The Trap of the Trophy Girlfriend

In this thoughtful and engaging episode, Charles and Dan explore Chapter 8 of Dating Essentials for Men by Dr. Robert Glover, which takes aim at the common male fantasy of dating a "hot woman." Together, they unpack the psychological traps of prioritizing physical appearance over true compatibility and emotional connection.

The conversation dives into:

• What "hot" really means in Glover's context—and why it often translates to "vain"
• The danger of pedestalizing someone based on looks alone
• Real-life stories about relationships with high-status partners and what actually makes a relationship fulfilling
• How insecurity and over-investment can sabotage connection
• The difference between approach and attraction
• Why building a life you genuinely enjoy is the best way to attract the right partner

Charles and Dan also share personal stories about car shopping 🚗, confidence shifts post-divorce, and the power of living a fun, fulfilling life to naturally attract the right people.

Key Takeaways:

• Status-based dating can lead to imbalance and insecurity
• Authentic attraction is built on mutual interest, not cold approaches
• Shared values and emotional connection matter more than surface-level traits
• A life you love is more magnetic than one designed to impress

Next Episode:
Tune in next week as Charles and Dan continue their review of Dating Essentials for Men with Chapter 9: Create a Lifestyle That Attracts Women Naturally. They'll explore what it means to build a life that aligns with your values and passions—and how that naturally draws others to you.

Chapters

• 0:00 The Hot Woman Trap & Some Updates
• 9:00 Status-Driven Dating Downsides
• 18:15 Self-Worth in Relationship Dynamics
• 27:20 Approach vs. Attraction: A Key Distinction
• 36:30 Building an Attractive Lifestyle
• 40:00 Final Thoughts on Meaningful Dating

Transcript

Charles: 0:00

If your criteria for meeting a long-term partner especially is just how attractive they are, okay, well then, how good of a partner will either going to decide, okay, well, she's beautiful, but she's not right for these other reasons, and then you're going to have to break up and that's going to be rough on both of you. It's better to really figure out what it is that you want, how long you want it for, and make decisions that line up with those goals. Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles.

Charles: 0:42

In this episode, Dan and I will continue discussing Part 1 of Dating Essentials for Men by Dr Robert Glover. We're going to hit Chapter 8, where Dr Glover gives reasons not to date hot women, as he defines them. So we will talk about understanding the hot woman myth, the trap of status-driven dating, self-worth and relationship power dynamics, attraction versus approach, the Trap of Status-Driven Dating, self-worth and Relationship Power Dynamics, attraction vs Approach, and we'll talk about building an attractive life, not just a pickup strategy. Check out our website, mindfullymasculinecom, where you can find full audio and video episodes, as well as any other info we find worth sharing. Enjoy the show.

Dan: 1:22

Good morning Charles. How are you, man, I'm doing all right.

Charles: 1:24

How are you man? I'm doing all right. How are you?

Dan: 1:26

I'm doing well. I like that artwork behind you there. I think that's the first time I've seen that?

Charles: 1:33

Yeah, I can't remember if I've done an episode from my camper since I hung that up. It's a nice little. Is that a collage? No, it's a maybe it's a collage. I don't know a collage. No, it's a. Maybe it's a collage. I don't know. It's not a mosaic, but it's yeah. Six, six pieces of cutouts by Henri Matisse, who's one of my favorite artists. Oh nice, not originals, just prints.

Dan: 1:54

Oh, they're not the originals. You didn't shrink down six of them and put them in there. Oh, that's good. It's good to know you destroy a part of history, yeah.

Charles: 2:03

I didn't. I didn't buy the originals and then wet them and then put them in the dryer to shrink them and then put them on my wall in my, in my RV.

Dan: 2:12

Oh, you just do that in my clothes.

Charles: 2:13

Exactly so. It's been been a week I had to get rid of my my, my lovely little Z3 convertible that I enjoyed so much for a year and a half, turned out needed some things to get fixed and I had to do the math to decide whether it was worth fixing them or not, and it was not not even close.

Dan: 2:37

So you just sent them up to a farm in New York.

Charles: 2:40

I thought about that. I thought about that exactly. Upstate, new York, yes, as I got rid of it. Yeah, where where parents tell their kids that the that the family dog had to go. Yeah, I really did think about that exact word, imagery as I was getting rid of it, like gotta, gotta send it upstate.

