Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
The 5 Love Languages: Final Thoughts
In this final installment of our series on The 5 Love Languages for Men by Gary Chapman, we wrap up our discussion by delving into some of the most pressing and frequently asked questions about love languages. Whether you're struggling to identify your primary love language, facing challenges in your relationship, or wondering how to keep the love alive after years of neglect, this episode offers practical advice and personal reflections.
Topics Covered:
- Final Reflections: Our takeaways from The 5 Love Languages for Men and how it compares to other self-help books like Self-Care for Men and Atomic Attraction.
- Identifying Love Languages: Strategies for discovering your own and your partner’s love language, even when it seems elusive.
- Communicating in Relationships: The importance of understanding and consistently speaking each other's love languages to foster a deeper connection.
- Miscommunication Pitfalls: How misunderstandings about love languages can lead to frustration and resentment, and what to do about it.
- Gender Differences: Observations on how love languages might differ between men and women, and why it matters in relationships.
- Overcoming Relationship Challenges: Handling situations where your partner refuses to engage with love languages, and the role of professional help.
- Infidelity and Reconciliation: Discussing the possibility of rekindling love after infidelity and the challenges that come with it.
- Consistency in Love: The importance of maintaining positive behavior over time to repair and strengthen your relationship.
- Long-Distance Relationships: How to navigate the challenges of speaking love languages when you’re miles apart.
- Personal Reflections: Our hosts share their personal experiences and how they plan to apply the lessons learned from the book to their own lives.
Keywords: Five Love Languages, Gary Chapman, relationship advice, love languages for men, relationship challenges, infidelity, long-distance relationships, self-help, communication in relationships, gender differences in love languages.
Follow Us: Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow our podcast for more insightful discussions on relationships, self-improvement, and personal growth.
Welcome to Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles Alright, so this will be our final episode discussing the Five Love Languages for Men by Gary Chapman, and in it we will go over the last chapter, which includes frequently asked questions, and specifically we'll get into the topics of our final thoughts challenges in identifying love languages, communicating love languages in relationships, the impact of miscommunication, gender differences in love languages, consistency in relationships, handling relationship challenges, long-term love and infidelity, and practical applications and personal reflections. Please like, subscribe, follow our podcast in your chosen app and also check out our full episodes with audio and video that are available on YouTube. Thanks and enjoy Good afternoon Charles.
Charles:Good afternoon, dan. Yeah, we're recording this just afternoon. On Friday, the 12th of July, We've got one final chapter left to cover in Five Love Languages. The thing I like most about this book is how long it took us to go through it. It's not one of those things where we've been stuck on it for the last five months.
Dan:No, but also the content has been better than some of the other, yeah, than the one we just went through Self-care for men.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, I would say yeah, there's more for me to. It's more stimulating, more to apply to my life in a meaningful way out of this book than self-care for men. For sure, because there were, there were old chapters of self-care for men where I'm never going to use this information. Say, with atomic attraction I'm how is that collection of crystals doing? Or, even though I'm great, I still don't. It still doesn't exist. So the problem will be when I have. Hey, dan, I bought my first crystal today. That's when you know things are not going good for me. Gotcha, we're not there yet, okay, but yeah, we, yeah, you're. We already covered that. You're going to new jersey tomorrow. I'm meeting my new cat sitter on sunday, so looking forward to that. Um, gonna do some grilling this weekend. Gonna make'm going to make some kebabs, a little Weber grill, looking forward to that. So let's just jump into the last chapter, because I'm anxious to get done with it.
Charles:Frequently asked questions of love languages for men. What if I can't discover my primary love language? Okay, this is a make-believe question to me. There's so many. There's free quizzes online. There's a quiz in the back of this book. Just retake it a couple times and you'll see it. It'll be clear which one is your top.
Dan:And write different things right, literally. Go through and look at some of the suggestions and see how it makes you feel by these different things or getting involved in those, and that's what he said Expressing or receiving If you're having trouble, then observe how you most often express your love to others.
Charles:That wouldn't help me, because my go-to is not giving people words of affirmation. Second, consider what you complain about most often. Again, I don't really complain. Hey, you should be giving me more words of affirmation. I can't imagine a scenario where I would say that, scenario where I would say that and then. Third, think of the requests you make of your partner the most. Often it kind of goes hand in hand I'm not going to complain and I'm not going to, and that's something that maybe I need to get over. But you tell me, with words of affirmation in particular, feels to me like if I have to ask you to do it, then how much does it mean when you finally do Right, yeah, but you could say that about all of them, I suppose.
Dan:So if I have to ask you to do it, then it doesn't really feel like you're doing it for me so maybe the workaround is you and your partner go and sit down and just take the quizzes and then you just share the results with each other and then just see what happens yeah, that makes sense.
Charles:Yeah, that, yeah, I like that. Um, so the second we don't really I don't think we have to spend more time on that. Between all of the books that are available, used at the library, electronic versions, the free tests and quizzes that are available, just work it. Read the book, take the quiz and you'll come up with something. If you don't take the quiz again and try to approach the questions a little differently with how you read them and how you think about them, yeah, what if I can't discover my wife's love language?
Dan:get a new wife next question.
Charles:That was a short one if she doesn't have the time or interest to read the book. I'd suggest you answer variations of the three questions discussed in question. One like if you're in tech, if you're together, though, and you're like, hey, I read this book cover to cover, I did the quiz. I'd love it if you did the quiz. Or if you read the book and she's like man, not interested meh, m-e-h.
Charles:Yeah, exactly not interested then yeah, do your best, try to figure out what hers is. But that's, yeah, you've got a long road ahead of you. If you explain to your wife that this is important to you, you'd like for her to at least take the free quiz online, and she's like no, let's get time for that, yeah, I'm not interested.
Charles:I was like okay. And then I think what the author would say is okay, if your wife has no interest, then just decide to figure out her love language, speak it nonstop for a year, with expecting nothing in return, and see if it turns her around. Okay, that's the course of action. That's what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, and then later on in this chapter he starts I'd give it a couple of weeks A year, are you kidding? I wouldn't do it either.
Dan:We've got time for that.
Charles:If you're going to try to turn things around with no positive feedback for an extended amount of time, no, this. Either you've screwed up enough or she's angry enough, or damaged enough, or whatever. Bring in a third party. Yes, absolutely, get some, you get something. Figure, figure something out. Yeah, I'm not going to it If I told you that that was the cure for your physique or your golf swing or your career progression. Just invest the time with your eyes closed for a year and see if things get better. No, not doing it. That's terrible advice. Yeah, does your primary love language change as you get older? He's got three paragraphs that say no, essentially. He's got three paragraphs that say no, essentially. The way you hear or speak, your love language might change, but your core love language is going to be what it is and that's yeah. Does it work with children? Yes, it works with children. Does a child's love language change when they get older?
Dan:Again, not really what's interesting is he does recommend with children that parents do express their love with their primary love language, but also to intentionally, oh, teach them all five, teach them all five, yeah, so that they grow up knowing how to express that in each of the express love in each of the language. I agree idea because then they're able to connect better with whoever they have. More options, I feel like, for a healthy, strong relationship, because then they can recognize the other languages and then know how to communicate with them more natively right, yeah.
Charles:and and as they grow older, be prepared for the dialects to change, because the physical touch you give your kid when they're a kid may not be tolerant, may not feel tolerable for them when they're a kid, may not be tolerant, may not feel tolerable for them when they're a teenager. Yeah, they may not want the same kinds of hugs and kisses on the cheek and ruffling of their hair and stuff like they enjoyed when they were little. They're probably not going to like that when they're a teenager.
