75 Not So Hard?

In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan dive into the journey of completing (and almost completing) the intense 75 Hard Challenge. Dan reflects on his success, sharing his highs, struggles, and the mental and physical changes he experienced. Topics covered include:

• Diet and Caloric Challenges: Sticking to a strict diet plan, calorie tracking, and adapting while on vacation.
• Exercise and Routine Building: Keeping up with daily workouts, even in challenging environments like cruises, and the discipline required for outdoor activities.
• Hydration and Healthy Habits: Managing the gallon-a-day water requirement and the surprising benefits of prioritizing hydration.
• Long-term Benefits and Mindset Shifts: From weight loss and increased confidence to building discipline and mental toughness.
• Embracing Discomfort and Voluntary Hardship: Learning from challenging conditions and discovering the value in stepping out of comfort zones.
• Support Systems: The impact of community, mentorship, and accountability on achieving difficult goals.
• Preparation for Live Hard Phases: A look at what’s next, with Dan sharing his plans for phase one of the Live Hard program.

Whether you're curious about the 75 Hard Challenge, interested in the psychological effects of self-discipline, or looking for inspiration on achieving tough goals, this episode is packed with insights and personal stories that highlight the power of persistence and the benefits of a supportive community.

Chapters

• 0:00 75 Hard Challenge Success and Benefits
• 9:07 Preparing for Live Hard Program
• 19:41 Importance of Creating a Strong Why

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome to the Mind Flame Masculine Podcast. This is Charles, okay, in our last episode, dan and I discussed the 75R Challenge and my failed attempt. In this episode, we will discuss his successful attempt, how he completed it, what was easy, what was hard and the lasting benefits he believes that he'll come away with from completing it successfully. Please check our website mindflamemasculinecom for video episodes, audio episodes anything we feel is worth sharing and enjoy the episode. Good morning, hello again, dan. How are you? I'm fantastic good.

Charles: 0:35

Okay, so we have already recorded but not yet released a post-mortem on my 70 heart, 75 heart experience, because I did not go 75 hard, I went 26 soft or something like that. So we'll release that episode where I give up and talk about giving up and failing and all those applicable terms, but you just finished yours successfully. You did the whole thing I did. Congratulations, thank you. Let's talk about, I guess, the main things I want to know is what was harder than you expected, what was easier than you expected and what, what lasting benefits. So cover those and wherever else the conversation takes.

Dan: 1:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was harder than expected was actually sticking to the diet. For me and that and I should. I guess I should have expected that at the beginning, but I gave myself a generous amount of calories and basically I did a if it fits your macros type of diet plan right, so I didn't really care about protein, because the program lets you pick whatever diet you want to do, but it's got to be something somewhat healthy and more restrictive than your normal everyday diet, and no cheap meals and no alcohol.

Dan: 1:44

So what I did was I basically said all right, look, I'm going to eat an average of 2,800 calories per day over these 75 days, and that was a pretty generous amount I felt, based on tracking my calories for other diet programs. But I was always up and down all over the place, depending on what I was doing, and some days I was at 3,500, 4,000 calories, and other days I'd come in at 1,600, depending on what was going on.

Charles: 2:12

That was definitely challenging 210,000 calories for the total challenge.

Dan: 2:17

Thank you for that math. Yes, that's a lot.

Dan: 2:21

So what I do is I create a spreadsheet that was able and I think I've talked about this before was able to then balance out because I knew I wasn't going to be able to do 2,800 calories exactly a day Right, what it was on the days that I went over. It would automatically subtract that from the remaining calories I had for that week or that month, whatever it is, and spread it out Right, but it was always trying to keep me about 2,800 calories a day. So what he did was the last. I'm definitely grateful for the present, but my girlfriend had planned a cruise for us for my birthday, which happened to be the last five days, day 71 through 75 on a freaking cruise. I listen, she couldn't change it without spending a lot of money and, yeah, she invited me anyway. So I just looked at this as it's going to be an extra challenge. Like things start to do, these do start to get easier as they become part of your daily routine, each one of these tasks. But that was a challenge.

Dan: 3:13

I had never been on a cruise before without gaining a ton of weight. I've never been on a cruise before where I was monitoring when I was eating, monitoring when I was drinking. So not only Working out night, even Working out twice Once, monitoring when I was drinking. So not only working out night, even working twice once outside too right, so, yeah, so they had gyms and occasionally I'd go to the gym or whatever, but I had to do this every single day. I had to be outside every single day.

