I'll be in line to buy that. Sure, yeah, okay, yeah. The key here is be okay with someone, whether that's yourself or someone else, saying I felt angry about this. Because if your partner comes to you with a I felt angry about this and your immediate reaction is something negative, then you're teaching her that it's not okay to tell you that she's angry. And when it's not okay to tell you that she's angry, and when it's not okay to tell you that she's angry, that's not going to stop her from feeling or getting angry. All that's going to stop her from doing is telling you about it.
Dan:Something that might help is when somebody comes to you and says that try to remember that it may not all be your fault. There's other things going on in the world her world that may have, and even if she thinks it's all your fault, that might not also be the truth. Just realize that if somebody tells you that they're angry about something, you got to play detective, put on your hat and figure out, get more information about the situation from her, everything else and it may not be your fault, and don't just assume that it is. And just that's just as much of a mistake to me as it is to to assume you know what happened. Right? You're basically saying you know what happened. If you're going to assume it's your fault, so you can't possibly know that it's your fault or all your fault anyway, because you don't know exactly what happened until you get more information. I don't know if that helps at all, but it helps.
Charles:That's. That is one of the hardest things for me to do, and if there's anybody out there who operates like me, first of all condolences. Second, it is just yeah, I, the mix of my biology, my childhood experiences, fill in the the blank. Whatever it is that, it is a lot of the time I only feel safe when I feel like I'm in complete control yeah and I'm only in complete control.
Charles:If everything that happens in the world is my fault or my, it's either. If it's good, it happened because of somebody who did, I think, my positive episode. If, if it's bad, it happened because it's all my fault and I'm the one that made it happen. And so to look at it in that context of, yeah, the thing that she's bringing to me, that led to her anger, might not be my fault.
Dan:Or might not be all your fault. I'm going to throw at you what you've said a lot of times, which is take responsibility for your actions, but only take as much as appropriate Right, and you have heard you say that time and time again. So you got to remember that you are human, like the rest of us, and that applies to you too.
Charles:Yeah, I'm working on that. That is not and we'll talk about that a little bit later on too in this chapter. I believe, yeah, that is a, that is an intellectual truth that I stand by. But to feel it is different. Feel it and have it connected to your in the moment actions is that's where the work is like. Yeah, learning and believing the things that are true, that make you a healthier person, that's the easy part. It's the connecting that to the emotions that you feel and then letting that influence your actions in real time. Yeah, that's where the hard work is for me.
Dan:What helps, I found, is when I have a daily practice of reflection of the things I did that day. That is what helps me with that, specifically realizing, hey, like I didn't completely waste this day, I did all these things. Or when this thing happened, oh, you know what? Yeah, I'm partially to blame here, but I also, after 24 hours or whatever that time period is, I see now the other things that were at play, that I just was not, I had no control over, type of thing. And that's for me that hard, concrete evidence to say or show me that I did do my best, or maybe I didn't, maybe I didn't do my best, maybe I could have done something differently or better. But at least that is a little bit more of an accurate perspective of what happened for me and it settles me down before bed.
Charles:Yeah, I can see how that's helpful. I'm so bad at creating habits or rituals that require me to do something at the end of the day when my willpower is tapped, it's tough. For me too, it is. I can make a list of a dozen things I want to do every morning, and for the most part I could do them all, but man, when I have to try to create a nighttime habit, those are so hard for me.
Dan:What's helped me is move that thing that's difficult up time-wise. So I used to try to do it like right before bed, at 8, 39 o'clock, 9, 30. Didn't happen and so then I started to do it okay, I'll do it right after dinner. Didn't happen. So now I'm doing it as soon as my I'm done with the day for work, gotcha it stuff, I go and I do it there before I even have dinner and I sit and I journal. Yet the day's, the whole day is not done yet. But it's better than not getting it done at all. The huge happens to you at night.
Charles:You can put it on the next day if.
