Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Forget Fairy Tales: The REAL Way to Make Love Last
Are you buying into the myth that love should just magically work? Forget fairy tales—real, lasting love takes effort, communication, and intention. In this episode, Charles and Dan break down the final chapter of The Man’s Guide to Women and uncover the science-backed secrets to making relationships last.
We dive into:
✅ The essential ingredient for a strong relationship: Trust
✅ Why conflict avoidance is ruining your connection
✅ The biggest myths about love (and how they set you up for failure)
✅ Small, daily habits to affair-proof your relationship
✅ The six-second kiss—does it really work?
🚀 Plus, we explore how relationship science can help men build better, more fulfilling partnerships. Whether you're in a relationship or looking for one, this episode is packed with practical, research-backed strategies to improve intimacy, communication, and connection.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
📖 The Man’s Guide to Women by John Gottman, Julie Gottman, Doug Abrams, & Rachel Carlton Abrams
📖 Dating Essentials for Men by Robert Glover (our next book review!)
📖 Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg | Atomic Habits by James Clear
🔗 More episodes & resources: MindfullyMasculine.com
Connect With Us!
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#Relationships #Love #Dating #MensPersonalGrowth #MindfullyMasculine
If you're not communicating what your needs are, you have no right to be mad at anybody else. I mean, yes, you've been with this person perhaps for years and years and years, and you feel like maybe they should know you and they should just understand what your needs are. But that's still a tall order. Even after many years, we can't read minds. Just yet, that feature in AI hasn't come out yet.
Dan:Welcome back to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. Okay, this is our last episode discussing the man's guide to women, and in this final episode, we will discuss trust and communication in relationships, managing emotional expression, expectations versus reality in relationships, maintaining connection in long-term relationships and understanding and supporting your partner, as well as some other topics. Please check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom, where you can find our full audio episodes, video episodes and any other news or info that we want to share. Thanks and enjoy. Good morning, charles. How are you? Hey, dan, I'm good. Thanks, how are you. I am doing.
Dan:Well, this is our second take of trying to get this episode recorded. Today. We had a little bit of technical challenges and then my internet died, and now all of that really interesting weather talk that we started out with is lost forever. I don't think we should even try to reproduce that it's. It would be. That would be folly. Um, okay, so let's dive into the final chapter of our book, the man's guide to women. Um, this is chapter 15, I believe it's called. Uh, loving a woman for a lifetime. Uh, let's see yep staying together loving a woman for a lifetime. Let's see Yep Staying together, loving a woman for a lifetime. So we start out this chapter with a really cool story about Albert Einstein, who was up to some pretty interesting things outside of the nuclear weapons development.
Charles:Yeah Well, sounds like he liked setting off bombs in his own life. He really does.
Dan:Yeah well, sounds like he liked setting off bombs in his own life Based on. He really does. So the chat starts with this cute little quote from him when you trip over love, it is easy to get up, but when you fall in love it is impossible to stand again. Oh, he must have been a really romantic guy, huh, mm guy, huh. Then it comes out that, uh, toward the end of his marriage. Uh, his wife's name was maleva, m-i-l-e-v-a. Maleva, I'm not sure how you pronounce that, I've not heard it before. Um, he, uh, toward the end of the marriage. As things, I guess, were already falling apart, he gave her a list that she needed to follow if she wanted to stick with him oh wait, was this a crossroads?
Charles:what was it? What was made nicely?
Dan:yeah, uh. You'll make sure that my clothes and laundry are kept in good order, that I received my three meals a day regularly in my room, that the bedroom and study are kept neat and that my desk is left for my use only. You will renounce all personal relations with me insofar as they are not completely necessary for social reasons. You will forgo me sitting at home with you or going out and traveling with you. So I'm not going to stick at home with you and I'm not going to go out with you. You'll not expect any intimacy from me, nor will you reproach me in any way. You'll stop talking to me if I request it and you'll leave my bedroom or study immediately without protest if I request it. You will undertake not to belittle me in front of our children through words or behavior. That's the same list I give my housekeeper. I don't see the problem here. You tell your housekeeper that she shouldn't expect any intimacy with you.
Charles:Exactly, I try, you know. I said I make sure everybody's on the same page, you know, make sure everything's crystal clear.
Dan:Yeah, so she obviously leaves him in a matter of months after he gives her that list. And you know, I'm just I'm tired of of deifying these intellectuals and you know, because he has a lot of cool little quotes about love and relationships and the nature of genius and all this stuff and it's like, okay, yeah, but you're also a crazy person who has no idea what it takes to salvage or maintain a relationship, and we should not forget that there's a difference between living in reality and you know this is basically poetry or prose that's never been actually executed by him and in the real world.