Dan: 3:33

Not only was it the last five days on a cruise ship, I got the drink package and I made use of the drink package for the water, the gallon of water. I had eight to nine bottles, ten bottles of water every every day. So it was great actually. So that was a little bit easier on the cruise because I could go almost anywhere and just get a couple of bottles of water and I'm good. But there's also this thing called Milton, the hurricane that came and, yes, we avoided it, but it meant that we still got a lot of rain. The seas were a little choppy going outside and Am'm this, this is a newer boat. They didn't have a track that goes all the way around the boat. No, there were seat. There was seating outside that went almost all the way around the boat. When we were at sea for my workout I had to do a 95 circle around the boat and kind of navigate around chairs and and walls and things like that. Look, it wasn't that big of a deal, but it was raining a couple of times too.

Charles: 4:28

Did just going outside and finding a spot to do jumping jacks. Did that occur to you or would you have hated that? I would have hated that. Yeah, I would have hated that.

Dan: 4:35

But then we went to one of the islands and we got off. We were able to walk around. My girlfriend was amazing and she supported me. She'd always do the outdoor workout. She always did the outdoor workout with me and that walk around the island. So it was great because then we got to check out what was going on, all the activities and all the things you could do on the island through the workout. So there was these nice little benefits In terms of what was easier for me than I expected was probably the water, because I had been drinking quite a bit so that I never really struggled with that or the 10 pages a day of reading.

Charles: 5:08

Yeah, yeah, something you're really close to doing is going to be the easiest.

Dan: 5:12

So I again I stopped reading books. I was always listening to them, so I thought that would be more of a challenge. But I actually started to really enjoy that kind of peaceful moment that I had to schedule in for myself in the morning to get those 10 pages in.

Charles: 5:25

Okay, and what? What are you looking at as a long-term benefit or benefits from doing this Like where do you because you don't look any better?

Dan: 5:33

Yeah, I did. So. I did lose about 13 pounds again from the time I came back from our trip to Armenia. I was carrying a lot of water weight. Yeah, I do feel like I. I my pants size has gone down, and so my pants and my shorts are fitting a little bit, and I actually ran into a situation on the boat where I ran out of belt holes and so my pants were hanging on me a little. So that was 75 days of working out and monitoring my calories, so I lost a little bit of weight there and in the places I wanted to. So I was happy about that, and that's what all of us should be using to measure our progress when it comes to weight loss, not the scale. Pause the scale, because it doesn't show you and even if it does do body fat, it's not exactly accurate and it's just going to bring you down and get an old pair of jeans, get something that used to fit.

Dan: 6:29

I did get into routines that forced me to be more diligent and honoring the appointments I made with myself in my schedule. So I've been for years making like these appointments on my calendar to do things that are beneficial to me, either health wise or if I'm trying to start up my coaching business, whatever that is, and tasks for those things. There was more on the line here with the 75 hard for me. So I was forced to look at my calendar and honor it more often when I had these appointments to do these 75 hard tasks. And by doing that that also forced me to be more diligent about anything else that I wanted to do right. And it also showed me that when I was out doing an outdoor workout and it was raining outside and I needed to get it done and I'd walk past like one other person on my route, whereas normally I'm walking by 10, 15, 20 people on a sunny day, the rain. There was like a little bit of a camaraderie when we were, when we passed each other, and it was just a sense of pride and that does build up over time. And you do find ways when you get bored and you find ways to challenge yourself a little bit more mentally in a way, and sometimes that's through physical exertion, like seeking out maybe a little bit of bad weather to do that outdoor workout once in a while, or finding ways to push yourself a little bit more in the gym. Whatever that is, you start to build that baseline level of confidence and almost seeking out that discomfort and that and walking consistently, I come up with a lot of creative ideas. I come up with a lot of solutions. So by forcing myself to walk every day, that helped build some solutions is the best way to put it and some ideas for things that I'm working on, my personal projects, and it motivated me in that respect.