Dan:What's interesting. I remember he said but don't stop touching. If physical touch is their love language, don't withhold it. Look to see how you can modify it so like he's. I think he's like a slug on the shoulder or a high five or something like that for our teenagers, a little bit more tolerable than than like a hug, and I listen. I remember that even though physical touch was in my primary love language, I just felt awkward as I was getting older. Always, you know hugging, you know my parents or know parents or family members when I was younger.
Charles:It didn't bother me at all. Yeah, I would say, just be prepared for, yeah, the way that you express it, or the way they want that it expressed to them, is probably going to change as they get older and then, after the three, their teenage years, they may go back to some of the stuff that was cool when they were a kid. What if the primary love language of your wife is difficult for you? Oh, welcome to the party, right? The answer is you do it anyway, and you do it anyway by figuring out ways to make it repeatable and make it easy. A relationship is work. This is the work. Yeah, exactly, are some of the languages found more among women and others found more among men? Is the part that made me laugh about this.
Charles:The way his answer to this question starts is I've never done the research. Okay, you can stop there. I don't need to hear anything more. Let's I've picked that up already through this book that this is a book about anecdotes. This isn't a book about research. I've never done the research to discover certain love languages or gender slanted anecdotal evidence suggests that more men have physical touch and words of affirmation, more women have quality time and gift giving and we. But then there's something for it after that or something says but I don't know if it's have physical touch and words of affirmation More women have quality time and gift giving.
Dan:And we but then there's something for it after that, or something says but I don't know if it's statistically accurate, because you didn't do the research. Exactly Okay. Why are we even having this question in here? There was no answer.
Charles:This is the anecdote which it seems like, now that you're giving the quiz away for free, it would be very easy to ask somebody what's's your first name, what's your gender? Then look at the results and it wouldn't be very hard to be able to say gather that information. Very easily, I would say, but anecdotally. For me that sounds about right too, from the conversation I've had with guys. Most of them it's words of affirmation and physical touch, and for the women it seems to be quality time, gift giving not so much.
Dan:So I think there's also some stigma to admitting that's your love language affirmation and physical touch, and for the women it seems to be quality time, gift giving not so much. I think there's also some stigma to admitting that's your love language, yeah, and so much so that, like you pointed out, it should really be called gift receiving, because not gift giving, right. So he changed that for the stigma. But I think, for men, that physical touch, I think it's confusing what that means, because I think I know before I read this book, yeah, and we think that's what physical, right touch is in terms of communicating love. It communicates good feelings, for sure, but does that?
Dan:What kind of impact does that actually make? And that's not the actual right. So it's like we said, it's hugging, holding hands, it's a pat on the shoulder, those things like does that mean something to you or is that just like a informal way to greet somebody? Right, like how I look at it and because I used to think it was physical touch for me. But then I realized, yeah, I don't mind shaking hands and giving a hug, whatever, but that doesn't mean much to me other than just hey, I like you and I want to greet you yeah, I, I would say I still.
Charles:Physical touch is my number two and I think that's legit for me. But I do wonder how many times someone will casually bring up their love language in conversation when it's a guy and he'll say physical touch. And then if you say, okay, I'd like to learn more about that, but let's assume when you say physical touch, let's take all sex off the table, all foreplay off the table, is it still physical touch if you remove all of those activities? And then I'd be curious to see what most guys would say yeah, exactly Then how did you discover the five love languages? Is this really one of the frequently asked questions? I'm not so sure, but it's basically through anecdotes. I did counseling with people and I noticed a pattern that fit the model of five things fit the model that's easy to sell and so, listen, you got it.
Dan:That's the thing, too. Is, if you've got a service, even if people, even if you think it's valuable, you got to be able to sell it. Otherwise, if it can't get out there, then what good is it? Sitting in your basement, yeah, or in your head?
Charles:he pulled it off, you got the books, workshops. The pattern that he created or discovered has certainly worked for him. Do the love languages work in other cultures? The answer is yes, but the dialects are different, like the way that you can and do speak to people, touch people. Yeah, be very different from place to place.
Dan:Just think about the different ways people in different countries. Sometimes this can mean something different than this. It's depending on what country you're in, right, Of course there's going to be different dialects. Yeah.
Charles:And yeah, think about Asian cultures where you don't touch people without permission or in the right setting.
Dan:Or using the correct hand to shake hands Right.
Charles:Actually, some of those are a big deal, and so that makes sense that the dialects would change, but his opinion is that the languages don't. But again, he has not commissioned a study on this. Why do you think the five love languages have been so successful? I'm not interviewing the guy. This is not a frequent frequently. This might be a frequently asked question for when you sit down for radio or television interview. Yeah, television interview, yeah, as a reader. They're wondering this. Yeah, as a reader, I don't care what if I speak my wife's love language and she doesn't respond okay. So, yeah, this is where we get into some of the stuff first. First and most likely, you're speaking the wrong love language. You think you know what your wife's love language is and you're speaking it, but you're not correct on that. Many husbands will assume that their wife's love language is acts of service. I'm just going to work my way into her good graces, yeah that's, I think, a lot of men.
Dan:We've got the skill set in doing things.
Charles:Acts of service I could do for her that she can't easily do for herself. When I do them, she'll love me or feel like I love her yeah, and it's also easy for me to do them that too.
Dan:Yeah, I think that definitely.
Charles:Yeah, it's gonna influence your it doesn't cost me in the ways that I find the most expensive to do this for her, I will. I'll kill half a day detailing her car for her. It's easy to just think do the mental math of oh, I'll fix my relationship by doing more chores around the house. If it were that easy, that'd be amazing. Hey, yeah, in my case it'd be great if I could fix my relationship by bringing some guy and paying him to do chores around the house. That's not the case, and that was said in response to the idea that you think you're speaking your partner's love language when you actually might not be. So the part of this section is what? If I'm speaking her love language and she's not responding? You might be wrong. You might be speaking what is the easiest to speak instead of what hers is the most important to hear.
Dan:And the other nuance here is if you haven't figured out what your love language is, you might not realize that your giving love language might be acts of service. And so in your mind you are speaking love to your wife If you haven't done all of the work and realize there's a receiving, there's a giving, there's yours out hers?
Charles:what are your favorite ones to give to somebody? What are your favorite ones to speak to someone else?
Dan:the same ones that I like. It's literally speaking. Yes, it's words of affirmation.
Charles:Mine are completely different yeah, yeah, I would rather buy things and do things for someone where on my side it's. I want to get the first, get the words of affirmation and the compliments, and then second is have them initiate the physical touch. I see where. Yeah, yeah, the, it's funny. Yeah, the ones I would rather I enjoy doing for other people is buying them things, doing stuff for them interesting. Those are my two. So, yeah, mine, mine don't match up. The second reason she might not be responding to you speaking her love language this, this is a rough one is because she's already involved in another romantic relationship.
Charles:Wow, we went all with there Actually, or sexually, and she'll just kind of be like okay, this is coming too late because I've already moved on to somebody else. Yeah, her needs are being fulfilled Exactly. Somebody else yeah, her needs are being fulfilled exactly. And yeah, not only the needs that you neglected, but also that that initial rush that you get at the beginning of a new relationship, where you know, where you basically feel like everything this person is doing is directly filling my love tank, and that makes it very easy for her to perceive okay, this guy feels like it's about over and so now he's just doing this to manipulate me into giving it another shot or trying to whatever.