Charles:clearly, mains.
Dan:And and then, you know, try to try to watch elon musk dance or neil degrasse tyson tell a joke, and it's like, oh, that's right, you can just be really good at one thing and not at other things.
Dan:Yeah, so so he, uh the gotmans, used that story to bring us into the? Uh, the idea of what it takes to make a relationship last a lifetime, and what you have to do and what you should avoid doing if, uh, if, you want things to be successful and not just fall apart. And the first thing that, uh, they remind us of in this chapter is something that goes all the way back to the beginning of the book, which is how necessary it is for people to trust each other if they're going to be in a relationship together. When you talk to unhappy couples, what is it that they usually say is the problem with the relationship? Well, it's one or both of them that say you know, I just don't, I just can't count on the other person to be there for me when I'm going to need them the most. I don't know that they're going to show up the way that I need them to when the poop hits the fan.
Charles:You can't have any kind of relationship in that situation. You can't have an employee boss relationship, you can't have a friendship relationship, nevermind a romantic relationship, I think.
Dan:Yeah, no, absolutely yeah, we've. I mean, we've been doing the podcast for three years now and you know, if either of us were like, well, it's Wednesday morning, I wonder if Charles is going to jump on or if he's just going to blow it off. And I mean, and you've, you've been, you've been in a business partnership since what? 2005 or so, with, uh, with our friend Dick, and yeah, if, if you couldn't just count on him to do the stuff he says he's going to do when he's going to do it, then you know how can you entrust your, your present and your future to somebody you can't right right, and then I mean that's the thing is.
Charles:Then you can't focus on things you need to focus on. If you're worried about, you know, managing and doing the basics for somebody else, yeah, and so how, how can you, uh, or how does that trust break down?
Dan:Um, but one of the ways, one of the biggest ways that it breaks down is when one or both people basically adopt conflict avoidance as their primary strategy in the relationship. Meaning, I'm going to, you know, avoid rocking the boat at all costs and try to live my life in such a way that we never fight or never have disagreements. And, yeah, if you, if you adopt that as your, as your relationship strategy, then you're going to turn into an untrustworthy person.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, and I think that what that really kind of thing? I think that stems from people trying to avoid other people's emotions, and I mean, a lot of us have not, most of us have not been taught how to manage our own emotions, nevermind our own, plus somebody else's who aren't exactly happy emotions. So a lot of times it's, it's much easier to just not, you know, to avoid the conflict and, you know, create your teeth and hope for the best, and I think a lot of us operate that way, unfortunately.
Dan:And yeah, and especially, I mean I, I see this in myself, or at least I see this, this impulse in myself, and I think I see this in myself, or at least I see this impulse in myself and I think other men can probably relate to this as well where, if you adopt this mindset or this goal for yourself of I am completely emotion-free, I am just, I'm rational, I'm driven by logic, and you try to treat yourself that way and you try to show up in your relationships that way, then all these emotions that you're not letting out, they're going to boil over at some point.
Dan:And then you know it's really hard to argue that you're completely logic and rationality-based when you're punching holes in drywall because you're so frustrated with your life and all the things that you're refusing to acknowledge. Yep, so sure. Um, yeah, that is. That is definitely something to avoid, and so, as a result, you have to be honest and be willing to be honest with the people in your life to say, hey, this, uh, what fill in the blank, whatever it is, is a problem for me. I'm not feeling good about it, and I think we need to talk about it and then give people the chance and the opportunity to meet your needs or to tell you they're not going to meet your needs, and either of those is an improvement over you just keeping your needs to yourself and building up resentment and anger and jealousy and fill in the blank over over time that we all know is eventually going to boil over either either you having some sort of an emotional outburst or you looking outside of the relationship to have your needs met.
Charles:Yeah, yeah. And if you want to throw some logic in here, then you really should only be mad at yourself, because if you're not communicating what your needs are, you have no right to be mad at anybody else. I mean, yes, you've been with this person perhaps for years and years and years, and you feel like maybe they should know you and they should just understand what your needs are. But that's still a tall order, even after many years. You know we can't read minds just yet, that you know that feature in ai hasn't come out yet. So, um, yeah, I think you know. I think, really, if we're going to put some, like I said, some logic on this, you really need to turn, you know, the the finger at yourself and say, hey, you know you're the one to blame here.
Charles:You have no one to be mad at other than be frustrated with yourself that you didn't communicate when you should have communicated.
Dan:Yeah. And the thing is, if you are spending your time, I mean, you lose on it in two ways. Number one, by not being honest about what you need, you're not giving your partner the opportunity to meet those needs. And number two, you're also not revealing who you really are to your partner, so they're not going to feel as connected to you. And you know we all have that need, those needs for connection, whether it's physical connection, being being in proximity to other people, or emotional connection, sexual connection. We, we all want to feel those things in our relationships. And if, if we don't get them after long enough periods of time, then we find a way to get those needs met, whether that is with emotional or or physical affairs with other people.
