Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan Reveal Their Personal Boundaries
Episode Description:
In this episode of the Mindfully Masculine podcast, Charles and Dan open up about their personal boundaries, sharing stories from their lives and experiences. They provide updates on their progress with the 75 Hard Challenge, tackling the challenges of delayed onset muscle soreness, hydration struggles, and dietary discipline. Beyond fitness, the conversation delves deep into the importance of setting and maintaining personal, physical, and emotional boundaries in relationships and social situations.
Listen as they navigate the complexities of intellectual and spiritual boundaries, discuss strategies for managing peer pressure, and emphasize the value of clear communication when it comes to setting time boundaries with friends, family, and partners.
Key Takeaways:
- 75 Hard Challenge Updates: Charles and Dan share their fitness journey, including workout challenges and maintaining a strict diet.
- Physical Boundaries: How to navigate personal space in social and professional environments.
- Handling Peer Pressure: Avoiding guilt-trips and standing firm in your emotional boundaries.
- Respecting Intellectual Boundaries: The importance of acknowledging and valuing others' thoughts and ideas.
- Spiritual Boundaries: Respecting differences in belief systems while maintaining your own values.
- Time Management: Practical tips on setting and enforcing time boundaries in relationships.
Keywords:
personal boundaries, 75 Hard Challenge, physical boundaries, emotional boundaries, peer pressure, intellectual boundaries, spiritual boundaries, time management, fitness updates, relationship boundaries, healthy communication, guilt-tripping, fitness journey, Mindfully Masculine podcast.
Listen Now on: MindfullyMasculine.com
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Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. Okay, we're winded down on the Un-F your Boundaries book, but we've got a few more episodes for you. In this episode, dan and I will give you a quick update on our progress on the 75 Hard Challenge, including some difficulties with workouts and soreness and drinking that gallon of water a day and managing our diets. Then we'll shift into the material from the book on personal boundaries and the different types of boundaries. We'll get into some social interactions and relationships. Then we'll talk about the consequences of boundary violations. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom. You can find our video episodes, our audio episodes, anything we got to say it'll be on the website. So check that out, mindfullymasculinecom. Thanks and enjoy the episode. Good morning, charles. How are you? I'm well, dan. Thank you very much. How are you? I'm good. We are both on our 75 hard challenge and we just want to give everybody a brief update and then we'll get into the material from our book.
Charles:I'm on day five and still dealing with some completely expected but unpleasant all the same delayed onset muscle soreness from getting back in the gym and lifting after taking half a year plus off of lifting, and now I'm dealing with very sore quads, quads, biceps and chest, which are pretty much, and, yeah, those are the things I'm hitting. So those are the things that are hurting, but been doing okay with my workouts, been doing okay with drinking my water. It hasn't been easy getting the gallon in every day, but last night I was chugging. I probably had about a quarter of a gallon to go last night at a time when I was ready to go to bed, but I couldn't go to bed. I had to drink my water, and so then I did go to bed, but every 20 minutes.
Charles:For the first hour I was laying in bed, I was getting up to go to the bathroom, and so if I do a better job of getting my water in during the day, it won't be quite that bad. Yeah, yeah, that was a little bit of a bungle on my part. So, like I said, I'm on day five. You're in that. What? High 20s, low 30s by now, low 30s. I'm not day 34.
Dan:Nice, yeah, but still not halfway done. Oh yeah, it's, it does get a little bit easier. I would know I noticed like at week two and a half, three it was okay started to ease up a little bit, it started to become less of a forced thought to get all of those tasks done.
Charles:What's been the hardest task for you? The two workouts, or the hardest?
Dan:task for me. Not drinking, that has not been easy Really. Yeah, that's a lot of temptation. Actually sticking to the diet, the calorie plan for me, has been a challenge. I ended up creating a little spreadsheet to. On days where I go over on my calories, my mind goes F it. I might as well eat whatever I want at this point because I'm going to start fresh the next day. I rigged it so I have a little calorie tracker so that it will carry over those calories to the next day and even to the next week. So it's not even like on a Sunday night where I'm like to the next day and even to the next week. So it's not even like on a Sunday night where I'm like, oh, I'm over for the week or other day I'm doing for the whole 75 days For my diet.
Charles:I decided to start with something that I thought I could adhere to fairly easily, which is no sweets, and like best effort on tracking calories, and so that's. I've been able to make that no problem so far. These first five days I do miss sweets. Part of it is just like looking at it. Are you going to really throw this thing away and have to start over on day zero because you need a little piece of chocolate and there's? As soon as I asked myself that question, I'm like absolutely not. There's no way I'm going to start.
Charles:Even just having four and a half days built up in a row, there's. I'm not going to waste the last four and a half days built up in a row. I'm not going to waste the last four and a half days just for because I need a little piece of milk chocolate, and so when I start feeling that way, I just have a banana or get a small thing of the blackberries and okay, there's. Or honey, crisp apple, there's your sweets. This is what it is now, what you get for the next two and a half months, and so far so good, but we'll see how it keeps going. What's?
Dan:what I love is like the little things that I've started to notice about myself in terms of looking for ways to challenge myself or not minding the things that used to bother me in the past. For example, I went to the gym yesterday. It started to downpour and I normally I'd sit in my car for 15, 20 minutes, waiting for the fortnight. Yeah, I just got out and I walked to the walk in the rain. I didn't run, I didn't run, I didn't look for shelter, and it's because I've walked in the rain already. You go from this challenge and I didn't melt. Even though I'm sweet as sugar, I didn't melt. It's unbelievable. I was really surprised, dr.
Charles:Faith Harper and for this chapter on exploring your boundaries. She asks a whole bunch of questions that can help you determine what your boundaries are, and I thought what might be fun for our listeners and maybe not so much for us is if we just go through and ask ourselves and answer these questions for ourselves and as each of us give our answers. If something needs clarification or doesn't make sense or I'm wondering where you came up with this way of thinking, I'll ask you and we'll dive into it a little bit. Sounds good, all right, the first one Full question for you.
Dan:Do we get to veto any answers? Do we get to say, ah, I'm not ready to?
Charles:talk about that. You just say I don't want to talk about it and afterward I'll just cut out complete sections that you and I don't want to leave in. Okay, yeah, works for me. Yeah, there's no rule here where we have to answer everything or be comfortable answering everything. So yeah, even if you do decide to answer something and you don't like it, later I'll just cut it out. Fair, and yeah, I may find myself in that All right, all right.