Charles: 2:58

So you didn't tell me how that all went down, so you took it to CarMax or what'd you do get a carmax and the one of the issues I had with it was a coolant leak and it was smoking like a cheech and chong movie as I pulled up the carmax. So I was like this, this isn't, this isn't going to be good for the, for the price that they offer me. But here I am, the last yeah. And so, yeah, I got I. I got. It was in the hundreds what I got for it, not in the thousands. But you know it's a 27 year old car, 200,000 miles and essentially on fire, so I was happy to take whatever they were willing to give me for it.

Dan: 3:38

Yeah. And so then I mean I know, yeah, you had the rental car, and then how did you make it over to the dealership, like what you know went down to that.

Charles: 3:48

Before I drove to, I told you there's a. I found a dealership. I decided what kind of car I wanted. I was looking for a Volkswagen Eos, a hard top convertible and I'd found a dealership over in the Largo area, which is near Clearwater here by Tampa, and they specialize in those. And I thought, okay, well, I'm going to drive all the way over to Largo, find whatever they have at this place and take the best option that they have available and then figure out how to get the rental car back to Orlando's airport and then get a bus, train, horse-drawnrawn carriage, whatever I had to do to get back to the tampa area.

Charles: 4:29

But you didn't take your helicopter. No range, yeah, maybe I should. Maybe I should get into those little individual helicopters like like bond used in thunderball uh, the probably cheaper to to run than 27 year old cars. But but anyway, before I left town, I was like you know what, let me open up Facebook marketplace and see if there may be something in Orlando that that fits the bill before I engage in this insane cross state travel. And yeah, I found one right close to the airport. So I was like, oh, that's good, if it works out, I could just buy it there, then drive the rental car back to the airport and Uber to pick up my car and then drive it back to your place, and that's exactly what happened I that's awesome found a pretty good deal needed car, got a couple little things.

Charles: 5:15

I mean any. Any car I buy, as old as I like to buy, is going to need a new radio. It's going to need little bells and whistles and yeah, but the the guys willing to negotiate I made a list of all the things that was going to take to get it road ready or not really road ready. It was already road ready to get it to my level of comfort that I require. And I said, all right, I I'm going to have to spend a thousand dollars on this, so I'll give you a thousand less than you're asking. And he was like, okay, and then we did it Nice.

Dan: 5:46

Any idea how long you had for sale for?

Charles: 5:49

13 days. Oh, wow, okay All right, so that's great that he was so so flexible, so quickly.

Charles: 5:55

Yeah, while he was selling it his, his wife was getting to drive it back and forth to work. So she I don't know how happy she was that it was selling, but that's a problem, not mine. You mean that's his problem? Yeah, that's their problem, not my problem. Exactly, exactly. Well, that's great. New radio got delivered last night by Amazon. I'm still waiting on a couple of the accessories and then the plan is tonight after work, when I get home, I'm going to pop out the old factory radio and put in the new Apple CarPlay 7-inch screen situation. Because that's, I mean, that's the first thing I do. Whenever I get a new used car, the first thing I do is put in a decent radio. Yeah, very nice. Going to do that tonight.

Charles: 6:40

And drove with the top down quite a bit yesterday. Stopped, I decided to treat myself to a shake shack lunch on the way out of orlando. Haven't been there in months and months and so I stopped and got a burger and, yeah, it's, it's fun having. Uh, I I had an issue with my old car for a while where one of the power window on the passenger side wouldn't go down and so I would not ride with the top down with a window stuck up. That looks insane so I wasn't willing to do that. But no such problem anymore with the new one. So I'm driving with the top down quite a bit, I mean. The other thing I really like is the sound system in my z3 was never really capable of making the podcast or the music I was listening to loud enough where I could actually hear and enjoy it while the top was down. But this new one's got it's got speakers all over the place and they're pretty loud, so I can I can ride at the top down and listen to music.

Dan: 7:36

Yeah, it's a big difference.