Charles:And that can also be felt with your efforts to try to. When you can tell she's got one foot out the door, it's like now I'll go to therapy, now I'll start talking to somebody, now I'll listen to that book she wanted me to listen to, and in some your partner could be right. You are, even if you're not consciously thinking of it of I'm doing this now to manipulate her and to give me another shot. That could be exactly what you're doing, and even picking up this book could be that Absolutely.
Dan:I think where you need to prove that it is not manipulation. If you don't think it is, the consistency is keeping up with it right, which is something.
Charles:It's just a one-time thing, and then you're going back to the same old, and you and I have talked about that on our special series that will release one of these days where women fall in love with you due to consistent attractive behavior and they fall out of love with you due to consistent unattractive behavior. And so, when you want to turn that around, what's the cure? Oh, I wondered you say I really mean it this time. No, the cure is also consistent attractive behavior. And what's the key word? And all that consistent and long-term and patterns, not just hey, I got.
Charles:If things haven't gotten too bad yet, then yes, taking the action of coming home. If you're, for example, if you're not a reader really, and you're certainly not a nonfiction reader you come home to your wife from the bookstore and say, hey, I got us this book. I think it could really do some wonders for our relationship. That could have a really big effect. Yeah, but if you've been disappointing her and helping her to build up resentment against you for months, years, decades, then something like that is going to be less impactful than hey, you and I had a rough month and I went out and bought this book. That could be a huge difference.
Dan:Sure, yeah, so it just depends on where you're starting from and how much further you need to go. This is the first thing that you're introducing. That indicates that you want to work on things.
Charles:Yeah, you got a little mountain to climb in front of you and that's really the same with any positive change right Starting out in the gym, starting out on a diet. If you've got a lot of work to do, then it's going to be a lot longer before you start to see the benefits, and that's just the way it goes.
Dan:Yeah, and the only way to do that is be consistent.
Charles:And you can't go big or go home attitude is setting yourself up for failure all the time. But there is. I believe that there is some positive benefits in saying, okay, I am going to adopt some long-term consistent behavior in very small ways, but I'm also going to kick it off by shaking things up a little bit. Like a lot of people that have success on the keto diet, they start that out with a fast or they go without. They pretty much don't eat anything except for drinking water or coffee for a few days to get into that position where you can get kicked into ketosis faster than just switching to eggs and bacon. And there is some benefit to say, okay, I'm going to kick this off. While my motivation's high, while I'm feeling really excited about it, I'm going to kick something off with some drastic, difficult behavior and then we use that to build up the momentum that I'm going to then say, okay, I'm going to keep this going with more incremental small behaviors.
Dan:I think I'm all for that. I obviously see the benefit because that gets you motivated, because you're seeing results immediately. So I think that's important to and it leverages your existing level of motivation.
Dan:Absolutely. I think it's really important, when you're ever starting anything to really get some benefit, that you're seeing as quickly as possible to keep going down Low-h hanging fruit Right, just with the caveat that if you know that then sabotages, because you know once you're done fasting, if you just start binging on carbs because you're been so hungry, you've been going so hard for so long, too long. As long as you, as long as you realize, hey, I'm not going to give up on the second phase of that process, which is eating keto right. As long as you're kind enough to yourself to realize, oops, maybe I overdid it a little bit, I went a little too big, maybe fasted a little bit too long and I lost control, and not just give up on the whole idea of the keto diet because you crashed your burn.
Charles:And bringing that back to the book and how we can apply that to something like repairing a relationship. It's you set yourself up for say, okay, I'm going to take my partner away for a weekend and I'm going to focus on speaking her love language for the weekend, and then you get back on Monday. So even if, when you get back, you feel like man, I still feel like I'm motivated enough to go at this super hard. Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday. Sometimes you have to tell yourself no, don't do that. It's like you did it for the weekend. You worked hard.
Charles:Now, on Monday, even though you think you've got more of this manic energy to really attack this, no, I'm going to dial it back to a sustainable level, and you should do that when you're eating too. Like you start out with a fast of okay, I'm going to fast for two days where I'm very highly compliant, and then on day number three, I'm going to go back to more of a normal thing On day number three if you feel like, oh, man, this feels great, I could do this for four or five more days. It's like sometimes you have to stop yourself and say I'm not going to do that, though I'm not going to go overboard. Yeah, because then you do work into that go big or go home mentality and then when you fall off the wagon, everything just goes to crap.
Charles:It's important to say, ok, if I am going to dive into this book and dive into speaking her language and filling her tank, I'm going to start out real hard because I'm going to try to jumpstart this process, but I'm not going to trick myself into thinking that, oh, this is my new normal, I can do this every day. Yeah, because that's when you set both of you up for failure, because she's going to be disappointed when it finally goes from a 10 to a zero instead of going from a nine to a five. Yeah, and so it. Yeah, I and I'm again, I'm mostly talking to myself because I have that thing where it's I'm going to dive into this and start and go really hard, and then at some point I'm going to start convincing myself that unsustainable effort is actually sustainable and it's not.
Dan:One thing that I haven't done enough of. Whenever I've tried something to implement something new and when I have done it it's been helpful has been to, before I even start, identify all the ways things could go wrong, all the obstacles that could come up and what my strategy is to handle them. And the few times that I have done it has been very helpful for me to stay on track and maybe start over again, get back up on the horse when things went bad, and I'm just throwing that idea out there, setting some intentions and then doing a little bit of planning ahead of time and say, hey, how could this backfire on me? And one of those things could be hey, getting her flowers five days in a row might annoy her. And not to give up on the whole process, knowing I'm taking a risk by going that extreme right instead of just one day, and then, you know, scaling it back, for example yeah and that brings up a great point that when you think about it, what is the what feels like the most negative aspect of disappointment?
Charles:oh, it's a surprise, it's when you thought things were going to go better and they didn't where. Yeah, if you make that list of here's everything that could go wrong and here's how I, here's how I'm going to try to feel about it, and here's I'm going to try to react to it when it does go wrong, then yeah, you, you've removed some of that emotional shock that you experience from the surprised disappointment and your past self has done a favor for that future self.
Dan:Now you've all yeah that, but you've put together at least a loose plan on what you should be doing. So when those emotions are running high from that feeling of failure or that mistake that's made, you don't have to then spend more energy thinking how to fix it, because your path self has already given you a couple of ideas. Right, doesn't have to be perfect, but hey and and at least it's a plan.
Charles:And in conceptualizing what could go wrong and how will I feel about it. It's almost like you've experienced some of those negative emotions in advance.
Dan:So it probably tampers down Exactly when you're actually going through it. I think it does. Yeah, it does for me, absolutely. We got to remember this.
Charles:We got to do this for the next thing we're trying to do. Gotta live by it too. It's not up to just say it. What are you talking about? My advice is for other people, not for me. Okay, so there are a couple parts in here where he says stuff that I think is a little wacky. The best approach you can take is to continue to speak her love language on a regular basis, no matter how she treats you. Okay that, okay that language is not okay, no matter how she treats you.
Dan:I think it's just sloppy and lazy to say that Was he trying to finish his book.
Charles:There are people in abusive relationships. There are people in emotionally neglectful relationships. If you try some of these things and not only does she not respond in the most ideal way, but she mocks you or she makes fun of you or she yeah then you don't need to end the relationship immediately but then bring in a third party, bring in a professional at that point.