Charles:I'll hang out for this one, All right. Good, what are some of your physical boundaries, and are they rigid, flexible or permeable? I would say I have not many physical boundaries, but the ones that I do have, I probably have some that are rigid, some that are flexible and some that are permeable. Yeah, the one thing that came to mind was if I'm in a work event or a social event and there's somebody who's a hugger, for the most part I'll probably just give them a hug, even if I don't feel like it. So that's a permeable boundary for me.
Charles:And unless there were some severe hygiene or comfort things where I thought they were creepy, I thought they were really weird or I thought they smelled bad, or somebody was super sweaty and I could tell, or super dirty, for the most part I'm going to still go ahead and hug somebody that I'm not super excited to hug and just be like all right, that's the way it goes in some social situations. Now would it be better for me to be like no, thank you, I'm not hugging today. Maybe it wouldn't. I I'm not convinced that. It's not okay for that to be a permeable boundary for me. The other one I thought of as a physical boundary is. I don't want people putting their hands on me when they're angry. Oh sure Whether that is a stranger, a friend who's had a couple too many to drink, a romantic partner I'm having an argument with. No people don't put their hands on me when they're angry.
Dan:So when you say hands on me though that's not like a tap on the shoulder You're talking about some sort of aggression that's expressed physically.
Charles:I'm not like, hey, I'm really angry at you right now, but I think if we hug it out it'll be okay, I'm not talking about that, that's what I was saying.
Dan:Yeah, because hands on me is very specific. Yeah, no shoving me, no slapping me. I think that's pretty standard policy, even if somebody's not angry with me. I'm not a fan of the howling around thing, so this is interesting, okay. So here, I never thought about this, but I've never been a fan of people who do the hey and give you a punch in the stomach or you know saying or, or, uh, just a shovel, hey, man, like just a, like a friendly trying to greet you type of thing, where it's a little bit aggressive type of thing and they're looking to just pal around. They don't mean anything by it, but that's always bothered me, that's always I've been at that point. Then I've put you aside, like you are not. Yeah, you're not going to be in my inner circle because you just there's no need for it that's why I look at it.
Charles:Yes, I've even had the guys who not only step one, they were hugguggers, especially man. I tell you what, when dudes get a couple of beers in them, it's like most interaction I'm going to enjoy. But yeah, there, there've been a couple of guys. I've known that once they get a couple of drinks in them and then you show up to the party a little bit later after they've already started the party, they not only do they give you the big bro hug, but the pat on the back has to be way too hard yeah, oh, see again, that's that's what I'm talking about.
Dan:It's yeah, that's what made me think of it. It's like, yeah, there's no need for that. Yeah, is that? Yeah, is that overcompensating? For hey, I want you to know this is platonic and that's why they do the extra hard versus a normal.
Charles:I don't know I think the pat on the back during a hug, yeah. Its roots in hey, we're bros, I'm not, I don't have a crush on you. Yeah.
Dan:Yeah, yep Good babe.
Charles:But yeah, so, yeah, those are some of mine and I would say, yeah, the touching me in any kind of an aggressive way is definitely rigid. If you do that, then, as we learned from all the good self-defense people online, it's I'm either going to remove myself from your location or I'm going to get aggressive back. If leaving is not an option, then I'll get aggressive back. But as somebody who is an adult, who's fairly competent at handing social interactions, I've never had to really deal with this, so I don't tolerate it. So I kind of put out the vibe that I don't tolerate it.
Dan:We went to a conference a few years ago and ran into somebody that like knew me through a friend and you, you know what I'm talking about here and like I had really no conversation with him, like he knew me through a friend on social, like I'd never met him before in person, and he greeted me and as if I was this other person almost, and like he greeted me as if I was this other person almost and like he knew me Right, which there's no, you know, that was before we were doing the podcast, so he knew nothing really about what we were doing. Maybe we just started. Anyway, yeah, we were like, oh, we were like, oh, we were like, oh, we were like, oh, we were like, we were like, oh, we were like, oh, we were like, oh, we were too familiar, he was too familiar. And the initial hug okay, I'm okay with that wouldn't have. I thought that was even a little bit out of the ordinary because I'd never met him before.
Dan:If I met you before, you're a friend, no problem with a hug as a greeting. But then it was afterwards where we were hanging out and just having basic conversations where I believe she was like massaging my shoulders and my and my neck, as I was talking to somebody else and it was just like what's going on here and I was. So that was a boundary that was violated and I didn't make a scene and I really I think if it had proceeded to move down into a certain maybe a no touch me spot kind of thing, then I probably would have started circling. Yes, I wouldn't have stopped there. I love that, no, but no, seriously that it just yeah. But even a close friend doing that would have been like why are you miss out? It'd be different if I was like my neck really hurts, but even then you ask first, you don't just touch and just assume I need a massage.
Charles:So are there any issues you want to address regarding your physical boundaries, anything you want to explore? One thing I will say is even my boundary of nobody gets to touch me in aggression, I feel like we do need to acknowledge there are probably not listening to our podcast but in America right now, hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people that are in relationships where they have permeable boundaries. They're getting touched aggressively by their parents, their romantic partners, whatever, extremely often and for whatever reason. They can't set that boundary. They can't say I won't tolerate this, or they won't say I won't tolerate this, and that's unfortunate, but it is something that happens because you mentioned oh, isn't that just a given that people can't touch you? For me it is, but for some people they're in situations where, yeah for sure, they can't maintain that boundary.
Dan:I still think yeah, I guess the boundary might. So here's the question is so everybody I think most people have that boundary, and the question is what do you do with it, Like, how do you enforce it, how to communicate that you have that boundary and that the other person's violated it? And that's where the challenge lies I know it is, for me anyway is enforcing the balance.
Charles:I'll disagree with you. Some people don't even have that. Some people think, oh, it's just my. My dad gets to hit me, my husband gets to hit me and that's just the way of the world I'm sure they're.
Dan:They're out there and to me that that breaks my heart. I I hear that because I don't think anything good can come of that.
Charles:No, certainly not. I yeah my my position on touching people or even animals when you're angry at them is not something that should ever be okay, whether it's your kids, your partner. If you do have the idea that we, as humans, have either been given something by our creator or have evolved into something that makes us different from chimps, then if there's any benefit to that, it's the ability to settle disputes with conversation instead of with physical violence, and I many disagree with me, but I think that applies to kids too.
Dan:I don't think you have to use physical violence to solve problems, even with little kids, right, I don't make good decisions at that point I'm not. The last thing I want to do is you shouldn't be touching somebody when you're angry. You need to be like have your wits about you when you're making, when you're interacting with other people, when you're making decisions, and the more I can pause and realize I'm not in a state of mind to make the right decisions even late at night when it comes to buying stuff like like, buying stuff like on Amazon or signing up for programs. So I'm trying to remember to give myself a day to to not think about it, but just pause before pressing the buy now button, just one day when I've done that. It's definitely benefited my wallet as well as my relationships.
