Read My Hips: Understanding Women and Attraction

In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan explore how men can improve their understanding of women and attraction. This engaging conversation covers nonverbal communication, authentic confidence-building, and the social dynamics of relationships. Designed for men aiming to enhance their personal and social lives, this episode delivers practical insights, tips, and strategies for building better connections.

What You'll Learn

• Attraction 101:The traits women find most appealing—confidence, intelligence, and social status—and why authenticity matters more than pretending.
• Mastering Nonverbal Cues:Learn how to interpret body language, such as glances, smiles, and open posture, while avoiding common mistakes like closed-off body language or fidgeting.
• How to Build Confidence:Strategies for cultivating real confidence through personal achievements and past successes, rather than faking traits.
• Signs of Interest (and Disinterest):Spotting key signals that indicate a woman’s interest or lack thereof in a conversation.
• Overcoming the Friend Zone:Addressing common misconceptions about romantic outcomes and learning how to align intentions with actions.
• Practical Grooming and Appearance Tips:Why personal hygiene, well-fitted clothing, and appropriate grooming elevate your social appeal.

Key Topics Covered

• Authenticity vs. Faking It
• Decoding Nonverbal Communication
• Social Status and Skills
• Navigating Social Spaces
• Courage and Vulnerability

Top Takeaways

• Cultivate confidence and competence through real achievements
• Pay attention to nonverbal cues to gauge interest and engagement
• Grooming, hygiene, and appropriate attire signal effort and reliability
• Build social skills by engaging in group activities and leadership roles
• Avoid arrogance—it signals insecurity rather than confidence

Resources and References

• Books Discussed:
  • Man’s Guide to Women by John Gottman
  • How to Be a 3% Man by Corey Wayne
  • Dating Essentials for Men by Robert Glover
• Core Concepts:
  • Nonverbal communication and its role in social dynamics.
  • Developing confidence through skill-building.
  • Recognizing social signals for better interactions.

SEO Keywords
Understanding women, attraction tips for men, body language in dating, building confidence, nonverbal cues, dating advice for men, social skills improvement, overcoming the friend zone, relationship tips for men, cultivating authenticity, men’s grooming and appearance tips.

Connect with Us
Subscribe to Mindfully Masculine on your favorite podcast platform for more episodes exploring self-improvement, relationships, and personal growth for modern men.

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Women and Attraction
• 10:34 Building Confidence Through Trying and Failing
• 22:08 Improving Nonverbal Communication and Social Status
• 29:45 Developing Desirable Skills for Social Status
• 36:28 Reading Social Cues and Interest
• 45:49 Reading Social Cues in Interactions
• 59:26 Balancing Personal Sharing and Confidence

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. All right. This episode, dan and I will continue our discussion of the Man's Guide to Women by Dr John Gottman. We'll be covering Chapter 3, read my Hips Understanding Women and Attraction, and the topics that we will discuss include approaches to attraction, nonverbal communication, building high social status, the dynamics of interpersonal interactions, avoiding unhealthy behaviors, recognizing signs of interest from women, personal development, the role of your environment, social skills and mentorship, and some cultural observations. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom, where you can find audio and video episodes, as well as anything else that we find worth sharing. Thanks and enjoy this episode.

Charles: 0:51

Good morning, charles. Hello there, dan, how are you? I am well. It's been a busy couple weeks. Indeed, we have many updates to share, which we will not be doing with this episode, but we will be doing it eventually. Yeah, look forward to that. For this episode, we're going to jump into our material and I think it's been a little bit since we recorded. So I think I'm on the right page. Chapter three understanding women in attraction. Okay, good, I'm glad I prepared for the right ones. I find that in this particular chapter, really all the stuff that you need to know is distilled into the summary at the end. So I'm just going to use that to where I mean. He does that a lot with many of the chapters, but I mean they're worth reading. But as far as what we're trying to share, we're just going to go off of what he covers in the uh cheat sheet for heroes at the end of every chapters, and again this one I love when authors do that.

Dan: 1:50

They summarize. I'm reading another book that they. They do that. Here are the key points right at the at the end. Now again, you're not going to get that full value and I don't think you can retain it. Just looking at that little box, yeah, um, and you're missing out on a lot of, I think, entertainment and really getting it to implant in your brain when you're just going to the back of the chapter. But it is tempting to do that cheat sheet and skip ahead. If you're cramming for a podcast, it works beautifully.

Charles: 2:20

It makes it really easy for us. It makes it really easy for us because with most books you and I have to manually go through and make those notes because we don't want to. Just we don't want to be in a position where we're just reading the book to our listeners and we also don't want to just be like shoot from the hip where, oh, I think this is what I remember from this chapter. So we have to make notes, or in this case, gottman did it for us.

Dan: 2:43

Look, these are books that we're finding valuable for ourselves anyway, right yeah, so it's not like we're cheating ourselves. I don't want to even do it. You know what I'm saying. I want to be able to remember at least a sliver of information from each chapter.

Charles: 2:57

Yeah, I'm on. This is my second. I guess it's my second listen, my first re-listen, and I'm going through this whole book again and picking up a lot of stuff that I remember. Now this chapter on what was it called? Again, the oh, understanding women and attraction. Yeah, Looking for social cues and stuff is not really a big focus of how you and I are currently spending our time, because we're both in relationships with girlfriends.

Dan: 3:28

But before that we absolutely were yes, absolutely. And there's still situations where you can pick that up when you're out and about by yourself.

Charles: 3:39

Have your partner by your hand Early, notice it Right. Yes, and even being better at non-verbal communication will help you in your relationship too and being able to notice these signs.

Dan: 3:50

It is a little bit of an ego boost when it does happen from time to time. It's right again not being blatantly hit on. But just seeing signs that people are happy to see you is a way you could sum it up or whatever and that you're bringing some sort of positive vibes to to the situation is always. It always makes you feel a little bit better about yourself, especially when you're human and you're struggling, having to have a little bit of a bad day.

