A Mind of Her Own

In this insightful episode of the Mindfully Masculine podcast, Charles and Dan explore key concepts from Dr. John Gottman’s The Man's Guide to Women. Delving into the complexities of hormonal rhythms, they discuss how understanding these rhythms can improve partner communication and strengthen relationships. They also cover themes such as emotional safety, fear in relationships, and the impact of behaviors on a partner's sense of security.

Key Discussion Points:

• Understanding Hormonal Rhythms: Exploring how hormonal changes impact mood, social engagement, and emotional needs in women, along with tips on fostering a supportive relationship.
• Effective Communication: Tips for recognizing and adapting to partner needs, debunking stereotypes about “emotional” vs. “logical” traits, and finding balance in expressing both alpha and beta qualities.
• Navigating Fear and Safety: Insights into how fear affects women’s daily experiences and relationship dynamics, and practical ways men can create a sense of safety.
• Impact of Physical and Emotional Traits: A discussion on how traits like shoulder-to-waist ratio may influence initial attraction and perceptions of safety.
• Birth Control and Relationship Dynamics: Understanding how hormonal birth control can affect attraction and dynamics within long-term relationships.

Episode Highlights:

• The importance of “reading the room” and adjusting your behavior based on your partner’s emotional state.
• How to use knowledge of partner rhythms in ways that build trust and support rather than create tension.
• The significance of physical, emotional, and relational safety for both partners.

Connect with Us:
For more insights, episode updates, and community discussions, visit MindfullyMasculine.com.

Keywords:
Men’s relationship advice, Dr. John Gottman, hormonal rhythms, partner communication, emotional safety, physical safety, relationship dynamics, fear in relationships, alpha and beta traits, mindful masculinity.

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Men and Women's Differences
• 11:55 Cycle Tracking and Relationship Dynamics
• 21:20 Women's Fear and Safety Awareness
• 25:27 Creating Emotional Safety in Relationships
• 28:58 Understanding Rhythmicity and Fear Conditioning
• 37:04 Navigating Relationship Dynamics and Boundaries

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. In this episode, dan and I will continue to discuss the Man's Guide to Women by Dr John Gottman and we'll talk about hormonal rhythms in women, effective partner communication, so-called alpha and beta traits, fear and safety in relationships, the impact of partner's behavior on emotional safety, observations on physical traits and perceived safety, the influence of hormonal birth control on relationship dynamics, practical partner etiquette tips and other topics. Please check out our website, mindflammasculinecom, for our audio and video episodes, as well as any other info we find worth sharing. Thanks, good morning Charles. Hey there, dan. How are you? Fantastic. How are you? Oh, not too bad. I am. Here's my first day driving from the new campground to here.

Dan: 0:52

How far is that?

Charles: 0:52

drive now A little less than two hours, depending on how well I-.

Dan: 0:57

The haul, holy cow, what and before it was closer to three, closer to three, yeah, yeah.

Charles: 1:03

Yeah, the drive here is about two. The drive from where I'm at to Jacksonville is about two and a half and from where I'm at to my client in St Pete is about an hour and 20. Okay, so, all right, it's not nothing. It's a step up in just about every way that matters to me. Yeah, I'll take it 25 minutes from the girlfriend's house, which is also helpful.

Dan: 1:25

How far were you from her before?

Charles: 1:27

Hour 20.

Dan: 1:27

Okay, that's a big difference.

Charles: 1:33

I think I'll like the place. So let's jump into our material. We're on chapter two of the Man's Guide to Women by Dr John Gottman and others, and this chapter is an interesting one because it gets into the differences between the male and female brain and some more of the anatomy and physiology that goes beyond the brain but can be the topic that can be easily mishandled and you can. You can get silly with some assumptions and some definitions, and certainly the way you use this information in conversation with a partner can be a little a little rough, and I'm glad that they go into that detail. Yeah, the first thing they will say is that human brains are all pretty much similar to each other, regardless of other characteristics of the person that you take them out of. Generally, male brains are a little bigger, about 10% bigger. I think you said yeah, they are, Because exactly what I'm talking about? Because male bodies are typically 10% bigger.

Dan: 2:27

Right and has no effect on the actual use.

Charles: 2:30

No, there's and ability of the brain. There has been a lot of work done on the mission abilities of men versus women, and what they find is pretty much the same, yeah, so we will also talk about the way we use our brains can be quite a bit different, and I think that's a mix of both, like everything, a mix of biology and culture. So we will also talk about the way we use our brains can be quite a bit different, and I think that's a mix of both, like everything a mix of biology and culture, what is okay to think about, what is okay to act on.