Charles:Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Knowing that you're in suboptimal states for certain interactions is important, so that you can just delay them until you're in a better position. What are some of your property boundaries?
Dan:Do you have any property boundaries, and are they rigid, flexible or permeable and this comes from being a kid or whatever and I've had experiences when I was in college and younger as well, where I'd like somebody would ask to borrow something.
Dan:And then it was basically like they just thought it was theirs or they forgot about it, completely disrespecting me and our relationship. Because I did you a favor and you just lost it, or whatever, and it's just acknowledge, hey. Or just come to me and it's, and you just lost it, or whatever, and it's just acknowledge hey. Always come to me, say, hey, I I lost, okay. But just I think it's more of a disrespect thing more than anything else. It's not like I like it never. It's not like I'm like loaning somebody a kidney and I want it back right like where it's really important to me, but so I think that's more just just to pretend it like never happened.
Charles:For me that's more of a respect type of thing yeah, and this is an area where I I can't even think of the last time that somebody violated a boundary I had it or just behaved in a way inappropriate with my stuff I don't have a ton of stuff to loan out to people anyway, and I guess one of my things that I just generally I don't want people touching my stuff. If I, if I'm at a conference or something and I set my bag on a chair.
Dan:Oh yeah.
Charles:Picks up my laptop bag and moves it, or something like that, then that will rub me the wrong way.
Dan:Or a radio playing at a pool party?
Charles:Never, oh, no way. But yeah, just generally, don't touch my stuff unless, oh, your laptop bag was on fire and I had to. It was an emergency and I had to deal with it. That's one thing, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just like, oh, this thing is in my way or inconveniencing me, so I'll just do something about that. Right, you don't get down to that, no, no, all right, let's see what the next one is.
Charles:What are some of your sexual boundaries? Um, yeah, I can't think of. I mean, I'm sure I have some. I, I just I don't frequent, I, I don't ever find myself in a position where I need to enforce those boundaries. Okay, like being a heterosexual man, yes, yes, if some bigger, stronger than me guy decided he wanted to do something sexual with me, then I would have a boundary that I would have to enforce. But I just never find myself in any position with a partner or a stranger where someone is pushing up against my boundaries, is pushing up against my boundaries. So I think that's one of those things where you know, as straight guys, we're kind of on easy mode when it comes to our sexual boundaries, compared to what people in the gay community, or what women have to deal with.
Dan:Yes.
Charles:I don't have situations as an adult.
Charles:I never had to deal with the trauma of molestation or being touched inappropriately or having an adult talk to me about inappropriate things. Of all the messy things I came out of my childhood with, that was never one of them, so that's not really something I've ever had to worry about, and I know that puts me probably I would think probably in a minority when you think of all the men and women that grew up around the time we did. Almost everybody has some kind of story of yeah, there was one time my neighbor got a little weird. It didn't lead to anything, but it was still like and I'll have any of those stories, so it's. But yeah, I do have sexual boundaries, it's just not. I don't have a situation where my previous romantic partners have ever tried to do anything without my permission where I've had to put the brakes on and say, oh, I'm not into that. It's either they've asked me about it beforehand or everything they brought up. I'd be like yeah, let's give that a shot, let's see what that's like.
Dan:Yeah, I think I'm on the same page where, as long as you bring it up beforehand and you're not just springing it on me and then or and or making me feel bad about it afterwards.
Charles:Sure.
Dan:Because I didn't pick up what you're putting down. So I've been lucky with that as well, and I'm always willing to have a conversation about things. I think people could come to me with some ideas that I've seen some late night shows on HBO and Showtime where I'm like, yeah, not for me. Me know, that's what you're into.
Charles:I'm not into it, I'm never going to be into it and if you keep bringing it up, it's probably not going to be great for the two of us. But I've just that's a hypothetical, that's all hypothetical for me. I've never had to actually deal with that. Yeah, where I think, yeah, there are other people of other demographics that probably do deal with stuff like that, because, yeah, as a straight men who are into women for the most part we're in the driver's seat as far as the way.
Charles:More often than not. Yeah, the way sexual actions go, yeah, we're usually the ones that are leading the interaction, yep, and because we're attracted to women who want us to be the ones leading the interaction, and so, yeah, I think that's an area where we don't have to work as hard as some do.
Dan:No, Our hard work is more on the other side of making sure that we're other things. With a woman and she would want to have sex and I basically wasn't ready for whatever reason.
Dan:I just was like maybe she wasn't my girlfriend and I had this like weird or not so weird, but this is for me looking back and I feel like it's weird compared to the way I look at things now. But basically, notion where I have this with these rom-coms we grew up watching Virginity is a special thing. I needed rose petals and candles or whatever, and not necessarily that I wanted those things, but that was the right way to go with that it was supposed to be, and I just lumped my virginity in with that as well and so I was waiting for, like this woman that was like really special and blew me away or whatever. And we had this wonderful relationship again programmed from TV and movies.
Dan:And there were times where a girl would basically end our sexual interaction because I wouldn't take it to that level. And one girl had basically was honest with me at the time, and's okay, listen, I'm like what's wrong? You don't want to keep doing what we're doing, and she's, there's a certain point in time where I need to have, I need to have sex. Like I'm at the point of where I need actual sex and I was just like, all right, let's, I'm not ready for that kind of thing. And then, lo and behold, we she stopped returning my calls and stopped hanging out. I guess at that point I had some boundaries. Yeah, that I was also enforcing and it's interesting.
Charles:That's definitely not a scenario that, yeah, the media prepares you for, where the girl wants to have penetrative sex you're not ready and so she loses interest in you. Huh, that is a thing that happens, yeah, and uh, yeah, but it's not something that really the hollywood love stories prepare you for. No, yep, yeah, all right. Uh, emotional relational boundaries uh, yeah, I definitely at least I guess I would and we're gonna hit, uh, intellectual, spiritual time boundaries as well. Um and so keeping these that are a little less concrete, sort of in the right categories could be difficult. But what I would say is I do not respond well at all to someone trying to get what they want out of me by attempting to make me feel guilty. That would be an emotional boundary for me.
Charles:Anytime I feel like somebody's trying to guilt, trip me into something that that is usually an express train to you and I don't talk anymore. I have extremely low tolerance for that, and it's if you try that on me once I'll be like, listen, you're not gonna, you're not gonna guilt me into giving you what you want if it's not something I want to give you. And the fact that you even tried is that's that really turns me off of this friendship or relationship or whatever, and then usually, yeah, I see myself distancing from that person. That is, yeah, guilt trips are. Guilt is not a currency that I either use to pay or accept.
