Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
The White Lotus: When Power Feels Empty
Spoilers ahead for The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 6
This episode also includes extended discussion of suicide and suicidal ideation, as portrayed in the show. Please listen with care.
Incest, ecstasy, ego collapses, and a gun that keeps changing hands—Episode 6 of The White Lotus pulls no punches, and neither do we. Charles and Dan unpack the unraveling masculinity of Saxon, Rick, and Timothy, asking what happens when the illusion of control shatters and power turns out to be just another costume.
We talk sibling boundaries obliterated, suicide contemplated, and the high cost of avoiding emotional discomfort—especially for men who’ve built their identities on dominance, detachment, or denial.
It’s one of our most intense—and most honest—conversations yet.
We always run towards pleasure and away from pain, but when we get to wherever we want to go, there's only more pain because we're running towards the pleasure. And so what you're talking about is, yeah, we're running towards that pleasure and that good feeling of what Rick was doing, what Saxon's doing, right, yeah. And you end up not realizing that you're actually you're not curing the root cause of the pain.
Charles:No, it's really not by running towards the pleasure.
Dan:You're not. You're running away from the problem you're not addressing Exactly and you can't outrun pain. That was the line he said. You can't outrun pain. Yeah, it's like this guy is pretty wise, all right.
Charles:I like this guy. Welcome back to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast this. In today's episode, dan and I continue our exploration of masculinity in the White Lotus, this time diving into Season 3, episode 6. If you're not caught up, consider this your spoiler alert. We will be discussing plot and character developments from all episodes up to and including Episode 6. One more heads up before we begin. This conversation includes an extended discussion about suicide and suicidal ideation as it relates to the characters in the show. So if that's a sensitive topic for you right now, please take care of yourself and feel free to skip this one or come back to it later. All right, let's get into it as if they are important. Just yeah, figure it out the things that I really want to do versus the things that I feel like I should want to do. But it's good. I mean, I've got good problems to have and good challenges to work through, but it is still challenging in the lab, you know what's new with me?
Dan:Been a little crazy busy with the full-time paying job as we talked about, yeah and yeah, but excited for some things we talked about this morning or last night, I guess it was. Yeah, I feel like I'm on track. I definitely am grateful for you working with my tendencies.
Charles:Ditto.
Dan:Yeah. So I think we found a way through and I'm excited for it. So that's, I'm looking forward to some new things coming down the pipe for my career.
Charles:So yeah, I'm looking forward to that as well. I think it's going to be. I think we're both going to be able to have a fun time, yeah, working through some ideas. That reminds me. Let me, okay, I'll go through and upload all those, do you? All the files that I worked on this morning, later on, sweet thanks, and yeah, okay, so let's jump back in. We're on.
Charles:We're up to episode number six of of eight of talking about the white lotus and the fellas and all the stuff they're going through. Six was pretty, pretty wild, yeah, yeah, a lot of suicide mixed in with a bit of incest, uh-huh, drug use, violence, all the major food groups, I suppose. So we'll start with saxon, because he seemed to be the most out of control at the beginning of this episode. So he, he got drunk, he did drugs and he had engaged in some incest with his little brother, which was prizing and wild to see. Yeah, and he's not handling it very well, right, he, he's having some trouble with it and I mean I would too, but I would also again, I, you know it's hard to not, you don't want to be judgmental. It's like look, people make mistakes, people want to fuck their brothers.
Dan:Let them. I mean you might've judged it's pretty Brotherfucker, yeah, no-transcript next day.
Charles:And even if there weren't drugs or alcohol involved or brothers just like, oh that the way I behaved yesterday was not in alignment with who I thought I was or who I want the world to think I am now. What do I do about that?
Dan:so what's interesting here is the scenes where saxon is engaging with his brother from the last episode, if you remember, they're like kiss, and even this episode. I'm not going to say saxon's the victim here, but he definitely was not the aggressor. Yeah, he's not the initiator, for sure. And his face, like after the kiss and then after after the incident, was of disgust.
Charles:So, yeah, yes, granted he didn't stop it, but at the same time I feel like, yeah, he was kind of a almost a victim of his little brother being a little aggressive with him, with the kiss that kind of came out of nowhere, agreed and yeah, and I think and I think that's part of I think that really contributes to his level of discomfort, because it's not only, hey, I'm this super alpha, macho man, straight guy, but a lot of his identity is also I'm the guy, I'm the initiator, I'm the guy that makes things happen.
Charles:Oh, good, point, right, this was him being reactive, things happening to him and going along with it, and that's not who he wants to be, either right, and I would almost I mean look, doing an act that is certainly not straight.