Dan:And so you know, I think, I think part of the trap we can fall into is this idea, this sort of narrative that we've been sold by.
Dan:You know, whether it's Disney, fairy tales or romantic comedies, that you know, when you find the right person, you're not going to have to tell them what you need, what you need, they'll just know. And that is certainly not true and it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way, and that feeling of well, if I have to tell you what I need and you do it, then you're only meeting my needs because I told you. It's like, yeah, exactly, and that's okay, I'm still. You know, if you have a partner that's willing to meet your needs because you told them what your needs are, that's still loving you and that's still something that you should feel good about. But you know, if you've got problems in your own issues from history of other relationships or because of what you think love and romance is supposed to look like, based on culture, then yeah, you're gonna feel like, oh, but that's not enough. It's not enough for me to tell my partner what I need and then they meet the need, but but yeah, that's how slowly the work.
Charles:I got a question for you. I'd love to hear your feedback on this. One time a friend of a girl that I was dating at the time it was one of her close friends I had basically put special anniversaries and dates and things that related to our relationship on my calendar and I'd get a reminder. When she told her friend about it, she thought that was horrible, it was not romantic that. You know, I have these reminders and I should just, I guess, just memorize all the dates of all the different things and and because I had these calendar reminders, and because I had these calendar reminders, basically it took away from I guess how special anything was when we would celebrate them.
Dan:Curious to hear what you have to say about that. I think you know what I have to say about that. That's ridiculous.
Charles:I mean, that's a very childlike view of the world and of relationships, and I mean really's it's silly, but, but I think it plays into that whole romanticized fantasy land that we are inundated with with, you know, romantic comedies and, and you know, disney, princesses and this, this magical, unbelievable standard for, for this pretty charming I guess, I don't know. I would love to hear some feedback from some ladies to hear hey, it's, you know, is this, is this a common point of view or was this a one-off?
Dan:yeah, well, ask your girlfriend, I'll ask mine and we'll see what they say. Yeah, uh, yeah, it is. It is quite ridiculous to I mean, listen, I, I wouldn't even know what the date was of today's. I wouldn't know today's date if I didn't look on a calendar, so much less know that today is also, you know, the anniversary of our first date. Like, yeah, if it's not for for the calendar telling me that today is wednesday, january 22nd, I would have no idea it is. And then to go a second step and know, oh, not only is it the 22nd, but it's the fourth month anniversary of our first date. That's, that's ridiculous.
Charles:Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be that granular, so to to not totally blow this person out of the water Not to straw, man them.
Charles:Yeah, I would say there was probably like more significant dates, like a year anniversary, what that day was, because we do remember like important people's birthdays in our lives usually. So you know, that being said, I think it was more, not a, you know, three and a half week anniversary, that it was a little bit more significant dates, I mean, and I had like, above and beyond there, you know, some more granular dates, but everything was on the calendar.
Dan:Okay, so I'm going to let me let me jump on the other side of the argument for a second. And yeah, there's, there's a bit that Jimmy Kimmel does on his show where he'll go out on the street and meet, like a tourist who's visiting Hollywood, who's there with their son or their daughter, and then they'll ask the dad questions that I believe they should definitely know the answer to and they don't. So it's like, yeah, if if you need a Google reminder on your calendar to tell you that it's your son or daughter's birthday, then yeah, or even your partner's birthday, then okay. Yes, I would say to your point there there's a line between what you should know and what you should not know. And you know, I would say, your partner's birthday, and you know.
Dan:However, obviously, if it's your wedding anniversary, you should know that. If it's still the anniversary, if you're not married, and it's the anniversary of your first date, then yeah, I'd say you probably should know that too, and your kids' birthdays. But beyond that, I think it is a little ridiculous. I think you should know. I agree with that. Define the big ones, I guess, is what's up for debate, and I would limit it to wedding anniversary, anniversary of either your first date or the first time you define yourselves as a couple, and then kids' birthdays and that's pretty much it.
Charles:So here's a question I'm going to throw it out here. Do you know your girlfriend's phone number?
Dan:Have you memorized?
Charles:No, certainly not, friend's phone number have you memorized? Uh, no, sir, I have not, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say I and I have not for mine so I barely I don't know.
Dan:I mean, yeah, your phone number, rob's phone number, renata's phone number? I don't know any of them off the top. I don't know. Yeah, no, I have to look them up in my phone. Yeah, that's, that's a little crazy these days. Whose numbers do you know?
