Image is Everything

In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan explore the profound connection between body image, confidence, and relationships. Drawing from The Man's Guide to Women by Drs. John and Julie Gottman, they unpack the challenges men and women face regarding societal expectations, body image, and communication in relationships.

Key topics include:

• Understanding body image issues for both men and women.
• The impact of body perceptions on intimacy and sexuality.
• Strategies for fostering body positivity in relationships.
• The role of emotional intelligence in addressing societal pressures.
• How pop culture, like the Barbie movie, reflects and influences gender dynamics.

Key Takeaways:

1. Body Image and Relationships:
   • A person's perception of their own body influences how they interpret their partner's feelings about them.
   • Criticism of a partner's body or clothing can deeply affect intimacy and trust.
   • Compliments should focus on sincerity, avoiding comparisons to others.
2. Men and Body Image:
   • Men are increasingly exposed to unrealistic body standards through media, such as superhero physiques.
   • Confidence and self-acceptance are critical for both men and women in intimate relationships.
3. The Power of Communication:
   • Thoughtless comments about appearance can harm relationships, even when not directed at a partner.
   • Learning to navigate sensitive conversations about appearance is essential.
4. Pop Culture as a Mirror:
   • Films like the Barbie movie highlight societal pressures on women and provide insights into modern gender dynamics.
   • Men can benefit from engaging with these perspectives to better understand and support their partners.
5. The Importance of Emotional Intelligence:
   • Building a relationship on mutual respect, thoughtful communication, and shared vulnerability fosters deeper connections.

Call to Action:

• Watch the Barbie Movie: Gain valuable insights into societal pressures on women and how they affect relationships.
• Practice Compliments: Turn every positive thought about your partner into a vocalized compliment.
• Be Mindful: Avoid jokes or offhand comments about appearance—they have a larger impact than you might realize.

Episode Highlights:

• 2:27 - Exploring how women view their bodies and the role of culture.
• 6:19 - The relationship between body confidence and intimacy for men.
• 16:04 - Why men should watch the Barbie movie to understand gender pressures.
• 39:56 - How body image impacts sexual comfort and relationship quality.
• 42:14 - Rapid-fire tips on what to avoid when discussing body image.

Links and Resources:

• The Man's Guide to Women by Drs. John and Julie Gottman
• Listen to our episode on the Barbie movie https://youtu.be/k0ldYcw1Ook?si=lfyTGhmNY03ws9yZ
• Visit our website for full episodes and updates: mindfullymasculine.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Body Image and Gender Dynamics
• 13:03 Gender Stereotypes and Body Image
• 17:17 Navigating Criticism in Relationships
• 26:58 Respecting Appearance and Communication
• 31:49 Respecting and Building Relationships
• 37:00 Navigating Compliments and Body Image
• 41:53 Building Healthy Relationships With Compliments

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

Welcome back to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. In this week's episode, dan and I will continue discussing the Man's Guide to Women by Drs John and Julie Gottman, and topics covered will include body image and perception, the specific body image issues experienced by men and women, sexuality and confidence, communication in relationships, societal expectations and gender dynamics. Communication and relationships, societal expectations and gender dynamics, the importance of emotional intelligence, how you can use the Barbie movie as a shortcut to understand women, self-improvement and relationship skills, and a discussion of upcoming topics. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom for full audio and video episodes, as well as any news that we find worth sharing.

Dan: 0:44

Thanks and enjoy hello, charles, good morning. Hey, there dan how we doing, doing well you same, not too bad.

Charles: 0:54

it's gonna be a busy day. I got some errands to run before every place is closed tomorrow and before I'm gonna spend a few hours feeding my face tomorrow. So I've got I think I mentioned on the last one we recorded. I've got some cooking and baking to do today and trying to manage my time while I'm doing the cooking and the baking and be as productive. Getting stuff done around here, getting errands run while I'm waiting for bread to bake and casseroles to cook and stuff like that Nice, yeah, thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays. I'm looking forward to both the food and trying to steal as many leftovers as I can from my girlfriend's house to bring back it sounds like you're making some tasty dishes from what you told me, so let me know how they turn out.

Dan: 1:42

Definitely some unique variations on on like stuffing and things that I've never tried before. Yeah.

Charles: 1:48

But it sounds like it's going to be good, I think. So I'm looking forward to the. I've thought about doing an oyster based stuffing where oysters the protein. For a long time I've done protein less stuffing before. I think I've done a sausage stuffing once, but I've never used oysters. And yeah, I'll cook oysters, of course, yeah. And then I'm most excited about the bread pudding, the pumpkin praline bread pudding, and I'll probably get some vanilla ice cream to go on top of that as well. But okay, enough about that.

Charles: 2:22

We're in part four of this book, so we're getting into some of the sexy stuff.