Dan:I have to. But that's the thing is. It's just, it gives me that little, that micro dose, more of energy. I've got by doing it at six or six thirty rather than seven thirty, eight o'clock at night. I'm still willing to sit there and do it. So interesting.
Charles:Yeah, I'll have to take that into account and see if some of my nighttime rituals that I'm I'm having I'm doing a poor job of of getting these levels if there's a way you can move it up in time.
Dan:Just I'm curious. Yeah, let me know I'm curious if that helps all right.
Charles:Key number three agree that verbal or physical explosions that attack the other person are not appropriate responses to anger, and that's yeah. That's a conversation that has to be had, because you may assume that you might come into your relationship with the idea of having a heated argument where you yell at each other. That's fine, as long as I'm not hitting you where your partner may feel like even a raised voice is not okay. That feels what drove. I'm gonna date you.
Dan:What drove me nuts is. I've had previous relationships where I know I'm not raising my voice, but then I'd be accused of raising my voice and then that would end up raising my voice because I'm like it's not what, like I know I was talking in a calm way and it was just like and it was what I was saying, not how I was saying it, but she's raising my voice, you're raising me and I was just, yeah, I'll bet I've been on the other side of that too, where I've probably accused somebody of raising their voice when they actually weren't, and it was just.
Charles:I think it was just. They were, I mean, like the decibel level of voice may not have gone up, but the emotion in their voice, emotion was making me uncomfortable. Yep, it was stop raising your voice at me, I'm not raising my voice. And then I probably put them in the same position where they started raising their voice because they were being falsely accused of it. So yeah, I've been on both sides of that one.
Dan:Yeah, For me. I think one of my triggers is when I feel like I can't communicate or they're not open to hearing my side of things. So that is shutting me down by saying don't raise your voice at me, even when I'm not. Now I can't communicate at all because I know I'm not raising my voice. So now you're just shutting it down. Yeah, and I, and that's hard for me, that would. That's been hard for me to deal with.
Charles:I've been on both sides of that too. I've done it myself and I've had it done to me where I'm not comfortable with the, with the real topic of what we're fighting about. Oh, so I'm going to attack the way that you're fighting, yes, and then. I okay, I've been there too. Okay, yeah, move the discussion off of the thing I'm not comfortable with to criticizing the way that you brought it up to me or the way that you're talking about it, and now we can have a whole second fight.
Dan:That's also miserable, but it's about something that I'm more comfortable arguing about than the first thing, and I think that's actually worse, because now, or like, you're almost attacking their identity in terms of the way they're communicating and how you're a bad person, and every back and forth moves you further away from the core issue too.
Charles:Yeah, I've wasted so much time doing that. Yes, a hundred percent, malarkey, it's the worst. And but yeah it. When you're in a conversation that you're fundamentally uncomfortable with, you will do anything that you can to move away from that, and that includes let's fight about this other thing instead.
Dan:Yeah, and for me it was usually immediately assuming that I'm in the. That's usually what gets me to that level where I get super offensive and you're right Like you're just scrambling to find anything else to talk about. You're not going to win this conversation, you're not good. It's not going to come out in favor for you.
Charles:Yeah, so that's what's happened to me. So what he does here and I've said this before I feel like one of the one of the skills that I think would have probably most positively impacted my most recent formal relationship was the ability to take breaks in the middle of argument. For sure, and yeah, it feels impossible for me to do that, man, man, it is so hard. And one thing I'd like your perspective on, because one of the rules that my ex and I both agreed to was okay. Sometimes one of us would feel the need to call for a break in the argument which good thing that should be done a hundred percent good thing that should be done 100. But in my case, I didn't feel at the time like I had the ability to say hey, I'm feeling like I'm triggered right now. I think we should take a break and discuss this later. Instead of that, I would just leave and slam the door. And, based on what he says about this, I kind of get the impression from chapman that he thinks leaving and slamming the door might be a better alternative to staying and trying to keep the blow up going.