Charles:So the ones where they've been around for so many years. It was before we were constantly had the matter of fingertips. So, like I know, I still remember my phone numbers as a kid. For the house line, yeah, I do need a sister's cell phone number, but, you know, I know my dad's home number, but I don't know his cell phone number. So, yeah, yeah, I think honestly, and I know my number.
Dan:Yeah, I know my own numbers too, but that's pretty much. That's pretty much it as far as phone numbers go, I you know it's not like it was before where, even if you just had a number stored in your cell phone, well, if that phone didn't boot up one day and it turned into a paperweight, then all your numbers were just gone. So for that reason it made sense to keep an address book as well. But we're moving past those days. If one cell phone dies, then it's all you know in iCloud, so it doesn't much matter. But, right, yeah, I, and I really think you know again, except for those really important dates, the more stuff that you can outsource from your brain onto other places to keep track of data, the more, the more memory you got in your brain for other stuff. So, um, I'm in favor of that, but yeah, I guess, I guess it really comes down to each couple deciding okay, here are the things that are important and here are the things that you know it's okay to not have memorized. But yeah, when I, when I hear stories of dads who don't know their kids' birthdays, who don't know what grade their kids are in, um, stuff like that, I I think that's a little ridiculous, like if you're outsourcing that much to, oh, my wife will just keep it in her brain, so I don't need to. Yeah, I could see that as being a source of, uh, resentment and I would probably feel the same way.
Dan:All right, so we get a nice little list of how to affair proof your relationship and some things that you can integrate into your schedule and as well as your relationship practice that will make it a little less likely that your partner's needs are going unmet for so long that they start looking to other sources. The first one is the six second kiss. Is that something that you're currently practicing? It is. Is it really? Is it the Gottman's, or because that's just what you do? No, because of this book, because of his book.
Charles:It's not like, yeah, I didn't write this book. I did clothes on my own. Yeah, I steal stuff. No, yeah, absolutely, and it works, and I feel I'll be more connected when I do it. Okay, how long have you been doing it? Probably since the first time I heard that that was actually. You recommended this book to me a while ago. I remember I went through it. Yeah, probably almost a year ago.
Dan:So, um, as soon as I heard that I, I was like that's a great idea and yeah, so I mean they, they say it works as long as it's you're already, as long as I don't have to yeah yeah.
Charles:Yeah, it works as long as I'm not a bad breath, or. What's interesting is, guys, here's something to think about. I'm just bringing this up because I was feeling a little insecure about it, because I was like she doesn't want to kiss me and I'm like I just put a mint in my mouth. I know I've got good breath. I'm like now my brain is spinning and thinking, oh, maybe there's something wrong. No, no, no, no. She thought she had bad breath. She did. Oh good, she thought she did. So it was less than the six seconds that I was going for. So just keep in mind, it's not all about you. There could be other things going on, right?
Dan:Yeah, and another thing that I think might be a good idea is, if you're not all that physically affectionate outside of the bedroom, you need to make it clear that, uh, you're not trying to initiate sex just because you're giving the six second kiss, hello or goodbye.
Charles:well, that's a good point uh, because absolutely yeah, if that's not part of your standard routine.
Dan:Right, Sure Now. Do you generally do open mouth or closed mouth?
Charles:Oh, I do it all, baby.
Dan:Because I'm just thinking, you know if you're saying good, you know if you guys have met up at a restaurant after work where you've met in the parking lot, you know, maybe an open mouth kiss in the parking lot is not the way to go.
Charles:Well, the thing is it's I don't know, I I feel weird. Me personally feel I feel weird if it's a closed mouth kiss for more than like I honestly, you know, with a girlfriend it's it's not going to ever be a closed mouth kiss, unless it's like a kiss on the cheek or something, I't know. Okay, fair enough, I just yeah, I don't know, open mouth it'd be so awkward for me to stand there for six seconds with a closed mouth how about this question then full tongue or no tongue?
Charles:it gets involved. It gets involved when necessary.
Dan:I read the room it's just, you're the only one of us doing. You're the only one of us doing this right now.
Charles:I say the expert yeah, listen, it's not something where somebody's gonna walk by and go oh my god, you two get a room.
Dan:It's not like, it's not over the top, like that well, I'm not currently doing this, but I will, uh, I will. I will try to add it to my, uh, my repertoire and see, uh, um, I'm, yeah, my girlfriend likes kissing, so I'm sure she'll, she'll be down, yeah, definitely, um, okay. Second one is date her. Just because you now, uh, live together or spend a lot of time together, um, you're not off the hook for going on dates and, uh, I, I am a fan of a schedule of you know, one date night a week, one night away from home a month and one vacation a year at a minimum. If, uh, if you can't afford it, I get it, but try to figure out ways to to afford it. You know, go on, go on Priceline, get a, get a cheap hotel room, even just the next town over, and try to try to get away once a month from, you know, the, the housework and the kids that spend some time away and it feels, it feels more, more, more romantic when you're, when you're getting away from uh, from home.