Charles: 7:38

Yeah, definitely so. Anyway, Great Congratulations. Thanks, I got some. I got a lot of travel coming up in the month of March. We're recording this on February 27th and I've got at least one road trip up to the Atlanta area and I'll enjoy making that with the new wheels. It's also nice to. I've got a car that's 11 years newer and 105,000 miles newer, so I can drive with much more confidence than than the last one. Yeah, but I would say so I still.

Charles: 8:09

I still am pretty addicted to this idea of buying fun, cheap cars for cash, not having to have a monthly payment and then driving it for a few years, and then, when it gives up the ghost, then I have. I have a stressful three days every couple of years to find a new car, but the rest of the time is great. I don't have to worry about high insurance or car payments or debt on a car or anything like that, and I get to drive something that's fun.

Dan: 8:35

Hey, most of us have stressful few days every week, so every couple of years? No, no problem, sign me up.

Charles: 8:45

There you go. Yeah, I'll, I'll take that plan as long as I can. All right, so let's get into chapter eight in dating essentials for men. Here's where Dr Glover lists out the many, many reasons why we should not pursue what he defines as hot women, and I think we alluded to this at the end of the last episode, where and I think we alluded to this at the end of the last episode where the word hot has a lot of a lot of baggage, a lot of connotation, you say you sit down 10 guys and say tell me what makes a hot woman. You'll get 10 different answers, basically, so that that's included with what Dr Glover is calling a hot woman. I think I mentioned last week that I thought when he says hot, what he really means is vain.

Dan: 9:29

Yeah.

Charles: 9:29

But really, I mean, I think what he's really talking about is a woman whose physical beauty or physical appearance makes her an outlier in a way that she feels the need to treat her own appearance quite differently than most women, and the men she encounters also find it necessary to treat her differently than they would treat most women.

Dan: 9:53

And she allows that to happen. That's, I think, the key here too, like what you said her being vain, because you can still be really care about your appearance, but then have a lot of other wonderful qualities that are still going on and that you focus on, and it's not like you don't let the looks take the driver's seat here in terms of your day-to-day life and your interaction.

Charles: 10:18

So I think what you had said is very accurate here in terms of somebody who's vain on top of having an outlier of of looks, so to speak yeah, I think, I think, really what he's, what he's alluding to, is someone who is, yeah, really investing time, effort, money in remaining at this very high level of physical appearance because of what they feel that it brings them.

Charles: 10:51

And so if, if, if they're really, if they're really investing heavily in maintaining I've, I've got to be a top 10%, top 5% woman when it comes to physical appearance. That that is a choice and that is a life that, you know, many attractive women do choose for themselves, but I can't imagine that being around it is is a lot of fun. I I've never dated a woman that, when he goes down the list of what makes these women the way that they are, I, yeah, I'm glad to say I've never dated one of them who was it was that that into cultivating her appearance all the time and then had some of the negative baggage that we're going to get into as a result of that.

Dan: 11:36

Yeah, I, I, I can say the same that I've been. I've been fairly lucky with with that. I mean I I've been fairly lucky with with that, I mean I I've gotten, I've dated some people who are close to that but not entirely would would check off. All of these was a 20 different criteria of why dating a hot woman is not a good idea.

Charles: 11:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One weird thing where he's like at the beginning of the chapter, he's like when all the books that I've read on pickup and seduction, no guy has ever really come across and said what, what's the advantage of dating such a, such an attractive woman? And it's like okay, well, in your whole chapter on diaphragmic breathing you never, never, laid out why do people, why do people need to breathe anyway? It doesn't. Nobody ever explained to me why. Why do people need to breathe anyway? Nobody ever explained to me why do people want to breathe.

Charles: 12:28

It's like okay, well, yeah, I mean I feel like the elephant in the room is men often want to date the most attractive women because of the status that it brings them. I mean, we learned way back when we, when we read 12 rules for life by Jordan Peterson and he talked about the lobsters and how lobsters have a serotonin system very similar to humans, where, as humans we are, we are constantly checking our status, subconsciously really, against other people to try to figure out, okay, where do we fit in the pecking order, where are we in the hierarchy? And the same women. The same reason that guys want to date very attractive women is the same reason they want to drive nice cars, they want to have nice houses, they want to have prestigious jobs. They want to wear a Rolex or a uh uh Omar Pegay on their wrist. I mean, yeah it. You feel better about yourself when you think I've got something other people want.