Charles: 2:27

Prepare for me to be awkward, but the first chapter is about image and how understanding how women view their bodies. So we're not going to be getting into the anatomy, physiology and mechanics in this chapter, this episode, but we will in the next one. So we'll we'll get started with some of what you need to know and understand about how body-centric interactions with women work, based on how they think about their own bodies and the way you talk about and behave toward their body as well. So we're going to really get into the idea of Every woman I know has had some struggle with her perception of her body and how her body fits into the mold of what a woman's body is supposed to be, based on the culture or society that she lives in, and it's important to also know that the way she thinks about her body is going to affect the way she thinks you think about her body and the way that her body is a source of either pleasure or anxiety when it comes to your intimate activities together.

Dan: 3:48

Well, you had just said there that second piece there is. What hit me the most in this chapter, or one of the things that hit me the most in terms of a realization, is that her interpretation or her beliefs about her body is going to affect the way she interprets what you think about her body. Oh yeah, and that for me was eye-opening that sometimes it doesn't matter what you might say, she might have these preconceived notions that are that run a lot deeper than the things that you were saying.

Dan: 4:23

That she may have experienced over and over again for years and years, and that's where her beliefs and that's where her familiarity, that's where home right is for her, and so you might have a really tough job trying to like undo that. I think a lot of us have that tendency to. We love that person and we want to make them feel amazing. Uh, but sometimes it's. It can get frustrating, I think, for people outside of ourselves when we're trying to convince somebody of something that is goes against what they currently believe yeah, it's very hard to I would say impossible to convince someone they're worthy of anything.

Charles: 5:05

fill in the blank when they don't feel it about themselves. Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of where you have to start. And your own, the things you say and do toward her and her body, can be a factor in taking away some of that anxiety and feelings of not being good enough.

Dan: 5:24

That's a great way of keeping it in perspective, yeah.

Charles: 5:27

Yeah, and guys experience some of this, not to the same degree and I would say, not in the same way as women do. But one thing I've said before rather coarsely, and I guess I should caveat this first with you, and I talk about the cognitive shortcuts that we make as humans all the time and how we treat these things as facts or axioms when it's really just based on what I've seen. Here's what I believe to be true, and it saves us some brain horsepower to do that, and so we we do it fairly frequently. One of those that I've said before and I don't think I've said it on the podcast, I think I've just said it to you privately when it comes to a man's image of himself and his sexuality guys who leave their shirts on in the swimming pool are never good at sex.

Charles: 6:19

Okay, let's dig into that. So what I'm saying is, when you are self-conscious about the way you look and the way you view your own body and you take steps to hide that from people, I think that's a fairly reliable, fairly consistent not 100 perfect indication that when you find yourself in a bed with a lady or a guy that you want to be intimate with, the same thing that tells you it's a good idea to keep your shirt on when you're in the swimming pool is going to be the same thing that says I can't ask for what I want and I can't behave in a free and unencumbered manner in the bedroom because I'm not good enough.

Dan: 7:06

Yeah, yeah, and it diverts the attention. Ironically, you're trying to hide your insecurities or your feelings, but ironically, it actually draws more attention to it, and I think that holds true in the bedroom as well. And at that point, yeah, I could see that on both sides you want to be with somebody who is enjoying themselves and not feeling uncomfortable, because now it's. If you're not comfortable, I'm not comfortable because I'm witnessing this uncomfortableness and it's ruining for both of us yes.

Charles: 7:49

So again, if, if you're a guy who wears his t-shirt in the swimming pool and you think I'm completely wrong on this, my email address is dan at mindfullymasculinecom.

Charles: 8:01

Tell me all about it, send me pictures, whatever you need to do.

Charles: 8:03

And yeah, anyway, I brought all that up just to say, to try to put it in a context that maybe some of our listeners would be able to understand a little bit better than just the idea that women are being hit with these hundreds of advertising messages a day about what an acceptable toto-perfect body is, and if you don't meet up to that, you're really not worth that much.

Charles: 8:27

Because this is one area where guys are starting to experience a little bit more of the, a little more equality, in that all you have to do is go watch a Marvel superhero movie where every single one of them finds some excuse for the hero at the center of the movie to not have a shirt on at some point, and so he's standing there with his muscles and his dehydrated skin and his seven percent body fat, and you'll get a little bit of message of oh that's, if I'm going to be the star of the movie of my own life, this, this is what I need to look like. Again. It's not near the level of men as it is for women, but look, it is having some impact on younger guys who are being overwhelmed with that imagery.

Dan: 9:15

Not just there, but social media as well, with influencers and advertisements that seem to creep into every platform more and more, until at some point, it's mostly advertising on these platforms and a lot less about people connecting yeah, I sent you a video not too long ago that it had.

Charles: 9:37

It was one of those things that I feel like I knew, but I didn't really know. You have a higher chance as a man of reaching a one million dollar net worth than you do a visible six-pack you did.