Dan:That's an indicator. That's not a normal reaction. I feel right, right in in a healthy relationship where somebody actually cares about the other person. Yeah, we're not invested in working on it. You don't need to worry about what you just said, right, the mockery, or whatever, yes, but yeah, when?
Charles:yeah, when you do this and her reaction is not as positive as you'd like it to be, or even somewhat neutral, then, yes, keep your head down and keep moving forward.
Dan:But if yeah, that's a good way of putting it like neutral, or not exactly or not what you expected, right. But if it's an obvious like, yeah, a problem for her.
Charles:If this brings up some sort of hostility and prolonged hostility, yeah then, yeah, you need to say, okay, I'm trying to make an effort here to make this relationship better and it's like you're responding to that effort to make things better with some anger as that's not gonna, we're not gonna continue to. We're not going to continue to. We're not going to get on make things better progression if you're giving me hostility when I start this process.
Dan:And it goes back to something you were talking about before off camera. Was you're trying your best at this point, or you're think you're at least trying your best and clearly it's not good enough, and that's when you get the professional help.
Charles:Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's okay. Don't beat yourself up and look, that is something a lot of us run into. We try to solve problems created by our brain or our brain and our partner's brain. Like our two brains came together and some problems resulted, and so now I'm going to assume that these same two brains that got us into this are going to be able to get us out of this, and that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Charles:It's your problem solving skills, the way you relate to other people. That is what created this difficult situation that you're in right now, and those two brains that made the problem. Without any new information or new patterns or new people, they're not going to be able to solve the problem. New information or new patterns or new people they're not going to be able to solve the problem exactly. It's gonna you. You've got to bring something else into this equation, because if you try to solve the problem with these same ingredients, the problem's not going to get solved, it's just things are just going to continue and even it's not guaranteed it won't get solved.
Dan:But you are wasting so much time hoping you're gonna get lucky. Correct the permutation of how you're thinking and how she's thinking, without any new information're going to get lucky. Correct the permutation of how you're thinking and how she's thinking, without any new information, is going to result into something different. It could, but why are you going to waste time? It's precious. Go to a professional. Go to someone who's got the shortcuts, who knows what they're doing. Save you time and energy. Yeah, it's an investment in money, but you can't get your time back.
Charles:Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. So he doubles down on this thing we disagree with. Your attitude should be no matter what her response is, I'm going to love her in her love language over the long haul. If she walks away from me, she will walk away from someone who is loving her unconditionally.
Dan:I got a problem with long haul. I do too. I can understand maybe going at it and giving even a little leeway with the, no matter what her response is, I think, if she's so disgusted with you by your previous behavior, yeah, maybe it could be a little bit negative at the beginning, but give it a shot for a few weeks or a month, right? He said long haul.
Charles:Set yourself a goal of six months, nine months or a year, yeah, that's. And listen, if you've got a professional involved in the situation and even if you're just going to therapy by yourself, if you're not doing couples, if she's not going to therapy, you're going to therapy by yourself and you've got somebody in your corner saying, okay, you're going to stay on this course and I'm going to help you recognize signs of progress that might not feel like signs of progress and you're still getting those signs of progress, even though you're not getting exactly what you're looking for, then OK, maybe stick with it for six months or a year, but just, yeah, try to white knuckle it yourself, working yourself on this. When you're seeing no results for 12 months and then acting as if you'll have the comfort of saying I loved her unconditionally for a year and then she left me anyway. You're not going to feel great after that result happens. You're going to feel like shit when that happens.
Dan:Yeah, I think the detail that you just laid out is very important that he forgot to put in there, because his perspective, if I had to guess, is probably working with people right, If he's been working with a couple for six to nine months, that's different. Like you said, they can point, you can point out little bits of progress that they're not going to be able to see, but you can't give that advice to somebody who's not working with anybody for six to nine months. I feel like I mean, I yeah, I can't think of You're setting someone up for failure.
Charles:I can't think of a single area of improvement in your life where any good coach who's actually worked with people and seen what humans behave like would say I need you to commit to doing this for a year without seeing any outward signs of improvement whatsoever.
Dan:Yeah, even working with somebody that's a big ask who can point out the little things Exactly. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, to do without anybody. Forget it, no way.
Charles:Yeah, I can't imagine doing something for more than a few weeks without seeing some kind of hey, this is worth your time, this is worth your effort. And I yeah, maybe I'm unreasonable with that, but I don't know I don't think so, Don't you agree? Doing something, investing heavily in an activity and seeing no benefit or no impact positive impact for weeks? It wouldn't take me many weeks to say that's it. I tried, I'm done. Yeah, I got to see the number on the scale go better. I got to see. I got to be able to run for more minutes than I could run when I started. I've got to be able to lift heavier weight. I've got to see something. Yeah, Tells me. Okay, you're not just throwing darts at a board and hoping that it works out.
Dan:Exactly, and that's why I mentioned before, when you first start something, you want to see some results immediately. Ideally you don't do it in a way that's super stressful, like the whole go big or go home kind of thing. But so it would be helpful to work with somebody, because then they can point out the little victories or whatever and that kind of helps bring them to your attention type of thing. But I think it's got to be immediate, because everybody's feels like they don't have enough time for anything. So if you're going to invest time, especially in something that doesn't feel good, that's going to be the first thing to go.
Charles:Yeah, or certainly feels uncomfortable or unnatural. And you're not getting your results out of it, yeah, but here's the good news, though If I guess we couldn't call it, we shouldn't call it good news. But here's what I have observed In most male-female relationships the bar for men showing positive growth in areas like mental health and communication, the bar is so low that just showing up at home with this book that you ordered it on Amazon or you bought it at the store and coming home that will do wonders huge in most relationships.
Charles:If you're not the guy that does that kind of thing, that you're not obsessed with self-help books or relationship books, or you don't have a men's mental health podcast. Just by going to the store and buying this book and taking a couple minutes a day to open it up and read it is going to feel like you're moving the earth to the woman it could it absolutely could.
Charles:I would say in most cases it will yeah again, especially if you're not the guy that usually does that kind of thing and it means you're open to it.
Dan:Right, and that is a huge benefit. That's something I look for in friends and partners as well is just that you're open to new ideas. Like you don't have it all figured out and you are basically closed off to anything new. That's to me, that's dangerous.
Charles:Yeah, and I only bring that up to say don't use the idea of, oh, I could read this book and try to work this for a year. It's a possibility, and neither Dan or I are saying you should just put your head down and grin and bear it. I find just about all the women I know much less the ones I've been in relationships with would feel very encouraged and very hopeful that you're even opening up this book and starting to talk to her about some of these topics. Their attitude is not going to be to fold their arms and pretend as if you're not taking any effort. Just any effort is going to be enough to usually encourage your partner to want to get into this with you. So that's what you're usually going to experience.
Charles:Okay, so can love be reborn after sexual infidelity? I think that is fair to put this in the frequently asked questions, because he probably does get that question often. And and um, he's more optimistic in this area than I am. Um, you know, I don't know that I it's. It's never come to me the knowledge that I've been cheated on in a relationship, so I don't know that it's. I don't think it's ever happened. I could be wrong about that because none of us can really know for a hundred percent certainty especially looking back at previous relationships that when you're with your partner it's very easy to say, yeah, obviously she's never cheated on me, I've never cheated on her, I know that to a certainty. But then you look back at other relationships that didn't work out the way you want and maybe it is possible that there was something going on that I didn't know about. But I have always had the perception of myself that this was something that I would not be able to recover from. Just because of my own personal experiences growing up with neglect, betrayal, abandonment, stuff.