Dan: 8:34

What also helped was reading that book from Frizzella, and so it is. Not it's a thick book, it's a quick read, it's big font, but there are things in there that he mentions that resonated with me in terms of why it's important to do some of these things, and it did motivate me to want to do the 75 hard and finish it, as well as continue on with the Live Hard program. There's three additional phases after 75 hard and yeah, it's knowing he's gone through this. I've also in his circle. There's a few people that he mentions in that book. I have been exposed to some of those other authors and people. So Brad Lee is one of them and, as I've listened to Dean Graziosi, he's mentioned 75 Hard or similar concepts. So I'm seeing a lot of overlap in the different people that I'm listening to in terms of personal development. So that's definitely helping enrich we talked about that all the time when you're hearing the same message from multiple different sources that you respect, there's some sort of value there, right? And I've been through that, listening to a lot of podcasts and audio books and things I've been pulling that in. So that's gotten me excited about it and just also changed my mind, my state of mind, to talk about less of the things that I want to do and actually start doing them and not talking about them as much, because I feel in the past I've actually done myself a disservice by talking about them. I've exerted energy on them and fooled myself into thinking I'm actually doing them when I'm not actually doing them. I'm just talking about them and fantasizing about them, right.

Dan: 10:16

I think I felt a shift during 75 Hard in terms of realizing shut your mouth and start doing the work and then talk about it a little bit more. Once it's done, you have something tangible to talk about. I've always had that little inkling, but this really solidified me and I think that's the biggest difference maker for me by doing that 75 hard and Frisella talks about that in the book too in terms of there's a lot of people who will talk about doing things but don't actually do them. And the value in the world that you bring to the world comes in action and not just ideas. And I know I've spent too much time in thinking about ideas because it feels great, I do it, I love brainstorming, I love it, but when it comes time to the action, that's where this program is by making me uncomfortable, intentionally, multiple times. When I feel that uncomfortable heart when it comes to taking action, I now have the confidence and the tools and the skillset and the will to overcome and keep going.

Charles: 11:18

Okay, I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, I, congratulations. I can definitely speak to how easy it isn't to finish because they're yeah, and you can listen to. That episode of the gallon of water got me to give up and it and I gave up before. I didn't really have to do a single walk in the rain. It just it worked out where I was able to keep my eye on.

Charles: 11:44

That wouldn't have been a problem for you. I don't think. Look at every morning I would say, hey, google, good morning, and it would tell me the news, the weather, all that stuff, and it's. If it was going to rain in the morning, then I would just be like, okay, I'll do my walk at night, and if it rained at night, I'll do my walk in the morning and just dodge it that way. But I certainly never got to the point where I was looking forward to walking in the rain and don't know if I would have or not. Not sure about that. But yeah, it's, it's a good program and I think if you can push yourself to do it, I'm sure you feel very accomplished, having finished something. That a lot more people start than finish, that's for sure. In this room, the rate's only 50%.

Dan: 12:19

A lot of the things I was, to be fair, I was doing them for, being a diabetic, I needed to track my calories. It wasn't challenging for me to stick to the 20 under calories because a lot of times if you set some sort of diet program like that, there's a lot more involved other than just changing what you're eating. You need to track it, and that's another habit that you have to develop right and being diligent about that right, and that takes time and energy. If you haven't already created that habit, that didn't take any time or energy for me I didn't, that's something that I already did. Right, drinking that much water. I was almost drinking almost that much water anyway. Again, very little change in terms of that. That being said, if I came from a place where I wasn't doing any of those things to begin with, that takes away time and energy from being able to do the other things for 75 hard, as well as all the other things in life, right. So I can see that it's an extremely difficult program to do, depending on where you're starting from. So, that being said, I am going to try to continue on and do the live hard program.

Dan: 13:21

Where you're doing a phase one, you're adding three additional tasks to the 75 hard cold shower for five minutes every morning, right. You have to set your. You have to set your visualization and your intentions for 10 minutes at night and think about what you want for your future, right? And then the other part of that is you have to add three critical tasks that will move your life forward and get that done every day, right. So all of those things, those are going to be challenging.

Dan: 13:46

So, for example, my shower doesn't get cold enough here at the house, so I have to shower at the gym. I don't normally even go to the locker room in the gym. Now I have to properly prepare everything for the gym, including the time it's going to take to shower before I start work. So I'm adjusting so many different things in my life and thankfully this is only 30 days, but still it's 30 days in a row and that's going to be a challenge for me. I think phase one I'm concerned about me finishing phase one based on this. Reading that book really helps set what his intention is for this. So it's not just about checking a box. It's the mental changes that you need to create that are extremely uncomfortable, and he facilitates that through the physical uncomfortableness, and so once you realize that you should be feeling uncomfortable and not looking forward to it and dreading these showers that's where you're supposed to be dread might feel like a little stronger so it'd be.