Dan: 9:51

Oh, that's right. I would love to dig into the whole dad bod thing, where that came from, what it is that it is conveying to women, what, yeah, I I know very little bit about it, but it's just interesting to me.

Charles: 10:09

That would come about over the last few years where it's something people have been looking for I think it is mostly a pressure release for both men and women to say you're not going. You're probably not going to achieve what we have set up as being the epitome of physical attractiveness as far as your body type goes. So now let's put a spin on the body positivity movement to say that it's okay for guys to have this less broadly appealing physique, but you can still be considered attractive, which, again, I don't think guys need something like that as much as women, because our social proof and our social intelligence is definitely a bigger factor in our ability to mate with what we consider to be a good partner than our physical appearance and the shape that we're in.

Dan: 11:14

Yeah, and so that's what goes to. My question is I know that physical appearance is not necessarily as important to women as it is to men, so I trying to understand is this actual truth that lines up with heart, body and mind for women, meaning on the on a primal, biological level as well, and they are actually attracted to guys with beer guts and these dad bods that they talk about, or and?

Dan: 11:44

or is this some sort of like you said pressure release that is supposed to be a social pressure release but doesn't actually ring true in our bones?

Charles: 11:59

I'm skeptical of it and I feel like if a woman had two potential suitors and the only difference between them was one guy was not in a, not in bodybuilder shape where it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he's that muscled in, that vascular, but just a guy who looks like he works out and has a very low body fat and has a visible six-pack, or a guy with a dad bod. Everything else was equal. I think the story that a woman would say, oh, I'd rather cuddle the guy with the dad bod or I'd rather snuggle up with the guy with the dad bod I'm not saying it's not true for anyone, but I think it's not as true for as many people are saying it's true.

Dan: 12:50

I think it's a very socially acceptable lie to say that that's the case or could it be that because there is not going to ever be a case where two people are exactly equal on all of those levels, except for the physical nature? Or is this more of a way of women expressing to men that, yeah, physical appearance isn't as important as you might think it is to?

Charles: 13:13

us.

Dan: 13:14

That could be as well. You know what I'm saying. Maybe that's what it is.

Charles: 13:17

It could also be a message of there are other things about you as a person we would rather you invest in than your body.

Dan: 13:27

Yep, yeah, I think all that that's probably. I'm going to look at it from that optimistic point of view and say that's the message that I think and I think it is important because I think you can still be healthy. I'm not talking like really big beer gut from drinking too much constantly all the time, probably just a little, just taking the pressure off a little bit from needing to feel like you need to look like a superhero. Batman is for me and maybe.

Dan: 13:59

so that's the way I'm gonna interpret it and because I I know that if guys can do this too, the way women, with current pressure, focus way too much time and energy, and I know I've been guilty of that at times too, where I've focused too much time on working out and looking a certain way rather than developing other very important skills and qualities as a man?

Charles: 14:27

Yeah, I would agree. I don't know that I've spent too much time on the aesthetic at the cost of the other things, but I hope to in the near future.

Dan: 14:41

See, here's the thing.

Dan: 14:43

I think we all go through different periods of time in our life and I think it's unrealistic to think that we're always going to live this balanced life where we're able to equally focus on all of the things that tend to tickle our fancy at the time, and maybe spend a little bit more time on that and, yes, other things will probably need to take a back seat for that, and I think it's up to the individual to realize which things are okay to take the back seat, which things really do need to not be forgotten about quite as much yeah, I totally agree with that.

Charles: 15:24

That's definitely true. Okay, so let's get through this again with the one of the shortcuts I think you can take advantage of. Understanding this episode in this chapter is a watch or a re-watch of the barbie movie, because they, the writer, director of that movie, covers a lot of these themes and a lot of the Barbie movie because they, the writer-director of that movie, covers a lot of these themes and a lot of the pressures that women feel, which you know, one of the disappointing things. We did a whole episode on the Barbie movie. Let me see if I can quickly look up what episode that was. I'd like to do that, let's see, let's see. I'll find it and add it to the notes of this episode.

Charles: 16:04

But we did an episode all about that, and one of the things I found disappointing about the reaction to it particularly some of the male commentators both in the news and political space was you had all these women saying wow, the message of this movie resonates with me so much. It feels like the characters are really talking about what I experienced as a woman, and the response that a lot of men offered was no, it doesn't Again. You know, try that in your own personal relationships. When your, when your partner says hey, this really resonates with me, I really feel comfortable with this, I really identify with this and say no, you don't. And that's what it felt like a lot of guys were saying, you know, in response to what women were saying about that movie.

Dan: 16:56

You're delusional yeah.

Charles: 16:59

Not only is it's one thing to say no, life's not really that way, but it's another thing to say no, life's not really that way, but it's another thing to say your life's not really that way. But not only is this not objectively true, but you think this is true and you're wrong. You think this is true for you and you're mistaken. Yeah, I would say again you don't have to. You don't have to believe every conclusion or feel like every message in that movie is objective fact. But if you're dating or married to someone who saw the movie and identifies with the messages of it, you will be a more informed partner.