Dan:Oh absolutely yeah.
Charles:The excitement of seeing new things definitely triggers different hormonal releases in our brain. I think so Dopamine, I'm sure it's released as well, and and some sort of adrenaline, and you know that that level of excitement, you know, raises our, our energy levels, in our state, and and that definitely um can be a foundation of of a romantic connection at that point too.
Dan:Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay, he does. Uh, the Gottmans have a book called uh 10 dates conversations that lead to a lifetime of love, which was written by the same four people that wrote the Man's Guide to Women. So if you'd like to we're not going to be discussing that book next but if you'd like to keep your Gottman education going, that might be a good way to do that I may go ahead and get it from. I was telling you the other day I've got just a crap ton of audible credits that I've not gone through, so that might be a good one to add to my own queue as well.
Charles:Yeah, I didn't realize that if you've got a Spotify premium membership, it includes a lot of Audible books or audio books. I shouldn't say Audible books, but audio books. Okay, I don't know if any of the Gottman stuff is on there, but just wanted to mention that in case anybody's listening and didn't realize stuff is on there. But just wanted to mention that in case anybody's listening then didn't realize, cause I only listened to Spotify for the music and somebody was like oh you know, you can get it for you know this book for free, you know on versus paying for an audible subscription.
Dan:So yeah, I wish, I wish YouTube music had, uh, had something like that, Cause I've been paying for YouTube premium for years and, uh, you know, so far what I get is no commercials on my YouTube videos and a lot of mockery from people younger than me that I have YouTube music instead of Spotify. But that's OK, I don't mind. I don't mind mockery when, when I'm getting what I need and I watch so many YouTube videos that if I, if I, had to sit through commercials, I would kill myself. It's the worst. Yeah, ok.
Dan:So the next, next point get to know her um and uh, he reminds us. You know how, when we got into our relationship, we would always have, uh, you know, these long conversations with our partner and how much we probably enjoyed those long conversations. And you know, in any relationship when, when you get used to someone and you get used to your situation, it can be easy to just go on cruise control and and stop, because, look when, when those hormones wear off, it's very easy to not do the same things you did back when you were high on high on drugs and when there, you know, was when the novelty was high and everything felt new, it was easy to do things that may not feel as new and exciting when you're six months or six years or six decades into a relationship. So he recommends doing things like asking open-ended questions. Um, there are plenty of really cool couples games, either available on your phone or available as card games, where you can sort of get into it with your partner of hey, let's ask some thought-provoking questions of each other to get to know each other even better than we already do, and I certainly recommend doing that.
Dan:Having those interesting conversations about what people's values and hopes and dreams are will definitely help you feel closer. Feel closer to somebody. Um, appreciate her, compliment her, thank her, admire her, use your words and your actions to show her how much you know, you love and value her. That's a certainly great advice and uh, we'll, we'll help build that uh bank of positive feelings so that when, when trouble comes, you know, know you're not just wanting to cut and run. Neither of you are wanting to cut and run because, oh, life's hard now and I didn't sign up for that. Uh, honor her dreams, you know. Figure out what she's into, what she sees as being a good future and a good life together. Uh, is there, you know? Is it? Marriage, family, kids is it a career? Is it traveling to a place? I mean, just find out like, hey, if, if time, money and effort were infinite, how would you be spending your days? And then you know, try to recreate some of that in her life, and hopefully she's looking to recreate that in yours as well.
Charles:Yeah, that's great.
Dan:Another reminder that the two complaints that most women have about men are he's never there for me and there isn't enough intimacy and connection.
Dan:And on the other side, the complaints that men had about relationships and about their partners was we don't have sex enough and we fight too much.
Dan:And so just be aware that to keep those from getting out of control, you got to put work in, and you know we we talk about that on this show all the time that you know it's not complicated to be in good shape or rich or have a good relationship with your partner. It's fairly simple, but that doesn't make it easy, and so you know you can. You can either rely on your day-to-day motivation for getting those things done or you can try to put in systems where it happens almost automatically, because you're just used to living your life that way and I would say yeah, yeah, when it comes to your relationship. Take some of these things like um, appreciating her, dating her, giving her that six second kiss when you say hello or goodbye, and figure out a way to systematize it so that it it's easy and it happens automatically because, again, if you, if you only do the right thing when you feel like doing the right thing. You're going to have a whole life of not doing the right thing.