Charles: 4:21

Yeah, I agree and agree, and so let's jump into it. So women are attracted to some other. I did make some additional notes confidence, intelligence and high social status and so the key for men who want to be found attractive by women is to know okay, how do I communicate my confidence, my intelligence and my high social status? And that's. We immediately come to divergence of two paths in the woods here, which is okay. So do I go the pickup route, where I learn how to fake those signals, or do I go the attraction route, where I learn how to cultivate those traits in myself and then make sure that they're being communicated through my nonverbal communication, and you and I are both on the same page where it's. Don't try to figure out a way to trick someone into thinking that you're confident and that you've got intelligence and high status. Actually cultivate those traits in yourself and then learn how you can communicate the fact that you legitimately have those traits to everybody, not just women you're attracted to.

Dan: 5:29

Yeah, for sure. That's the thing is, where are you going to put in the work? Right? You're going to put in the work to fake it, which is going to take a lot of work, and then it's you're less likely to get the end desired result that you're looking for, because it's difficult to keep up that story, those that that fake life, whatever that is. Or you put in the work, which is also going to take some time and energy, right to actually become those things.

Charles: 6:00

And it'll take more work to actually become those things than it does to fake it Absolutely, but the payoff is much. The payoff is much better and I love the way that coach Corey Wayne always frames it as far as he's got a book how to be a 3% man and he also releases a ton of videos on YouTube and he's always constantly calling out people who just cherry pick the videos that they want to watch and won't read his book multiple times. That's right and the way he says it is by watching my videos you will achieve success. That is attainable, but not sustainable.

Dan: 6:36

Ooh.

Charles: 6:37

I like the rhyme, and it's the same thing with trying to. Okay, what skills can I develop so that I can fake confidence, intelligence and social status? Okay, you'll get more success than you have today, but it won't be sustainable, especially when you get into the relationship with the kind of girl you've wanted and if all you've done is put effort into okay, how can I come up with a faux version of all of these positive traits? Eventually, and usually sooner than later, she'll figure out that you don't really have. You're not really what you are pretending to be. And then, as we said in the previous chapters, the most attractive trait in a man is trustworthiness. So, if you put all your effort into learning and developing, how can I fake these skills and the shortcuts here? Yes, we're talking exactly. Then it's going to. It's going to become apparent fairly early on that you're not trustworthy, that you're pretending to be something you're not and here's where it gets a little bit.

Dan: 7:39

I feel people need to think about this and I didn't, as I was learning these things. I went through a phase in college where I was learning all the little tricks and stuff like that and didn't realize how much you needed to actually put work into in order to become that kind of person. I thought you could do enough of those tricks and then and the those techniques and you'd actually become that that kind of person and didn't realize what actually. But when you do that and she finds out and she will, and then things go south for you, yeah, I think you also have to realize that's your fault and you are setting yourself up for some pain by taking the shortcuts at the beginning and the same kind of pain over and over, over again and not realizing that, that you are the source of that, and then blaming everything else your surroundings, the external for what's happening to you.

Charles: 8:32

There's big business and just blaming women for that. You know you turn yourself into a pickup artist. You don't have any happy, sustainable, healthy relationships and then the problem it's the problems. Modern women dan these modern women. They don't appreciate a good man.

Dan: 8:45

You haven't turned yourself into a good man, yeah and, unfortunately, that the amount of investment of time and energy is consistent with that type of men.

Dan: 8:54

Mental state right or that that excuse right it's a lot easier to just blame something else than to look at yourself and go, oh, all right, and feel I need to change something about myself. Oh my gosh, I don't even know what I need to change. I don't even know how to change. I don't know what I even don't know. Oh, that's a lot more work than just going. If I had more of this or if she wasn't like that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Charles: 9:18

Yeah, I saw some dialogue the Threads app in the last week where it was women basically saying hey, men, we want you to approach us, we want you to introduce yourself, we want to get to know you and guys don't do that anymore. And then immediately some guys were jumping into reply to say you don't want nice guys to approach you, you only want guys who are confident and arrogant and good looking and they're probably probably only attract, they're probably only approaching you because they're already cheating on somebody else. If you're a guy who attracts a woman, you must be a bad guy, because I don't do that and I know I'm a good guy. So therefore the problem is only bad guys are the kind that would be confident enough to approach a woman. And he also went on to jag this guy about how women communicate non-verbally and men just don't understand that.

Charles: 10:08

And I respond to say, okay, what books have you read? What coaches videos have you watched that will teach you how to learn those non-verbal communication skills? And whenever I ask that question, whenever it's you know, okay, what have you done to get better at this? It's crickets. Nobody ever responds. It reminds me we I had an opportunity this week to share with you that homer simpson quote of we try, we've tried nothing and it hasn't worked. And that's what so many of these guys who are complaining about the men, women, dynamics and relationship lack of success that they're having it's okay, where have you gone for information to learn how to get better at this? And they just don't respond. Yeah, it's either you can't get, but you can't learn this, you just have to be born with it, or it's I. They just don't respond to me because they haven't done anything or the related expression to that is oh, I've tried everything.

Dan: 11:01

If you've tried everything, you would have been successful at something, right? You haven't tried everything. You really haven't tried everything. It's just like you tried nothing.

Charles: 11:09

You're exhausted and this is just you're checking out line, right, yeah, and that's the thing you got to be comfortable with trying and failing at things and then figuring out what's not working.

Dan: 11:21

The ironic thing is from all research and the studying that we've done, is it's literally the trying part that is attractive right to women. It's not even whether you're successful or not, it's honestly. Yeah, that helps, sure, but if you have the balls and the courage to try which is what it takes, takes to do things that are uncomfortable and that you haven't done before, that shows potential right, and we've seen and read many, many times is, and I'll be honest with you, I look at it as a human being, regardless of whether I'm trying to mate with them or not. Somebody who is trying lots of different things and doesn't give up whether they succeed or fail, that is a person I immediately respect.

Charles: 12:06

Yeah, and we've you and I have both been in business for ourselves for going on multiple decades and it's one of the things I notice all the time. There's plenty of people out there that are good at something, they're competent, but like just pulling the trigger and saying I'm going to quit my job and start my own business is the thing that most people don't do. And when you do have that that competence in an area, it's like the competence without the confidence or the confidence without the competence. Either way you're not going to succeed. And we see that you got to have both to pretty much succeed at anything that involves you interacting with another person, whether that's a business or dating relationship or anything. You got to have the competence and the confidence to step out and try it, and then often that's all it takes to succeed.