Charles: 17:35

If you understand the messages of it too and you know, there's no having to sign off. I have to sign off on every single thing in every single movie that I ever see for me to get anything valuable on. You don't even have to feel that way about this podcast. You don't have to agree with everything we say. Oh, you need to get some nuggets of value that could make things better. I mean, you should agree with everything I say because it's all you know, right?

Dan: 17:58

you could yeah, not everybody's all good and all bad. It's easier, it's a shortcut we all like to take right. Same thing, especially with like politics. It's like, oh, you've got it, you've got a certain letter behind your name, so of course, I'm going to vote for you. Meanwhile, this person could be you have no idea.

Dan: 18:17

That's where the hard work comes in. Hey, how did they vote? How do they behave? And it's going to be a lot of this. Stuff's going to be stuff you'd agree with and stuff you don't agree with. And so, the more we can get in the habit of really evaluating people based on their actions and past behaviors and keeping open mind, but still, before you make a decision, hey, yeah, this person's just going to be right, regardless of what they've done in the past and how they've behaved in the past, based on on that halo effect. There's one thing that they did that you really resonated with and oh, now they can. You know they're flawless. I catch myself doing it with Huberman all the time, yeah, yeah, you know and other people that I follow on social.

Charles: 19:01

So, yeah, yeah, and the biggest example for us in the last few years, and even with our podcast content, was Jordan Peterson. I mean, there's Jordan Peterson has said, and I assume continues to say I don't listen to him as frequently now as I used to some fairly important stuff, that you can get some morsels to make things a little bit better for yourself. And he says some stuff I think is absolutely unhinged. But him saying some unhinged things does not erase the good advice that he's offered in the past or that he may offer in the future.

Charles: 19:36

It just his ratio of things that I think make sense to things that don't make sense has changed recently to the point where I don't invest my valuable time in listening to him as much as I used to, because he's gotten a little wonky with how much he says wild, crazy stuff that doesn't doesn't seem real. Going back to his older material, all that stuff is still true. It was true when he said it's true. Now it's just I'm no longer a consumer of his, like I was back then, but I'm not gonna stop cleaning my room or making my bed because he said something crazy about the plus size model on the cover of sports illustrated. It'd be a lot easier life.

Dan: 20:17

If you did, I don't deal with this. He's wrong.

Charles: 20:21

Yeah, exactly, look in the value of the, the thing itself, rather than the source yeah, yeah, and any anybody who gives you good advice that challenges you to do something better tomorrow than you did today. You can find some reason or something about them that tells you to. I'm just going to ignore everything they've ever said because I don't like this one thing. That's a very easy life, bereft of any kind of self-improvement. Just shoot the messenger and if you can't find something to shoot them over, just keep looking and eventually you will and discount everything that they've ever said, and then you don't have to ever change anything or be better at anything. That said, if you haven't watched the Barbie movie, watch it. If you have watched it, maybe give it another watch. So that's my pseudo endorsement of the Barbie movie and my advice to guys to watch it.

Charles: 21:14

Okay, a woman's relationship with her body is fragile, and even one joke or mean comment about her weight, her size or attractiveness can, and likely will, cut very deeply. So it's very hard to come up with a reason to criticize a woman's body unless you're her doctor or her coach trying to train her for an ultra marathon. There's probably not a good reason to offer criticism of her physique. Can you think of something that, even if you're, even if you're a part, a romantic partner of someone who is dramatically quote-unquote out of shape, I don't think you're the person to offer that opinion or evaluation of her right. I don't see anything good coming from it no, if you're asked that's different.

Charles: 22:05

But, and even even if you're asked, you got to be real careful of course, absolutely, and you gotta read between the Like.

Dan: 22:15

Why is this question being asked Really? Is it what? What kind of assistance or guidance, if any, is being asked, or is this actually a a way to reconnect, or is it a way to feel closer and yeah that's. That can be a tricky situation.

Charles: 22:39

Yeah, and it can be a tricky situation. One one answer to this is always tell the woman that she looks beautiful. I have a little bit of problem with that advice because I think there are circumstances where any person might not look beautiful and I don't lie to people so it gets difficult again. You got to figure out.

Dan: 23:06

As we see during, uh, election campaign cycles, sometimes it's better to ask answer the question you want to answer instead of the question that's being asked yeah, and I think also it's I don't know exactly the best way to bring that up communicate ahead of time in maybe other ways, even maybe explicitly, that you like to tell the truth because you're not doing you're doing a disservice if you're not in in any situation, I think. And so if you start to build that reputation as the kind of person who is very honest, with that you might be able to make a little joke and and or you might be able to you know, pause and question if, if that question is asked and I think a mature, self-confident woman will be okay with some sort of feedback if it's the honest truth and isn't going to try to play games by looking for a fake compliment- yeah, but I think here's the.