Charles:Now, it's not ideal, obviously. In an ideal world, I would be able to say hold on, let's put the brakes on. I need a break from this, so I'm going to leave, and let's talk about this when we both calm down a little bit, or at least when I calm down a little bit. Maybe you're calm enough right now, but I'm definitely not, so I got to go. If you're incapable of that, what's a better option storming out or sticking around and trying to continue the litigation when you're activated? I don't know.
Dan:I, for me, my vote is for storming out by far, because clearly what you're doing isn't working and if you're at the point of where you feel like you want to storm out, so that means your fight or flight is super elevated. You don't do anything physically to relieve that feeling. It's going to come out in some probably some really bad things coming out of your mouth could lead to throwing things, physical altercations because you need to get that energy out. Or you've got that urge to get the energy out by walking around, by leaving and walking around, even if you're not communicating. That's what you're doing and that you're coming back or what. I still think that's a better move. Just exert that energy in a way where you're not going to hurt anybody else because you're leaving and you're walking. You're getting it out by taking the law Not ideal, and I've been there too where I have not said anything, I've just walked away, and it drove the other person crazy, like you can't leave them, and it's just like eventually I got to the point of saying I'm going to come back, but it was not easy for me to get there because I didn't.
Dan:I I wasn't aware of all this great information at the time, and so sometimes, yeah, it's just a little bit one of those ideally, it'd be like I need a break.
Dan:We'll come back to this yeah at some point, but I need a break right now. Give me a couple minutes and then walk out.
Charles:And here's a weird thing Depending on the exact nature of your insecure attachment, one of two things is going to be harder for you it's going to be harder for you to be the one that initiates the break, or it's going to be harder for you to accept the other person initiating the break and not chasing after them. And what he says here is if you walk out of the room, and you walk out of the room and you get followed, then you got to walk out the front door. And if you walk out the front door and you get followed, you got to walk around the block where it's. Yeah, sometimes you could be with a partner who, like your first attempt to walk away from the argument or the blow-up is not going to be successful and you need to be ready to keep on walking.
Charles:Yeah, and the only way that this works really is if you have the conversation when you're not in the middle of a fight. I was just about to say here's how this could look in some situations. Here's how I could be reacting and here's how I think we should both handle this when we're in the middle of it. Yes, absolutely.
Dan:That's, I think, really important. He talks about that as one of the other steps where, like that, you're going to agree to seek a resolution. So I think, knowing that is part of the whole process here that you're laying out, it could be easier for that the person to realize. Okay, when that person walks away, it doesn't mean you are giving up on the relationship or the conversation or anything else like that, where I would often go straight to me too.
Charles:Yeah, oh, it's over. Yeah, it's like I would catastrophize every argument to yeah and every walking out of the room that you were done with me and that's the thing is, if we're not communicating, that's an easy assumption to make where it's. Yeah, it is. The best plan is to have a conversation when you're not fighting, to say listen, if things get heated, yeah, one of us is going to walk away from this and the other one needs to let them and not lose their mind over it.
Dan:Right, and the other advantage of that is, even if you can't communicate that at the time, at least by laying this out in advance, their assumption might be okay, it's not absolutely, he's never coming back.
Charles:There could be a chance he's never coming back, but it could also be a chance he's going to come back and will in his own time and work on this resolution, because we laid it out as this is yeah, it's not that you can even have the conversation to say, listen, if we, if this relationship ever ends and we ever break up, it's not going to break up by me storming off in the middle of an argument and never talking to you again. Oh that's, yeah, that's great. Storming off in the middle of an argument and never talking to you again oh that's, yeah, that's great. That's never going to be if this ends. That's never going to be the way that it ends.
Dan:It's sad, though I think a lot of us think, oh, we don't need to communicate that. That's got to be obvious based on the way we're behaving.
