Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Shopping Matters More Than You Think
In this insightful episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan dive into the surprising significance of shopping in relationships. Inspired by insights from The Man’s Guide to Women by John and Julie Gottman, they explore how shopping can influence communication, emotional connection, and overall relationship health.
Key Topics Discussed:
- How shopping dynamics differ between men and women.
- Understanding societal and cultural perspectives on shopping.
- The role of shopping in cultivating style and self-expression.
- Biological and historical roots of shopping habits.
- Tips for navigating crowded malls and managing shopping stress.
- Why shopping is a long-term predictor of relationship success.
- The art of supporting your partner’s shopping habits (even if you don’t love it).
Takeaways for Listeners:
Charles and Dan offer practical advice for men who want to strengthen their relationships by understanding their partner's shopping mindset. They also share tips for balancing personal boundaries with active support, avoiding conflict, and finding ways to make shopping more enjoyable for both partners.
Don’t Miss:
The insightful discussion on how shopping habits reflect deeper emotional and social connections—and why criticizing your partner’s purchases may be more harmful than you realize.
Connect With Us:
Visit mindfullymasculine.com to explore all our episodes and discover additional resources designed to help men thrive in their personal lives, relationships, and beyond.
Welcome back to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. In this episode, dan and I will continue our discussion of the Man's Guide to Women by the Gottmans and we will get into shopping dynamics, perspectives and opinions on shopping typically held by men and women and how they differ, navigating those differences, how shopping practices and goals and expectations can affect relationship, health, communication strategies, some societal and cultural observations, understanding and supporting the women in our lives and mitigating potential conflicts, as well as some other topics. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom. We post our audio episodes, our video episodes and any other information we find worthy to share and enjoy.
Dan:Hey, Charles, good morning.
Charles:Hey, dan, welcome back. I was going to change the color of our lights, which will make it easier for me to tell which episode is which, and I forgot to do that, so I'm going to do it right now, before our very eyes.
Charles:Ooh love it. See, I love that green. Let me make it a little bit more blue. We've got these fancy lights that are remote controlled by an app a little too much. Okay, I like it there. So, yeah, there we are. We just finished our our episode a little bit about the conflict resolution, things like that which is in this section of how to live with a woman, and big function of living with a woman is procuring the resources you need to have a life and a home together, and that's usually done through the process of shopping, and so we're going to talk a little bit about how to shop like a girl. Look, I'll be honest, this has never been much of a problem for me. I don't mind going shopping, and I think part of that was growing up in the rural area of Florida that I did in the mid-80s. Going to the shopping mall was like everything. That's where you went to socialize, that's where you went to have fun, that's where you went to go to the movies. I don't think it was just here.
Dan:I think it was back then no-transcript.
Charles:So then eventually many of us got jobs at the mall and it was the center of our social experience, based on the ages. You're 50, I'm 47. So I still enjoy going to the mall, like when when I'm on a kick to get my steps in and the weather's not perfect in in my estimation meaning it's too hot in florida or too rainy that I'm spending my time walking around a shopping mall getting my steps in that way, and so going shopping for clothes or home goods or whatever with the woman in my life it's always been something I've enjoyed. So when I watch all the trope the sitcom tropes about how much guys hate shopping, I'm just not one of those guys, so I don't completely identify with it.
Dan:Yeah, my mom used to take me shopping with her when I was younger, and I didn't really enjoy it at the time because I didn't have any resources to buy anything myself.