Dan: 13:25

they can't get it, but I did, and I think a lot of that is what drives men to have the attitude of I want to date this really insane outlier beauty, because I because of how people will think about me if I do- I think the key to think about, though, is if, if that's why you're you want to date somebody at that level, it's difficult then to expect other qualities to necessarily be there Right, also make you feel, yeah, like loved and appreciated and and be be a good companion, like it's. It's kind of it's not multi-dimensional, right, and it's it's a very transactional type of relationship at that point, when you were really isolating it down to that just one, that one aspect right. So that's where I think you can kind of get in trouble is if you're expecting more out of, out of the relationship that you're building based on that that one, that one aspect.

Charles: 14:36

Yeah, I, I certainly agree with that, and yeah, there's there's no guarantee that. I would say quite, quite the opposite is probably true, that the if your criteria for meeting a long-term partner, especially is just how attractive they are, okay, well then, how? How good of a partner will they be? How good of a mother will they be? If you're willing to say, well, I'm going to ignore all those things just to get this highly attractive woman, then, okay, well, at some point you're either going to decide, okay, well, she's beautiful, but she's not right for these other reasons, and then you're going to have to break up, and that's going to be rough on both of you. It's better to really figure out what it is that you want, how long you want it for, and make decisions that that line up with those goals. I mean, if, if you just want to have the prettiest girl on your arm for a party or something like that, then okay, maybe, maybe, that's fine.

Charles: 15:36

It's not a decision I would make, though, because I being being stuck next to somebody who's really good looking but we can't have a fun conversation for the whole night, that's, that's. That's not a, that's not math. That works for me. Yeah, he brings us up, and I think the reason he wants to talk us off of the ledge of oh, I've got a date, the most attractive woman I can possibly find Part of it is because the second half of that equation is and if I can't, then I just won't date.

Charles: 16:12

And he says a lot of socially anxious men, a lot of bad daters, make that decision. Like, if I can't date a woman who is so beautiful that she just knocks everybody's socks off wherever she goes, and I just won't date anybody at all, I'm not going to put any effort into into preparing myself for the dating marketplace, unless I can. I can get a 10 out of 10 every time, and so it's. It gives you that, that pass or that excuse to say, well, it's easier to just check out than it is to accept anything less than perfection.

Dan: 16:47

Yeah, and it's real easy then to kind of blame the world at that point instead of looking at yourself to make the changes that are uncomfortable.

Charles: 16:54

Yeah, and so, toward the bottom of this page that I'm on right now, he he does go in a little bit detail, a little bit more detail on his definition. He says my definition of a hot woman is a woman who needs to be noticed and validated for her physical appearance. This is not the same as having natural attractiveness or wanting to look nice. So, yeah, based on that definition, I think he and I are mostly aligned with what he's talking about. A woman needs to be noticed and validated for her physical appearance. Um, it it is.

Charles: 17:22

It is a fact that you should date people, that you are attracted to both men and women. But just be aware that if you're going for somebody who is well outside of your age range and even well outside of your own level of physical attractiveness, um, whether it's because you feel like you have to or not, you're, you're going to invest more work in keeping that relationship than should be necessary. If you've picked a compatible partner you know what I mean, sure. And if you find yourself over-investing effort into a relationship just because you think, oh, she's so pretty to keep her around, I've got to do all these things to please her and keep her happy, that is that is? That is behavior that will turn off a woman Putting all that effort in to try to keep her pleased and happy so that she won't leave you. It just reeks of desperation and it's like oof, this is not. This is not what I signed up for.

Dan: 18:27

Yeah, it's like oof this is not what I signed up for, Right? Yeah, I mean. And then at that point you've basically just devalued yourself and there's a lot less in it for her at that point Correct.

Charles: 18:40

You've revealed yourself to be not by your own behavior. You revealed yourself to be not as valuable as she is in this relationship equation valuable as she is in this relationship equation, and everybody wants to feel like their partner is as valuable, or?

Dan: 18:56

more valuable than they are, or valuable in different ways, right Like so. They might bring a different aspect of your life, of life, to the table that you're not the best at, right, and and so I? I don't. I don't look at it as somebody who's more valuable than another For me. It's what's valuable for me and to bring at what I'm looking for in my life, and a lot of those things are things that I'm not, I may not be good at, or things I want to cultivate, and that's kind of what I look for in a partner, and I'm hoping that the partner that I'm with also looks at and says, hey, listen, I'm, I'm, I'm good in these things, but I'm not necessarily as valuable.