Charles:But I think it's better to feed us. That's when I'm fed back of smokes and never came back back, so of course, we're going to feel like that's a possibility. That's on the table, right, yeah, which is crazy, but yeah, you don't know, we have to have that conversation and it doesn't even.
Dan:It could be anybody. It could be. It could have been a previous partner, not even their parents, but it could have been a previous partner who did that.
Charles:Exactly. Yeah, yeah for sure. And now you're sensitive to that, all right. Key number four agree to seek an explanation before passing judgment. The way I put this is assume that when your partner does something and you're angry about it, assume you know somewhere between 1% and 99% of the story. So it's not 0%, you're not completely 100%, your perceptions are not completely 100% in the wrong, that you have not come to a completely unrational, unreasonable conclusion that has no basis in fact. It's got some basis in fact, but it's going to be between 1% and 99%. You're not 0% right and you're not 100% right. You're somewhere in the middle, and the only cure for that is more information.
Dan:Here's something to think about that just occurred to me is, in this situation, when you're getting information about something that made you angry, you will never have a hundred percent unless you were literally there when this thing happened. And add in their head, which is freaking impossible. You're never going to know. And a perfect example is look at social media, where people post just like the highlight reel a lot of times on their day, or some they go the opposite the worst day of their life and they're complaining about that. You don't see all the in between. You don't see that they we retook this video, this picture like five or six times. Right, you don't have all hundred percent of the information and we seem to understand that, but yet we immediately go oh, I have the whole story and I'm going to make my judgments based on the limited information I have. So usually the longer you wait, the more accurate you're going to be, the better chance you're going to have of getting it right and reacting the way you want to react to.
Charles:Right. And the other thing is this is where you know rhetorical techniques like steel manning come into the mix, where you can say to your partner in this effort to get more information from them, you can say okay, dan. So here's where I think we are. As I understand it, you chose to do this because you felt this way and you thought the end result would be this. Is that correct? And then you say, yes, charles, that is a good summary of where I was at, what I was feeling, what I was thinking. You've got it.
Charles:And then I get to say, okay, based on us being on the same page about your actions, I'm still angry, and here's why. And then what are you going to say? You don't get to feel angry. No, we both already agreed that we're on the same page about what you were doing, why you did it, what I thought the result was going to be, and even though we're on the same page about what you were doing, why you did it, what I thought the result was going to be, and even though we're on the same page, I still feel bad about it. Okay, now we can move forward with addressing my feelings, because we both agree that I'm being reasonable and rational about this, and I'm agreeing that you are too.
Dan:And, okay, we agree with where you were when this happened and now I still have these negative feelings that I'm dealing with and if you care about me, your reaction is going to be okay, what can we do about that? Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that's you. That's really important is being on the same page with as much as possible with the situation, and that's how you do it. You say, hey look, am I interpreting the situation correctly in your eyes and your mind by laying it out that way? Yeah, so if you don't have the same thing with like language, if we can't agree on what a word means, we can't have a conversation about it. Same situation.
Charles:Yep, all right, let's see what the next one, number five, is agree to seek a resolution. So, yeah, part of it has to be seek a resolution. So, yeah, part of it has to be. Okay, we have acknowledged up until this point where we are. We, we, both of us have gotten to offer our explanation and in this case, we both can at least see where the other person's coming from and we understand what the other person's feeling. Now are we going to do something to fix this or are we going to just say, okay, this is unresolvable and nothing good can come of us continuing to discuss this and I we going to just say, okay, this is unresolvable and nothing good can come of us continuing to discuss this. And I would say this is a relationship that you want to continue. You're going to say, all right, what can we do to make this better and what can we do to avoid this exact same problem, or something very close to it in the future.
Dan:Yeah, I think this is a good opportunity to remember to work on a solution and not on a winner for right. Exactly argument you and me versus the problem, not me. So get into brainstorming mode and try to think of all the possible ways you can resolve this and I think by doing that kind of helps you set your ego aside a little bit.