Charles: 3:00

Our culture will certainly give us those definitions, and those can be either healthy or unhealthy, depending on who we're around and when we're born and what country we're in and who's in charge, and all those things are factors as far as what is deemed to be proper masculine or feminine behavior. I see, if you participate in any online discussion that gets into this area at all, you're going to see many tropes and many cliches about, particularly about how women are emotional and men are logical, and it's almost ironic that the men who say it the most are having what seems like some sort of an emotional breakdown while they're screaming about how emotional women are.

Dan: 3:36

Yeah, yeah, no, somebody, somebody much smarter than me, had said something that we are. We are not. We are not beings with emotions, we are basically emotional, emotional beings having an experience, right, something like that, like a human experience. We are not humans with emotions, we are something like.

Charles: 3:54

We're not thinkers who feel, we're feelers basically that's what I'm trying to say.

Dan: 3:58

yeah, we all have those. Yeah, we basically emotions are really control a lot of our behavior and a lot of things that control emotions are our hormones and how they fluctuate both on both sides. But the one, one of the big things that I took away from this chapter was the just the concept that women operate more on a rhythmic pace when it comes to a lot of things in life. But he specifically mentions and goes through the menstrual cycle and how that is a rhythm. Just the way our bodies have a circadian rhythm for eating and sleeping, women also are dealing with a menstrual cycle, which also has a rhythm to it, and there's certain characteristics and traits that, generally speaking, again, every woman is different, but will some behaviors and some thoughts and actions happen a little bit more frequently depending on where they are in the menstrual cycle, and I thought that was very interesting.

Charles: 4:58

Yeah, it is interesting and it's one of those things where all knowledge can be used for good or for evil. And so, if you want to take a little bit of time, reading this chapter was less than 20 minutes and you can pretty much know everything you need to know to understand how a woman's menstrual cycle is going to affect her mood, how friendly she is, how outgoing she is, and then you can choose to either use that against her because you're not satisfied with what you're getting from her, or you're frustrated, or you don't, or you're confused or you can use that in a way that benefits her and you and your relationship. Yeah, and that's certainly what the author is recommending that you can understand that. Okay, in the first two weeks of her cycle, she as her progesterone is increasing. I believe that's going to lead her to be more friendly, more talkative, more outgoing, socially relaxed and more emotionally sensitive. During the second two weeks, okay, no estrogen peaks during the first two progesterone peaks. During the second two she could be more irritable, more stressed, less calm.

Dan: 6:01

When the progesterone is going Right before her menstrual cycle, right before she has her period Correct.

Charles: 6:06

Yeah, and it's interesting that will also.

Dan: 6:09

So it'll change what she's looking for from you as far as a person that lives in the house with her, and it could be it could change the kind of behavior that she's looking for from you as her mate as well, and that was the biggest eye-opener for me, which was that the needs of what she's looking for, or what's going to make her feel the best in terms of how I interact as a partner, changes based on the menstrual cycle, and so just knowing that you need to be flexible and read the room right and try to understand what's going on with her Just puts me in the right frame of mind to go hey, listen, just because this me acting this way or saying this thing worked for me and worked for us Two weeks ago Two weeks ago.

Dan: 6:57

there's no guarantee, and when it doesn't work, I don't need to get upset or frustrated, right and confused. Hey, why isn't this working? Hey, maybe it's because of where she is with her hormones, and so that actually was a I don't want to say a beef, but some sort of yeah. It reduces a little bit of the pressure off of me to think that I will all like, just, I do this one thing. It's always going to be the right thing, and once I have it figured out, I'm always going to use and guys and engineers or whatever, we want a solution right, we want to find the system right and then just not have to think about it. This is basically saying, hey, you can't do that, and just knowing that you shouldn't be just creating a system of whatever that looks like and operating the same way. That's what's not going to work, and so just be aware of that. So put that system away and go. Ok, you know what? I need to be a little bit more open, get some feedback here and adjust Right.

Charles: 7:58

Just knowing that I need to do that already was a great eye opener and I got a ton of value out of that yeah, I think I can't remember a time where I've used the, the bad version of the knowledge of a woman's cycle, against her and he offers the wrong way is to say something like seems every month or so you have yourself a pity party. I say, just get over it. Oh, my god, you've got it pretty easy as I see it.

Dan: 8:21

Yeah, that's what you I feel like that's an extreme out of a movie or a television show right where the guys. But there's probably somebody.

Charles: 8:29

I mean, you can imagine it, somebody's probably saying it for sure, for sure where the better version of that.

Charles: 8:35

It sounds to me like you're feeling really sad at the moment. Talk to me. I want to hear what you're thinking and feeling right now. Yeah, which you know is uh, I probably never. I don't think I've said either of those to a woman, the good one or the bad one. No, and uh, I, I think I'm I'm more likely to uh, make it about me. She's having a hard time because of her menstrual cycle. It's gonna be. Why are you not satisfied with me? What am I doing wrong?