Dan:Yeah, that's tough when it was tough for me at least when I was younger in like college and high school, because it comes across as peer pressure. At that point that's, I feel similar to the guilt type of thing. We're trying to make you feel bad to get, have somebody do, have you do something somebody else wants. And it's tough when it's like a little circle. You've got some social circles that, like in college, I had some different social circles that I could hang with and some of them would unfortunately be the ones that were having and planning a lot of the good times in terms of going out and doing activities and things. And if I wanted to do those activities and join them, I need to do some things that I wasn't really super comfortable or enjoyed doing. And then the other groups that I could hang out with, in comparison, seemed boring at the time.
Dan:Right, there wasn't a lot of things going on, so it was very difficult for me to go OK if I say, if I hold my boundaries and my ground, these people, I'm almost punished because I don't have, I'm going to be missing out on this, whatever activity it is, or I may not be invited to other activities and stuff. So it was very it was. It was difficult for me, and I can't say that I'm proud of some of the decisions I made. I probably should have at least cut back on the amount of times I gave in to guilt trips Interesting yeah, I've never. I wish I had that fortitude that you just described when I was young.
Charles:That's interesting, see, I've never really had that challenge in peer settings. It's only been my familial relationships where, in peer settings like I've, there were times when I've been out and, yeah, friends wanted me to either have more alcohol that you already had and that's a big one yeah, or people wanted to get high or something like that, and and I in the moment I've been like what's happening right now? Are you trying to peer pressure me? You're trying to get me to do something I don't want to do.
Dan:I will ruin this night for all of us you have that training, yeah, from your upbringing, to basically be able to do that to the peers.
Charles:I didn't have that yeah, yeah and yeah, so I've I've really said it that way, like I will ruin this night for all of us if you don't leave me alone I need to say I see, I think you need to thank your mom for that and most of my friends are like god.
Dan:He means that he will ruin this, oh you say there's, there's no like wavering, there's no question where you're coming from on that like, oh, maybe he's kidding the options that comes across.
Dan:And it's interesting because now I'm putting things together a little bit in terms of some principles here and I feel like a lot of times when we don't get along with people it's because they are assuming or living in one version of reality that that isn't accurate for us.
Dan:And so I could see a lot of issues from a woman's side. When a guy tends to, when he's got a crush on her, just from seeing her across the, from across the supermarket, he thinks she's beautiful and then has all these fantasies about her going, coming his girlfriend and then having kids together and all these things that, like I've been there when I was younger the mind races and just makes and so you start living in this fantasy world and then you then are, then start acting and behaving that way with that other person and they're like what is going on here? There's a disconnect in terms of, yeah, of the world that we're living in and the relationship that we're having. And I think this also applies Remember the guy that I met at the conference. Also, we're living in a different world, like maybe he was hearing all these stories about me and felt like he knew me right, but I didn't know that he heard anything like that great point yeah, I heard two stories recently from ladies that I feel are relevant.
Charles:one was, uh, somebody online who was talking about they were at a coffee shop sitting outside reading reading a book, and they made contact with a guy and she said he was cute, he seemed nice, and then he walked away. But then he turned around and he said, hey, would you like to get a cup of coffee with me sometime? And she's like I understand that approaching people in public it's mostly about how the person looks and it's like, okay, he thought I was attractive so he decided to ask me out. But it's like it turned me off a little bit because I'm sitting there like I'm outside, my dogs next to me, I'm reading a book. It's like you could have used any of those things to establish some sort of rapport before you went straight to I'm going to ask you out. You could have commented on the book, could have walked over and pet my, my doll. You could have done something that wasn't just a. This is a beeline, quickest route possible to. Can we go on a date, yes or no?
Dan:yeah, at that point though, yeah, it seems pretty straightforward. It's what would be in it for her. She has no idea whether she he likes anything about him. If he says, oh, I've read that book too, I've got this kind of dog or whatever, all right, at least you've got something to go on, and there'd be a reason for her to want to get to know it he's establishing.
Charles:I'm only into the way you look and all you know about me is the way I look, yeah, yeah, that's the limiting thing where I couldn't. I could never do what he did I. If I decided, hey, I've got to talk to this girl, I would have to start with something about the current environment, her book, her dog, her jewelry. I would have to find something, because I could never just walk up to a girl and be like, hey, can we get some coffee sometime? And I don't know that I would want to. The older I get, the less likely someone's appearance would be enough to motivate me to start a conversation. There's just nobody. I've got a girlfriend now, but even when I didn't, it's there's nobody who looks good enough that I'm going to risk wasting two hours on a dinner with them that might be uncomfortable and weird and awkward, just because they're good looking.
Dan:Right yeah, that's the thing too is there's so many attractive people out there, right, Right, it's just there's so many of those. It's okay for it to be worth my time. There needs to be something else that we've got to niche down a little bit. Oh, you're attractive and you're reading a book that I love and you've, and the more of those things you can find, the more that fingerprint that matches what you're attracted to and maybe who you are. Then it might be worth at some point then going oh wow, this is really a diamond in the rough here, because I don't see somebody who checks all these boxes in these different areas. That's a rare thing to find.
Charles:Exactly, yeah. So just the idea of oh, they're really good looking. I'll tolerate any sort of experience, any sort of that immediately lowers your value to them as well.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:All right and oh. The other story was a friend of mine was talking about a guy she went on a date with and then afterward they were she wasn't like really into pursuing it, but after the date they were exchanging some memes on Instagram and she was saying how he was sending her memes that were overtly sexual. It was a we haven't had any physical. We went on one date, we haven't had any physical interaction with each other, and the fact that you're sending me a disproportionate number so if one out of 20 is a little bit of a racy joke, that's one thing, but sending too many memes, they're too focused on things that are sexual. She's like this deal is out deals, out of balance. Isn't it right out?
Dan:of balance, exactly right out of balance, of what her assumption was with the relationship and his. So him he was obviously really attracted to her and in his mind it's a sexual connection, and this is like a.
Charles:This is a backdoor way for me to introduce sex into the relationship without actually being vulnerable and taking the risk of trying to move in for a kiss, and I think that is probably the the source of why it was a turn off. Yeah, I could see that for sure Because, yeah, I want this from you, but I'm not, I'm not willing to take a risk to to take the relationship this way. So this is a back doorway for me to see if you're cool with it or not. Yeah, and so she ended up blocking the guy because she just was like eh, this feels awkward, I'm not comfortable with it, I don't think I want to keep, and he tried to talk her out of it and I was like just block him. You went on one date with the guy. You haven't been with him romantically or sexually. If a guy one strike is my own no-transcript and you're trying to convince me that I need your product and you're not responding to my calls or my emails in a timely way, there's no way you will. After you have my money, I'm out Absolutely not Okay. After you have my money, I'm out absolutely not okay.