Charles: 24:19

Here's a problem, if not the problem. I think the whole premise of this chapter is that we don't live in a society that incentivizes self-confident women like we. We are not. You've not set things up in such a way that becoming a self-confident woman is encouraged or incentivized, so you're probably not talking to a self-confident woman, so how do you navigate that? So if you hear the does this outfit make me look fat? How do you answer that?

Dan: 24:52

You fake a heart attack, as he mentions in the book.

Charles: 24:57

Yes, I'm not going to do that and I'm not going to lie. So how do I respond? I would say, just thinking off about it, off the cuff. Here, my answer is going to be something like you look beautiful, I'm not as crazy about that outfit as the green one that you had on before, or something along those lines. Don't criticize the body. If there is something that has to be criticized, criticize the outfit.

Dan: 25:28

And a lot of times I will criticize the outfit most of the time and I'm looking for how does it match the other things that she's wearing? So the shoe choice, the jewelry choice, right, the, maybe the nail polish choice, what kinds of things accessories? So I'm really trying to keep it away from the physical piece and more towards hey, how does this present in respect to the other things that you're wearing?

Charles: 26:00

Yeah, part of this is look, as guys we should be dating women that we believe are always one outfit away from looking stunning. If you're with somebody and you think, no matter what she wears, she's never going to look good enough for me, then you need to do both of you a favor and not be with her.

Charles: 26:20

Oh, a hundred percent a hundred percent, and if you're not with someone that you can sincerely compliment on a regular basis, and again, and I'm not saying it's what I'm not saying is okay Don't criticize her physical body. Instead of that, just constantly berate her style choices. I'm not saying that either, cause the choices a woman makes for her style is very personal and very important to her as well.

Dan: 26:50

But if you like her style, that goes into. Also if you are never into. Some people want to wear all black all the time and and maybe that's their style and if that's not for you, then I think the bottom line is don't try and change anybody. Just take them for who they are and support them, but also don't deny your own feelings about that and end up being with somebody because of some other reasons. And again you're fighting biology again, which we talked about that in the last podcast.

Charles: 27:33

Right, exactly, yeah, if you're just not into somebody and the way that they look, and again it's, there is some social intelligence here and emotional intelligence that you have to. If it's a matter of, hey, you wear black all the time, I think you look great when you wear something colorful and I'd love to see you in more colorful clothing. If that's something you're open to, something you're open to, then, depending on how much she respects your aesthetic style and how much she wants to look nice for you, she may try wearing something a little outside of her comfort zone for you, or she may not. Yeah, and it's her right to make that choice, either up or down. But yeah, it's really.

Charles: 28:13

You know, making comments or jokes about people's appearance is really. It needs to be limited because for women especially, it can be extremely hurtful because they've been told from a fairly young age that their primary source of value in the world is how cute, how pretty, how beautiful they are, not how smart they are, how interesting they are, how kind they are. They've probably had their looks emphasized as the source of their value if they've grown up in a western culture, certainly to a degree. That is just wrong, it's it's not, it's not right and I think you also run into the risk.

Dan: 28:58

also, if you're making jokes and thoughtless comments that roll out of your mouth, I think you're running the risk of also giving ultimately making yourself a a weaker person because you don't have the strength or the vulnerability to have thought of a kind and considerate way of expressing what you really want. Instead, you're blanketing it and you have a little facade of making a joke about it. Instead of coming forth and saying, yeah, I think you look better in the other outfit that you had on.

Charles: 29:43

Instead of making a thoughtless comment like you're wearing that Right exactly of a nice guy thing where you're just, you're not really being forthright and honest with your own opinion, or you don't have the confidence of your own opinion in a way, and you're expressing that by making that joke or the comment and when it comes to those jokes and comments, I'll even go a step further than the author and say when you're watching tv or clips on the Internet or whatever, the actress, the model, the politician that you're watching and making comments about her body, she's never going to hear what you have to say, but the wife or daughter or girlfriend sitting next to you, she's going to hear what you have to say and it's going to affect her going to hear what you have to say and it's going to affect her and also anybody else that they might have conversations with, because if it was hurtful enough now, she could be talking to her girlfriends, who could also be talking to her husbands about this, and you might have some relationships.

Dan: 30:49

Maybe these are co-workers of yours, the other people that that she knows in her world, and that, what sounds like a private comment that you made just between two people that can spread and really give people insight to who you're now presenting to be, even though that's not who you are.

Charles: 31:11

Yeah. So keep in mind, you're going to be judged not just about what you say to your woman or women. You're going to be judged based on what you say about. Any woman does right. Yes, it communicates. I am willing to boil down a person to just their body, and I am, I'm, willing to say negative things about someone just because I have an issue with the way they look, and so once you've revealed yourself as that kind of a man to a woman, she's going to assume that you're thinking about her that way too. Yeah, yeah.