Dan: 8:59

and it could have nothing to do with, and try to fix.

Charles: 9:02

Yeah, yeah, just let her have her experience. Yeah and yeah. And there is one thing in addition to that sort of extreme example that may be too extreme, but again, it's too extreme for us. But I'm sure there's a woman listening to this right now. Who's? Oh, yeah, my, my husband said stuff like that to me before. The other thing where he says in traditional cultures there is often a place where menstruating women could go to be alone during this time of the month, where they could be relieved of tasks and have time for introspection and reflection. That seems like a little bit of whitewashing. What was probably going on was some dare I use the word patriarchal religion was like ew, you're bleeding, you're gross, you're uncultured, could be, you have to get away from us.

Dan: 9:42

Yeah.

Charles: 9:43

You're sick or whatever, right? Yeah, more likely that in traditional cultures, yeah, where this was not a, let's affirm the women of our tribe by giving them this special prepared place, it was more like the sun. God doesn't like that. Blood's coming. Yeah, yeah, you have to go off and live at a separate part until you're over this, right?

Dan: 10:03

yeah, yeah, when he was talking about that, he also mentioned that typically when women are in the last two weeks right before their menstruation is when the protestant's high is that they like to be alone, right, and so that was also a big eye opener for me and put me at ease thinking.

Dan: 10:22

A good women that I'm close to want to be alone I and for me to handle especially so I know that realized that allowed me to then just be able to form a perspective where I am not so tied to the outcome, right, if she's not responding to something, if I'm making, if I'm making an effort in some way or another, whether it's to communicate with her or whatever that is, and she's a little standoffish or whatever. Now I don't immediately go to oh my god, she's upset with me. I did something, it I'm allowing. I'm coming from the mindset of she just needs maybe this space, she just needs some time to be alone and it's okay and not jump to conclusions or rush to assumptions that I've done something wrong and she's just not communicating with me about it or whatever it is it's.

Dan: 11:12

This chapter has definitely helped me form the structure in my mind to just create the space to be supportive and just allow her to have that space and time and whatever that looks like, and then let her come back to me and reengage with me whenever she feels like it's time. And, looking back, every time I've done that, intentionally or unintentionally, that's what's happened. I've given some time and space and eventually she comes back and and I feel a little bit closer and more connected to her. So yeah, and it he, he explains it in a way that really resonated with me with me as well, and and sometimes it's hard to know I I don't know that.

Charles: 11:55

I would recommend guys put a period tracker on their phone so they could keep really close track of their girlfriend or partner cycle. But that is is one option. The other option is and I generally shy away from platitudes and cliches, but the one that does seem to hold true is that women are like cats when they want attention, they'll let you know that they want attention, and when they don't, don't chase after them, don't force it either.

Dan: 12:21

Yeah, because that's just going to potentially make things worse. But if you're not in a positive situation. So, totally transparent. I don't have a period tracker, but I have a calendar reminder that pops up that says, hey, my girlfriend's period might be coming soon. And what that does is it reminds me to get into a state of mind where I'm more patient. I look for things. It helps me, remind me to maybe do go a little bit above and beyond, trying to be sweet, trying to also be more patient. If she happens it doesn't always happen, but if she's a little short with me, it just gets me in the right mindset that, hey, I need to be in my best self, I need to be in a state where I am patient and kind and an extra patient, extra kind, extra loving at this time, because there could be times where she might snap at me and it's got nothing. And just as a reminder for me to be in that right state of mind and set my intentions properly. And that's actually helped me quite a bit.

Charles: 13:26

Yeah, I've noticed some differences in partners around the time that they were either experiencing their period or ovulating. And yeah, he's right on in this chapter where it does make a difference in the kind of behavior you'll see from them and it also makes a difference in the kind of behavior that they're looking for you to demonstrate.

Dan: 13:45

And it's interesting that he uses some commonly used terms alpha and beta male when it comes to the different times of a woman's cycle in terms of what kind of man she's looking for. Right, and that you need to be both. That was another eye opener. Yes, so there's nothing wrong with necessarily being a beta male and you can overdo it. So there's nothing wrong with necessarily being a beta male and you can overdo it. So that's always the thing. I think a lot of not always, but I think that's what a lot of guys get confused out in the manosphere out there is. They always think beta is bad and alpha is good, but then at the same time, you get feedback you're too beta, and then we tend to swing to one extreme or the other and then when we go to the one, thinking, all right, I'm finally, I was beta, now I'm a super alpha, then you get criticized for being too much, and I think that's where he does a great job of explaining it is. You need to have that quality.