Charles:Intellectual boundaries we talked about those a little bit and I don't really understand. I didn't feel really clear what she meant in the earlier chapter by what is an intellectual boundary? Because, basically, if the way I thought it was stuff like if you are not being treated like your thoughts and your ideas have value, but that's feel more like an emotional thing to me. It's hey, I believe really strongly in fill the blank political issue and if your partner or any other person in your life's response to that is that's dumb, that doesn't make any sense.
Charles:I don't see that as an intellectual boundary violation. That's an emotional, relational. Yeah, because just because you disagree with somebody, you don't treat them like their thoughts are stupid is an intellectual boundary. I'm plagiarizing your book. That that feels like an intellectual boundary, right? Yeah, yeah, how often do we really encounter that in our real life interactions with people? Yeah, I'm stealing your ideas at work and taking credit for them. Maybe that's what she means, but again, I feel like that's. We're in a relationship as co-workers and you're stepping on that in an inappropriate way.
Dan:That feels relational to me. Do you think maybe she meant talking down to somebody without like coming out of the box? Shame on my, but I'm coming out of the gate talking to somebody, down to somebody and instead of.
Charles:It's hard for me to look at that as an intellectual boundary because that's still You're making me feel, or I'm feeling feelings and I'm feeling emotions as a result of the way you're treating me. So I feel like that belongs more firmly in the emotional relationship boundary bucket than intellectual, because ultimately it's you know. Know you're hurting my feelings because of the way you're treating my thoughts or my ideas, but it's still my feelings that are being hurt yeah, but aren't all boundary violations come down emotions anyway, that's right.
Dan:So I think, yeah, I feel the label that you can I, yes, I feel like the intellect be aware of that. It is a boundary by spiritual and time boundaries.
Charles:It's all still emotional. Yeah, like I, it's hard for me to look at these as as they're not being a huge overlap with your emotions, and for me it makes more sense to put them in the emotion bucket I.
Dan:I see I do see why she put these on here that are so close to just straight up emotional boundaries, because and it was interesting for me when she went through different scenarios that I didn't think it was a boundary violation. And when she put these different labels on it, it's easier for me to see hey, when you are man speaking to somebody or talking down to somebody, it's still a boundary violation. She's talking about. This might be intellectual, this might be a mental or whatever it is. For what it's worth, it did help me expand my awareness of and looking for different types of ways boundaries are being violated. Yeah, mind think. Okay, it could have a bigger impact than I had thought of previously to the other person when I behave this way, when I potentially assume they don't know anything about the subject instead of asking yeah, that's true hey or do you want my advice versus me just giving it?
Charles:right like yeah, I guess it was the hardest one. Spiritual boundaries are a little bit easier in that. This seems fairly cut and dry to me, which is whatever religion you believe, the creator of the universe handed down that you're on board with. You don't get to decide that I have to live my life in compliance with the way that you've decided to live yours. Yeah, and yeah as far as. As far as people thinking that, oh, I'm wrong, or telling me that I'm wrong because of what I believe, that doesn't really violate a boundary.
Charles:Of course there wouldn't be all these different religions except we think the other people are wrong, it's. There wouldn't be 50 varieties of evangelical Christianity. Logically, you can't have all these different varieties without thinking I know something that the other, that all these other people don't know. I'm right about something that all of them are wrong about. So if we're having a conversation about religion and you basically tell me I think I'm right and you're wrong, I'm like yeah, I, I knew that going into this conversation, of course you think you're right, not wrong now when you start forcing people to do something different, exactly having an opinion.
Dan:Yeah, you're allowed to have an opinion. I think I'm going to hell and you're going to.
Charles:Absolutely I'm not going to take that person, because my answer is, of course. You think that otherwise you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be going to this building every sunday, you wouldn't be engaging in these rituals, you wouldn't be studying this holy book if you didn't think, oh, if I comply with everything that I think I have to, I'll go to the nice place, and people who don't will go to the bad place yeah, I think what's good.
Dan:The example she uses here is if you are forced to not, you're not allowed to pray in in for, like in school or whatever, or vice versa, they, you are forced to pray for something right.
Charles:That both are violations yeah, yeah, I'm completely fine with the idea of okay, right after the bell rings, our school is going to have this moment of silence where you get to think or do anything you want to during that moment. That doesn't interrupt the person next to you doing whatever they want to think or do, and that's fine. Yeah, but when it's and the principal will lead us in this prayer or something like that's, when it's okay, let's put the brakes on for a second. You want to have a moment of silence where everybody gets to think and feel what they want to think and feel without encroaching on anybody else.
Charles:yeah, yeah who would have a problem with that. I don't know any reasonable people that would. Yeah, but when it comes to and I'll lead us in a verse of this hymn or this song or whatever, no, that's where I'm. No, you can't do that, I can't do that, you can't do that and yeah. So the I guess that would be spirit Time boundaries. Those are, I guess, showing up on time when you and I have plans and it's your responsibility to get there. At the time we both said we would get there. I guess that's a time boundary. Yep, I violate it all the time. Yeah, I know, I know I do, sometimes too Rarely, but you're really good with that, good at it. But, man, you know, know, living in Bradenton where it's like, hey, dan, let's all to have the podcast at nine and I'm gonna make.
Dan:I'm gonna drive two and a half hours but I know how far you're going and what the traffic looks like.
Charles:I don't variables in that in a trip that long that could mess me up. Yeah, I still. I try to leave early enough where I'll show up way too early, but sometimes it just so I guess for me that's a permeable boundary right and what?
Dan:how I've accommodated that is, I try not to. I try to give like a window, like a buffer of when I need to like finish the podcast, right. Sometimes I've got a hard stop. When you're great, you're really respectful of that. But same thing, like with friends and family, where if I know somebody's notoriously going to be either starting the process to go out and it takes a little bit longer than he or she mentions, I will put in that buffer.
Dan:And so what's helped me become? It's helped my relationships by being permeable and I think she also talks about that is yeah, permeable doesn't equal bad Right and it's made my relationships better because I'll give somebody a little extra time and say all right, look, I'd like to be at this place at a certain time, and a lot of times it's I don't need to be there until a half hour later or whatever. And that because the reservations then I don't. If they ask me, I'll say I'll give them, I'll tell them the truth. This is when the the reservation is. But I would like to and I go with that. I would like to be there, though early, by such and such a time. That is it, and I lead with that. I don't tell them what the actual is, unless they ask how time is, unless they ask me for it so yeah, that's one of my.