Dan:Right, it seemed like it was a lot more torturous back then, when I was a kid, because a lot of it was spent with my mom looking at shoes or dresses or whatever, and there really wasn't anything for me to do there other than sometimes sit under the clothes rack or try to hide from her or whatever but or sit there. So now, when I go and I have some resources to buy my own thing or and there's a lot more things that I'm interested in to look at it's not nearly as bad as when I was a kid. So that's where my base level is. So I really don't mind going. And if I know, though, again setting the intention ahead of time, that we're not going in for a targeted a purchase and then leaving, we've, we're just going. Okay, we're going to go and spend a few hours at the mall looking at for stuff. We'll see what's there. If I, if that's been communicated ahead of time, then I'm. It's a lot more tolerable for me and almost enjoyable.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, the. The only thing that makes it unenjoyable for me is usually the crowds at the mall. Um, so I tend to. I had to go to the Florida mall to pick up. I had something oh, it was a new shirt that I bought sent to the Macy's at the Florida mall, because oftentimes when you buy online for store pickup, it's the bigger stores that already have it physically in the building, so you can get it that day or the next day instead of having to wait five to seven business days for it to get delivered to the store close to your house. And so, since I travel Tampa Orlando so much, I'll look and see okay, where could I, where could I have this waiting for me the next time I pass by that store? And in the case of the Orlando Tampa area, it's either the international mall in Tampa, which is the fancy one, or it's the mall millennium Orlando or the Florida mall. So, as a result, I find myself in those malls most often, and around the holidays those are the ones.
Charles:Florida mall is probably the worst. Malt Millenia can get crowded, but not insane. Where Florida mall, it's both the biggest mall in Orlando and it's the most touristy mall in Orlando, so you get a lot of people from other states, other countries, that are just walking around looking at stuff and so, yeah, making your way around that mall in any kind of and again, it's a targeted mission, I've got one thing at the mall, at the one store that's waiting for me. I've been there enough to know if you're picking up something from Macy's, you don't park at Macy's, you park outside of Dick's Sporting Goods and then you walk over to Macy's. You park outside of Dick's Sporting Goods and then you walk over to Macy's because you can get great parking outside of Dick's but you can't get good parking outside of Macy's. And yeah, it's like I've got a whole agenda and a whole mission to get in and get out, because I know that the crowds are going to be miserable.
Charles:Where in the middle of summer, where it's not so crowded, I'll think, oh, okay, and then I'll go to Macy's, but yeah, the holiday crowds that mall are ridiculous. That can be frustrating to me. So that would probably be a situation where if my partner was like, hey, let's go kill a couple hours looking for stuff at the mall, my thing would be like okay, which mall are we going to? What time of day are we going to?
Charles:What can we do to minimize the factors that would make this as unpleasant on me as possible, while still giving you what you're looking for in the experience? Because one of the things that we'll get to later is the idea of if you hate this, don't do it, because if you hate it, you're going to be not fun to be around while you're doing it, and that I apply that rule to a lot of things that I hate, where it's like, if you want me to go to a concert of your favorite artists and I'm not into live music and I'm not into their music, then the conflict that arises from me saying no is preferable to the conflict that arises from me saying yes and being a miserable prick the whole time I'm there.
Dan:One of the things that you could consider is trying to find things that you can only do at that mall. So maybe it's eating some junk food that you don't normally eat. You're going to treat yourself to a pretzel or some Chinese food, or whatever it is that help.
Charles:All right, let's find what's a little treat, or the mall does have a Shake Shack and a Cheesecake restaurant that are both pretty high end.
Dan:Incorporate that with the day. Or go in and stop at the Apple store and take a look at some of the latest technology there, or find yourself if she's going to look at shoes, look at what other stores are there and see no-transcript. I love doing that.
Charles:Yes, absolutely.
Dan:Yeah, just find ways to break it up where it's not just you waiting around for her to go shopping and pick something out.
Charles:Yeah, and I'll repeat a couple of the notes that we hit during I think it was atomic attraction, where, when I go to the mall to look for clothes for myself, most of the other shoppers that I encounter in the men's department are women who are buying clothes for the men in their life oh interesting. I recommend against being a man who has his clothes shopping done for him, because that puts you in the category of someone whose responsibility it is it's your wife's responsibility to dress them.
Dan:I feel like we call those people children. I was about to say.
Charles:I feel like you're putting yourself in that category of yes, of being offspring that she's responsible for taking care of, because they can't do it on the on their own.
Dan:And.