Charles:I don't think that I could tolerate a partner coming back after infidelity and I've never had to try the numbers that people are quick to say. The thing about statistics is, in individual cases it's either 0% or 100%. But when you look at it in larger populations, okay, how successful are reconciliations after somebody cheats? And the answer is not very. It's somewhere around 15%. A partner who has ever cheated on someone in a relationship is three and a half times more likely to cheat in the future than someone who's never cheated. So it's hard for me to turn off the front part of my brain that cares about numbers like that. Sure, and anybody could end up being part of that 15% where it works. But that's enough of a small number for me that I would say I'm already feeling all these negative emotions about this person.
Dan:I don't know that I would be willing to try it. It would be difficult to mend that. I feel like a lot of trust is violated and broken, and it's not just the physical act that happened, right, there's some deception and things like that. Now and then that could also lead to hey, maybe there's a problem that you initiated, perhaps in the relationship, but maybe the way she handled it wasn't the ideal way, right. So then, looking forward, what guarantees do you have that she's going to start handling things in a different way instead of cheating? Hey, I'm upset with what you did, or whatever. I think it just gets really sticky and messy.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, I would be the first to agree, and I think, based on other books I've read, other research I've read, there does seem to be some truth to the fact that cheating for men can often be a crime of opportunity. You got an unexpected chance to cheat and so you took that chance, and that doesn't make it okay. I'm just saying that I think guys would say yes to circumstances that could lead to cheating in a way that women don't, where for the most part, if a woman cheats in a relationship, it's because she feels like she's got a reason to cheat because of a hopeless situation in her current relationship. Yeah, and again, I'm not saying that morally justifies either party.
Charles:Your motivation for why you cheat doesn't make cheating okay. It doesn't as far as right or wrong goes, it doesn't matter, but it does help you understand why did this happen? What are the chances it would happen again? What has to happen for me to believe that it's not likely to happen again? And I would almost say that both people have to, both the man and the woman in a situation where cheating happens. Both of them have to have almost some sort of spiritual awakening or realignment where a lot of your ideas about the world, yourself, your partner, other people like. All of that kind of has to change in a very meaningful way if both parties are willing to look at it and say, yeah, I think we've got a good shot of recovering from this.
Dan:Yeah, yeah, and then, that being said, is, having the ideas like we've talked about is one thing, but then, when the situation happens again that perhaps caused the initial infidelity and cheating, are they able to then execute on those ideas and do things differently, communicate differently, so that the actual cheating doesn't happen again? Right, that's where the rubber meets the road, right? Can you then take those ideas and actually use them and make them effective to prevent things like that from happening again? That's another big question and you really won't know that answer until that situation happens again. So you're rolling the dice.
Charles:Yeah, and I would say again, even I've not, my knee-jerk reaction is I wouldn't consider even entertaining this possibility in my own life. But if I was going to, it would have to be under the care and direction of a professional who has a, an evidence-based program where, okay, this is how couples that have been through this are able to come together. And I have to have both partners would have to be willing to say, okay, I'm going to do all of these exercises, I'm going to follow all this advice, I'm going to do all the things that this professional is telling me to do, regardless of how uncomfortable they feel or whatever the the evidence says. Your greatest chance of succeeding at this is if you follow this. Whatever this program is this evidence-based, scientific program for reconciling after infidelity. And, yeah, if I either had the attitude I'm not going to do all these things or my partner I'm not going to do all these things, then I would have a hard time believing it was going to really go anywhere positive.
Dan:Yeah. For me it would be important to then also set boundaries with that other person. That would be part of it. Just to say, okay, if this doesn't happen, or if this does happen would say, okay, if this doesn't happen, or if this does happen, what are the consequences for those right? And get those established in advance, like we were just talking about the pre-planning of obstacles and problems. That would need to be completely objective and out on the table, so everybody sees what's at stake here. Oh, I'll just. You know, one person could be in the impression oh, we're going to try this. It doesn't work out, oh, we'll just try it again, even if I make that mistake again. The other person would be like that was your last chance. So I think it's really important to set those expectations up front.
Charles:Okay, what do you do when your wife refuses to speak your love language, even though she knows it? You ask questions why won't you speak to me? And there could be a lot of reasons. It could be that she has particular trauma or discomfort around that language, like she could come from a family where either they didn't touch or somebody touched her in a way that wasn't okay, and so there's going to be some energy and some trauma around physical touch if that's the case.
Charles:So, again, asking questions is going to be how you get to the root of this, because for most people their answer is not going to be I don't want to speak to you in to the root of this, because for most people, their answer is not going to be I don't want to speak to you in your love language just because I don't want to.
Charles:That's not going to be the answer that you get from almost anybody who either cares about the relationship or has some level of mental health that allows them to function in a society, much less in a relationship, right, nobody's going to say I just don't want to and then try to leave it there, and if they do at first, it's still your job to get help get to the bottom of that and ask the questions and say, okay, let's talk about this. A second reason might be okay. If I give him a little bit, he's going to immediately get complacent and stop filling my tank and again, that's probably also a learned reaction. That's not something that she's probably just making up out of thin air. It's probably something she's seen before in either previous relationships or, more likely, her relationship with you and it's an assumption that she's making.
Dan:Right, it's not based on facts at this point. It could be a previous experience. If you based on patterns patterns, correct. But if you're willing, then, to be having these discussions and bringing her this information and willing and wanting to talk about it, I feel like you're less likely to keep repeating the previous patterns. Right, so she could be, yeah. That being said, right, it's not wrong for her to be worried and understand, though, that you have an opportunity, though, and again, you're going to have to work a little bit, probably if you've created those patterns in the past, right so, but but be okay with that and don't be, don't just give off because she's skeptical.
Charles:Yeah, and that ties back to the chapter we did on apologizing, where it's especially when you have a history with somebody. That's a complicated history of both meeting their needs and failing to meet their needs, and ups and downs, and often it's not enough. You don't get credit for announcing your intentions to someone, right, I wish, yeah, oh, my God, that'd be great, it would. No, you'd be a rich man. You can get some credit for announcing your intentions and your plan, but you get the most credit for delivering on your intentions and your plan, like everything else in life. Yeah. So step one is say, hey, I've decided that I'm going to work on the way I relate to you. And the unspoken part is, regardless of what you decide to how you're going to relate to me, I'm going to make some efforts to relate to you in the way that you need. Here's my plan to do that. And now here's you getting to watch me deliver on that plan.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:But if it's just announcing the intention, yeah, big deal You're like, and it's easy to talk, is cheap, right Easy to announce your intentions for something. It's a little bit harder to announce your intentions plus your plan on delivering, and it's the most hard to announce your intentions for something. It's a little bit harder to announce your intentions plus your plan on delivering, and it's the most hard to announce your intention and now share the plan and then actually implement the plan on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. Yeah, yeah for sure. But yeah, I think all three of those components are important. You should be, because if you try to decide that I'm just going to do this completely behind the scenes, that's also not as effective as sharing the intention and the plan at the beginning.
Dan:It's an opportunity for you to really display the kind of person that you want to be by yeah, and that you deliver toward being Right, that you are delivering on the things that you're saying you're going to do Right.
Charles:And so that absolutely, I think, helps foster trust and for that thing, by telling people that you're working to get better at that thing and again, whether that's your friend, your wife, your therapist, whatever it does help to say accountability yeah, I'm going to. Not only am I going to plan to do this, but I'm going to plan to do this and tell people that I'm planning to do it and that, yeah, there are days that will get your nose in the book or get your butt in the gym or whatever. Yeah, when you're on the fence, don't want to be the guy who put this out there and then doesn't deliver on it.