Dan: 12:56

What I like to do is go upstream. One C word courage, right. So before you even have. So my philosophy really is you need to have. You're going to start with the courage first, to then build the competence yeah to then be competent, and once you have that competency then you can.

Dan: 13:15

Then you're confident. So in order to get that courage, you need to, like look at the things that you've already done right in your past, build yourself up to do that new thing. And even if it's not related at all, it's just like what have you been good at? What have you succeeded at what? Where did you start from a real beginner's mindset and remember struggling and actually figured it out? And as you remember those memories, you build up a little bit of that courage to step out into your comfort zone and try it. And as you start to do things, that's where you build that in your bones, when you're actually able to take the physical action and do it. That builds that competency. And from there, now, oh now we're generating some confidence and then keep going from there.

Dan: 13:59

It's just our memories are so crappy in general and I'm guilty of this too. You really need to be intentional and sit back and and and go through all the things that you know you were, your memories, what you were good at. You asked friends and family to help. Hey, you know, cause they're going to remember stuff that you forgot about and the impression that you left on them. You're like, oh wow, I didn left on that. And you're like, oh wow, I didn't realize like you really respected me or you were really excited when I did this or did that or whatever, and so that's that it's important to then have a way to to remember the things that you've been doing. Yeah, journaling is one way. So if you're keeping a journal, like we do, you just review some of the you had to go through it and you'll surprise yourself yeah, yeah, it really does, trying anything new and getting good at it, really at the base level.

Charles: 14:49

It requires a belief of I'm going to try this and if it works it's going to be awesome and even if I fail at it I'll be okay anyway. And if you didn't come out of childhood, high school, college, whatever with that idea of I can try new things and even when I fail miserably I'll still be okay, Then you'll just never want to try anything new. Sure, and a lot of people, a lot of young men especially, are just not coming out with those skills of I'm resilient. I know I'm resilient enough to try and fail at something and then I can dust myself off and try again tomorrow.

Dan: 15:23

I think a big part of that, too, is saying I'll be okay without that thing. Yeah, because I think what happens is we spend so much time in our minds fantasizing of whatever that is whether it's a job, the relationship with that girl that we literally have no information about other than we think she's attractive. You know, as we talk about guys, will you know, spin up these fantasies in their brains about, like, marrying them and having kids with them and having a future with them, without even having one word spoken between the two of them. And so then I feel like a lot of times and I've been guilty of this too where you basically then are almost living a life in this fantasy world in your brain, and so that becomes what you are, set your expectations. Yeah, so I could see how easy it is to feel like I'm not okay without these things.

Charles: 16:11

Right, and then, which you never really even had to begin with, but you read it and then you get paralyzed with the fear of losing that fantasy that you've created. Yeah, so you never tell the girl that you like her, that you'd like to go out with her, because if you do and she says no, then that fantasy goes completely away. But it doesn't exist right now. That's, that's the thing you're getting yourself and that's again. We talk about the friend zone frequently on this show. Guys find themselves there based on their own making and, frankly, their own cowardness, their own cowardice and their own deception. You don't get yourself in the friend zone without being a little bit of a coward and a little bit of a liar. Yeah, that's the only way that it happened, yeah, yeah, and I'm sorry that sounds judgmental, but I spent a lot of time in that zone and it's true. That's how it happens. You got the a little bit of a coward and a little bit of a liar to get like in the friend zone, absolutely, absolutely.

Dan: 17:08

And if you think about it, it makes sense, because a woman's not going to make herself vulnerable and expose herself to somebody that she doesn't trust. Physical signs that you are attracted to her, but then you wouldn't open up to it or you deny it, or you are whatever, because you don't have the courage to be vulnerable too. Why would she possibly? But be being vulnerable by telling her the truth? Why would she be vulnerable enough to say hey, I'm noticing you're acting this way, and even though you're saying you're not, which is, I think, the secret fantasy of all these guys right now.

Charles: 17:50

One day, she's gonna wake up and realize she loves you and she's gonna be the one to unburden her feelings on you, and all you have to say is yes, you know what, and I'm gonna blame.

Dan: 17:58

I'm not gonna blame, but I think there were like a lot of movies growing up where that kind of happened.

Charles: 18:06

Yeah, the meek nice guy puts his time in and eventually she realizes she's in love with him and that's yeah. I don't think that's reality. I've never heard of it actually happening that way.

Dan: 18:16

And this kind of not to go too far down a rabbit hole. But this also reminds me of a lot of people who talk about meditating and also not being attached to outcome. Yes, absolutely, and so I think this can also apply here is, yes, you would love a wonderful partner or whatever, but don't be it. And you see some great examples of women who you'd love to have a baby with and marry and a family with, or whatever you want to meet with, but don't be attached to that one person, right? Say, yeah, I do want to have a partner, but I feel, if you can say, yes, I do want to date somebody, but you're not attached to that specific outcome, it gets a lot easier to accept that an outcome that doesn't work exactly the way your brain was fantasizing about it with that one specific person and I mean you're not attached to that.

Charles: 19:08

Okay, you work with her, clarify, go ahead and get attached to people once you're in a relationship, correct, correct, before you've even taken any risk whatsoever to to announce your intentions or your interests. Right, yeah, don't get attached to. But what if she says, no, my life will be over. Yes, because I think that's a problem. A lot of guys will develop a connection in their own head with a woman and then decide she's my only chance for love, sex, family, kids, whatever. And then again, just that, that attachment to that outcome with that specific girl is what gives you that paralyzing fear to actually act on it. And because what if I say I like her and she doesn't like me?

Dan: 19:52

yeah, and and you know what, don't beat yourself up, because we're operating like you think you're something, there's something wrong with you. For if you're feeling that way, because I think we're pre-wired to do that, because we have thousands of years where there weren't a lot of people in our little tribe, there weren't a lot of options these days, we have to use the other part of our brain to realize look, there's millions of people out there. We have the capabilities now with travel and the internet and everything else, to meet so many more people. So take that pressure off yourself. Now, with travel and the internet and everything else, yeah, to meet so many more people. So take that pressure off yourself. These aren't. This isn't like your only shot at the pro. Right, there's four billion women out there, but I think we're pre-wired that way. Yeah, I think that way.