Charles: 14:43

You have both qualities in you and know when to use them. Yes, I took that away from this chapter as well. That it really does come down to if you build up a whole facade of trying to be one kind of guy all the time where you're committed to playing this park 24 7, then there's nobody that's going to want to be with you all the time for the long term. If you're constantly you know, oh, I'll just be a nice guy all the time, and then girls will like me. Or I'll just be a stone cold alpha all the time, and then girls will like me. It's like nothing works all the time for anybody. And that's another thing.

Charles: 15:16

I thought that the manosphere gets wrong and that he makes, uh, a point in I believe it's in this chapter to say you gotta be willing to say, hey, I'm picking up something right now. I don't know exactly what it is. What is it that you need from me? Yeah, because a good portion of the manosphere will tell you something along the lines of women don't know what they want. Don't ask them what they want. Just here's what women want. Just do this.

Dan: 15:40

Yeah, you know why? It's because we're lazy, not, not men, humans. We're trying to conserve energy. It's a lot easier. Shortcut, it's a lot easier. Yeah, exactly where I'm going with. Yeah, it's okay here. Here are rules, and once you've memorized the rules, you don't exert any more energy, right? How much more time and effort does it take to actually ask the person a question and pay attention to what they're saying and then act based on that feedback? Just me explaining that takes more energy than saying follow rules literally, and so I think that's why we're always, like you said, we're looking for shortcuts, we're looking to save energy. So it's either always be an alpha or always be a beta, but in either case, you are doing the easy route and you're not actually addressing what reality is by asking questions and acting based on the feedback thing the alternative to rules is okay.

Charles: 16:31

I've gotta put in this work to be trustworthy, to be strong, to be confident, to be nurturing, to be funny, to be easygoing, to be all these other things that not many people actually are, because it gets really hard to turn into that from whatever you came out of your childhood as to turn into this ideal man that has the potential to be a good partner. It's a lot of work.

Dan: 16:59

Yeah, the good news is, the more you practice those types of things where you're asking questions, you get into a routine of asking questions, getting a routine of being able to do and behave in certain ways based on different responses. It's not going to be an infinite supply of answers and actions you need to take, but the more you do it, the more it becomes a routine, starts to become a habit, habit and then you start to become. You start that habit becomes part of your identity and then you start to really become somebody who is natural asking questions and and responding, and then the nice thing is that does end up taking less energy over time once it is a habit, but it doesn't escape the.

Charles: 17:41

the initial yes, wave of energy is required to yeah, required to get there, yeah, and the other benefit is you'll attract people that are on a similar path, right, that are also interested, and that will make it easier for you. Yeah, absolutely yeah, okay. So yeah, we do have to keep in mind that. It was really interesting to me because I think one of the things that you'll see in the red pill communities is this idea that when women want, they almost divide it into periods of a woman's life where, at this period, she wants an alpha, this period she wants a beta. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, where it's like when women are younger, they want to have all these more stimulating experiences by being around alpha men and they get to a certain age and now they're ready to start nesting and having kids, and then they want a beta, which I also think is an oversimplification that leads you away from the truth. That is not going. You really, like you said, you got to be both and you got to know when the right time to be each is.

Dan: 18:41

That doesn't make any sense to me, almost, because it's like I'm not saying it's not true, but thinking through, if a woman starts nesting, that means building a family, having kids. Why wouldn't you want an alpha male to protect the family, or you don't say, or to take a, or to take a role where he's he's, he's providing for the family, and that takes some leadership skills and everything else like that right here. So so I'm just saying that you, I think you could look at both periods and go, this doesn't make sense, because I could see a scenario where a beta would be more, you know, in a stimulating experience at a younger age, because you want somebody who will go along, go with the flow a little bit, right. So I don't know, just I'm just thinking I can make an argument for both.

Charles: 19:27

Right? Well, here's where I'll get on my soapbox. They find themselves in a position where they have to choose between a man of poor character who's strong and presents strong traits, or a man who's of good character but weak.

Dan: 19:56

Yeah.

Charles: 19:56

Every woman wants a strong man who's a good man.

Dan: 19:58

Yeah.

Charles: 19:59

And we're producing almost none of them, at least in this country, because they're really hard to raise and it's really hard to's really hard to turn a little boy into a good, strong man. Yeah, what's easier is to turn a boy into a good, weak man or a bad strong man makes sense. It makes sense you're a lazy parrot or you've got your own stuff going on, or there's it's a very specific formula that builds a good, strong man and almost nobody finds it, and we end up with a society full of mostly good, weak men and a smaller amount of bad, strong men and an infinitesimally small number of strong, good men. And so women find themselves in a position where they're like okay, do I want the, do I want the bad boy who is confident, maybe cocky, maybe strong, or do I want the good guy, who is weak and doesn't really have a lot of options, so I don't have to worry about him stepping out?