Dan:That's a heresy egg on the face? No, thank you yeah.
Charles:So there's, there's ways to use that in a healthy way to to positively motivate. I believe there's ways to do it in an unhealthy way too, but I think there are definitely ways to use that. Hey, everybody, I'm adopting the identity of a guy who does fill in the blank, and then that can, because generally the guy who wants to become that guy is the guy who talks about being that guy. So you don't want to be the guy who just tries to keep it all inside and do it under the radar so that if you fail, nobody will know. But you also don't want to be the guy who just talks about it and never does it so weird so that if you fail, nobody will know. But you also don't want to be the guy who just talks about it and never does it. It's so weird. I don't know anybody like that. Take that mirror away from me, depending on what day it is and what the intention is. I've been both of those guys. I've been the guy who talks and doesn't do. I've been the guy who thinks, oh, I'll just do but not talk. And then if and it doesn't seem like either of those is a path to really making the change happen. The path is I'm going to announce it and I'm going to do it for sure. Okay, so I want to see how this came across to you, this one section.
Charles:Here Again we're in the part of what if she knows my love language but she doesn't want to speak it? He says my suggestion is that you initiate the love tank game, which was from chapter seven, which basically basically says on a scale of 0 to 10, how full is your love tank? And if she answers anything less than 10, you say what could I do to help fill it? Whatever she says, do it to the best of your ability. If you do this once a week for a month, chances are she will start asking you how full your love tank is and you could begin making requests of her. This is a fun way of teaching her how to speak your love language, for whatever reason.
Charles:The thing that kind of jumped out at me was a couple of phrases from no more mr nice guy, giving to get and covert contract, and I'm sure there's a way to do this that I'm is not immediately occurring to me. That doesn't feel like you're giving to get or engaging in a covert contract, but yeah, it does seem. If you're asking her about her love tank and you're trying to fill hers up and hoping that chances are, if you do this, she'll start asking you about yours. Because this section is what do you do when your wife refuses to speak your love language, even though she knows it? It does color it to me a little bit like here's a trick where you can get her to care about your love language yeah, you know what I mean.
Dan:I do get that taste, yeah, from the way he phrased things there, but at the same point I feel like maybe this is at the end of the book. This is one of those. What if my wife just isn't responding or getting it? After making some of these efforts and things, it's almost I am also getting a sense that this is a Hail Mary 2 type of thing, where not to go back to this religious thing. But so I agree with you, it is a little bit covert, contract-y and giving to get type of thing, the subtleties of having her take the quiz or responding in the past, just isn't working and you need to dial it up a little bit if you feel like you've got a lot of other really good things going on with your partner and it's just okay.
Dan:Look, I need to make it a little bit more obvious. Perhaps I don't know if you would, if I'd want to lead with this strategy because of the whole giving to get type of thing. Yeah, with this strategy because of the whole giving to get type of thing. I think my idea here is you start with a quiz and see how that goes and see what kind of response you get. This is to me. That's how I interpret it, yeah.
Charles:I would tend to agree. I just this does strike me as, like some of the stuff earlier in the book, this feels like very churchy dating slash, relationship advice, where it's like I go back to that story of this guy was in this girl's friend zone and so he takes her to a ball game and then they catch a foul ball and he gets a very. He puts together, buys an ornate display case for the foul ball and gives it to her and then she's so moved by this gift that now she feels romantic attraction where before she only saw him as a friend. It's okay. This is a story that somebody who's very naive and inexperienced in dating would think that it's supposed to work, because that's how I thought it would work when I was a teenager or in my early 20s. That's why I thought really that's how I thought people come together and that's what yeah that's what it feels like.
Charles:This is, too, where it's just oh, if you wanted to care about your love language, just go overboard caring about hers and then she'll. She'll start. And yeah, that's true, that might happen that way. But if you're doing this because, oh, if I treat her this way, then I'll, then she'll start to act this other way that I want her to act. That always seems to backfire. When I try to get something out of somebody by pouring on the sugar and being sweet to them, it never turns out the way that I want it to. That's fair, and I think that's what this feels like.
Dan:Yeah, yeah, like I said, that's I don't think it's the best strategy, but I feel like it's again. Hey, you know what? I want to try everything possible to try to save this. I just need to somehow wake her up to this concept right of us reading each other's love languages and responding to each other, because she just hasn't responded and I could see that being just another tool, but not one that would start with.
Charles:Yeah, I think, I think that this kind of I guess what bothers me about it?
Charles:It flies in the face of the relationship scientist role that seems to be. That seems to be the most effective way to get things done positively in your own life and in your relationships of. I'm going, I've decided that my wife is behaving, or my partner's behaving, toward me in a way that tells me she doesn't feel loved, she doesn't feel safe, she doesn't feel seen, she doesn't feel heard. So I'm going to experiment with trying to meet her needs as well as I can, for as long as I can, and then observe what are the results, what happens when I do that, and the way he phrases it, it seems more like a I'm not getting my needs met. What can I do to get my needs met? And the answer is okay, I'll act like I'm committed to meeting her needs, killing her love tank tank a while and see if she gets the message and starts treating me that way too yeah, the better way to go about this is try to find pleasure in exactly filling her love tank yeah, and whether that's intellectual pleasure.
Charles:I'm going to try this experiment and see how it works out, or I'm going to just learn ways to fill her love tank that I really enjoy and get something out of and there's a a possibility that you're going to get some good results and get something out of it At the very least.
Dan:Don't do it for only that reason. Right, yeah, the reward is Because I feel like it could be hollow too Right In terms of what you're doing. It's not going to be that effective as well.
Charles:Yeah, the thing that the benefits that you're that seem would be the most valuable to you is I'm going to do this so that I can learn what it feels like to be a man who does this. And I'm going to do this so I can, seemingly expectedly, watch her enjoy the company of a man who values this kind of behavior. Yeah, and so if you go into it with that mindset, I think you're more likely to experience the success that you want than if it's I. I feel neglected, I feel like this is unfair. I feel like she. She knows my love language, but she's not taking steps to speak to me in it. So what can I do? How can I get her to like me, love me, respect me, treat me the way I want to be treated? Oh, I'll do this for her for a while and see if she starts. It's just again, it could be best case scenario. It's just naive phrasing that he's using.
Dan:No, rubs me the wrong way, yeah, yeah.
Dan:And I think the undertone here with all of this is you need to go into this with a expectation and a mindset that you enjoy when your partner is happy, like you get joy out of that.
Dan:That is the benefit for you is seeing somebody that you love and you care about be happy and you derive joy from their happiness. And I think if you can go in with that mindset, with all these actions that you're taking, they're going to come across as sincere. They're going to come across with that flavoring of, hey, I'm doing this because I love you, and that's going to be very obvious versus if you're not there yet, where you still need something besides her joy to come out of this, need something besides her joy to come out of this. That's going to come across too in how you do these things, how you monitor what's going on afterwards. It's going to be very obvious that it's people. Even if we can't express them in words humans are very good at reading other people's body languages even with our subconscious, it's going to come out. You're not going to be that good of an actor if you're, if these intentions are selfish.