Charles: 20:34

So, yeah, because you feel bad that we're coming from that default right, if you're, if you're in the tribe and you make a move on the most beautiful, most high status woman and she shoots you down, then for some period of time you're the guy that tried and failed and that reputation would marry that. But yeah, we don't live in that situation anymore. But our biology doesn't know that. Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, yeah, okay. So let's talk about some of these non-verbals that you can implement to communicate your confidence, intelligence and high social status. And he does make a point to remember that, for the most part, whether you approach a woman or not is up to her, and at least it is if you know how to recognize their cues and their signs. It'll be very clear to you whether a woman's interested in talking to you or having a conversation or being asked out on a date if you know how to recognize her cues, and so you can train yourself to not be banging on locked doors and instead just walking through doors that are already open. And that's the language that Robert Glover uses in Dating Essentials for Men, which, between that book and this book and how to Be a 3% man by Corey Wayne, I think those are the Mount Rushmore. I guess Mount Rushmore has to have one more, I'll have to think about what the fourth one would be, but the top three for me are how to Be a 3% man Man's Guide to Women by Gottman and Dating Essentials for Men by Robert Glover.

Charles: 22:08

Okay, here's what you can do to indicate your social status Space maximization meaning and I am absolutely a bullhorn when it comes to my nonverbal communication. When I'm someplace I don't want to be, anybody can look at me and tell that I don't want to be there. I absolutely I will sit back with my arms folded, I will close off completely. When I'm in a place I don't want to be which for me is often most bars, clubs type environments I don't want to be there and you can tell by the look on my face and what I'm doing with my body language that I just don't want to be there.

Charles: 22:48

And when you do that, you're not going, women aren't going to be interested in interacting with you when you're communicating, I feel weird, I feel awkward, I wish I was someplace else. So some of the things to avoid when it comes to that folding your arms, crossing one arm across your torso, holding a beverage, like right here, where your one arm is going across your body, crossing your legs, fidgeting, are really any displays of anxiety? Whatsoever, whatsoever. Again, it comes down to do I learn techniques where I can better hide my anxiety, or do I just avoid places that I don't want to be in that make me anxious? That's as an older fellow.

Dan: 23:35

That's definitely my move, I just don't go places where I know I'm going to feel anxious or uncomfortable, right, yeah, I think you need to start there, yeah, and get feel comfortable at the places where you're most likely to be comfortable and from there again building that courage, that competency, right?

Dan: 23:49

So then, if you wanted to, if you've got a social circle and they like to go to places that make you feel uncomfortable, you can draw from that level of confidence you've built in those other areas. And if you need to play some mental games with yourself in terms of, hey, this is similar to being at the library. I see I'm in a bar and it's got books on the shelves or whatever, whatever that is, because, especially if your outcome or your intent is more than just spending time with your friends, you actually do want to meet somebody. You got to remember. The energy you're giving off is obvious. It's not even though it's not something that we can see out in the ether there, but by having your arms crossed versus having your body open, you are actually conveying information to people.

Charles: 24:36

Yeah, Invisibly right, and that is I think most of the good books that I mentioned will also tell you. Bars and clubs are a pretty lousy place to try to meet women, because for the most part, they're going there to hang out with their friends and have fun, and then they're open to the idea of being approached by a guy they consider to be extremely attractive, and I don't mean just physical attributes, but some guy who is doing these things. Another one that this is the first book that told me about intra. Was it intra gender touching? I I had never. I had never known that how touching you are with your friends, your buddies, is a way that communicates your high social dominance as well.

Dan: 25:20

Male-to-male touching it's called like a big pat on the back, a slap on the back, which we know a couple of people who do that and it's over the top.

Charles: 25:28

Yeah, that's the thing it gets cartoony. I have very little. Yeah, I don't mind a guy. We make a big deal of slapping hands and shaking hands when we go out with the guys, but the really cartoony big pads on the back very hard, very loud. I have no interest in that. Yeah, but, yeah. But being able to a little playful hard punch on the shoulder and stuff like that at a a little pat on the back, that that just communicates that okay, my, my tribe is okay with me interacting with them in this way, and so I must. I'm not actively being shunned by the guys that I'm hanging out with that's good.

Charles: 26:14

You're valued in that social circle, so that means you're welcomed in into that circle right, because I'm sure we've all hung out sometimes with a guy in our social circle that was like the black sheep, that nobody was really excited, oh he's coming, and that if he tried to get touchy with you it'd be like what's going on with them. I've certainly been in those situations where it's like, oh, somebody invited him and now he's going to have a couple extra beers and try to get too touchy with me. Yeah and yeah. And the women in that environment would probably see the other guys responding to him like and that's the other thing, guys is.

Dan: 26:54

You may not see them looking at you, but women have very good peripheral vision. They can almost sense things without seeing things, and that's they've developed that out of safety, to know, to be able to assess situations much better. I don't care what kind of athlete you are. I'd pick your, your skills in terms of your visual acumen and being able to pick up situations and information. I'd pick you against almost any woman and and I I bet on the woman in terms of, yeah, her ability to sense and pick up non-verbal, yeah and physical cues in any higher for them. Absolutely they're gonna, and they practice it since they were little girls yeah, every day short of a maybe some law enforcement or special operators.

Dan: 27:44

Who's also training Exactly, professionally, every day Live.

Charles: 27:48

By picking up those nonverbal cues. Same incentives yeah, almost every woman is having to develop those on her own, naturally. Yeah, in a way that law enforcement and soldiers have to get trained on it.

Dan: 27:59

So even if your guys, even if you're not being stared at directly at a woman, just know they're, you're being noticed, they'll notice every, almost everything.

Charles: 28:07

Yeah, just go with that assumptions and pretty much when you walk into a place, a place that has a that women are in they're going to notice your entrance and make some decisions about you as you walk in about whether you're somebody that is even worth them giving a second glance to or you're somebody that should be ignored. That brings me to a couple points I wanted to share. Number one it will be easier for you to take up space, to touch other guys in your group, to act relaxed, if you actually do feel like you have some high social status, instead of trying again to pretend like you do. And how do you get high social status? And this is something that I think a lot of young men right now are struggling with.