Charles:And I would say Nothing builds attraction like being one of her children, correct or thought of as one of her children, not want to be thought of as a child or a dependent on your wife. So I would say one of the things you can do on these shopping excursions that you may not be super excited about is build your skill as a shopper for menswear. And even if that's just looking around and deciding I like that, I hate that, oh I could wear that, I would never wear that. Just going walking around and doing aware of what's out there, doing some of that evaluation, connoissance mission Exactly what is my style, what kind of stuff am I into? What kind of stuff am I not into?
Charles:If you're like me, it's very hard to. I'm hard to buy gifts for because I just I see things I want and I just buy them. But yeah, once you put in a little bit of work to cultivate a personal style what shirts, what accessories, what belts, what kind of stuff are you into wearing Then when it's time for your birthday or Christmas, you can give people clues like oh yeah, I saw something that I liked the other day and it was this. Or yeah, just, I certainly do say take the time to care enough about your style that you want to shop for your own clothes. And again, if your wife is buying, or your girlfriend's buying, bed sheets or curtains or something that you find, it's one thing.
Charles:If you're going lingerie shopping with your girlfriend, it's pretty easy to stay involved in that, but if it's we need a new mixer or we need a new air fryer and you don't have a lot of interest in that, then yeah, go spend your time in a decent men's department and and take some just mental notes even of what your style is, what you're into, what you like. Maybe, if you see something that's a good deal, go ahead and buy it for yourself, and that will make these trips. It'll make you more attractive to your partner because you'll be cultivating a sense of style and women like that, and you'll also have a way to spend the time that you don't find torturous. So that's one thing I would suggest to do. So where does this come from? We always talk about Most of our history was as hunter-gatherers. Specifically, the men were the hunters and the women were the gatherers.
Dan:Now it's funny because it makes total sense when he explained that right and I've heard that for years and years but never have.
Charles:I ever Good point the gatherings and shopping.
Dan:Or women with the gathering and men with the hunting. But, yes, that makes total sense, but I never thought it, just I never. I never thought about it that way. And then it starts to lead you down the path that he takes us on the book, and it's insightful.
Charles:Yeah, absolutely, and yeah, it feels functional and it feels like important work for a woman to go out and find the appropriate resources that she needs or that the family needs.
Dan:Right, it's important for the men too, because she's providing some additional sustenance for you. Also, medicine that part of that gathering was not just food. It was, you know, medicine, it was things, branches, yeah, whatever's needed to keep people alive.
Charles:Yeah, and so that's where her clothes or the houses, the new curtains for the living room, it all. Still it scratches that itch that women have in going out and finding the right thing for the job and bringing it back to the cave and so providing yeah, exactly, and so just shutting that down and deciding I don't like it, so you're not doing it, or you, I don't like it, so I'm not going to go with you when you do it. If you yeah. If you can't figure out a way to make it at least bearable, if not pleasant, if not enjoyable, then yeah, it's better if you just leave her to it. But there is an opportunity cost there. When you say, hey, I realize this is important to you, this is something you're into. I'm not going because I can't figure out a way to not hate it, then yeah, you're going to. You're going to take yourself down a peg as a partner.
Dan:Unless you spend the time to find other ways to connect with her.
Charles:Correct.
Dan:Yeah, it's a low. I think it's like a low investment of time and energy to just go shopping with your woman and have that sense of connection, and I think, yeah, you're missing out on an opportunity to really solidify the relationship. So then we do have conflicts, which is what we talked about in the last podcast.
Dan:Yes, yeah, that's something we get a lot, it's a lot easier for that woman or for you also, to calm down and realize that hey look, there's a lot of reasons why we should be de-escalating our emotions, because there's so much good here. And if you're doing things regularly where you're connecting on that level it doing things regularly where you're connecting on that level it's a lot easier to remember when things are stressed.
Charles:Yeah, and I think we could have hit that a little heavier on the last episodes. I'm glad you brought that up. That, yeah, if you are invested in each other's lives and your good friends, your good companions, you have a lot of positive time together when you're not either in an argument or in bed. Then, yeah, it makes it a lot easier, when a conflict does come up, to remember, hey, why is it worth working through this problem, instead of just losing your stack and saying screw it, screw this relationship, screw this partnership. I'm done, sure, and yeah, I think, um, what's the rule about it Taking five positive interactions to offset every one negative interaction, or something like that?