Dan: 20:55

Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Charles: 20:57

Yeah, so neither of those are an ideal situation for the ladies, and so they have to pick from what's available.

Dan: 21:05

Yeah, hopefully this podcast turns a couple of guys into the direction of becoming a good man. That's what we're trying to do, right For each other, right.

Charles: 21:13

Yeah, absolutely, and yeah, and that would make a better world and a better, better dating pool. Well said, well said. Okay, let's talk about women in fear. And then this is the part where they've talked about a story that you and I have brought up on the podcast multiple times. Yeah, I was thinking about it on the way over as I was listening to this morning, so I don't know if I've ever felt I was in a situation that I was in danger for my life, maybe as a little kid when I thought there was a monster under my bed.

Dan: 21:40

And that says a lot too right, because you can't even think of that's even close. Nothing's coming to the top of my mind. I've been scared a couple of times, but didn't tie it to my life being lost either. Yeah, that's yeah At that level.

Charles: 21:56

Yeah, there's been a couple of times where I'm like this might turn into a fight or something like that, but never this person's going to beat me to death that, but never this person's gonna beat me to death. This person's gonna stab me, this person's gonna shoot me. I've never had to worry about anything like that, and the reason we bring that up is because that's a thought that women have much more frequently. I would say a matriarchal society where maybe the amazon's, like wonder woman, is from. If that was real, yeah, but it's not. I can't think of a scenario where women are the ones that grow up feeling safe all the time and men are the ones that are worried. Yeah, now again, that's not to say men are never worried, it's just when you scale it out across all men and all women. This is a mostly woman problem compared to a man.

Dan: 22:40

Yeah, and he gives some really good examples in terms of I don't know, did he talk about driving a car in this one? Basically about getting cut off and the guy getting like angry and kind of thing. Because I know he talked about like the pistol right.

Charles: 23:00

One of the things that a man that he calls a zero would do is to not is to be willing to escalate a situation in the presence of the woman he's with and not keep in mind.

Dan: 23:11

Oh, this might really be a problem for yeah, that that really hit home with me, because I just remember a lot of times driving in a car with a woman at the time where I something would happen and I would, or something would either happen or I would be speeding really quickly and to get somewhere, and I was just like full of adrenaline and like ready to go. And she was, you know, she was exhibiting signs that she was scared about stuff and I just dismissed it. I was just like, oh and almost oh, this is good, she's getting excited about it, or it's thrilling, whatever. And after listening to this, I was just like, oh and almost oh, this is good, she's getting excited about it, or it's thrilling, whatever. And after listening to this, I was just like, wow, I'm quick now where I'm much quicker after reading this and hearing this, to be a little bit more mindful on the road when I'm driving with a girlfriend and then when something happens, I have to swerve out of the way, spend a little extra time making sure that she's feeling okay and not just get back to the road and the mission at hand.

Dan: 24:07

It's. You know, I'll put my hand on her knee and say, hey, I'm sorry, are you feeling okay? Are you okay or whatever, and just spending a little bit more time and attention, knowing how typically what he talks about is, women get a little bit more scared and that fear builds and lasts a lot longer. When they are initially like frightened, like startled right, whereas a man is, he's, I think, his heart rate goes up faster and for stays longer, but his feelings aren't.

Charles: 24:35

Usually it turns into a little bit of anger, annoyed or angry and yeah, and that that's definitely helped shift my mindset after the first time I heard that yeah, I've, uh, yeah, uh, yeah, I've been told before like the way you're driving right now is scaring me and I've had to oh sorry, I yeah, yeah, it's.

Charles: 24:52

It is interesting to think about that in terms of and what impact fear has on everything else a woman does. It's, yeah, yeah. If they talk about a story where our study rather the way women react to being startled or frightened if they're holding hands with their husband in a happy marriage versus in a not so happy marriage, versus holding hands with a stranger versus not holding someone's hand, and I think, if I recall correctly, holding hands with a husband in a happy relationship was the one that had a positive impact and everything else was pretty much a wash. Yep, that's what I remember. Yeah, if you, if you're in an unhappy marriage, or if you're holding hands with a stranger, if you're not holding hands with anybody, then they and it's nice I think it was a functional mri that they make that determination correct and what.

Dan: 25:40

What was interesting was they? I think they didn't even say, they didn't even allow the woman to see who she was like holding hands with or something like that, like they just hold them who she was holding hands with, whether it was a stranger or not, but regardless, it shows also the power of just doing something really simple when your partner is scared, just holding her hand, just reaching out and holding her hand, assuming you're in a good relationship.