Dan: 14:46

He interviews. He interviews like navy seals and elite, you know, elite military people, and one of the questions that he asked was or somebody asked them was how do you prepare for freezing waters and how do you get comfortable with it? And the SEAL was like you never get comfortable, yeah.

Dan: 15:00

If it's hard enough. You're never going to be ready for it. And the point is he makes is in life, there will always be things that you're not going to be ready for, there's always going to be things that make you extremely uncomfortable. So try to introduce those elements when you have some element of control.

Charles: 15:16

Right yeah, voluntary hardship.

Dan: 15:18

Right, so that you know how to handle it and you don't need to think as hard and you don't suffer as much, or you can get back on the horses very quickly, right?

Charles: 15:26

Congratulations. Thank you, I'm proud of you. Thank you.

Dan: 15:29

You're the one who gave me this idea. Yeah, and I appreciate that. That's it really. It's, yeah, but I yeah, I'm grateful to you for for introducing me to it and you saw some value in it and, yeah, it's been one of the biggest mindset shifts for me that I can remember. Yeah, I can't say I enjoyed every minute of it, but there's more of it that I enjoy than after, than not, I for sure.

Charles: 15:57

Yeah.

Dan: 15:57

Yeah, oh, what I was going to say with the live hard. So the live hard program I'm actually going to. I'm taking a month off. You can take as much time off as you want in between 75 hard and phase one, uh, and so I'm taking about a month off and I'm actually going to do the last week of before I start phase one. I'm going to simulate all the things I need to do for phase one so that I can work out the kinks and I can reduce the friction that it's going to cause, so that I'm more likely to be successful, so I can go and have all of the right things.

Dan: 16:28

I might be missing something that I need in the mornings that I bring with me to the gym. I can go and have all the right things. I might be missing something that I need in the mornings that I bring with me to the gym. I might not. Maybe the gym showers don't get that cold, like I haven't tried that yet, right, yeah, so maybe I need to find somewhere else to go instead. Yeah, so I'm literally practicing that. So my piece of advice is anybody who's going to attempt any actual diet program or big change is before you set your mind where you're saying okay, this is the date that I'm starting. We all do that Right.

Charles: 17:01

And I would figure out what it is that you've got coming.

Dan: 17:04

Practice that before you set that mind, your mind in that state, because that when you do that, I feel like you're also then setting the bar of what failure is Right. And I would say is one, practice as much as you can of that thing before you say I'm officially starting. And two, maybe also think about in advance is if this doesn't work for me or if I fail for whatever reason, what kinds of things can I do then afterwards? What kinds of what does that recovery look like? How much time am I going to give myself before starting something else or starting that over again? Or what adjustments am I willing to make if I'm not exactly compliant with what I'm setting that bar up to? If you have those tools in your back pocket before you even start, I feel like you're a lot more likely to be successful in your bigger goal, whatever that might be.

Charles: 18:01

Yeah, and also just and this is something that you learn when you're a weightlifter and you're trying to specifically focus on not just the aesthetics of looking better but getting stronger and getting new PRs training yourself to understand what almost failing feels like is very valuable. And with 75 hard getting ready for it and okay, what does it feel like when I've had a busier day with work than I expected and now I have to go walk two and a half miles at 11 o'clock, right before I go to bed, and just knowing what it feels like to say, hey, okay, I haven't officially started yet, but this is what it feels like to realize oh crap, it's 11 o'clock and I haven't done my outside workout yet. And then either getting up and doing it or choosing okay, I'm on the dress rehearsal, so I don't have to do it, so I'm going to skip it.

Dan: 18:52

And then just knowing what that feels like before it's actually on the line is valuable, so that brings me up to another point of a thing that was very valuable for me to learn was to get all of those things, all the tasks for 75 hard done as early in the day as possible yeah, not doing that with the water is what killed me yeah, and I was gonna say between that, but, like when I had flights, I flew out to visit my buddy, my buddy mike, for his 50th, and there was a time zone it was the pacific time zone and I my flight out the next day or back to east coast was like 9 30 am, but it's but.