Charles:I won't do that. I won't, certainly I won't. I've heard of couples where the wife or the girlfriend is always late. So if the guy bought tickets to a 7 30 movie, he just flat out lies and says that it starts at 7 because Cause he knows that she's always late. I would never in a million years do that, because I feel like number one. You don't get to turn me into a liar because you can't manage your clock, cause.
Dan:I like that perspective. That's a boundary for me.
Charles:I am not going to become a liar because you can't manage your time, because not being a liar is too valuable to me. I'm I am not going to become a liar because you can't manage your time, because not being a liar is too valuable to me. And the other thing is what I do find number one. I, if I went on a date with a girl a couple of times and I got the vibe that she can't show up on time, I'm just not calling her for another day. I said I just won't date somebody that can't manage their time. But what I will do, what I will usually work out with my partner, with my friends, is something along the lines of okay, the show starts at 730. So I think what that means is we have to be on the road by 630. And I imagine it will probably take the two of us an hour to get ready.
Charles:Alarm goes off at 5.30,. We start getting ready. We're going to be on the road by 6.30, and we'll make it in plenty of time for the 7.30 show, where I just lay out the whole. Here are all the milestones on the way to getting to this thing on time, and if you have disagreement with any of those milestones, now's the time where we work it out. Now's the time where we work it out. Now's the time where you say no, I think the two of us can get ready in 45 minutes. I don't think we need to set an hour aside because?
Charles:But if we don't change the milestones now, if we don't have a dispute and a discussion about these markers, then on the day I'm going to expect us to hold to this schedule. Yeah, and that's even yeah. I've even said if I, if we're going on a trip that involves airplanes and stuff like that, here's the time I think we should get to the airport. If you disagree, then I'll meet you at the airport and you're on your own for handling your luggage, getting through security. I'll just meet you at the gate at boarding time.
Charles:And if our views are widely, if there's a big gulf between what time she thinks we need to be there and what time I need to be there, rather than fight about it, I'll just say let's meet at the gate. If we're in the same place, I'm going to get in my car and leave your house at this time. If you're ready to leave your house at this time, then you're more than welcome to ride with me, and if you're not, then you're driving yourself or you're getting an Uber or whatever, but I don't miss flights because I get to the airport late. That's just not something I do.
Dan:How were you with somebody at some point where it was? They were perpetually, ever late. It's always been. I just wonder where you got that really strict boundary from.
Charles:That's a good question I think I have. I think it must've been a thing that I've seen in friends or family, but never in a primary partner, Okay, where I think I probably had to deal with it when I was a kid and I didn't have the agency to say no, I won't stand for this, I'll leave without you. Yeah, and it would always be. Yeah, cause I did have it was showing up for school late, cause I went to a private elementary school where there was no busing. It was your parents drop you off and if you were late, yeah, it's like okay, I'm, I'm catching the shit from my teacher about being late. Do you think that I drove slow? How do you think that this happened?
Dan:if you got a problem with me being late, get on the phone and yell at my parents that's a great point, like why would the teacher they think you're like hanging out in the hallway, like not?
Charles:yeah, this was a small school. There was no hanging out in the hallway, it was. You walked from your parents car right into your classroom real short-sighted on the teachers, exactly. And so I, yeah, and again, if you could quantum leap your current brain into your kid body, I would certainly set my teacher straight on this kind of thing. Listen, you and I don't need to have any interaction about the problem that you have a problem with me being late. There is one person who is responsible for getting me here on time and it is not me. Yeah, I'm not going to listen to this. Yeah, and that would be a boundary that I would set at seven years old if I knew better, right? Yeah, I have a story about a friend of mine who was working to put himself through college.
Charles:He went to a small Christian school, not as small as the one I went to, but a small Christian school and he basically got off work late and showed up to class a little bit late and the professors, their attitude was like, hey, I guess it was like a night class or whatever. Hey, don't you know what time class starts. And he was like, yeah, I pay for this class, I know exactly what time class starts and he was like, yeah, I pay for this class, I know exactly what time it starts and I got here as quick as I could after my job that I used to pay for this class and I will continue to get here as quick as I can and walking quietly and not disrupt you, but I I have to work to pay for this class. So I'm I'm going to work the job and then I'm going to make every effort to be here on time, but if I'm not, I'm still going to walk in the door. So if you have a problem with that, you can lock it and give me a refund.
Dan:I'm guessing the teacher called him out in the middle of the class. Exactly, that's how it happens. You pull him aside, you have a conversation.
Charles:Exactly when you would. Yeah, you're going to humiliate me. You're only here in front of the room because the rest of us are paying you to be here in front of the room. I wish our government remembered that. Yeah, they never will. But yeah, this was a small private school. You're only up at the front of the room because all of us have decided we're willing to pay to hear what you have to say. Yeah, slow your roll, I'm not getting a bunch of scholarships. I. Yeah, slow your roll, I'm not. I'm not getting a bunch of scholarships, I'm not getting a bunch of loans, I'm not getting a bunch of grants. I'm working to put myself through school. Let's not lose sight of this transactional relationship. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I, definitely. I respect that. And again the guy could say I will not tolerate students coming into my class late. I lock the refund.
Dan:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that a little bit more your technique of going through the milestones with people, because I think a lot of times not everybody has the awareness that they should be looking or even realizing what the milestones are in order to get to some place on time. I think a lot of people just have been doing what they can typically do, and I like that because I think you help them then understand oh wait, a minute, I didn't think about this. I didn't think about that, I forgot about this. Whether they're going to acknowledge it or not, I think in the future at least, you're exposing them to thinking through it.
Dan:Going from one place to another isn't as simple as you just walking out the door and at that time, right. And when I was younger, there were periods of time when I thought very close to that and not realizing oh my God, I show up so much later. And it didn't matter how many times I showed up late, it just didn't occur to me until at some point in my life where I needed to be somewhere, where if I wasn't there on time, I might not get paid, I might be fired or whatever. The consequence was intense enough for me to go.
Charles:Oh, I better tense enough for me to go.
Charles:I better and listen.
Charles:I don't think it should be done in an I told you so manner, but it should be brought up If you do, if you lay that out like this is the time I think we need to start getting ready, this is the time we need to be on the road and this is the time the show starts.