Charles: 28:54

To have high social status, you need to be interested in something and enjoy something enough that you put in the time to get good at it, and it has to be an activity that involves social interaction with both men and women, where if you're really good at playing video games and looking at porn, that's not really going to help you very much with building social status, because those are things you do for the most part on your own, in private, and, yeah, being good at those activities doesn't really buy you much, but the example in this chapter was even a guy who was a dungeon master for his group of friends that played dungeons and dragons where you know. Yeah, we would not normally associate that with high social status, but if you've developed the skills to be good at it because you enjoy it so much, then that can be a way to have high social status in your group.

Dan: 29:45

Now here I'm going to say, these days, with video games, that also could be. It's it, I think it came. It comes down to the skill that you're developing, right. So if you're really good at this video game and you are running in a crowd that values that skill even if it's video games because right, but that can build, that could buy you some status and maybe, but I'm trying to let's.

Charles: 30:07

Let's talk that out unless you are like a high level twitch streamer or you're going to video game tournaments, for the most part it's going to be you telling stories to people about how good you are okay, so in my mind I didn't clarify the right.

Dan: 30:27

You would need to be in front of the people that you're playing games with. Right, there's online game. How often does that happen, though? Yeah, these days, people do have teams and they have regular. They have regular games where they're regularly playing with the same group of people, and stuff like that. In that scenario, I think it works. But if it's just video games with random strangers that you're trying to impress with your skills, that's correct. The people need to care about the skills. He talks about the scene in Napoleon Dynamite. Right, earl wants a guy with skills. Yeah, but the skills need to be relevant and important to both people and demonstrable too.

Charles: 31:04

It can't just be like I was telling stories. You meet a girl at a party. You're like I'm really good at uh, call of duty. Yeah, okay, it's got to be something where, as opposed to like belonging to a run club where it's you're not necessarily the best guy, the fastest guy in the run club, but you're somebody who's showing upward progress and you're developing your fitness and your skills. That's very different than I happen to be really good at finding exactly the video I want to watch on Pornhub. I can find it really quick. I really enjoy it.

Charles: 31:37

Telling that story is not going to get you anything. I wish you'd see me Google oh, my God, I can search for things. Yeah, you need to focus on getting good at activities that matter, are social and that men and women are both, at least at some level, interested in or attracted to right and look, you can get into some pretty dorky, nerdy things like being a dungeon master or going to conventions and dressing up like a jedi. There's a lot of stuff that appeals mostly to men, but there will be some women there that are also interested in it in the chapter he uses the dungeon master example of where he is.

Dan: 32:17

The way he presented it was. You thought that he was giving out orders and the way he was leading and acting like a leader was very masterful. And before I thought, before he mentioned that this was a dungeon master, I literally thought he was like an executive, like a ceo of a company, and then he's just like oh, he happened to be a dungeon master showing all these skills and it was, and now, a great way to present the fact that it doesn't really matter what the activity is if you are showing desirable skills which are thoughtfulness, leadership, some good communication skills. All of these things are attractive qualities yeah.

Charles: 32:59

just keep in mind, though, what, whatever hobby you decide to get into and invest a lot of time and effort in, if the number of women assuming you're a straight guy, you're into women, you want to meet women yeah, go ahead and keep in mind the idea that, okay, if this is something where, for every 10 guys, there's one girl, it's going to be harder to meet a potential partner because every other guy is going to possibly be thinking about the same thing, and yeah. Whereas if it's something like a run club or recurring yoga in the park experience or something like that, where you're more likely to run into more women, then that probably does help your chances of making a connection with somebody that you might be interested in or attracted to.

Dan: 33:45

What's interesting is, as kids, we have done a lot of those things where it might've been just a lot of guys together and not a lot of women, so maybe playing Dungeons and Dragons, whatever. But that's an example of what you can pull from your past. You are a great dungeon master. As you're maybe getting into a run club or getting into a more social type of activity, pull that confidence that you built from being an amazing blank dungeon master, whatever that is and just try to remember those memories as you start to feel uncomfortable doing the new thing that you're trying to get good at. So there is inherent value, even if the the thing that you were doing didn't have the all of the elements that you're looking for now, which in this case is women right, right, you. It's still valuable. It still builds up your confidence. It still shows that you, because you weren't a good dungeon master at the beginning.

Dan: 34:42

Dungeon dragons it's a complicated game. I know a little bit about it, but that does take some. That takes some hard work and some dedication and some memory, and then I'm stumbling right now, right. So all these, all of these things are also required when you're doing anything else new so you were able to do back, then pull from that and draw from that. Feel good about yourself and you're more likely to keep moving when you're doing anything else new. So you were able to do back, then pull from that and draw from that. Feel good about yourself and you're more likely to keep moving when you're not feeling comfortable in this new environment.

Charles: 35:11

Yeah, but keep in mind, doing that's a good idea but it's certainly not necessarily going to make it easy, because we don't know Some of the standup classes that I've taken. You meet a lot of guys going through standup comedy classes who were the funniest guy in their group of friends in high school and then you get them into a room with people who have been practicing doing open mics and showcases and stuff for a few years and you got to be prepared, when you try something new, to look like an idiot at the beginning and, yes, it's good if you've got some experience and some confidence. You can leverage from other things. But also the most socially charismatic dungeon master, when you get into again a run club, for example, don't expect you're just going to walk in there and be the coolest guy. Don't expect you're just going to walk in there, be the coolest guy. And if you set your up for that, yeah, you might disappoint yourself and you might feel a little let down and awkward that's a great point.

Dan: 36:11

Yeah, it's you pull on that memory after you feel that, yeah, you go in feeling, but but it's because those things are going to be difficult and hard and you're not going to be good at that. That's when you're feeling down, that's when you need to pull from that confidence from before.

Charles: 36:28

And the other thing is it's important to have friends or associates, coworkers, whatever in your social circle that you think are better at either meeting girls or social interactions or whatever than you, and you've got to have the humility to say to them hey, I'm looking to expand my social circle a little bit. What are the things I'm not so good at? That might put people off a little bit.

Dan: 36:54

That's a tough question.

Charles: 36:56

It is, it is, but I've asked you that before. Yeah, you plan your phone too goddamn much when you're public. Yeah, yeah, you're right, dan.