Charles:All right. So the next question was can emotional love return after it's been gone for 30 years? And he answers he basically shares a case of a couple who did get into this. Well, down the road and, yes, it did turn things around they both felt some regret that they lived the way that they had for as long as they had, without changing things. And yeah, I think that's the case with any positive change. It doesn't matter how long you've not been doing things right. You can always learn a new, better way to do things, and I think that's true as well. I'm single. How does the love language concept apply to me? Okay, he does have another book for singles that I bought, but I haven't opened up and started reading yet.
Charles:He had this story, though that did again communicate to me at least the misunderstanding on acts of service.
Charles:We hit that pretty heavy on that chapter where you know, basically in my opinion, if for this will be a wild example, but, or or maybe an overstated example you and your wife share a master bathroom and generally she's the one that cleans it, and then it's okay you go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you forget to lift the seat up and you pee all over the seat. And then you realize it and you're like oh, before I go, ben, I better wipe this, clean this up. Yeah, look at the active service I've just done for you. That's not an active service, that's cleaning up a mess you made. Yeah, that, because if you wake up two hours later and she stayed in bed the whole time and you have to go poop in the middle of the night, you sit down on a toilet seat cover cover your own pee. That's not fun for you either. So cleaning up your own mess helps you out and helps around, so it's not an act of service.
Dan:It goes back to what you're talking about in terms of the bar being so low that you just order the book and that's a big deal. That speaks to take a step back, if you can, and look at where that bar is like, where you're starting from here. Right, with those acts of service.
Charles:Right, you may have a little bit further to go than you realize, and that's where, like a third party or professional would, would be able to help guide you and go oh okay, look, that's not really an act of service, I agree, and so here's an example where I think he gets it wrong, where he talks about a guy who his love language is physical touch and he's about to go to prison and his mother hugs him goodbye on the day he's about to go to jail and he says the first hug I ever remember getting from my mother was the day I left for prison. But I realized that she spoke acts of service very strongly. Oh, interesting, what are the acts of service? She worked very hard to keep us in food and clothes and provide us a place to live. Yeah, that's not.
Charles:I remember hearing that too and like that, just didn't Having a kid and keeping them fed and clothed and not living outdoors is not loving them with acts of service. Talk about the bar being low. The bare minimum is you keep your kids fed, clothed and no, in this case I want to shake this guy, be like you had a shitty mom yeah and she doesn't get credit for keeping food in your belly and clothes on your back.
Charles:She you give her credit for that, but don't call it acts of service. I know now that she loved me. She simply wasn't speaking my language. It's like a mom that never touches her kid doesn't love her kid. I'm sorry, like you, you got it wrong. And this dr chapman, he's got it wrong too. Yeah, your mom didn't love you. I'm sorry, like you, you got it wrong, and this dr chapman, he's got it wrong too. Yeah, your mom didn't love you.
Dan:I'm sorry, it sucks, but your mom didn't love you yeah, I think he's using that example with the prison to set that bar really low and to say, hey, this guy yeah, but he accidentally got on a shovel and buried the bar under the ground.
Charles:There's no bar. I can't see the bar anymore. Yeah, he should just left that out. I don't understand. My love language was physical touch because maybe because your mother never touched you, your love language is physical touch. It could be, and she only gave. The only time she ever gave you a hug was when she, when you were going to prison. Yeah, you're. I'm sorry. It's not fun to hear your mom didn't love you, but your mom didn't love you. Yeah, at least not in any meaningful way. Here's a thing.
Dan:But what was that? Like three sentences there. We have no idea what the day-to-day looked like. You know what I'm saying. In turn would almost say it doesn't matter.
Charles:Your mom has never hugged you until you were going off to prison yeah that's a little bit of eating broth. That's like saying oh, my mother's love language wasn't words of affirmation, so she never said a single positive thing about my whole life. Yeah, yeah, oh, her love language wasn't words of affirmation, but I'm sure she was great.
Dan:He even says, though, with children, you should be sprinkling in all of the love languages Right At some point, so for him to never have gotten a hug.
Charles:Yeah, I would say yeah if there's one, he clearly didn't read the book. If there's one love language that your parrot has never, ever spoken to you in the first 20-something years of your life, then yeah, I'm sorry. You lost the parrot lottery and you got one that didn't love you, not in any way that has made you a healthy person, and that sucks made you a healthy person, and that sucks, I'm sorry. I'm sure there are people out there who have never gotten quality time. I mean certainly any dad that bails out on their kid as soon as they find out that mom's pregnant. They're not getting any quality time.
Dan:Yeah, what's interesting is he doesn't say anything like she would never hug me or touch me, but she wrote kind cards for me to encourage me in school and things like that. He didn't say any of that. There was no other type of love language that he mentions in that right no.
Charles:Acts of service, and keeping you fed and clothed is the only example that he offers.
Dan:That's not even acts of service. If it was like, oh, she would drive me to, you know, my basketball games and, you know, would make sure that I, you know, I had the clothes that I needed for the basketball and, you know, would a little bit more than just feed and shelter. Right, that's, right, that's.
Charles:It was a poor example of all she did was, yeah, was, give you food, give you shelter and, uh, keep clothes on your back. She never hugged you and now you're going to prison. Yeah, all these ingredients add up to you. You were not traumatized and abused by your mother, who didn't love you. So, yeah, I. And the fact that this doesn't occur to the author of this book, who could he could have put any combination of letters and words together that he wanted to, and he chose this one it makes me think, okay, what else does this guy not get about how the world works?
Charles:yeah, that's yeah, and how the editors did not pick up on that yeah, like nobody along the in the chain of getting this from an idea into my hand. Wait a second, we can't say this. It's crazy. So yeah that that really did jump out at me and felt like I had to rant on it for a good few minutes. Yeah, how do I speak my spouse's love language if he or she is away from me for a time? Deployment, work, school man, I don't know. He gives some advice on how you can try to make this work, but eddie has a five love languages for people in the military book that you can buy.
Dan:Which convenient, convenient but you have five love languages for people in prison, yet is that one of the?
Charles:yeah, if he thinks he can make a nickel I, I'm sure he'll put it out. But yeah, I would not. My needs would not allow me to be in a long distance relationship where it's okay. If your priority or your previous contracts involve you being gone from me for long lengths of time, then this isn't going to work. I can't do it.
Dan:Yeah, there's a reason why there's a stigma around long-term relationships. Long distance, long distance, long distance, yeah, but long distance. There's a reason why people are very skeptical of and it's got a reputation for it not working. Relationships are difficult enough. You're going to add some extra problem to that?
Charles:Yes, and stress old enough, you're gonna add some extra yeah problem to that. Yes, and stress, yeah, and good luck. Yeah, relationships where proximity is not an issue are hard enough to make work. So, yeah, you put huge amounts of distance and huge amounts of time in the mix where, yeah, I'm sure with technology and work schedules that are maybe more flexible there, there are more ways now than there ever have been to try to make it work. But, yeah, I would say that it's going to be hard, and he does offer some advice for how you can basically each love language. It's okay. Here's a way that you can try to get the most out of this in a remote, long distance situation that you possibly can. But I would say, just don't enter into those relationships lightly without realizing how much harder it's going to be for you than if you guys live in the same town.
Dan:Yeah, clearly you need a plan to end the long distance period. Right, it's never I don't think it's ever going to be a successful relationship unless at some point you guys are not long distance anymore. Yeah, I would. Unless at some point you guys are not long distance anymore, yeah, so I think without a solid plan that says, okay, at this point things are going to change, yeah, don't even bother.