Dan: 31:50

And that will really shoot yourself, cause yourself to come across as somebody who isn't trustworthy, isn't safe, is critical, is not somebody that women are comfortable being around and they are already under, feel threatened on a daily basis for their physical safety and what sounds like it's only if a couple of words it really. I think. Guys, you need to just realize how damaging that can be to for to them, but ultimately for you.

Charles: 32:30

You're ruining your relationships in advance yeah, and you can react to that by taking this attitude of I should get to say what I think. I should get to say what I don't like is okay, you can. Nobody's telling you if you tell a fat joke or something like that in poor taste. No one's advocating for you to be thrown in jail or lose your job, but you will. You will have the relationship with your partner that you create and part of how you create. That is what you say and what you do on a daily basis, and so just be aware of that. If your ability to say what's on your mind whenever it's on your mind is important enough to you to torpedo your relationships, by all means go for it, but don't do it blindly. And don't do it because nobody ever told you any better.

Dan: 33:22

Because, yeah, we're telling you something I can't stand is when people, both men, women just oh, I just, I keep it real, I see the truth exactly and okay, there's gonna be, there's gonna be both good and negative consequences to that, and you're not allowed to complain about the negative ones because, yeah, and and just take the good ones.

Charles: 33:44

That's not a delicate point across in a way that people can tolerate it. It's too hard to figure out. Okay, I've got something to say and it's something that might be unpopular. Now let me do the one extra step of figuring out how to deliver this in a way that people can actually hear it and accept it. Nope, that's too much work. I'll just say it as as bluntly and rudely as I possibly can, and then I'll also get to play the victim when people call me on it.

Dan: 34:23

Yeah, the first thing you described the first way to do it is you're actually trying to benefit other people in that way. The second way it sounds to me like they're just trying to relieve some sort of pressure valve in themselves. They need to say this thing, it has to get out, I need to get it out, kind of thing. So I think the intention of who it's helping is an easy way to figure out. Hey, what's the intention of saying this thing?

Charles: 34:53

yeah, and how invested are you? And also the feeling of I'm a victim, I'm just trying to express myself and I'm being treated unfairly. There's a lot of people right now that they want to be able to say things as bluntly and rudely as they can and suffer no consequences from it, and not be okay when people get turned off by the way that they express themselves and then, all of a sudden, it's the world's not fair to me anymore because the world hates honesty. No, the world doesn't hate honesty, the world just hates assholes.

Charles: 35:23

Okay, another thing to keep in mind is, while we as men can't reverse societal pressures on women to be thin and beautiful, we can take steps to make the women in our lives feel better about themselves and feel comfortable in their own skin. What, what you can do? That is every time you have a complimentary thought about the woman you're with, turn that into a complimentary phrase. Don't just do it yourself. I like that, yeah, which goes against some advice, because there there are. I would say do this with women that it's appropriate to do it with, like women that you're already in a relationship with. Don't don't try to use these compliments as a way to get yourself into a relationship with a girl that's not interested in you yeah, to be fair, I think most of where this book is headed or is for are people who are already in relationships.

Dan: 36:19

But up until this point, in these chapters, it's mostly to me it's healthy for even men who aren't in relationships to know some of these things. But I think in this area you're right, these are things that, yeah, it's appropriate at that point. Right, there is a level of trust there, there is some sort of commitment there and the dynamics change, and I think a lot of guys also don't realize how much they change when you go from just casually dating multiple people to a relationship in terms of the interactions you need to have with a woman and I know it wasn't obvious to me either.

Charles: 37:00

And one of the things we've talked about before too, is how skilled women have to be at telling the difference between a real compliment and a guy who's saying something to get what he wants out of them, where, if one of the women that I work with gets her hair done, I can say to her to her, oh, you got your hair done, it looks great and there's nothing inappropriate about that because, based on our established relationship, she knows I'm not trying to get something out of her for offering that compliment, whereas if this is a girl that you either knows friends and you'd like to be more than friends, or you're on your first date with her, then some of those compliments about her physical appearance can definitely come across as okay. This is not just a guy who voices his appreciation for things he finds aesthetically pleasing. This is a guy who's trying to butter me up to get what he wants from me yeah, it could be.

Dan: 37:53

I think women have such a great sense of what the meaning behind the words and the actions are that is so much more enhanced than what men have innately. I think, uh, it's almost a superpower compared to our level that just, guys, just make sure that everything that you say is sincere in the truth, in terms of the compliments, and it will come across that way through the way you say things, your tone, your inflection, your body language, and the women and women will pick up on that. Versus saying something to get something it's, you're not going to be smooth enough and slick enough unless you have been a professional salesman for years and years, and then you might get away with it once in a while maybe okay.

Charles: 38:41

Another important thing to keep in mind is that if a woman has a poor body image or believes that you don't find her attractive, she will not be comfortable with you sexually.