Dan: 37:06

Yeah, you got, but it takes because you're basically asking for criticism. Yeah, absolutely yeah, but it's going to benefit.

Charles: 37:14

Yeah, you got to have people in your life that when you open your, when you spread your ribs open like that and ask for that feedback, they're not going to take the opportunity to cut you down.

Dan: 37:26

And if they do find somebody else, because they're not helping you in that way.

Charles: 37:31

But again, the thing is, the people that are least likely to do that are going to be the people that have those skills that you wish you had. If you ask your buddy, who's even worse at social interactions than you are, he might use that as an opportunity to take you down a peg.

Dan: 37:45

That's a good point yeah, you are actually paying your friend a compliment, a pretty compliment. You're saying like hey, you're, I recognize mentor. Yeah, yeah. And when you tell people that, they usually respond positively absolutely. You're making them feel good about them yeah.

Charles: 37:58

so you go to your buddy who has none of the relationships or social skills that you want and you ask him for your feedback, that might his lack of confidence might be present him an opportunity to take you down a leg. But if you go to somebody that has what you want and thinks you're a little, you think they're a little better than you, then that's a good opportunity to get some good feedback. Some good feedback. Okay. So let's get to here's what a woman will do when she is interested in, at the very least, having an additional level of interaction with you. So when a woman does these things, it doesn't mean that she wants to go on a date with you. It doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you. It doesn't mean she wants to marry you. It means that she might be interested in a conversation with you.

Dan: 38:40

That's very important. To set that explanation. That's a realistic thing to think about, right? That's where it should end in your brains, guys, right, in terms of the fantasy is having a great conversation, like, I think. If you set your expectations in that and you pull yourself back from going beyond that of what happens after that expectation, right, stop, stop, right there, stay in reality there. I think it's a lot easier then, because there's a lot less on the line in your mind too. If it doesn't, work out.

Charles: 39:07

She's not even doing them consciously. So you could be an attractive guy that she might feel really good getting a smile from, but that might be all that she's looking for, because she's already in a relationship.

Dan: 39:30

She's happy yet remember, women are just like guys in terms of they like to feel good about themselves exactly and they want, and maybe that smile is what she's looking for from you.

Charles: 39:40

Yeah, and then that's it yeah, or she can even enjoy a pleasant conversation with you yeah, and that's not her flirting or cheating or anything.

Dan: 39:50

There's no obligation on her part?

Charles: 39:53

Absolutely, I would. Yeah, if my girlfriend had a pleasant, friendly conversation with some guy that was attractive, she's not done anything wrong. Yes, there's, that's well before the line that she would cross it.

Dan: 40:09

I would think, okay, this is a problem I can see how that does cause some issues with people, because if you grew up in an environment where maybe you didn't see social interactions, where people were having conversations and it was platonic at that point, right, and it was just them being friendly, so you may not have had parents who were social, had a lot of friends? I certainly did not. I did not either, yes and so then any type of conversation. It was just like what's going on here my mom's talking to some other guy.

Charles: 40:42

Right, yeah, that would feel really weird, because my mom never talked to anybody. Yeah.

Dan: 40:47

So for me growing up, my parents didn't have a lot of friends coming over, but they were also very friendly people and my dad talks to people for a living. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't privy to that. I didn't see those sessions, but when I'd go shopping with my mom and she'd have this conversation with the cashier, I would get embarrassed. I was mom, what are you doing? Like? And it wasn't even a real conversation.

Dan: 41:09

It wasn't like a public conversation where they're like it's just like being friendly, and it was just very strange for me the first few times I saw that and then I realized over time oh, she's just this what people do. This is a friendly kind of thing, but a lot of times we all come from different backgrounds, so we may not we're all going to have these preconceived notions in terms of what a conversation means, and keep that in mind.

Charles: 41:34

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, because, yeah, a lot of you're going to carry baggage into these interactions interactions, whether they're your interactions or interactions you witness your partner having with somebody, your own childhood and the way your parents were and the way your siblings were and the way your friend group. It's going to have some impact on how you might feel threatened in some of these scenarios, but in most cases you don't need to. Okay, signs that she's interested. She repeatedly glances at you and looks away, that can be a sign that she's interested and she's a little bit shy. Yeah, where, this is not something that guys should do. If you glance and look away, that communicates predator behavior. When a girl catches you looking at her and you immediately look down, that means you're communicating. Oh, I just got caught doing something wrong.

Charles: 42:24

Right and I'm not who I say I am either right Like I'm not expressing I don't own the fact that I was looking at you because I was interested. I'm hiding something.

Dan: 42:34

I'm hiding something. I'm hiding my intentions. Guys, guys, don't hide your intention.

Charles: 42:39

So when a girl catches you looking at her and not staring, not gawking, but you glance at a girl and she sees that you glanced at her you need to hold eye contact and give a little smile or a smirk, because that communicates. Yeah, you just. Yeah, I was just looking at you and that's okay, because if you immediately look down, it's yeah, what, oh, this guy knows that he shouldn't be looking Right.

Dan: 43:03

It also makes you look like you don't. You're not confident in who you are Right. If you're not confident and love who you are, why would anybody else? So you are literally with that little like we just had a whole conversation about what that one little thing, that one little glance and that one little behavior communicates. Yeah, there's so much behind that.

Charles: 43:21

And I would say in the vast majority of cases not every case, but in most cases hold on. This does not apply to a woman who's at work. If she is a waitress, bartender, sales clerk, then none of this matters. But if you're in a purely social situation, right, and you glance at a girl, she glances back, you smile, you hold eye contact and smile at her and she smiles back. She wants to talk to you.

Dan: 43:46

But that's it.

Charles: 43:47

That's all. She's open to talking, yeah, she's open to you walking up and saying hello, saying good evening, saying something that is equal proportional to the fact that, oh, she probably wants to have a conversation with me and you should probably go do that If you're interested in meeting someone new and having a conversation with a stranger. If you're not interested in that, then it can just end at oh, you both smile at each other and that's that. And again, as a guy who has a girlfriend, or a guy who would go out with his guy friends and not be looking to have interactions with strangers, you can just let it drop at oh, we just smiled at each other. And if her interest is extremely high, she may be the one that comes and talks to you. That happens too If you are talking to a girl and she leans toward you while talking. That's a sign of at least interest in continuing the conversation. She points in your direction with her leg, foot or shoulders.