Dan:So it might even be more?
Charles:Yeah, it might be, and uh, we'll, we'll try to get the details. I don't know if that was from this book. I don't think it was. I think it was from something else that we read that, uh, yeah, every negative interactions are unfairly weighted compared to positive interactions, and so it's important that you offset those negative experiences that will come and that you will have to deal with lots of positive experiences. And yeah, I don't remember it might have been compliments versus negative words or something like that, but there's a ratio there that reinforces the idea that you need lots of positive interactions to offset the negative ones. That will eventually happen.
Dan:Again, it comes back to how we're wired and our brains are wired for danger, pleasure and danger Danger. So when we get negative feedback, it's going to be a lot more powerful because we're going to feel that a lot more and whenever we feel things more, we remember them more easily, and that's unfortunate when it's the negative stuff.
Charles:Yeah, easily, and that's unfortunate when it's the negative stuff, yeah. Another thing to keep in mind that shopping for women is an expression of creativity and it can be a positive social experience for them as well, which might mean they're more into talking to other customers and shopkeepers and salespeople than you are. I am not by any means into talking to people when I am shopping at all. I would rather be left alone and leave other people alone. I opt into self-checkouts. Every single experience, every opportunity I have to use a self-checkout, I'm going to use a self-checkout. Yeah, yeah. I like to minimize my human interactions when I'm out to find something that I'm specific, that I'm looking for, with some exception.
Dan:Let me then ask you do you feel like you are limiting your yourself by doing that easy little thing, just by by going to a checkout and having to have a two, two second conversation with somebody who's working there? Do you feel like that's, that is, that that could be an opportunity for growth for you? No, all right. Next topic All right, all right, we'll move on.
Charles:I don't. I could be wrong. Listen, there's a chance that I'm wrong about this, but I do not feel like I'm missing out. So, yeah, there are some differences where I'll say it like this If I'm in a situation where I can have a conversation with someone who knows their product better than I do, then I look forward to those. Okay, so if I go into the Allen Edmonds shoe store and I have a conversation with one of the sales guys working there, I seek out conversations like that because I know a lot about their shoes and they know even more than I do and I I get excited about that.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:Whereas if I'm popping into Macy's and I'm buying a new pair of Levi's or new polo shirt or something like that, I probably know more about the product I'm interested in than you do and I also know more about the colors that work for me, the colors I look good in, the colors I like wearing. There's really not somebody that what I would consider a mid to low tier salesperson is going to be able to bring me.
Dan:Okay.
Charles:And then so am I. So then, otherwise, am I just looking to have random conversations with random people? Not really.
Dan:For me. I I'm not looking for a conversation necessarily out of somebody who's working the checkout line, cause most of the time I actually do go to the checkout lines not for any reason other than.
Charles:You've been at Target and Publix and stuff.
Dan:Yeah, Really yeah, as long as three years older than me. Yeah, as long as the line isn't more than two or three people back. I don't, I just naturally do it. I don't really consciously think about it, but I realize that I do enjoy it because usually there's a little bit of a hey, how's it going? You get a smile, Maybe they give you a compliment on something that you're wearing, or the or oh, I wanted to try this food too.
Dan:Is it really good? And it's just a little bit of makes me feel good because I feel like it was a positive experience and 95% of the time it is. There's 5% where they're not having a good day and they're not giving me any positive energy out of that, but more often than not it's just, it's a little pick me up and I usually feel a little bit better like walking out of there. Just even if it's just a hey, how's it going? And I get a smile kind of thing. Interesting, that's funny and I didn't have to earn it at all. It's just a hey, how's it going, and I get a smile kind of thing. That's funny.
Dan:And I didn't have to earn it at all. It's just that they're just.