Dan: 19:29

But the point is, though, like I needed to get as much done before my flight in the morning, because, who knows, it's a long flight, who knows if it gets delayed when I land, who knows what kind of energy I'm gonna have.

Dan: 19:41

I literally, yeah, got up at freaking 2 am in order to get the workout. I did a walk, oh, I did a walk, no, I did, yeah, I did my workout in the gym. And so what was nice was another thing I figured out when you're traveling, get a room on the same floor as the gym and ideally close to the gym. Make sure that gym is open 24 hours, if you can. That made it so much easier for me to one also get free water, because they have the water filtered water in the gym instead of having to pay for it, and also, getting over to the gym was really easy. It was just literally a two second walk versus having to go to the elevator, all these little things. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but when you're tired and exhausted it's a real easy way for your brain to grasp onto that and go. That's too much work.

Dan: 20:22

I'm not going to, I'm going to give up, kind of thing. Right, reduce that friction. Yeah, I worked out in the gym at two in the morning. You have to be three hours before that walk. Then I was able to then go on my walk in the dark and at five. But what was nice was it wasn't dangerous, it was in a corporate, it was near a corporate park. Okay, gotcha, I got lucky. I didn't plan it that way, but it was nice. There was like a lot to look at. I felt safe at any time of the day, even though it was. I had no idea what the neighborhood was like, yeah, and I was able to get done by six and then all I had to do was work on my water most of the day. I got the reading done in day at that time. You have a lot of energy at that time. Uh, yeah, get it done, get done.

Charles: 21:13

First, eat that frog did me in with the water it was there were a lot of days where I had not started on my water till two in the afternoon. Oh yeah, okay. So now, not only is it the inconvenience of drinking all this water, it's the misery of knowing okay, I've got to rush through this, I'm going to be peeing nonstop, and yeah, I just couldn't get myself to care enough to start early on in the day, and so this is a great example. I set myself up for failure, not success.

Dan: 21:42

This is a great example of how sneakily doing anything new really is more difficult than we realized, because it affects more things than we realized. So for you, you've got some long drives, and so I know why you didn't want to drink that water before you left on that drive, because now it required. If you did, you would have had to pull over much more often than you were used to go to go use the facilities right. Also, sitting there being uncomfortable driving. And now it's not a cup because you have to pee, and maybe you can't pull over right away to pee. So it's, you're not feeling as good and it takes longer now to get to the office, so that means you need to leave earlier. So now, okay, so you got to leave earlier. How does that affect your morning? What else, what other things now are you not able to do or need to reschedule around your morning.

Charles: 22:41

The worst was the days where I was living in Bradenton and driving here in the morning for a podcast and I literally had to stop five times between Right. So it was much easier to just say I'll just have my normal coffee and stop once, and then I'll start on the water once I get to Dan's house, and then we got busy talking, we got busy recording and yeah, next thing you know it's one or two in the afternoon and I haven't really touched my gallon jug of water yet.

Dan: 23:01

And I think a lot of the other thing was real quick.

Charles: 23:04

Yeah, I also just wasn't bought in. I didn't buy it. I didn't buy that. It was important oh, the why it has to be there and purpose on the water.

Dan: 23:10

It was absolutely not there when we are doing these things. So let's say we're preparing for a trip or something like that and we're making a change, that one time where you might need to get up a little bit earlier and change your schedule or whatever, isn't a big deal, but when you have to do that every single day, multiple A's, it's a big deal. It becomes a really big deal. That being said, too, is if your why is not clear, if your why isn't strong enough, and if you haven't made it to the point of where it becomes emotional for you. Right?

Dan: 23:47

We talked about like the seven levels deep exercise I learned from Dean Graziosi, which is you keep asking yourself why it's important to you. You go seven times and the shift is on the surface when you first started asking you those questions. It's a mental. It's a mental why. It's a mental purpose, why. But then, if you keep going down and down, at about the fifth or sixth question of why it's important to you, it moves from your head to your heart. Now it becomes emotional and, as we all know, we're emotional beings and that's what really drives us right.

Dan: 24:18

Yeah sure If you haven't really thought it through and done that exercise right. So you know the water. For me it wasn't like oh, this is driving my purpose right, or the why, but it was tied to the overall knowing that if I failed at this one thing, the 75 hard program is a failure too. Right, that's what made it important to me, because the overall accomplishment of the 75 hard program is a failure too. That's what made it important to me because overall accomplishment of the 75 hard hit me in an emotional place of where I really need to get this thing done. Part of that, I'll be honest with you, was me turning 50. Okay, yeah, that was a bit. It's a big number, right? Yeah, Hopefully.