Charles: 38:49

And if she's not comfortable with you sexually and if she's not comfortable with you sexually, then the quality of time that she has while she's having sex with you is going to be dramatically decreased. Now, that's not to say she may be, you may have a great time in bed with her. She may do fun and exciting things with you in bed, but for a sustainable, healthy and enjoyable relationship, she has to be enjoying herself too. Not doing, not conducting her bedroom time in a way that is just to please you, so that you'll stick around or compliment her, or there's got to be that underlying safety, security and self-esteem for both partners to really be able to enjoy themselves with each other. And I think some guys will boil some of this down to is she willing to do the things I like or is she not? And if she's willing to do the things I like, then she's fine just as she is, and I don't need to worry about how good she actually feels, as long as I'm getting my needs met.

Dan: 39:56

Yeah, that's.

Charles: 39:59

That's not a long-term relationship, long-term recipe for relationship success. It's not going to. Even if you're having great sex with a woman who hates her body and doesn't think you're particularly interested in her body or particularly attracted to her body, that will come out in other areas of the relationship, even if the bedroom time is meeting your needs and she's into the things you're into or seems to be.

Dan: 40:26

Look at your other relationships for an indication of how well you're going to do in this area, meaning, do you easily keep and maintain friendships? And if you do, then chances are you're probably not going to struggle to be giving and generous and kind in the bedroom. If you also are that way, because're going to be with your relationships, with your friendships, and if it's not a struggle for you to do that with friends and family, then more likely than not you'll be fine, most likely in the bedroom as well.

Charles: 41:04

obviously, nothing's guaranteed right yeah you know, I think that's a pretty solid heuristic, I would say, I think. And what kind of friendships Do you have? Deep, close, intimate, long-lasting friendships Are you? One of the things I've said before is are you a guy who has at least one guy friend that you would be comfortable crying in front of? And if the answer is no, then I would say you've probably got a level of discomfort with your friendship, your feelings or both, that you could do some work and have higher quality relationships.

Dan: 41:42

Yeah.

Charles: 41:43

Yep, okay. Another thing to there's a list of you might be a zero if and we can hit these in rapid fire because I think they're all spot on Don't criticize a woman's body. Don't check out other women when you're with her, or comment on the body parts of another woman. Don't suggest that she goes on a diet or starts working out. Don't tell her that she does look fat in a particular outfit. Okay, I will disagree with that. The only correct response is you look beautiful in a particular outfit. Okay, I will disagree with. The only correct response is you look beautiful in everything you wear.

Charles: 42:14

Again, I think there is some. The truth often lies in nuance, not in black and white. If there there are outfits that a woman could put on, regardless of how beautiful she is, that you could think, uh, uh, that does not look great and it could have almost nothing to do with her or her body yeah, just the color, the shape, the cut. And and I think there there should be space for you to be able to say, yeah, I don't love that, I don't think you look your best in that.

Dan: 42:46

And I think it might be helpful to and he mentions this is small little comments, and sometimes randomly, about things that you appreciate, about the way she looks and her physical appearance.

Dan: 43:03

So maybe we, a way to think about this, might be separate who she is in terms of her physical body from what she's wearing. So you're, you're beautiful, but this outfit isn't that great and maybe find ways of varying the support of saying I'm attracted to you, I think you're beautiful, and separate that from hey, this isn't this clothing, this choice, the way this is lying on you or whatever. That isn't the best. I think that's maybe a strategy that I've tried to implore and so far it's worked pretty well for me at least. Implore, and so far it's worked pretty well for me at least. So maybe that's a way to doing it and not lumping it all together, like the way she looks isn't one thing right, it's who she is physically and then it's the outfit itself and exactly yeah yeah, something along the lines the way I would say and again, this could, depending on the girl, this, even saying something like this, could get you in trouble.

Charles: 44:11

Absolutely Nothing is foolproof other than saying you look beautiful in everything. I guess that's foolproof, but it's also not helpful, right? No, I see what you're saying. I look back at some of the women I've dated. If they said, does this dress make me look fat? And I say you look beautiful in anything you wear, a lot of them would respond to say, yeah, I didn't ask if his dress made me look ugly, I asked if it made me look fat.

Charles: 44:39

So, yeah, I feel like if you've got yourself a gal that's got a nice dry sense of humor and is willing to bust your chops and stuff, trying to come back to you, look beautiful with you, look beautiful and everything you wear is not going to, that's not going to get the job done. Something more along the lines of look, I love the way your hips look and that dress is doing nothing to show them off at all. Because and ideally, you're doing this in the dressing room at the store where she's thinking about buying the dress, not the one that she's already owned for a couple years and is her favorite. So keep that in mind as well, which is another reason to go shopping with your girlfriend or your wife. You get to have a vote, but yeah. So I would say yeah, if there is any negative criticism to offer, it should be about the garment, not about her body.