Charles:Yeah, um, the the way to systematize it is to just keep practicing it. That's it, just doing it, and eventually it just gets easier and easier and easier and becomes part of who you are, and then that's just how you interact and how you maintain yourself when you are in a relationship. Same way, you have a certain way of doing things and thinking and working in a job. Right, it's just because you've done the same thing typically for over and over and over again. And so be aware of the actions that you're going to take and the interactions you're going to have and how you're going to handle a romantic relationship. You're showing up the way you want to show up and practice those things.
Charles:And, yeah, sometimes coming up with questions, open-ended questions, might not be something you normally do and it sounds like, oh my God, it's a pain. Where am I going to get this information? I'm going to schedule time to do this. I don't have any time. When are we going to do this? Doesn't sound like that much fun, but you got to push past that a little bit. Do it a few times and you'll surprise yourself and look for going in, go into it, looking for ways to enjoy it, and then the next time you do it it's going to be a little bit easier because you've already done it and you you know that you're going to enjoy it in certain ways and obviously keep an eye and make sure that your partner enjoys it too. But the more you do it, the easier it's going to be and the more enjoyment you'll get out of it.
Dan:And less work is great, and it can be something as easy as hey.
Dan:Before we start the next episode of this TV show we're watching, let me pull up this app on my phone.
Dan:That's gonna, you know, ask us both a question that we can answer for each other.
Dan:And you know, yeah, if you want to, uh, I agree with you that you know the way you get better at stuff like this is by practicing it and doing it all the time, and fortunately, there are things available like apps that can help remind you to do stuff like this, and there's also books like Tiny Habits and Atomic Habits, where it's like okay, here's how I can tie this thing that I want to start doing with this other thing that I already do. Just make it easy on yourself, because, yeah, no, very few people, you know, start wake up tomorrow and say I want to be a marathon runner, so I'm going to go out and put in my 26 miles, starting tomorrow, and it just change doesn't happen that way. It happens with, you know, doing what's what's something I could start doing tomorrow that I didn't do today. That is going to both be manageable and make me feel like I'm moving in the right direction, and so go back to our series on tiny habits, and we'll share all those with you.
Charles:Yeah, string along those little green checkboxes and those wins so that you feel good about doing it. Feel good about doing it and make it so easy that you need to struggle to do them, but just keep them consistently, keep racking them up, because that's going to build up your those good feelings and it's going to motivate you to do more. So don't and again, you know, this time of year everybody's kind of quitting their new year's resolutions, I feel at this point. So a lot of people I'm seeing are going so hard right out of the gate because they ate or or you know, we're negligent for like the last month of of 2024, and they feel guilty and they feel like, oh, my God, I got it, I need to make up for lost time. And they just go too hard with everything, whatever. That is too extreme and that's not sustainable.
Charles:And then you're going to feel bad about yourself when you fail, but you're setting yourself up for failure because you're going from negative five to a hundred instead of negative five to two or three. So, just kind of, and it's hard because, listen, I'm guilty of that too, absolutely, with so many things and there's so many times where I'm I'm never going. Oh, I need to make this harder, right, I'm always like. I'm always like. You know. I when, when I'm I'm doing something, it's like a lot of times like you know what. I really should be making this easier so I get this done and I can continue to do this in a consistent way, but my brain immediately goes to it's not enough.
Dan:Yeah, and it's interesting, one of our favorite fitness guys that we listen to on YouTube is Mike Isretel. That Dr Mike Isretel and, uh, he did Dr Mike Isretel, please Sorry, dr Mike is. Yeah, he didn't spend all that time in medical school for people to just call him Mike, I suppose. Um, he did bring up in one of his videos the challenge of trying to go too slowly, which I was like this is interesting, I can't hold anybody. I can't believe anybody does that. Where he was like yeah, if you, if you're trying to lose weight and you decide I'm going to try to lose five pounds a week, yeah, you're going to crash and burn because you can't do that sustainably.
Dan:Um, you know, unless you're, unless you have a ton to lose, but eventually you're going to get to the point where I can't lose five pounds a week anymore and and I would say only that's only a healthy thing if you are like three or more times the weight you should be is, is losing five pounds a week a good idea. But he also said if you go down to I'm gonna try to lose a quarter pound a week, that's not going to be sustainable either, because after a few weeks of a quarter pound. You're going to look at the scale and the calendar and feel like I'm not doing anything, this isn't working, and but it was just so. It was so novel to me because it's like I would never do that. That would never be my problem. I would never.
Charles:I would never come up with a plan to go too slowly, yeah, and I don't think many people would, though I'll be honest with you.
Dan:I think you know everybody wants yesterday, right, but I could see if you've tried and failed too many times that go big or go home, you might swing to that other extreme. Yeah, okay, and then, and then just figure out a new way to lose it.