Charles:that's part of the process, that when they're checking me out, On the other way, where I would stand in line to use a machine rather than just walk to a cashier's line that's completely empty, potentially get me out of there even faster and probably bag my groceries in a more interesting, more trained way. But yeah, maybe that's just a function of my introversion, I don't know. Women make about 85% of the buying decisions for the household. I would be uncomfortable with that number as somebody running a household or not running a household, being a participating member of a household. If there was that much of a disparity, that would bother me a little. How would you feel if you were to live with someone again? How would you feel about her making 85% of the purchasing decisions? No, you wouldn't be down for that, nor would I.
Dan:Okay, are we talking dollar-wise or volume-wise, right? So that's the thing, right, I'm going to say dollar-wise groceries and like little things like that or whatever, not a problem if it's just pure amount of stuff. But if it's an actual dollar value where we're both contributing quite a bit to our financial situation and I for high ticket items, just like I wouldn't expect her to be okay with me making most of the decisions about really expensive, if we're sharing money or if the decision that I'm making is going to affect her and her financial situation, like buying a new air conditioner or a new washer dryer.
Dan:Exactly those are, I think, conversations that need to be had, yeah, decisions that need to be made.
Charles:Yeah, I would usually be more like, hey, I've got some opinions, I'm going to take point on this no-transcript to go out and see what I like. Yeah, let's talk more about women in shopping. Shopping, yeah, will often require a good memory as far as comparing. Oh, I saw this thing I liked at this store. I saw this thing at this store. This one was this much, this one was this much. They had my size here, they didn't have my size here. There's a lot of work that goes into that. That women's memory tends to be more optimized for than ours is.
Dan:Yeah, he cited a study where it showed that when the women have better memory than men and that was basically proven or supported by the, when they had the people come into a room and basically they'd have them sit there for I don't know like 20 minutes before they'd move them into a different room and they'd ask them. And it was. I think it was a room full of, like hoarding, so it was, somebody had hoarded a bunch of stuff and the men would go into the other room and how many objects did you remember out of that other room? On average, it was seven. For women it was 20, wow, and they were just sitting there for 20 minutes or so.
Dan:Yeah, and that was. That was a pretty, pretty shocking difference. Yeah, and it makes sense because they needed, when they were gathering, they needed to know, okay, what markings on what plants indicated that they were gathering. They needed to know, okay, what markings on what plants indicated that they were edible or poisonous, or what was medicine, what was not just knowing where to go for things. And remember, hey, this plant grew over in this area and these berries were over there, and so a lot of that is again just, I think, built into the ancestors of the women that you know alive back then, right yeah.
Charles:And the ones that lasted long enough to to reproducing and keep their kids safe enough to reproduce? Yeah, okay, we did mention that. As a man, you can be very mission focused when it comes to shopping, where you just go in, get the thing you're looking for and leave Again. I spend some of my time that way and I spend some of my time just kind of lollygagging about the mall, looking at things and getting steps in and just spending time in that environment. But women definitely associate shopping with more social connection and emotional connection than men typically do Not always, but typically. Research shows that the degree to which a woman is clothes conscious is a long-term predictor of marital success. We both had relationships that failed or ended, for whatever reason. It has certainly been my experience that how much my partner partner cared about her, her style, her appearance, what she was wearing, how she looked as the relationship got closer and closer to ending, the amount of care that she put into those things certainly decreased. Have you found that to be the case in your history as well? Not?
Dan:always Okay, but, yes, there have been times where the person I was dating just took less and less care of you. Know how she presented herself and, to be honest, I was guilty of that as well, oh yeah, where it was either a lot of weight gain or it was just On your part.
Charles:On my part. Yes, yeah On my part, or.
Dan:Yeah, also probably holding on to clothes that Should have been retired, probably. Yeah, yeah and just yeah, not, not focusing on being my best self for myself or my partner.
Charles:Yeah, so I guess, that being the case, the fact that actual scientific research shows that the more more closed conscious she is, the more likely she, the marriage or the relationship, is going to last, that would probably be a good reason to do things that encourage her interest in shopping to remain strong. Yeah, yeah, I would say so. If you had to tamp down that interest in procuring clothing and shoes and things that make her feel like she is stylish, then she is going to care. You're basically incentivizing her to not care about how she looks if you're making shopping a difficult process for her.