Charles: 44:41

I've never noticed that and I've never tried to notice that. I've never in the middle of a conversation. I've never taken stock of whether she was doing that. Maybe, yeah, her whole body is pointing toward me, but right, she pointed her foot at me. I I'm not going to notice that right now she plays with or tosses her hair. I have noticed that, and that is definitely an indicator of some level of interest, of at least either having an interaction or continuing the interaction that she's currently enjoying. She fidgets with a piece of jewelry, like an earring, or strokes the stem of her glass. I've noticed fidgeting with jewelry, but like stroking the stem of the glass. I've noticed fidgeting with jewelry, but like stroking the stem of the glass. I don't think I've ever noticed that. It's probably happened, but it just I haven't been on the lookout for that, so I haven't noticed it.

Charles: 45:24

Okay, so here are the things that she'll do if she is not interested in the current interaction continuing or in having an interaction with you. It says she doesn't make eye contact unless she's shy. But even with that, even if she's shy, she'll make eye contact and then look away. If she's not looking at you at all, then I don't think. I don't think. No matter how shy she is, she's not interested.

Charles: 45:49

She yawns repeatedly when you talk to her. Yeah, if a girl's yawning, then either she's very tired, and so the quality of your interaction is not going to be very high, or she's bored and she doesn't want to continue interacting with you. So, yeah, stay away from yawners. If she leans or turns her body away from you, again, yeah, she's not interested. If she looks over your head or is scanning the room while you're talking to her, she's not interested in what you have to say. Or the last one she tells you she's not interested in you, yeah, which, again, I think with a level of, with some level of social intelligence, it really has to get to the point where a woman tells you, hey, I'm not interested in talking to you, or I'm not interested in you the time when I see that step is going to be required is you're socially awkward or socially unintelligent, or you've been drinking too much and you're not noticing all the other very clear signals which he mentions specifically, that drunkenness is not attractive drunkenness is not attractive.

Dan: 47:00

Another reason why you don't want to get drunk is it numbs your perception, numbs all of the awareness skills and your ability to then take in information and read the room.

Charles: 47:08

And we've seen in another book I don't remember which one but basically guys will overestimate a woman's interest in them when they're drinking.

Charles: 47:19

If you, as a dude, is drinking to the point where you're buzzed or drunk you are going to probably your inhibitions will be lowered and you're going to assume that a woman has more interest in you than she actually does. Look I'm. We could go off on a whole long jag about why I think drinking at all in social situations may not be the best move, but certainly drinking more than a couple of drinks to the point where your judgment is being affected. You're not going to have the best outcomes when you do that. So take that for what it's worth. You will not be helping your cause if you think hygiene and clothing don't matter. They absolutely do matter. Having hair and facial hair that you groom, smelling good, not bad, and wearing a level of clothing that is just one notch formality-wise above what most of the other guys in the location are wearing, is going to help you tremendously show that you care right about not just about yourself and about things in general.

Dan: 48:29

I think, again, it's that potential that is attractive in any I I think that's just inherent in humans is if you can show ways and whatever that looks like, that you care about something enough to invest some time and energy into it.

Dan: 48:46

You're grooming, that's your career, that is a skill set that you're developing and you can show that. I think that that's critically important around you or interacting with you, versus the other way around, where if you are showing that you don't care about something because of the way you're dressed or the way you groom yourself or the you know the fact that you don't try of anything, you are then a burden. You are then saying someone come and help me and humans, we, we're not looking to have to exert any more energy and take care of somebody else or change them. That's a big issue I know with people is oh, this is all good, except I can. He needs to change or she needs to change and this, and that, whatever that's going to take some work on your part, that's going to drain you and whether they're going to change or not, regardless, and that becomes a burden and that's going to rear its head in ways that you probably might not expect. Yeah, come out in some sort of resentment at some point, I think.

Charles: 50:01

For sure, and it's interesting, as you were saying that I was thinking there are so many little ways that you can. You know, it's almost like when you know back to talking about video games, when you're playing a video game and you can go through the little world you're playing in and pick up those little med packs and those little health people. Yeah, there's so many little things you can right. That will just bump up how good you feel about walking into an environment where you're required. Great analogy in addition to not thinking hygiene or clothing matter, thinking drunkenness is attractive and again it's. You want to be a guy who is easygoing and fun, but you don't want to be a guy who is easygoing and fun, but you don't want to be a guy who communicates volatility and a lack of control, because if you do, there might be some really unhealthy girls that are super into that, but you're not setting yourself up for healthy relationships or healthy interactions.

Dan: 50:54

When you're at your worst and some girl's really into it, that's because she's currently at her worst as well yeah, and think about it this way if you can be a fun guy and social and bring positive energy to the situation without needing alcohol, I feel like that commands a lot more respect versus everybody who's oh, I need some alcohol or I need something to change my state of mind. I can't do it on my own. I need some sort of substance to put me in a mood where I am a fun person or whatever like that. And so I feel, if you can do that without that substance, hey, I think that conveys a much more powerful message.

Charles: 51:33

Yeah, and since I've given up drinking, I've definitely realized that there are places and events and venues where I can't handle them sober. So that means I probably should never have been there in the first place, and that's the case with most people.

Dan: 51:48

A lot of times, the reason why we are so driven to drink in some of these bars or whatever, is because if we would never walk into them, sober, think about if you walk by it during some of these bars during the day. The last thing when you're sober, the last thing you want to do is be in there.

Charles: 52:06

But then all of a sudden you get a couple of drinks and they're like that's your favorite place, but so it's yeah, and so what that tells me is like a place like mathathers, a place like Aloha Beautiful, I can enjoy those places without drinking, yeah. But some of the other clubs or bars in downtown Orlando, it's yeah. I didn't like being here when I was buzzed and I probably should have never been in those places. Same with certain people If you can only interact with somebody with a couple of drinks in you, that's probably somebody you don't need to have in your life in the first place. Your posture or demeanor indicates weakness or you otherwise look like someone who can't keep her safe yeah. If you're in a place and you don't want to be there and you're closing yourself off from other people because you're not enjoying yourself, yeah, that's not going to be somebody that is attracting interactions with others. You can't differentiate between confidence and arrogance. One is attractive to women, the other is not.