Charles:You're at meeting your goals. Yeah, I can't say I've ever done that, or well, maybe I have and I just it was so shortly that I forgot about it. But I think, yeah, it's demotivating because you're not seeing any progress. And so you define that healthy balance of where you feel like you're making progress and that's where you kind of need to look at, even if it's less weight than you want a week. But you have to look at hey, I'm consistent.
Charles:You need to also get some sort of motivation and gratification out of the hey, I've been consistent, I've been doing this program and been and been able to check off the these wins for six weeks now. Right, and I've did it. I've done it every week for six weeks and that's right. I feel good about that. And for me, that was actually part of like that 75 heart piece of that was just the length of time. I had never stuck to one program or doing one. I mean, I dabble in all these different little productivity tools and morning routines and habits and stuff like that, but they've always changed after like two or three weeks.
Dan:I've never focused on needing to do it for such a long time and saying, okay, that's part of my win is being able to do that for every single day for 75 days yeah, it's funny we we had that conversation before you started, where I I remember telling you, like dan, I think the hardest part for you is going to be picking a diet for the next 75 days and not finding a better diet three weeks in that you like better.
Charles:And part of it, but it wasn't even just that, but also reading 10 pages. I mean, I enjoy that whenever, but again I would let it go. I'd be like, oh, I you know, I'm busy today, or I missed my window in the morning when I normally do it, so it was just easy to just go. Nah, I'll just do tomorrow, but there's something to be said for that. But you're forcing yourself to do that.
Dan:I forget. And so, taking this back to your relationship, it's like, yeah, don't try to do all these things at once. Where you're like I'm going to fix every single one of these issues, I'm going to start the six second kiss. I'm going to start the weekly date night, I'm going to start the you know, let's have these open-ended question conversations. I mean, yeah, some of these are not that big, so it's, it's not going to be hard to do two of them maybe.
Dan:But yeah, if you, if you try to, if you hit the realization of, okay, my relationship has a lot of problems, so, starting tomorrow, I'm going to fix all those problems, that's, that's not going to be sustainable. And your partner you're probably in a different place with trying to open up the hood and fix some of these things than your partner is and you kind of need some level of buy-in from your partner on this stuff too, where you can't just decide, hey, I'm going to fix our troubled relationship tomorrow and she better be on board, or else, well, that's, that's just another trouble that you're introducing into the relationship in this case, what you're talking about is absolutely true.
Charles:You have a much bigger role in terms of the other person. Have is a much bigger role in terms of any of the, these new routines, these new things that you're trying to do, whereas the stuff that we're talking about, you know, diet, diet or reading or whatever that's that's mostly on you, and I mean so, I think, also communicating what you're trying to do, because you know, if you're not used to giving a six second kiss, you might need to communicate that it might come across a little bit weird to the, to your partner, or you know some of the, some of these other things that you're doing or kind of bringing up, especially if you're kind of ingrained in routines for many years and certain you know, certain things are just that's just not something that you do. It could raise some sort of suspicion or whatever. So don't be afraid to communicate what you're trying to do here.
Dan:You know, no, I think you definitely should have that communication and say, hey, I read this book. It's got some recommendations and we can all start the six second kiss tomorrow or today. And uh, yeah, just give your partner a heads up Like, hey, this really smart guy who has a podcast, no, this really smart guy who wrote a book says that you know the. The evidence is there that this is a good thing that we should do, and I'd like to start doing it right now. So go ahead and do that then, yeah, and uh, yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to tell my girlfriend, um, next time I see her that we're we're going to kiss for six seconds at hello and goodbye and we'll uh, we'll try to remember to do that.
Charles:Do you ever forget?
Charles:Oh, sure, all the time, okay, oh yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm, I'm definitely not doing, you know, but when I remember, I, you know, I, I try, and there's, you know, like I said, there's other times where, like in the morning, you know, when we're both of us even like have a brush or teeth or whatever it's, it's a different kind of kiss, right, it's like.
Charles:And then, uh, yeah, so the other thing to kind of keep in mind here is, if you were to bring this up to your partner, I could see certain situations where they think everything is good and they're happy and like, well, why are you reading this book? Like, is there something wrong, you know, with our relationship? And that could be a little bit of an, you know, an awkward conversation, and if I was in that position, I would say something like, uh, no, things are good, but they could always be better, and I don't want to us to lose the fire that we have between us. And and, uh, you know, I want to, I want to do as much as I can to support us and the relationship. And and so, you know this, this book really had some really cool ideas and you know, know I.