Dan: 19:33

Or as competent in these other things, and this is what Dan brings to, to me.

Charles: 19:40

Yeah, maybe valuable is too big of a term to use in this context. I, I'm, I'm okay with that. I would say I don't feel like attractive is is the right word either. But but basically like, yeah, if you're communicating through mostly your actions, not your words, something along the lines of you're the prize and I'm lucky to have you and I'm I'm going to work and do whatever I have to to please you so that you'll stick around. If, if that's picked up, then the other person is going to be like, well, wait a second, they're, they're treating me like I'm better than them. What if I'm actually better than them? I don't, I don't want to be in that relationship where this person's tree and healthy than my Butler to keep me happy.

Dan: 20:22

Right, like yeah, I think. I think when you you start throwing around words like value and and better or whatever, it's kind of a blanket term and it's kind of like, uh, it's, it's, uh, I don't think one human is necessarily more valuable or or better than another. Right, it's. What kind of fit are they for me?

Dan: 20:42

that's the way I look at it anyway, is is hey, are they in terms of the things that I've identified that are important to me and identified that are important to her? How do we enhance or make the other person's life better in that respect?

Charles: 21:00

Yes, but I mean I'm I can't.

Dan: 21:03

To me. You're going oh, this person's valuable, so it's like to me. That would be saying, like somebody in Hollywood is just like because, because they've been successful, they've been on tv and movies and that's something that's really I I hold in high esteem, and they've got a lot of money and they've got a lot of power, like that they are a better person than I am. Where they're more valuable to me, it doesn't like it doesn't mean that they're more valuable than me, like I don't look at it that way, that's. It's just they are better at at the things that they are doing and excelling at than I am, by for sure. But to say that they're just more valuable, such a like a generalization, I like I don't, I don't like that.

Charles: 21:44

Yeah, I, I see what you're saying, and this is getting a bit convoluted, so most of it's going to get cut out, all right. Well, let's move on. The point I want to make, though, is, even if you were dating, let's say you're dating a woman, you have a partner, a girlfriend, and she makes more money than you. She's in better shape than you. She is the most physically attractive woman you've ever dated. She's got a ton of charisma. People like being around her, but when she interacts with you, she's giving you the message of Dan, you're too good for me and I'm going to sacrifice all of my values, all of my wants and desires, just to keep you around and keep you happy. Then, even though she checks off all these other boxes, you're going to look at her and be like this this is not. This is not as appealing as I agree with that.

Dan: 22:34

Absolutely no. I, I. If that was the situation, I was in a hundred percent agree with you.

Charles: 22:39

Yes, yeah, that's. That's what I'm talking about.

Dan: 22:41

I guess, okay, so I guess maybe we should say it's like how they interpret what they are bringing to the relationship.

Dan: 22:48

So, yeah, so if, even if, like you, have the opinion that they've got all these wonderful things about them, but their mental, their mental approach or their state is that they don't feel like they are and they don't have, they don't have a lot of like that sense of self-worth and it's, it's probably a little bit off of what reality is, I agree, that can absolutely.

Dan: 23:16

Yeah, you don't want somebody who really doesn't love themselves. I mean, that's the way I look at it. It's almost or doesn't recognize or is so far off base of what reality is in terms of who they are and the values that they have and how good they are. Yeah, that that can wear who, because, because it's like you can't convince somebody to believe something about themselves, right, right, like you can't force them to say, hey, look, oh, you, you are a wonderful person, you are beautiful, and things like that. If they don't believe it, it's very difficult to, yeah, to get them to get to see that by just telling them or right, that's that's, yeah, yeah, so I, I see that so let's, let's turn it the other way.

Charles: 23:56

Where, say it's? It's the man that feels that way about himself, and so he's chasing this very attractive woman. He gets her in a relationship, but then, whenever she needs any time space to herself she has to travel for work or to see family then you're getting anxious, you're getting jealous, you're getting suspicious. Whenever she needs any time space to herself, she has to travel for work or to see family, Then you're getting anxious, you're getting jealous, you're getting suspicious. You feel like I don't deserve to be in this relationship anyway because I had to work so hard to get this.