Dan: 53:04

One conveys security, one conveys insecurity.

Charles: 53:06

Yes, Arrogance is absolutely a compensation for I don't feel okay right now. So now I'm going to overpower you with how okay I am or how how great I am, how, whatever. Yeah, it's, yeah arrogance. Telling people about your accomplishments, telling people about your successes. It's when, when it comes to positive social interactions with men, women, employers, anybody it's always showed up. Show, don't tell now here.

Dan: 53:34

I think we need to be careful here too, because I think it is also important to be proud of the accomplishments that you've had. I think it's okay to talk about your accomplishments and things like that, as long as it's socially appropriate if the conversation is going in that direction. Versus try to versus example, versus versus you shoehorning it into a conversation because either you're feeling excluded or you weren't asked directly about it, I feel like that can come across as arrogant. However, if somebody asks you, hey, what went well for you this week, I feel like, or hey, how was your week? Or you know what? I'm saying yeah, how was your week? Or something along those lines, where they're asking about you, I feel in those situations, it's okay to talk about some of the good things that you've done. Interesting.

Charles: 54:20

To a point. Yeah, let's think about it. So if I said, how was your week, Dan? What would you tell me?

Dan: 54:35

I was able to finish up this project with a couple of clients. I discovered some new food in the supermarket. Like that was really delicious, something like that I don't necessarily. If it was like a big accomplishment, like I finally finished this project, this really big project, with a client and I was able to zip it up this week, I felt amazing about that.

Charles: 55:01

Okay, so that's a perfect example, because let me piggyback on that so, yeah, if you say I was finally able to finish a big project, and then you immediately go into and this is how much money I made off of it, or this is the that that's where it's cringy. Where you just say I finished a big project, yeah, Somebody who's interested in knowing the story is going to say what kind of project? Was it remote or were you on site? They're going to ask questions that allow you to talk to them more about the thing. But the arrogance comes in when it's like they're not asking the question. They're not asking those questions, but you're volunteering the information and you find yourself talking 70% of the time, while they're talking 30% of the time because you're trying really hard to impress them with how special you are. And that's the point where women in particular are going to be like this guy won't shut up. All he's doing is talking about how great he is.

Dan: 55:49

So if you want to impress them, then you need to know what they find valuable. So you got to let them ask those questions, give them that space to so that you can figure out what's important to them. Maybe how much money you made is important to them, but you're not going to know if you just, yeah, assume that's what's going to be important to them, because either that's important to you or you think it's important to them yeah, I, I would say yeah, saying things like I mean, by the time this is, we'll be on the other side of this.

Charles: 56:17

But what'd you do this week? Oh, I finally finished my search for a new car. I got a new car. I'm pretty excited about it. If they're not asking what kind of car it is, what year it is, anything like that, it's because they don't care and they're not interested. But if you're dropping, I finally found the new Porsche or BMW or whatever I was looking for then that's when it's like a little cringy. Oh, I got a great deal on a used car. It had low miles, it was only a couple of years old. I'm real happy about it.

Charles: 56:46

If you say that, then if they care, they're going to ask you for the details where it really is Volunteering. That it was a BMW or a Porsche or a Mercedes is cringy. Yeah, just saying, oh, I got a good deal on a used car. That's not cringy at all. And then, when they want to, if they want to know about it, and then it comes up organically that I bought a new BMW or I bought a used BMW. It's a few years old, but I got a great deal on it. That is not cringy at all yeah, but I got a great deal on it. That is not cringy at all yeah, but volunteering that you got a BMW is.

Dan: 57:20

So just give people the time and space to figure out, so you can figure out what they're actually interested in, because it could just be a social, social etiquette. I'm just asking, hey, like how's it going? That's not a question. You really want an answer, or or or, looking at an answer to most of the time, if they're a close friend, maybe it is, maybe they do want those right still let them ask.

Charles: 57:38

Let them ask, yeah, because volunteering details about anything with your career, your possessions, your time in the gym, like volunteering details that you think will communicate high status, it's gross and it's taking most of the time. It's taken that way by most people because it's like you're trying to impress them, like I had a great week in the gym. I made it every day that I planned on making it. And then if she's also into lifting or something and she's, oh, what's your favorite exercise? Oh, bench, I like to bench too. What's your pr? Let those details come out. The conversation wants to know and not just vomiting those details because you want to impress her, right.

Dan: 58:19

And that also conveys that you are interested in that person, and I feel like that also shows a level of confidence you have in yourself. Yeah, you're willing to be vulnerable enough to put your energy into somebody else and get to know them, and when you do, that makes them feel good. You're then bringing positive energy to that interaction, and I think that's what everybody wants. Everybody wants to feel better about interacting with you, walking away feeling a little bit better after that interaction.

Charles: 58:51

And yeah, I think, if you can keep your focus on, my goal in this conversation is to find topics that we both enjoy talking about and we can connect and share about. Not my goal is to drop tidbits that tell you how much money I make or how much I can live or how much success I've had with other women. You don't want to do any of those things. You just want to say, okay, let's bring up topics and when both of us aren't interested in it, let's cast it aside, move to the next one. We find something that we're both into and again, I hate to keep coming back.

Dan: 59:23

I don't hate to because I keep talking about it, but the energy again. If you are then sharing those tidbits, you're basically communicating that I'm looking for some sort of positive reaction from you. I need you, I want you to give me some of your positive energy. That's what you're asking for by constantly sharing, oversharing these tidbits, and to me it comes across as needy, a little bit right. And so now you are that energy taker rather than energy giver in that scenario, yeah, yeah absolutely yeah.

Charles: 59:57

If you are successful at your job, your hobby, your lifting, any of that stuff, it will come across to people who care to know about what your life is like in that particular area. All right, I think we went a little longer than I meant to, but that's what the edit button's's for, so we'll stop for now and come back with some additional personal updates here shortly. Sounds good, thanks, dan. Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode. Dan, and I know and appreciate that you have lots of options for men with microphones dispensing what they think is wisdom, and we are so happy that you chose to listen to us. Please check out our website mindfullymasculinecom for more Thanks.