Charles: 26:05

Okay, I found that section. So, yeah, if she was happily married, her fear response was completely shut down in her amygdala. If she held the hand of her husband but she didn't consider herself happily married, the fear response was shut down a bit, but not all the way. And when she held hands with a stranger there was no change, just like like when she held no one's hand. Gotcha, okay, your unhappy marriage does something for the fear response, but not compared to having a happy partner's hand in your hand, which, yeah, and then again, that's going to impact everything about how she parents. It's going to impact your sex life. It's going to impact everything, what her work life is like.

Dan: 26:44

Yeah, think about that when you're feeling fear. Is she really going to be open to having sex with you, right, or doing things other than taking care of herself? Because our brains will start shutting down and go oh look, we are, our life is being threatened. At that point it's going to conserve energy, it's, and by that it's going to be in a self-protective zone, if real. Once you realize, like, how often a woman feels fear throughout the day, you might be a little bit more patient and make a little bit more of an effort to help, you know, mitigate that fear and and resolve it, as well as patience for what your needs are or what your expectations are out of the relationship, knowing she's battling this right yeah and I, and I would say that he doesn't really get into it too deeply, but it makes intuitive sense to me and I'm open to being proven wrong on this.

Charles: 27:39

But if your relationship with a woman is a place of safety for her, then the fear that she deals with on a daily basis when you're not around is going to be mitigated by that as well. If getting home to you at the end of the day and sharing a meal and sharing some quality time with you is something she can count on, and sharing a meal and sharing some quality time with you is something she can count on, then dealing with that walk from the parking garage to her office is going to be a lot easier than being stressed on the drive home because she doesn't know what you're going to fly off the handle about when you get home from work.

Dan: 28:10

Right. And so when you just talk about safety, yeah, you just gave an example of the multidimensional interpretations of safety, right, so we were just talking about physical safety, but, yeah, you just brought up great points is safety in the relationship meaning? Can she trust you right? Are you going to do what you said you're going to do when you said you're going to do it right? So that safety needs to be provided on multiple levels, not just physical, but emotional, mental, how you behave all of those things are signals to her, whether she feels safe or not. And again, guys, as we have said many times before, the safer you can make her feel, the better I feel she's, at, the better position she's going to be in to respond to you and bring her best self and do the things that you want out of the relationship.

Charles: 28:58

Yeah, I was chatting with a friend the other day. I sent her some meme that was basically a picture of a bunch of guys standing around with backward baseball caps and tight shirts on and it was some joke about, I think, their politics or something, and I sent it to her and I was like, hey, there's your kind of guys right there. She's like yeah, why am I attracted to those kind of guys? I was like because of their shoulder to waist ratio. She's like oh yeah, you're right, because I believe the different types of safety are transitive, where if you can feel physically safe, then you're more likely to feel emotionally safe.

Charles: 29:34

If you can feel emotionally safe, you're more likely to feel physically safe. That makes sense. Yeah, likely to feel physically safe. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I think.

Dan: 29:40

And but as we talk about, shoulder to waist ratio is the number one, very easily detectable, visible indicator of a man's strength yeah, see where I think that might might be one of the reasons why a lot of girls get stuck on bad boys who treat them like crap because they may have that shoulder to waist ratio so they provide that physical that they and the initial impression of emotional and as long as they'll look like that, they will be a potential source of physical safety, whether they're living the way that makes them a source of physical safety or not.

Charles: 30:08

There's that potential there where, OK, if things got really bad, I don't have to worry about this guy running away scared or not being able to handle himself.

Dan: 30:15

But then the but, and so, like you said said, the initial assumption or inclination is to associate the other types of safety with that. And then when she finds out he's a bad boy for a reason right, he's not doing the things that right now that emotional safety is going away, and then so that goes away for a little period of time, and then she sees the, the shoulder to waist ratio again, right. And so then I can see how that kind of keeps bringing you back in and keeping you, oh, hopeful, like that. This is going to work out differently next time, yeah, and back to what we, so that explains a lot actually.

Charles: 30:53

Yeah, there could be two weeks out of the month where, oh, good point, overlook a lot of his, that's an excellent, final flaws, right. And then two weeks out of the month where it's like all I care about is the fact that he's, you know, unreliable and untrustworthy, and yeah and uh again. If you, I guess it could. It's funny. It could almost come down to at what point in your cycle do you meet her or take her on your first date?

Charles: 31:20

Oh, wow, well, that's one of the things he mentions in here is the effect of birth control on this whole thing. When women are on birth control, they don't ovulate, and I've heard stories not in my immediate circle of friends, but issues of women who met their partner and dated their partner and married their partner while they were on birth control and then they got off birth control and all of a sudden it felt like things really changed. Interesting, because their but that menstrual cycle kicked back in a way. This had been paused for a long time and that is okay and that challenges the dynamics of the relationship and what attracted to is not.