Dan:I want to try some of them and invite her to read it too yeah, I think that, uh, most women are open, more open to the idea of. You know, hey, I I read this book by this smart guy and I just I'm just down to make things even better than they are. Oh, that's a win right there. I think guys may feel a little bit more challenged and a little bit more defensive in the face of that conversation than most women in my experience. I agree, yep, but yeah, I think you know the because you know, men don't seem to be very incentivized to think about or talk about relationships as much as women are. In our culture, which that's an interesting point that Robert Glover brings up, you know we have this sort of expectation that women are better at relationships than men. But what it really is is women are just more encouraged to think about and talk about relationships than men, and so it seems like, because they think about it and talk about it more, they may or may not be better at it. Because they think about it and talk about it more, they may or may not be better at it, but generally speaking, when you find yourself in a relationship with someone, they're going to have usually a similar level of relationship skill and competence that you do. They're not going to be way better or way worse at relationships, because if they were, they wouldn't be in a relationship with you, I think.
Dan:People on the same level of relationship skills and mental health or mental illness, they seem to find each other. And so, um, yeah, your, your partner, may talk about relationships more. She may read about relationships more. She may, you know, have have more experience with relationship terminology. But the actual skills of being good at a relationship, they may or may not be there and they may or may not be higher or lower than yours. So, um, but the good news is, as men going to women to say, hey, I want to, I want to make things even better, it's a little easier for us to bring up that conversation than it usually is for women to bring up that conversation.
Charles:Yeah, that's a good point.
Dan:That's a good point. If my partner brought up you know, hey, I read this book about relationships and I think we should change some things I would definitely have a defensive Whoa, wait a second, what are you? What are you trying to tell me here? Yeah, there, I think. I think women are less likely to have that reaction.
Charles:That's a fair point.
Dan:So, all right, that is going to be the end of our time on the Man's Guide to Women by the Gottmans.
Dan:For our next trick, we are going to visit another one of the books that I put on my Mount Rushmore of relationship books for men, which is Dating Essentials for men by Robert Glover, and, uh, we are only going to do part one of that book, where part one really focuses more on a man's relationship to himself and the ideas that he has about himself, about the world, about women, about dating, and we're going to do the first half.
Dan:Then we're going to take a break and do another book and then, at some point in the future, we're going to come back and talk about the second half of that book and get into a little bit more of the sort of the action steps, the tactics of being a good dater, the tactics of, uh, being a good dater, and so hopefully, uh, our audience will find value in that, because we, we enjoy, we enjoy Dr Glover's work and, uh, again, it's, it's not perfect, it's not wise no one, why has nobody told me this before by Dr Julie, but it's good, and so we'll, uh, we'll mention the points where we diverge with Dr Glover. But there's not many of them in dating essentials for men, particularly not in the first half yo, I'm excited for it.
Dan:He's got a lot of good insight you got any final thoughts on, uh, the man's guide to women? I, I can't. I can't think of a man I know that wouldn't benefit from reading this book um, no, I mean, yes, I do.
Charles:I guess, uh, I was really impressed with the, the level of details most of the time that they went into with with most of the chapters.
Charles:I know there's a couple where we were like, yeah, you're kind of getting lazy here, but uh, the, you know, it's definitely made me interested to read more of some of the gotman's work and just knowing that they spent so much time and energy and research in terms of relationships where they were able to observe so many couples, like thousands and thousands of couples, in their, in their love lab right where they basically monitored them, you know, right, and you know, in enclosed in, you know, in their, in their, uh, in their captive environment or in their, in their houses or their apartments and we're able to see their body interactions and their conversations and just having that amount of insight to what everybody and so many people and how they behave and react.
Charles:I think a lot of great insights come out of that, and so I'm excited to read more of what they've written based on that research, what they've pulled out of that, just to better understand people myself, others and the relationships, and every time I've done that and I've gleaned something that has made my life easier or happier. So, yeah, I really I like their stuff.
Dan:Yeah, their, their evidence-based approach really does appeal to me, where they, you know, they analyze people, they talk to people, they do surveys, they, they collect data and then they report on it, which, you know, feels a lot better than just hey. You know, during my career as a counselor, I sat in the office and I kind of noticed blah, blah, blah. It's like no, it's more like we can predict with a 96% level of certainty which couples are going to last and which ones aren't. That's the kind of stuff that really appeals to me. So I'm definitely open to doing another one of their books in the future, for sure, cool, all right, thanks, dan.
Dan:We will stop there for today, and next time we'll be back with dating essentials for men by dr robert glover. Sounds good, sir. All right, take care bye-bye. Thank you so much for choosing to listen to our entire episode from start to finish, dan, and I certainly it. You can check us out on mindfullymasculinecom, our website, where you'll find full video episodes, audio episodes and any other information or resources we decide are worth sharing. Thanks.
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