Dan:Yeah, and that also supports previous chapters in the book where he talks about supporting and loving your partner in terms of giving them little compliments about the way they look here and there randomly, authentically, and just loving the way she looks and how she is now and enjoying and making her feel like she's beautiful and she's attractive and she's attractive to you, and all those things will build positive reinforcement.
Dan:And I think a lot of that also goes by the wayside because people they fall into one of these, the four horsemen of the apocalypse of the ending of a relationship, and they end up not expressing those things and they did at the beginning of the relationship or before they were married, and now it's gone, and so I think again, a lot of these things are just end up becoming spiraling vicious cycles that really are difficult because a lot of times we're not even aware that it's happening and that what one thing does is contributing to the other and it's going in the wrong direction, until sometimes it's too late, sometimes you don't even realize until you go to a therapist and at that point you're just you guys have checked, both checked out at that point and you may be able to check in, or you may.
Charles:there may be no checking back point. The one thing I thought he was the end of the list of the sort of cheat sheet for heroes here is don't complain if she spends a lot of time shopping for shoes, specifically high heels, and there's a little section in here. I didn't. I was not familiar with the term lordosis before I read this book Me either which is the courting posture of mammals where a female mammal will have an arched back, thrust out, buttocks and I think also hips that are forward, yep, and that is, in the animal kingdom, a symbol of sexual readiness. So that's why, as a species, we're all into high heels. I thought that was interesting and, yeah, we like the way a woman's body looks when it's being supported by high heels. And yeah, I would say, don't poo the idea of her wanting to spend time and some money on some shoes, having nice shoes to wear, and yeah, you'll usually enjoy that.
Charles:I will say that there is another part of this book where he offers some strategies on making the trip to the mall or the store easier. Bring a book, bring your iPod. I guess those were a thing when he wrote this Catch up on email, find an arcade, find ways to entertain yourself if you can't stand looking at the clothes with her. Yeah, he also uses the, the word, the phrase man up again, which again I feel like if we could get rid of the phrase man up in in most situations, I think we would probably be better off as a species. Yeah, that's a criticism that I've definitely expressed before in this book and it's funny because I feel like gotman knows better. Yeah, and well, he definitely does. Yeah, and so it's a shortcut for just do it, get over it. But it really seems like you know not helpful.
Charles:I'm not going to say this to anybody in my practice. I'm not going to tolerate anybody saying this to me, but I want to sell this book to some dumb guys too, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it in there, because maybe it'll resonate with them which feels condescending to me, and it probably is in some respect.
Dan:but if it sells more books and it gets it and it helps the medicine go down in some respect, right, Then that's the listen, that's his style. When you write your book, you don't need to do that.
Charles:Correct, you're right. You're right. I think there's still more good things than bad, some of the things that you should not do. You should not neglect to understand a woman's relationship to shopping. You should not judge or criticize her for shopping. You should not expect her to shop the way that you shop when you're on your own and you want to just pop in, grab the thing you want and leave. Don't criticize her purchases or her appearance, and that's the other thing. When it comes to criticizing the outfits, the style, the way she looks, the time to have feedback or input on these decisions is when she's shopping. So when she's in the dressing room trying something on and walking it out to show it to you for your opinion, then you could have an opinion on how that specific outfit looks Once she's already decided she specific outfit looks. Once she's already decided she likes it.
Dan:Once she's bought it, when she's brought it home, once it's sat in the closet for six months and then she wears it for the first dinner out, that's not the time to say you don't like it yeah, I think, guys, we need to look at this also and realize that this comes from our history, where we were providing in the form of hunting and they were providing in the form of gathering, and so this is really tied to self-worth and self-esteem.
Dan:Even though if she's buying dresses and purses for herself, it is still like a reflection and I feel tied a little bit more closely to the value that she has of herself.
Dan:And so, if you're going to criticize some of the decisions that she's making, be careful to walk, tread lightly when you're doing that, and maybe even just suck it up and man up and not say anything if you don't like some of these purchases, because then I think it's a real easy it's not a far leap for the woman then to feel like she's not providing for the family or there's something wrong with the way.