Charles: 31:58

It's not as constant as it was when I was on ortho tricycline or whatever they call them. Yep, yep, that is one of them. I don't know the name of birth.

Dan: 32:05

No, that is one of them. I remember yeah.

Charles: 32:08

I was a. I was the cashier.

Dan: 32:10

Oh my gosh, yeah yeah, and then most people aren't. This is a popular book. This is not common knowledge. A lot of this stuff that he's talking about In the intro they're like.

Charles: 32:24

So one of the things he had to swim upstream against was the idea that men don't buy relationship books and generally, compared to women, we don't buy relationship books.

Dan: 32:34

That's fairly true we don't buy relationship books. That's fairly true, dude. Let me tell you, you got to figure out, you got to once you realize, like, how much this can benefit you as a guy we did, and the personal development books, and so now we're we're like addicted to this stuff, because the the benefits in terms of your ability and ease of becoming happier is so much more amplified by reading these books, because you understand things that just aren't commonly taught, either by our educational system or our parents or our community.

Charles: 33:08

So let's summarize what we learned in this chapter.

Charles: 33:10

The first is the idea of rhythmicity, which is that hormones will have a day-to-day effect on a woman's emotions and her state. And if you get to know a woman the woman in your life well enough, you'll be able to understand and predict a little bit better. You know what it is that she's going to be experiencing on a day-to-day basis and that'll inform you for how to be a better partner and also know that her sex drive and her need for alone time or her need for cuddling and things like that could be impacted. And it's again I I joke about having a period tracker on your phone. But if you already have a journaling practice and you're noticing these things from your partner, it's certainly a good use of a line or two of your journal to say, hey, I noticed that she was clingy or a little bit standoffish, like she needed space to herself, and there's nothing. The only bad thing that can come from noticing that pattern is what you do with it. If you use it irresponsibly or act out or lash out about it, then that's bad.

Dan: 34:13

But having the knowledge is a good thing, especially and I would say generally if you're willing to notice and compile that knowledge, you're probably the guy who's going to use it the right way, because that takes time and effort, so your why has to be pretty strong and, assuming you're not some sort of evil villain, I feel like that's almost the only person who would like a character I think most people. And we don't allow evil villains to listen to this podcast, no, they're strictly prohibited.

Charles: 34:36

Also, keep in mind, when it comes to fear, women are more easily fear conditioned than men A situation that produces fear in them. They're going to be on the lookout for situations that look similar to that and they'll be more likely to feel that fear than a man might be in a similar situation. Yep, where I think we can, because we have the luxury in a lot of situations of not feeling as in danger, we can get excited about chaos in ways that women can't. They would only feel fear Like. I'll think of this in particular If I'm out somewhere and I see the two guys that I don't know, I'm not friends with. They get in a fight. That's mostly exciting to me. It's not like oh, no, it's more like, oh, this feels like I just saw a celebrity. This is exciting. I don't think that. I think I was with one of my exes in a situation like that where a fight broke out. I was like, oh, I wonder what's going to happen next. A situation like that where a fight broke out.

Dan: 35:37

I was like, oh, I wonder what's gonna happen next and she was like we need to leave right now. Yeah, look at it if you've, if you're our age. Remember mosh pits. Most of them were all guys everywhere. Every once in a while you might see a girl on the outskirts or whatever who were in there, you know, but for the most part that's got and and girls and people that I've I've been with have wanted to stay very far away from that.

Dan: 35:59

Something else to think about here is, I think, because women have been dealing with this fear response for so many such a long part of their lives that they probably have a good way of hiding that fear.

Dan: 36:12

They probably are. Some of them might be really well versed at not letting the external world know that they're scared, because that also could introduce some additional risk. Probably are. Some of them might be really well versed at not letting the external world know that they're scared, because that also could introduce some additional risk if they were to do that. Yeah, that. Combine that with the stereotypical guy's lack of ability of being able to read the room and our intuition about what's going on and a lot of times we're focused on ourselves we might make the false assumption that a woman isn't scared when she actually is. That's true and keep in mind, I think, if you need to go one way or the other. I think the assumption is assume that in any situation where there's a little bit of safety or risk involved, that if you're with a girl, she's going to feel more scared than you are, and just keep that in mind and that might make you choose some different actions.