Charles: 24:19

This 10 out of 10 woman living her life or dressing up for work or whatever it is all these things become opportunities for you to feel not good enough and jealous and anxious and all this stuff. So this, this is just I'm saying another reason why this pursuit of this woman that you've put up on this pedestal is going to destroy the relationship. Because you're going to I mean, yeah, if you, if you get her by acting like you're her biggest fan, you're the president of her fan club, then you're going to always be in that role for the rest of your life. And then you're going to realize oh, she's got other fans too, and what if? What if he's a bigger fan of her than I am? Or what if he acts like he is? And then all all this anxiety just wells up to the surface.

Dan: 25:12

Yeah, I mean, I think at a base level, that is a level of you're violating somebody's trust in you and there I think you're, you're shaking the security because they are operating from this state of mind, of reality, of what reality is this? Who I am as a person, this is the values that I have. And then if you were behaving so far differently, either above that or below that, at that point then I know if I was in, if I was in the other is, if she was on the other foot and I was in a situation, I would be like what, what are you seeing here? Like where, what? What world are you living in? Like this is, this is my like, this is what I think of myself and this is and I can understand that there being a little bit of a difference from what I believe about myself and somebody else.

Dan: 25:59

But if it is so radically different where you become insanely jealous over things that you don't need to be insanely jealous of, or you you're completely ignoring things that you know bad, really really bad drug habit, it's not that bad, whatever it is Right, I think, at that point then you really kind of it's. It's one of those things where you are being or behaving as if you are somebody different than what their impression of themselves are, and if it's so far off, I think that can cause some tension in terms of this is the reality I'm living in, this is the reality you're living in, and it's not matching up and I don't know how to. How do you, how do you bridge that gap?

Charles: 26:36

Yeah, I don't think that you, I don't think that you can expect to bridge it realistically. So he goes in the whole list of hey, here are the 20 plus reasons why you shouldn't pursue hot women. You can read that if you want to. He also goes into the analogy of treating women like they're essentially celebrities or movie stars because of how they look is going to, it's going to affect the way that you behave around them, because you're trying to get something out of your interactions more than just a fun, happy, healthy relationship Like if you're, if you're around her. Or he gives a example of george clooney, lebron james if you're jay-z, if you're hanging out with them because you want the excitement and the status of being around them, then you're probably not going to be a very good friend and you're not actually going to get the, the status that you, that you were hoping for, just because you're in their orbit. So yeah, yeah, yeah. He does a pretty good job of of making that case here. And then he, he goes down the list of and now here are the things that are a little bit more important and that you should find more valuable, especially if you're looking for a long-term relationship.

Charles: 27:43

Is she happy, generous, affectionate, smart, fun, playful, disciplined, passionate, honest? Does she have a good sense of humor? Does she get along with people? Does she communicate well? Does she take care of herself? Does she have a fun, healthy attitude about sex? Does she work through her problems? And these are all things that you can't tell about a person by just looking at them. And then he gets into the difference between approach versus attraction, which is one of the most valuable pieces I got out of this book, which the idea of cold approaching women. Is you going up to a girl, giving her some line to open the conversation and eventually wanting to get her information or a date with her based solely on what you know, which is how she looks?

Dan: 28:34

Yeah, yeah, and he mentioned that. Yeah, like that's the worst reason to walk across the room to talk to somebody.

Dan: 28:40

Right, it's just purely based on on attraction and when he, when he said it that way, it was just like and it really it opened up a little bit of more understanding of of where he was coming from for me anyway and really kind of help put things in perspective where, yeah, that makes no sense whatsoever. Right, like, why would you do that? There are other people who are probably attracted to you and just you got to kind of open up your eyes and see, see what's kind of he says, like in your orbit, right in your, in your immediate area, there are probably women that are that are putting themselves closer to you, even physically, or speaking to you, that you maybe have considered just as being friendly to you, and maybe there's actually some more there, but that you've got more in common with right and those. Those are the things that you should be exploring and looking into and not not chasing something, but rather looking at what is in front of you and and looking at those open doors that he talks about.