Charles:And they don't dispute any of that calendar. They're they're okay with that schedule. And then on the day they don't start getting ready and you don't get on the road in time and you end up showing up to the show, then I think you have a responsibility to say hey, listen, I'm a little disappointed that we both agreed to this schedule and then, when it came time to actually live by the schedule we were both cool with you didn't do it. And now we're walking into this event five minutes after the movie's already started. I'm not okay with that and I'd like to talk about what we can do to avoid that happening this late in the future. And if they blow up at you because of that or they get defensive, then that's their problem. They need to and they may not be a good partner for you, exactly, exactly.
Dan:It sucks because everything else might be great and now you're discovering these little things that on their own, may not be big enough for you to go.
Charles:Okay, you're not the person for me, but you have enough of these over a period of time, yeah and maybe some people can get okay with the idea of all right, my partner and I, we just don't spend a lot of money on things that require us to adhere to a schedule. This is the kind of person that I can only just walk into Chili's whenever we're hungry and we'll wait around and they'll see this, but we're not going on trips, we're not going to concerts and we're not because they just can't get us together. And I would say, after a certain amount of time, it's up to you to either adjust your expectations, or it's up to them to adjust their methods, or it's up to both of you to find better partners. Yeah, a hundred percent, which sucks, but it is the way that it is All right, let's see. That was time.
Charles:Boundaries. When you read all the questions above, what was your emotional response? Not what you think you should have answered, not what you know the intellectual answer to be, but what does your body tell you that the answer actually is? You know the intellectual answer to be, but what does your body tell you that the answer actually is? But yeah, I guess that's a question when we go through these boundaries, can you think of anybody you've got in your life that you don't think is really interested in honoring these boundaries, to the point where you're going to have to either change your expectations or put your foot down.
Dan:Yeah, there are some people in my life that I have not been consistent with communicating my boundaries and so I put that onus on me. I haven't given them the chance to say, okay, I will respect them and I will do this or not, because it just hasn't been communicated, communicated, at least in my own mind, in a way where, hey, it's obvious, this is sometimes as I've behaved here and there. They may have sensed these boundary right things, but to me that's a covert contract, me not laying it out there, right, and just expecting somebody to pick up on it from from my actions and my behavior. So I feel it's on me to to lay out in words, yeah, and make it.
Charles:You know, put it out there I think one of the hardest parts about, uh, boundaries in general is really just being honest with yourself about what's a request and what is something, because boundaries by nature are deal breakers. Like, if it's a boundary that you're willing to say, okay, I will not like people slapping me when they're angry, it's yeah, that is a. That's a deal breaker. So if anybody that's not a request, that's not a boy sure would be great if people wouldn't hit me when they're angry with me. That is, I will burn down. There's no relationship in my life I won't burn to the ground in order to live a life where people don't hit me when they're angry and yeah. But there are other things where it's okay.
Charles:Look this person. It'd be great if they did a better job at X, y or Z. But even if they don't, if the status quo stayed the status quo, I'm still okay with having them in my life in perhaps a more limited capacity than I would prefer. But that's how you balance it out. You're like, okay, if I'm willing to just say it's a preference for me that they would treat me this way, then I'm also willing to say and how close we're ever going to be is going to be limited by the fact that they're not willing to accommodate that request.
Charles:Yeah, so I'm willing to keep it at the request or permeable boundary level, but I know that you know how close of a friend they're going to be, or a business partner or a romantic partner. There's always going to be some distance between the two of us because they're just not willing to do this and I'm not willing to say treat me this way, or else the friendship's over, the partnership's over the whatever's over, and yeah, it's just. The other thing to remember is your relationship with that person is always going to be a little bit in jeopardy when somebody else could come along that is a better friend, better business partner, better romantic partner. If you get vibes from somebody else that, hey, this is a boundary I'm completely on board with respecting and it doesn't have to just be a preference for you, you can decide this is what I deserve, this is what I need, I'm not going to compromise on it, then, yeah, you may find yourself jumping from that person to a better match.
Dan:Yeah, For myself. I know that I've wasted I should say not wasted but I've spent too much time in a relationship where I settled for a flexible, permeable boundary with that person, more so than what was currently being exhibited and you end up or I've ended up spending too much time waiting on that and then also building up little bits of resentment here, so for a covert contract. That's another case here of that where I'm not communicating exactly how much that boundary means to me, because I didn't want to blow the whole thing up and I've been guilty of doing that and just as a course of the the rhetoric or the grammar that we're using, my attitude and I don't she introduces the idea of permeable boundaries.
Charles:But for me, I always I tend to be a black and white thinker, my high conflict personality that we've talked about before. I put it into what either it's a boundary or it's a request. If it's a boundary, again, you're willing to burn down the relationship over it. You're willing to make, you're willing to set an ultimatum that says either I get this or I'm gone. Yeah, where? If you're not willing to do that, then it's just a request. I and I, I see that for sure that I can, I can do the way I look at it. Where it's? When, whenever I have a conversation with a friend where it's like my parent or my boyfriend or my girlfriend, they're not willing to honor this boundary. It's not their job to honor the boundary. If you're not willing to leave the relationship over it, it's a request, correct. Yeah, they're not willing to grant my request. That's okay, because people are allowed to say no to your request, but if it's a boundary, they don't get a choice to say yes or no to it.
Dan:You're the one that says it's a. You know whether it's a boundary or a request, exactly by your behavior exactly, yeah, how they're enforcing it.
Charles:You're saying with your mouth that it's a boundary, but you're demonstrating with your actions that it's just a request and you're fooling yourself and you're torturing yourself by by saying it's a boundary exactly yeah, and then, as you're acting as if they are violating a boundary but nobody can violate a boundary it's like think about it.
Charles:This turn not to get political for no reason, but the southern border of the united states is a request, yeah, yeah and listen, I am a trumper let's build a wall. Let's that? Oh, absolutely not where I am politically, but when you have processes in place that make it a and let me say that is also I, and I usually say to my people that are very anti-immigration and oh, we need to build the wall. What I always say to them is this listen, if we woke up tomorrow and there was as big of a difference between the economic freedom and opportunity between the US and Canada as there is between Mexico and the US, I am putting my family in a van tomorrow and sneaking into Canada and you're not stopping me. I don't care what Canada's laws say, I don't care what the prime minister of Canada says, if their life gets so much better, to the point where the difference between us and them is the difference between Mexico and America. Yeah, I'm sneaking across the border and you're not stopping me. Yeah, no, I get where they're coming from.
Dan:I don't want to make it a political thing. The difference is you're not going to make it Probably true. The Canadian border is no joke.