Charles: 37:02

Yeah, yeah, I think that's good advice. Let's go on the list of things not to do. Don't ask her if she's having her period or PMSing. When you're detecting emotions or states that are hard for you to deal with, like she's angry, she's emotional, she's moody, don't uh, just because you're uncomfortable, don't make it worse by trying to blame her menstrual cycle I know we say you should be curious and ask questions, but this is not really the time to or they're not really the kind of questions you want to ask no, not this right on your period or your pms.

Charles: 37:33

Just what's wrong. How are you feeling? Yeah, you want to talk about? Oh? Yeah, is there anything you do to support you? Yeah, try to not do let. How can I help exactly? Let diagnosis start with her feedback, not your assumption.

Dan: 37:46

Yeah, what's going on and then if she says you can't or whatever, again don't believe it. Also don't assume that it's something that you did either, and then let that escalate your emotions and get angry about her. Yeah.

Charles: 37:58

Provide that space. Don't dismiss her fears as irrational. Don't fail to I guess the don't would be don't fail to offer her comfort when she's afraid or fearful. Don't grope her or engage in unwanted sexual activity. I think that's good advice. Could really go in any chapter. Oh, one thing don't, uh, walk in front of her. Um, when you're walking together on a street where, yeah, it's better to either walk behind her or beside her. And, yeah, I never thought of cause. I dated a gal who always wanted to walk in front of me and I didn't like it, but I never thought of it as potentially a fear response where she felt better.

Dan: 38:44

Yeah, there you go. So somebody's going to sneak up on her or whatever, yeah.

Charles: 38:47

That makes more sense now that I read this. Yeah, I never thought about that. Yeah, don't. Yeah, it's a. I see videos online sometimes of couples that prank each other with startle pranks and gags and that does not appeal to me in the slightest. Yeah, no, jumping out and scaring somebody is not my life.

Dan: 39:20

I did it to my sister as a kid.

Charles: 39:22

Yeah.

Dan: 39:22

Yeah, really it never ended up in laughs.

Charles: 39:25

Yeah, let's just put it that way and look, some people are into that in safe places, like that's what Halloween Horror Nights is. But you're expecting it Exactly. You know what's going on. I know those chainsaws don't have any chains on it. I just I don't want somebody jumping out from where I don't see them, even though I know it's just a paid actor with makeup on. I don't want to experience that.

Dan: 39:47

What's interesting here is the walking behind her. Yeah, it's. I'm tying this to maybe a reason why a common courtesy thing that I learned when I was actually in college. They took us, our fraternity, sent us to a leadership academy and one of the things they taught you was like manners when it comes to walking on the outside, but also walking into a restaurant. So what they say is typically you let the woman go first into the restaurant, pick her seat, pick her seat. Mention that.

Dan: 40:29

But I'm also wondering if it's since it's a new environment you're then walking behind her, pick her seat. She's now familiar with the environment. She doesn't need that protection, so to speak, or to make her feel safe, because she already feels safe there. She's been sitting in there, right? You know what I'm saying. So, yes, I always thought it was just so she could pick the seat, but it might have something a little bit too of protecting her and making her feel safe in that new place, whatever that is, and maybe picking the seat is also a thing where she gets to feel safe, right. So a lot of times they recommend a woman should pick the seat that faces out toward the restaurant, which means you don't want that seat.

Dan: 41:04

And not towards the back of so, where you don't know what's coming up behind you. Right.

Charles: 41:09

Yeah, I think when we were talking about those permeable boundaries, one of mine and we're talking about the lady who wrote that book her preference was to sit in a certain chair in her office, wherever she let her clients sit wherever they wanted to. Yeah, my preference is to sit with my back to the wall facing the door, but it's not a huge preference, it's not something yeah that I ever insist on. Yeah, I've done a quite a few times where we will sit both.

Dan: 41:35

If there's like a booth or something like that, we'll sit. Both of us will sit side by side, facing to the restaurant, because it is regardless. It is a little bit weird and uncomfortable to have your face against the wall, basically yeah, but it also.

Charles: 41:48

But I'll do that for her. The alternate could be it sends a message of yeah, I'm not scared of my backspace in the wall, something yeah, or my face in the door. If my back staysspace in the door and something happens, I'm fast.

Dan: 41:57

Again, yeah, considering how often we don't have to deal with being scared, we yeah with threats, we can, yeah, we can put up.

Charles: 42:03

Yeah, yeah, all right, our next chapter. We're going to get into part two of the book that will be dating a woman, and chapter three is titled read my hips, and there's some pretty good stuff on the body language in this chapter, so I'm looking forward to getting into that. All right, dan, thanks very much. We'll talk to you next time. Bye-bye. Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode, dan, and I know and appreciate that you have ample choices when it comes to men with microphones who think they're wise, and we're glad that you've chosen to listen to us. Please check out our website mindfullymasculinecom for all of our audio and video episodes.