Charles: 29:47

Yeah, and I mean cause.

Charles: 29:49

There's a dynamic there and power dynamics factor into really every relationship we have where there are you're.

Charles: 29:57

You're in relationships with people because you hopefully want to bring value to them and they have value that you want as well, and ideally, whether it's professional or personal relationships, you're both bringing things to the table that will benefit each other and you're not looking to only get or only give, but to have some sort of an equal part with the other person, where just walking up and introducing yourself and trying to get to know somebody just based on their physical appearance which a lot of that is completely out of their control it's just based on you know what their parents happen to pass down to them, that does give somebody. There's a power imbalance there. What you say I mean just being like I'm going to take my time and my effort and put it into this person based solely on the way they look. Yeah, it feels like just that taking that action on you in and of itself, you're putting them on a pedestal. You're walking into an unbalanced equation just because you've started it. You've started the interaction only based on how they look.

Dan: 31:04

Yeah, and I think a lot of people do that who aren't real social, right, and so, like I think he, one of the nice things is he's really advocating for people to build your own life and being more social.

Dan: 31:14

So if you are out there and out and about, you're going to have a lot more opportunities for other people to signal to you and approach you, and it's going to be less of a more of like a military strike where you're never going to leave in the house and so when you do, you have to like, engage and chase somebody, because if you don't, you're never going to end up meeting anybody, because you never put yourself out there, you never put yourself out and you're never being social, you're not out, you're not changing your route and all these other things that he talks about, right, so I think that really goes to show it. So it's, it's a long, it's it's a slower process, right, and but it's most likely going to be much more rewarding and it's going to work out much more often than you just going and striking and trying to chase someone down just based on the way they look, because you only leave the house, like a couple times a week.

Charles: 32:11

Yeah, and imagine, I mean, there's no other area of your life where you would think it was a good idea to say, okay, I'm never going to practice this skill, except when the stakes are yeah, are yeah, the stakes are super, duper high, like, right, I'm going to. I mean, imagine you, you get into one of those, you win one of those contests where it's like, oh, if you make this shot from half court, you, you win a hundred thousand dollars. And you're like, I feel like, if I, if I practice for it, then I won't really be ready to step up when the pressure's on. So I'm just not going to practice any half court shots until the night. I'm on the floor of the basketball Great analogy, yeah, and so I'll just, I'll just take my shot at that point because I don't want to, I don't want to deprive myself of that high pressure situation that I will surely rise to. It's like, no, you probably won't.

Charles: 33:00

So spend your time practicing social interactions in situations where it's not so high pressure. We've talked about that in the last few weeks quite a bit. Make eye contact with people at the mall, say hello to people, say good morning if you're out on a walk and just get used to doing that, and so when you do encounter a woman who is actually giving you indications that she might be interested in having a conversation with you by the way she's looking, her body language then it will be much easier for you to start that conversation with someone who's already shown some interest than just going in completely cold from scratch doing something that you've never done before.

Dan: 33:39

Yeah.

Charles: 33:40

Yep. So the the analogy he always uses is don't don't start banging on doors that may or may not be deadbolted. You don't really know when there are other plenty of doors out there. If you know, if you know what to look for, that are they've already been swung open for you. All you have to do is walk through them. And that's where he makes the distinction of attraction versus approach. Let go of the idea that you have to cold approach people and just learn to recognize the signs that someone's already attracted to you, and then go start a nice conversation with somebody who's already communicated to you that they'd like you to come up to them and start talking and and in the meantime, while you're waiting for that attraction to develop and happen, go do something like whatever it is.

Dan: 34:26

distract yourself by going to a coffee shop or looking for some new clothes or something else, going to a bookstore, reading some books, things like that, to build yourself up. So it's like a win-win situation. At that point, right, you're working on yourself and you're distracting yourself from just sitting around waiting for something to happen, right?

Charles: 34:48

Yeah, and we'll get into this more in the next chapter. But something else he talks about is build an attractive lifestyle for yourself, and when you do that, then it won't be surprising that people are attracted to you and that they're giving off signals that they may be interested in getting to know you. But if you are not building that attractive lifestyle we'll talk about exactly what that means. If you're not doing that, then you yourself won't believe that people have a reason to be attracted to you and you will part of that paradigm effect, that confirmation bias. Even when women are looking at you and smiling or holding eye contact, laughing at your jokes, looking your way, standing close to you, when they're doing all these things that are typically signs of attraction, you won't believe that that could possibly be going on, so you'll just miss it constantly and not act on it.