Dan: 45:37

In fact, offer a compliment about her body and then offer the critique on the garment but consistently offer compliments is if what she's wearing now, if there's something that you particularly like and you compliment her on that, will be somewhere in her subconscious as she moves forward and picks other outfits to purchase and to wear. Great point, you're communicating what you like and it's almost you're sincere about it. Right, and it's a double benefit. It's helping her feel you know, connected and loved and appreciated by you. But also your benefit out of it is you are, you're encouraging something that that you like and look. In a healthy relationship, both people are going to want to make the other person feel attracted to them and feel good.

Dan: 46:31

It's not like you're asking them to radically change anything. It's just you're expressing what your preferences are.

Charles: 46:38

Yeah. So here's a couple other things to avoid Don't compare her looks to other women or past girlfriends, and again, that's don't compare.

Dan: 46:49

So that's a period at the end of that sentence, right? Don't compare Fair enough.

Charles: 46:53

Dunk yeah. But keep in mind and that's not giving you a pass to say, even saying you're prettier than my ex-girlfriend or you have a better body than my ex-girlfriend, that's still communicating that you're thinking about your ex-girlfriend.

Dan: 47:08

That's important point. Correct, it's not obvious, but that's an important point. So it's. And most guys would be like what are you talking about?

Charles: 47:17

I told you you were better and that they're going to die on that anthill Exactly. It's a layup to know. Hey, don't say that your current girlfriend's not as pretty as your ex-girlfriend. We all understand that's easy. Any more on those that. But don't go the other direction and use your ex-girlfriend as a way to compliment your current girlfriend, because that's a disaster too.

Dan: 47:36

You're so much better than my ex-girlfriend In this. Yeah, that just. I don't like that.

Charles: 47:42

Yeah, most women I have dated, for the most part, would rather be able, at least on a daily basis, to just pretend and act as I and act as if I've never dated or been with anybody but them.

Dan: 47:54

Yeah, and I think most guys probably. I was going to say like to shoot that way, but, yeah, absolutely Right, we wouldn't want to be hearing. On the same token, oh yeah, why does this guy keep hopping up? Eventually, that thought would come to mind is why should we talk about our ex-boyfriend? Yeah, yeah is like, is this not over? And then our brains go to emergency mode and over overthinking and overreacting mode and it's just like oh, maybe there's more here that I'm not hearing about. What am I not hearing? And when it comes to this guy, I had this in the past too, where I would talk negatively about my ex-girlfriend to the current girlfriend and didn't understand why the current girlfriend would be upset about any of this, and it's just yeah even if you're complaining about it.

Dan: 48:41

it's just two things. One, you're talking and thinking about your ex and you may not totally be over that. That could be an indication there. And two, it signals to her that if things weren't going to work out, maybe you'd talk horrible things about her and at that point she could be a little bit distrustful of the kind of person that you are.

Charles: 49:05

Yeah, I think there's a place for discussions about your relationship history and some of the things that worked and didn't work in your previous relationships, but don't bring it specifically into this setting of offering compliments to your girlfriend. You know what I mean. You can have discussions about hey, here's some things I did wrong in previous relationships. Here are some of the things that my partner didn't fill my needs in this way. Those are okay conversations to have, but you don't shoehorn those conversations into just complimenting your partner on the things you like about them.

Dan: 49:44

It's a delicate moment of vulnerability and intimacy that you could be ruining by doing that. It's a way that you can get closer to your partner by showing her love and support and being helpful and being the man that she thinks you are, by by being kind about her and potentially, I think, separating the woman from the outfit agreed.

Charles: 50:16

And then the last point is don't treat her like a sexual object rather than a real person. Yeah, I would say there is a place for don't deny her or your sexuality in the relationship. Humans who are mentally, physically healthy, like sex, they like having sex, they like talking about sex, they're into sex. So don't pretend like that's not a very important aspect of your relationship, but also don't act like that's all she's for is to meet your sexual needs.

Dan: 50:55

Yeah, yeah, Heart, body and mind he talked about in the last chapter.

Charles: 50:59

Yeah, exactly.

Dan: 51:00

And so look for things that you respect and appreciate about her heart and about her mind as well, and don't be afraid to express those things.

Charles: 51:10

Yes, absolutely All right. Great Thanks, dan. I appreciate our next, our next chapter. We're going to start getting into the the nitty gritty of anatomy, physiology, mechanics, and we'll we'll start talking about sex a little more and that'll be the episode that I get a little weird and maybe a little blushy, a little awkward. So look forward to that. Good times, all right, thanks, dan. We'll talk to you soon, all right, bye-bye. Thank you so much for listening to our entire episode and staying until the end. Dan and I know that you have many options when it comes to men who think they're smart with microphones, and we're glad you chose us. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom again for all of our audio episodes, video episodes and any important news we feel like sharing. Thanks again.