Charles:Yeah, there's a lot of. There's a lot, of, a lot of cold weather and a lot of very thick forest up there. That makes it a bit tougher to get across, but then again people are dying trying to get across the southern border too. But what I want to say is yeah, if you have a boundary that you talk about being a boundary, but you don't have the skills or the desire to make it a boundary, where you know this is, you do not get to cross this line. And I've sacrificed all these other things that I need to sacrifice to say, yeah, this is a line. Yeah, if you're not willing to do that, then it's a request, it's not a boundary, yeah, and yeah, that's. I do tend to look at that in that black and white way, to say you got to pick what it is. Don't complain about your boundaries when you're not doing all the things on your end that are required for enforcing them.
Dan:And there's a good reason why you might be doing that. We talked about that literally on our walk this morning. Which is what's going on with your sense of what is a normal relationship or whatever that is is. It might be people violating, or people you setting these quote-unquote boundaries, which are actually requests, you getting upset when they don't honor them. But maybe that's your pattern, maybe you experienced that as a child or when you were younger, and that's just what you know. But you keep repeating the same thing. I think a lot of us fall into that. Right, we keep setting ourselves up because that's just what is easiest for our brain to put in place for ourselves. In addition to, we get some sort of good feeling because, even though it may not be good for us, it is familiar and that's what we get used to.
Charles:Yes, and that's certainly not a case of we are not blaming anyone for being in unhealthy, maladaptive relationships. Whether it's a guy who constantly finds women that cheat on him, or it's a girl who finds the same, or guys that are physically or emotionally abusive, it's yeah. There there is. There are maladaptive, unhealthy things at play where your nervous system is convinced no, this is the way it's supposed to be. And again, that's not blaming you for that. That's not a moral failing on your part. You're not doing anything wrong. It's just that's what you were taught. That's where you're conditioned to think is supposed to be the normal way that people interact, and getting out of those patterns and those maladaptive behaviors is nearly impossible.
Dan:It sucks If anything. What we're saying is don't blame yourself. Right, and and because you're never, you're, there's no, you're not going to say if you're feeling bad about how you've gotten to how you are, it's very difficult for you to make any kind of change. Because it's going to be very difficult to make any change. It takes extra energy and extra work.
Charles:And we're here to relieve your blame here, right. So much time and energy into getting yourself healthy that those maladaptive relationships and those maladaptive behaviors turn you off and bum you out where you're like, oh I can't. I just can't do that at the hour. Yeah, and there seems to be no other way to get out of those patterns than to, you know, go to therapy, go to recovery groups, just invest in working on yourself, get coaching, get so healthy that you're like man. That's stuff that I thought that I needed a year ago, that I thought was the only way to be in a relationship with somebody. It bums me out and turns me off now and I just can't turn around and never go back to that way of being anymore, because I've worked out my childhood stuff and I've let go of those coping mechanisms that were not working for me. Yeah, but look, it's most people don't ever do that now because it's hard and they're real hard, all right. Well, that's where we are with our.
Charles:There may have been one other question on batteries that I wanted us to answer. Let me get logged back in. No, I think we covered it. The last one. Was there anything your body reminded you about that you had initially not listed and now I think think you and I got into it. Yeah, where, when our limits are and what we have not been willing to. Because we do tell ourselves frequently, oh, there are these deal breakers. And we will sometimes tell our partner, hey, there are these deal breakers, but we don't actually live as if they're deal breakers because that that blurry, wavy line between reference, request and boundary it's hard to see it. Sometimes when you're in the middle of your relationship and you've got your blinders on, it's hard to take a step back to say, okay, I'm putting up with stuff that I shouldn't be putting up with, or I tell myself I shouldn't be putting up with.
Dan:And it's because on the other side of it, we are getting things. We are probably getting some things that we are enjoying and things are familiar, and so it makes it even more difficult to say I'm gonna let go of all of those things. And I'm. A lot of times you're going to into a black box, you don't know what's on the other side of it, letting just, or a vacuum sometimes. Yeah, you might have a choice, like you said, you might, you might be getting to know somebody else and seeing how things are different. That makes a little bit of an easier choice. I think that's why a lot of people they wait to end relationships until they're almost in a new one. It's a lot easier that way, rather than going to oh my god, I don't know what else is out there, kind of thing yeah, it's.
Charles:It's definitely tough, but they're. Again, if, as long as you're on the path of progress to getting healthier, like there, there are people out there that you can meet, whether it's friends or business associates or romantic partners there. There are people out there that are also working on getting healthy and there will be. It'll be like a lock and key where their ability to meet your needs and your ability to meet their needs and their ability to respect your boundaries and your ability to respect their boundaries.
Charles:Yeah, you can find somebody that that you match up with and it does exist, but it's scary as hell to leave, to let go of that one trapeze. Oh yeah, do all your flips and then just know at some point you're going to grab the other bar. Yeah, it's real tough, but yeah, I think enough people have found their way into successful relationships as a function of their own self-improvement journey that like, oh yeah, it didn't occur to me that there could be somebody else who's working on a lot of the same things I'm working on and we just happen to find each other at the right time. But it's that whole be what you want in a partner.
Dan:Right, yeah, think about it, you are the net that you were building underneath that trapeze. Right, exactly Right. Like you are building yourself up to be that net, that safety net, so that worst case scenario you land on that safety net. You've got the relationship with yourself that you want.
Charles:And spending time alone, by yourself. Is it the scary, worst thing that could possibly happen? Because, yeah, you're not feeling, you're not constantly in the state of I'm so unloved, I'm so unworthy, I'm whatever, that nobody else would want to be with me. You spend some time by yourself. It's like, oh, this isn't actually so bad, I can handle this.
Charles:And yeah, that's the position that you find better friends, better associates and better partners in. When you're like, okay, and the way I've heard successful people even talk about it is, they get themselves to a point where they're like man to let in a romantic partner. Things are going so great by myself, like I have to really decide if it is it worth disrupting my awesome status quo of being single to spend time with a partner. And once you get to that point, that's yeah, you're almost. Not only are you auditioning your partner where it's like they have to be so amazing that it makes sense, but you're finding partners who are doing the same thing where they're also they've also got that great single life where they're auditioning you and yeah, that seems to be where the best friendships and partnerships and romances come out of all right, let's stop there for today, and in our next chapter, let me get to the next one.
Charles:How do the people in your life respond to your boundaries? Okay, so, when you start laying these down, how are people going to react to it and what do you do with those reactions and what are the best ways to communicate those react, those boundaries to other people? So that's where we'll start getting in, looking forward to it, all right, thanks. So me too, dan. We'll talk to you next time, all right, thanks for listening to the entire episode. We sure appreciate it. Check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom. As of this recording, it's pretty much just, uh, our podcast episodes and our video podcast episodes, but we will be adding more content there in the future. So any announcements, updates, anything going on with the show, you can see it there, mindfullymasculinecom. Thanks.
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