Dan:So let's turn it around. What if she was criticizing about the way you do your job right, or the money that you're bringing home or not bringing home, or the decisions you're making at work right, or in the way that you are providing for the family, whatever that looks like, and turn that around. How would you feel? Probably not great Right, especially if it was like she wasn't there and you're making these decisions. It's same thing if she's shopping and you weren't there and then she comes home and then you make you make these criticisms. I think we need to be careful and just realize there's probably a lot more personal attachment to some of the shopping habits than we realize, yeah, and a lot of that stuff is hard-coded and we can't talk people out of it.
Charles:We can't. Logically, you can't talk it out and again a lot of this hunting-gathering model that we have today and in most cases, let's be honest, she's probably doing the hunting and the gathering and you're just doing the hunting. From a financial aspect, most women also have a job and most women are doing 85% of the purchasing decisions. So really we've changed to a model where they're doing the hunting and the gathering and we're doing just the hunting, and our second job is criticizing their gathering. Yeah, that's doesn't feel like a risk for long-term success.
Dan:No, there's a reason probably why this divorce rate is so high is and people don't stay together as much. Yeah, it's probably. Yeah, I think that's an accurate statement.
Charles:Yeah, so keep that in mind. Definitely, don't find yourself in a position where you hate shopping but you're going along anyway and making both of you miserable. That's not. That shouldn't be seen as an option.
Dan:Um, that shouldn't be in any activity, even shop, and regardless of shop and anything in your life, if you're gonna go somewhere and you're about to learn how to enjoy it and right.
Charles:Can't learn how to enjoy it, then don't do it don't bring positive.
Dan:It don't bring negative energy to any situation if you can avoid it yeah, don't assume that all women love to shop.
Charles:Every woman is different. There's a good chance that she loves to shop and, if she does, try to encourage that and make it as pleasant for her as you can. But also you might not be with a woman who loves to shop and you might be a guy that loves to shop, so you might be making trips to the mall by yourself, and if so, then do that and have a good time and enjoy it as best you can and just realize that you're in a somewhat atypical, but not crazy weird situation.
Dan:Yeah, I think the point of this chapter is to realize there's deep ingrained differences in the way that we go about shopping in terms of men and women. I thought that was really important and I think just being aware of that has reduced at least my own levels of frustration. It's not like this has been a big thing for me. A big problem for me, like I said, is because I was going shopping with my mom as a kid for hours and hours at times, so it's not been that big of a deal for me. But just knowing that, being aware of that, makes it a little bit easier to properly prepare and support those types of activities.
Charles:Yeah, I did get some new insights from this chapter as well, and the thing I like maybe the thing I like the most is the insight of if you hate something and you can't train yourself to not be miserable at it, then just don't do it, because it's a very codependent, nice guy thing to just go along with something that you hate until eventually you build up resentment and you blow your top over doing feeling like you're being forced to do something you don't want to do.
Dan:It's okay. You're discovering something about yourself. You're discovering what you like and what you don't like and that's a big thing, for a lot of nice guys is not really knowing what you like or what you're feeling. What you're feeling. This is great information.
Charles:And. But like you said, though, if you're going to write off the experience of going shopping with your partner, you got to find some other things to connect over and tell her that you're making a conscious effort. Hey, listen, I'm never going to be the guy that likes going to the mall and spending hours just walking around brushing clothes that are hanging up and feeling their texture. I can't do this with you, but let's figure out something, some other things that we really do like setting time aside to do together, yeah, and connect in a similar way, if we can. Next chapter we're going to get into friendship and understanding women and friendship, and at the very end of chapter 12, we'll even cover what to do if she has guy friends, and how you recognize potential red flags about that, or how, when there's no red flags, you can just learn to be comfortable with that situation. So that's what we'll talk about next time.
Charles:Thanks very much, dan. It sounds good. See you later. Bye-bye. Thank you so much for sticking around for the entire episode, dan, and I certainly appreciate it again. Just a quick reminder if you want to check out all of our library of audio and video episodes, you can go to mindfullymasculinecom. As well as any information we decide is worth sharing. Thanks,
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