Charles: 24:57

I won't have to worry about being dramatic like that.

Dan: 25:00

So part of that was that part of it was looking back and going, ok, I'm turning 50. Did you have you really push yourself and become and done the things that you're capable of doing, or have you just popped out on it and not really been your best self? And that was what was really driving me. Was I'm going to do this for my 50th birthday to prove to myself that I can deal with uncomfortable stuff? Because I felt I haven't had to deal with a lot. And that kind of goes back to a lot of the things that I've been hearing.

Dan: 25:32

A lot of these stories of really successful people have had some significant hardship in their life to draw from. And Tom Bilio, who founder of Quest Nutrition Bars he talks about going to the dark side and dabbling in there once in a while. In order to really do things that you don't want to do, you need to find something that causes you pain or caused you pain, to pull from that as motivation. And that was really interesting to me to hear that because I definitely felt and that be beneficial to myself or beneficial to help other people or whatever. Motivating, yes, but it's just not as strong. And so through that process I've recognized a couple of points in my life where I did feel really bad about myself or somebody. There's a situation where I felt really bad that I was able to then draw from when I really did not want to do some of this. Yeah that. So look for those pain points to pull from. Don't dwell in them by any means. But for me, I absolutely I see that it fits. It fits for me that the carrot and stick model is mostly stick.

Dan: 26:58

It's pain avoidance and a lot of times even the that ecstasy in things is some sort of mask of avoiding some sort of pain. So it might be hey, you didn't grow up with a lot of money and you suffered. Maybe your heat got turned off as a kid or you had to move to different places or you always wanted a toy that you couldn't have. A lot of pain, didn't have enough food to eat, to eat whatever that is, and maybe now is. You get really excited when you're making a lot of money and that it feels great, but that's a security. Now you have that security, like you never have to worry about having the heat turn off or not having enough money for food, right, and that's actually the pain that you're avoiding by having that that, those wonderful things that get you excited at the big house, the car, whatever that is All right.

Charles: 27:43

So yeah, if I'll go ahead and volunteer. Dan, if you're somebody who is interested in 75 hard or has tried and failed and you'd like a little tiny bit of free advice, email dan at mindfullymasculinecom. If you want a lot of detailed advice, be prepared to open your wallet.

Dan: 28:01

I'm happy to help and just have conversations about it and share my experiences and help you prepare and help you make adjustments as well. So that's where my skillset really lies.

Charles: 28:09

Yeah, I would say. Even the first time I tried it I also gave up on it because of the water, but I only went four days. And the second time I went like 26 or 27 days and I don't see myself trying it again, cause I again, maybe something will change where I I I recalculate the value in it, but until that happens I'm not going to try it again.

Dan: 28:29

Well, let me ask you what do you think the difference was between the four days and the 26 days?

Charles: 28:33

Going through at the same time as you and talking and having somebody talk to you about it. Yeah, I think that was.

Dan: 28:47

So community support is a big part of anything that you're trying to do as well, right and somebody that's a big element for moving forward with success is getting that community support Also having, I think, a mentor to look to for advice and guidance, and for me that was Frazella in that book. He talked about what he did for his specific each of those areas. That was what was helpful for me.

Charles: 29:05

I think we can stop there. You and I have an appointment to do some paperwork which we'll clue everybody else in on down the road, but it's going to be a busy weekend for both of us. Oh my God, Looking forward to telling stories about afterward.

Dan: 29:17

It's going to be a busy week between now and next week as well, Not just for me, for you for sure.

Charles: 29:23

We'll get into some details on that. Maybe next Wednesday we'll be back here. We'll be recording some episodes. Wow, there's going to be a lot to talk about. Yes, on the next episode I'll have about 2,000 miles road miles between now and then to talk about. That'll be fun. We'll get into some and very different types of miles. Absolutely All right, cool, all right. I'll talk to you again soon, dan. All right, bye-bye, bye. Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode of the Mindfully Masking Podcast. I'm sure Dan would appreciate you hearing every aspect of his success, unless you fast forward to the end for some reason and you're just listening to the outro, which is weird, but still appreciated. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom for episodes as well as any news we have worth sharing, and thanks so much.