Charles:Here's how long, don't leave it an open end. Yeah, here's how long we can do this. If we see each other this often, all right, anything else. Do you have any other frequently asked questions that you wish he might've covered that he didn't anything occur to you while you were reading this book that I the one that I have put out there a couple times when we've been talking about this is what are the processes by which we settle on these primary love languages? What happens to us both good things and bad things that happen to us as kids that kind of make us settle on whatever primary language, and what impact do those experience have, experiences have on how we communicate and receive communication? And again, I feel like for him to answer those questions. He would have had to approach this book in a very different way, like hiring researchers and grad students and commissioning studies and things like that would have had to have been yeah, something.
Charles:But this, this book, is definitely what I think most people would call pop psychology.
Charles:A lot of people when they write books on relationships and psychological topics, they're basically giving you the tip of the iceberg of all of the experience and research and scholarship that they have used to build a career and make themselves a peer-reviewed expert in this area, where I feel like Dr Chapman put it all on the field with this book. We're getting everything he's got to offer in this book. It could be, and that's what it feels like when I read it. When I read a book like the body keeps a score, or even why has nobody told me this before I get the feeling like there's a lot more under the surface that this author has decided not to get into because she wants he wants to make it very accessible to the lay person buying the book at Barnes and Noble or on Amazon, where, in this case, I feel like Dr Chapman's put. He's put it all out there, like all the research and experience that he's got. He's put in the 30, however many flavors of five love languages and it is what it is.
Dan:It could be, it could be, and I agree I feel like it is the tip of the iceberg and I think it's a very digestible way for people to at least open up to communicating more about what their needs are and understanding what other people's needs could be, and I absolutely see value in it and some people this might be enough for them. Other people it may not go deep enough.
Charles:Yeah, One of the things, one of the positive things, I would say that you and I probably both experienced. Reading this book is a lot of books, especially when it comes to psychology and relationships. I'll get into it for a while and feel like, okay, enough of the theory, Now tell me what to do. This book is all what to do. There's no academic theory. Let me build up my case Before I start telling you what to do. I want to both build up my own credentials, my own experience, and tell you about all the research for why you should trust what I say is what you should actually do. He doesn't do any of that in this book. He goes straight to here's what you need to do.
Dan:Yeah, it's the feel good. You're right Because you feel like you're doing something. So I totally see what you're talking about there. It's either one or the other a lot of times. Right, the best books, I say they do both. They can do both Exactly.
Charles:Why has no glummer? It's like, yeah, the first two-thirds of that book is basically him saying here's how to get your head right around dating and relationships and basically, yeah, get yourself viewing dating relationships in a healthy, objectively honest way first, and now I'll actually tell you how to go out there and meet a pretty girl. Yeah, and he did a pretty good job of that with dating essentials for men.
Dan:For me this was good. I really got the most out of the apology section and take literally today taking that quiz, realizing what means the most to me and having that information, I think definitely helps me guide my decisions and my actions and my communication moving forward. So I'm grateful for that.
Charles:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if either of us can actually apply that to our relationships in this way where we your partner does something, it bothers you, they apologize for it, and then you're willing to say hey look, I appreciate you put forth the effort to apologize. But for this to make me feel whole again, what I actually need to hear from you is blah, blah, blah. I've never had that conversation with somebody and it's hard for me to imagine that I ever would.
Dan:I don't think I'd go that route. What I literally think I would do is refer them to the section here on that book and say hey, listen, there's a number of different ways that we can apologize and I got a lot of value out of this. Would you be willing to take?
Dan:this you're gonna tell her what your language is I'm not gonna say anything unless she asks oh, my only ask would be hey, I got some value out of this. Are you willing to also invest in? I feel like I, and I would hope that she'd at least read it and then just continue the conversation from there. And if she asks about what, what mine is, then great.
Charles:If not, okay, let's take that information and do something with it okay, yeah, I was gonna say because it feels it could feel a little covert contracty. If, if you're not willing to say, hey, babe, this is what the apology that works for me sounds like, then it's almost like you're willing to say I'm okay, not being apologized to in the way that it actually helps at some point I probably would say yeah, what do you think I would be?
Dan:I would definitely be leading to, I would want her to have the opportunity to ask me, and and I so yeah, I would probably.
Charles:I don't know if that's covert contracting, maybe it is a little bit, but I yeah, because in a situation where your partner has already apologized to you, but she's apologized in a way that doesn't make you feel like you're ready to move on and, okay, close the door, I can see that I feel like you almost have to say, yeah, I appreciate the apology, but there's yeah, I'm not, I need more I'm not.
Dan:I'm not okay yet, and here's some ideas, Okay. So I think that it is a better strategy what you just said. I think that's a little bit. It's a hard. It's harder too, though, but but it is at least more upfront about it. And why do you want me to read this?
Charles:It's because I don't. I feel like we're not on the same what an apology means, and it's tough. I'll be honest. I have.
Charles:I've tried this and I before I even knew about and I've said I need your apology to include I was wrong when I did blah, blah, blah, and the answer I got was no, I'm not saying it. Yeah, and I'm like okay, let's move forward in this relationship and just hope it works out. Yeah, guess what happened, dan? It didn't work out.
Charles:Look, I I don't want somebody to say I was wrong if they don't think I was wrong. No, you want the truth. Right, if I wasn't wrong, I don't want you to say I was wrong, even though you don't believe so. But then what that does is it shines a giant spotlight on oh, we've got a values mismatch, and then that values mismatch is going to keep cropping up in all kinds of inconvenient and painful ways until the relationship ends, and then that's that, and then that's what happens sometimes. But yeah, I would say, if you're in a relationship with somebody and this is definitely going back on our last episode if they're never apologizing to you in the way that you need to be apologized to, then that is a pretty loud neon sign that says okay, we don't see relationships the same way and it's okay. We either need to put in some work to get on the same page or we need to realize that we're not good partners for each other.
Dan:Yeah, and bottom line is if they're willing to put in that work, great. If they're not, look, I think you're going to save yourself some time.
Charles:Move on, but part of it is you need to put in the work yourself to get to the point where you can even recognize that I'm receiving apologies that don't meet my needs. Yes, and most of us are there, most of us are.
Dan:Yeah, I wasn't until, literally, I read the chapter Exactly.
Charles:I didn't know what my needs were. We had this argument and you apologized, but I'm still angry and hurt about this. I wonder why that is.
Dan:Exactly. It just doesn't feel right.
Charles:I don't feel like we're on the same page when all you can say is this still doesn't feel right. You're not really empowering your partner to make any decisions to make things better, Because you don't know yourself.
Dan:This is all about figuring out yourself first and then. That's what our whole podcast is Exactly Is figure out yourself first and then so you can communicate what that is to the world.
Charles:Yeah, and, as usual, even though I had a bunch of gripes and a bunch of complaints about this book, I think it's one worth reading. You had a lot less than usual. Oh, yeah, certainly, definitely. Self-care for men and atomic attraction. I was tearing them apart every week. Yeah, no, this stuff. Yeah, every chapter in this book is a net positive, where, with those two other books I mentioned Self-Care for Men and Atomic Attraction there were still some real jewels in both of them, but I would say I found more. You had to dig. Yeah, you had to dig a little. Yes, exactly, all right, thanks very much, dan. I All right. Thanks very much, dan. I appreciated going through this. It was nice. Having. This was a refreshing book to do with you after the last one we did. Yeah, all right, take it easy. All right, bye-bye, bye. Wow, you made it through the whole thing, so you must like us at least a little bit, in which case you should definitely follow or subscribe to our show in your chosen podcast app. Thanks, we'll talk to you next time.
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