Charles:And yeah, there's always going to be somebody who's more wrong than the other person, or so and the other key thing there is to be honest about what resolutions you're willing to accept and follow through on and which ones you're not, because if it's hey, hey, honey, I'm angry at you because the way you interact with this one coworker leads to me. So I'm going to need you to go ahead and quit that job and go work somewhere else. And the answer to that might be no, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, what other? What other potential resolutions can we explore because I'm not going to quit my job and go work someplace else? Yeah. And so that's when you've got to be willing to say, okay, that's one potential resolution, but it's not the one that I'm willing to entertain. So let's keep brainstorming, because what you can't do is say, yes, I'm willing to fix the problem in the way that you want it fixed, and then not deliver on that fix that you agree to, yeah, but don't ever agree to a resolution that you're not willing to actually implement and follow through on and then finally agree to affirm your love for each other.
Charles:And that reminds me of what Corey Wayne says in how to Become a 3% man, which is, when it comes to a man having a conversation like this with a woman, the conversation is not over until you hear something along the lines of thanks for hearing me, I'm so glad we talk, I'm so glad we could work this out. If you're not hearing something like that from her, regardless of whether it was you who brought the issue up to her or she who brought it to you, the end result that tells you that she feels good about where you are now is her usually voicing some acknowledgement of I'm so glad we talked, we had this conversation, we worked it out, whatever. Yeah, if you haven't heard that, then there's a good possibility that she's not happy where things currently are. There's more work to get done, yeah.
Dan:That's a good opportunity to ask hey, tell me more. Is there? What else is going on?
Charles:Let's dig in a little. Yeah, are you glad we talked? Are you glad we brought this up? Do you feel like we got to a resolution or do you think we have some more work to do? What questions do you still have? Yeah, or doubts, and you have to assume that when you ask those questions, she's going to answer you honestly, because you have to.
Dan:I think it's important also to phrase things in the right way. So I know, when I'm interviewing customers for issues, you know troubleshooting their issues I don't ask do you have more questions? I say what questions do you have? And that I think I've gotten. I feel like I've gotten more information out of people by asking it in that way, rather than going, oh no, I don't have anything else.
Charles:Exactly yeah, saying I'm just assuming you do have more Exactly, it's very easy to set people up to make the easy answer yes, I'm done. Where you don't want the easy answer to be yes, I'm done, you want the easy answer to be no, we're not done yet, because then you'll get that additional information, that that you, that they may not know they need to offer and you might not know you need, but you, yeah, you want the to be. How can I make this as easy as possible for you to tell me that we still need to keep talking? Yep, yep, yep. Though look as guys it's. We look at so many conversations like a race where the faster you get to the end, the more successful you are, and that that's not.
Charles:This is the work, guys, exactly. Yeah, when we talk about, about, I'm willing to work on the relationship. This is the stuff we're talking about, not I'm willing to listen to an audio book in my car. That's the easy part, but the results you want are at the end of the work. You don't want to do so much of the time, and so keeping these conversations going is often the thing I like. He has this idea with the index card. Yeah, I like that too, which is essentially like a yellow or red card in soccer where, okay, something has just happened that is worth stopping the action over, and so I'm going to hold this card up and I'm going to read it to you, and we're going to let this determine the course of where we go next. Instead of the, let's just roll over this and act like it didn't happen, or react to it in the way that we're most comfortable.
Charles:Yeah, over this and act like it didn't happen or react to it in the way that we're most comfortable. Yeah, so what he says to do is to write down. I'm feeling angry right now, but don't worry, I'm not going to attack you. I need your help. Is this a good time to talk? Don't ask the question is this a good time to talk If in your own head, you know it's not a good time to talk?