Dan: 35:46

Yep, yep.

Charles: 35:49

All right, let's see.

Charles: 35:55

Yeah, his his point is also that in in his own experience, he's found that when he focused on building up his own lifestyle to be more attractive, he started to have more younger, attractive women putting themselves in his orbit so that he had the opportunity to start conversations with them, and they were often very excited to get to know him and, in some cases, be intimate with him.

Charles: 36:22

So that's that's Dr Glover's experience as he shares it personally, and and I would say the same thing when I got divorced quite a few years ago and started focusing on living the kind of life that I wanted and doing the things that I found fun working out more, going for lots of hikes, going on trips by solo travel I started getting more attention for women than I ever did before I got married, when I just didn't know what I was doing, didn't know what I wanted out of life, didn't know really how to have fun other than sit around and play video games and BS with my friends. When I started doing more fun things that I found more meaningful and more fulfilling in my life, then I started getting more attention from either the women I already knew or even women that I was just getting to know through social circles or dating apps or whatever.

Dan: 37:21

Yeah, I believe it. A lot of it just comes, it feeds back into you. If you're feeling more fulfilled, you're going to carry yourself differently, you're going to speak differently and people will pick up on that. That level of happiness, fulfillment, confidence, and that's you're going to be attracted to, that.

Charles: 37:40

Yeah, because I mean building a life that you enjoy is I mean, it should be the ultimate goal for for everybody, and men in particular, as that's who this book's audience is. You don't want to try to create some sort of a cookie cutter life just because you want other people to be attracted to it, like, ooh, what, what are 26 year old women into now? Let me, let me build a life around the things that I think they'll like, and then then they'll, they'll come running. It's like that's that will only work on the most uninteresting, shallow people that you can find, where building a life that you legitimately enjoy and that you can get meaning out of is going to be the thing that attracts other people with similar interests. And if you have similar interests and similar values, then there's a potential for long-term relationship that brings value to both of you.

Charles: 38:34

But if you're, if you're just trying to do, oh, I hear women like Taylor Swift, for example, so I'm going to pretend like I like Taylor Swift, we Swifties, we, we can find out, we can, we can nose out the fakers quick enough. So sniff out those Absolutely, yeah, so don't even try. Don't have those Swifties. Sniff out the fake Swifties, yeah, so don't even try that, because the real ones, we, we, we know, I mean when yeah, you guys do have a certain stink, that's for sure.

Charles: 39:07

That's right, it's. It's bath and body works, soaps, deodorants, yeah. So I'm just saying don't, don't try to manipulate people into being attracted to your life by building a fake life that you think people will be attracted to.

Dan: 39:25

Yeah, it's only going to last so long. You're going to attract people who are really into that thing, and then they're going to, like you said, they'll smell your out and you're going to be miserable the whole time pretending to see it.

Charles: 39:35

The stuff you're not into, yeah, if you're not really in, not really in sucks, yeah, don't, don't do that. So, all right, we'll stop there for today and then the next chapter is going to be create a lifestyle that attracts women. Naturally, we'll talk about what you can bring to the table and make a great life that challenges your self-limiting beliefs. And, yeah, let's you have just a fun, exciting life that will attract all kinds of people to it Friends, dating, partners. He'll again mention how his career takes off when he starts focusing on himself.

Charles: 40:15

Such a brat I'm kidding, not completely. I mean there are some parts where where he gets in his story where it's like, okay, there's one section where he's like in this, in this chapter we covered today, it's like don't chase young hot women. But just so you know, I get young, I get young hot women all the time. I mean there's, there's a little bit of that in his, in his. It is in his chapter like, okay, no, good, good for you. And then, yeah, so all right, we'll talk to you next time, dan. Thanks very much. Yep, see you bye. Thank you so much for sticking to the end and listening to the entire episode, dan, and I certainly appreciate it again, check our website, mindfullymasculinecom, where you can find full audio and video episodes, as well as anything else we decide to share. Thanks, talk to you next time.