Dan:Only take this out. When you're ready, modify it as you need. So it might be one of those where the first card is I'm angry right now. I need a few minutes. I we will come back to this and talk about it. I'm not letting it go. So that might be the the way and you don't even need to say it. Maybe just pass the card across the table of the verse and teach your your signal and say and then walk yeah, so you're at least communicating that way.
Charles:We said leaving, slamming the door is better than continuing to stay in the room and have your blow up. Sliding this card across the table is better than leaving and slamming the door, and just try to use the most healthy and effective method that you have availability to call on in the moment and my suggestion is maybe trim it down to the wallet size card Like credit card size.
Dan:That's with you at restaurants and stuff If you have to.
Charles:that's where if a lot of Vista just have 500 of these cards created, so if she's activated she could ball it up and throw it away and you don't have to write out a break to us and you know what I'm hearing our first mindfully masculine branded product.
Dan:Here we could make a little set of cards.
Charles:With our QR code and our little logo on it, yeah, and just slide it across the deck. Emotion management cards. Yeah, exactly, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, anger is not inherently bad. Getting angry over things that are unfair or unjust is what makes the world a better place, and let's not make the emotion of anger the scapegoat or the villain in the situation. It's just you get to choose whether to address it in healthy ways or unhealthy ways, loving ways or unloving ways, but you're in a throuple with your partner in anger. It's just the way it is. Anger is going to be part of this relationship. Can't get rid of your emotions, no, and the more effort you take to hide your emotions or pretend like they're not there, the choices am I going to have? Am I going to frequently address my anger and let it play a role in my emotional life, or am I going to try to tamp it down as much out, or do you, or do you want it to?
Dan:yeah, basically take over to the point of where, yeah, it's completely uncrolled, and then it does a lot more damage than you actually get that lasso out your partner can handle your anger when you bring it to them in a healthy and beneficial way.
Charles:There it's not your anger that they're afraid of or your anger that breaks them down of, or your anger that breaks them down, it's your unhealthy reactions by letting it just run out of control.
Dan:Yeah, think of it like a dog who hasn't been disciplined, right? You bring that dog out and you've got it's on a leash and maybe it's got a muzzle. It's controlled, right. You it's. People feel a lot safer around something yeah, yeah than a dog who just escapes from the house and hasn't been yeah, hasn't been taught behave, yeah, very well.
Charles:Very few people are bummed out or afraid of well-behaved dogs. It's only the unmanaged, undisciplined dogs. Yeah, that are the ones that people don't want to be around and get afraid of, with obviously very small number of exceptions, but that's generally how it works. Yeah, a dog who knows how to behave in public is a joy to be around. Yeah, and one that doesn't is a hassle. I think your anger is the same way.
Dan:Yeah, people. It's just more obvious to people when it comes to dogs that you need to put some time and effort into training them, managing them and controlling them so that they are able to exist in the world and not cause damage. I guess is the best way to put it Right. Why not our emotions?
Charles:Yeah, and let's give anger credit, and women and racial minorities have rights today is because somebody got angry about the status quo at some point, and they obviously there were. There were mishits and there were ways that it went well, ways that it didn't go well, but the ultimate positive result that we had was born out of somebody's anger of an unfair situation. It's a great source of motivation. Yeah, absolutely, and so you could do some great things with it. Your anger is not your problem, your unregulated. It's a great source of motivation.
Charles:The Art of Apologizing will be chapter 10 that we will get into next time, and I'm looking forward to that. And is that our final chapter? Do we have one more After that? We have Frequently Asked Questions. Okay, and then after that we have a 30-question quiz to help men figure out what their love language is. Yeah, got a couple more episodes to go and then we'll figure out what book we're attacking after that. Hopefully not attacking. Hopefully. More episodes to go and then we'll figure out what book we're attacking after that hopefully not attacking. Hopefully we can find one that we can pleasantly review, but who knows, odds are it'll be one that I'm gonna attack. Thanks, dan, we will chat with you next time. All right, talk soon. Yep, wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.
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