Charles:I mean, whether you want to call it gay or not, or homosexual, I don't really care about that label but it's not the, it's not the actions of the straight guy that he wants all the ladies at the resort to think he is and that he wants to think of himself at. So, yeah, he. And it's not like he decided, oh, I'm going to try this. It's like, no, he was the person that it got done to and it happened to, and so, yeah, he doesn't have the autonomy, the agency or the proactiveness that he fancies about himself. Right, and I think it hit him that way. It hit him as a straight guy engaging in activity that's not straight and it hit him as an older brother who's an activity that's not straight, and it hit him as an older brother who's engaging in this activity with his younger brother than his younger brother initiated. So there's a lot of levels that this is a really fucked up situation for sure.
Charles:For sure and, but again, he's not some innocent victim that all this happened to without his.
Dan:He wasn't forced into anything no, but he thinks he was, because you remember he had a conversation with the girls the next day, yeah, and they're like he's like, oh, they asked if he had a ever had a threesome before. And he's like, yeah, lots of times, but you know, never, never with a guy. And they're like, well, what about last night? And like it's like what about last night? He's like well, he's like oh well, you kissed. And he's just like, well, you forced us to. And it's like no, well, he's like oh well, you kissed. And he's just like, well, you forced us to. And it's like, no, nobody forced you to kiss at that point, right? So again, yeah, a little bit of, but he's all over the place after that experience, I mean yeah, it's, I mean it all.
Charles:I mean like every other guy on the show. It's like, okay, now let's take some, let's take some stuff out of their hands, let's take some autonomy away and then see how everybody reacts to it. Yeah, and I mean generally, the answer is not good. Yeah, because I think most of us guys don't react well to I mean think about a breakup, breaking up with someone versus being broken up with. I mean, the level of how it affects you is completely different when it's something that happens to you versus something that you decide to make happen.
Charles:And we've talked about this before, I think referencing some of Jordan Peterson's work, or at least something that he's talked about where it's like the guys who come back from war with PTSD they're not the special forces operators who are told okay, go breach that building.
Charles:Those aren't the guys that come away with PTSD. It's the guys who are just driving in a convoy and, all of a sudden, a bomb goes off and, you know, just injured. Yeah, they're not expecting it, it wasn't something that they initiated, they're just surprised and reacting to it. Those are the guys that have PTSD, the guys who were told okay, go into that building with a bunch of guys that have guns and kill them all. Those are the guys that don't typically suffer as much as the guys who are just going about their business. As a mechanic or a truck driver happens to be in the middle of a war zone, that something unexpected happens and they're like okay, now I can never relax doing my job for the rest of my life because a bomb could go off it just goes to show how important it is to be mentally prepared for whatever you're engaging.
Dan:It doesn't even have to be just war, right, exactly whatever anything whatever, it is right exactly.
Charles:You need to have that sense of I'm the one making life happen, not life is happening to me, and I think that's where a lot of sanctions issues are coming from, like this. These things are just happening to him, yeah, and so he feels like he's out of control, out of power and he's he's not dealing with it well again, as most of us do not right.
Dan:But, in all fairness, he there was a scene I don't know if that was the last episode before where they closed out and he's like, oh, right before the full moon party. He's like, oh, shit's gonna get crazy, right. So yeah, okay, oh, but he's putting himself.
Charles:But how crazy is it gonna be? Exactly, yeah, like I'm okay with things getting crazy, exactly as far as I want them to right, and but yeah, I mean, and again, it's not, like I'm not a fan. Okay, now let's blame him for anything, like there's nothing wrong that happened, that he's the like hey, you should have, this is your fault, you shouldn't have done this. But at the same time and it kind of gets into a gray area where we don't say this and we shouldn't say this about people when something bad happens to them. They're a victim of something we don't say, oh, but what were you wearing? Or you were you wearing, or you shouldn't have. You shouldn't have that much to drink, it's like. But in this case, saxon was a person with a lot of power going into this situation and he made decisions that were going to reduce his agency.
Dan:He and he's trying to get something out of it, remember, yeah absolutely.
Charles:Yeah, he wants to hook up with what you want, one or both of these girls exactly right, and so that's he thought he was going to get something out of it.
Dan:Remember? Yeah, absolutely yeah, he wants to hook up with what you want one or both of these girls, exactly right, and so that's he thought he was going to get something out of it.
Charles:yeah, go in with a lot of power, trade-off and an agenda and then you start doing things like drinking too much and popping drugs and you've got to be at least cognizant of the fact that, okay, some things could right my agenda might not work out exactly the way that I wanted to, and if I'm in a, if I choose to be into it in a diminished state, it was like, yeah, boy, this is, I mean, this is uncomfortable thinking about, because, again, I am not a fan of blaming people who get it over their head.
Dan:The girls did not let him off because Chelsea goes. I don't think there's a drug in the world that would make me get with my brother, and then he's just like oh yeah stumbles off back to.
Charles:Let's go back to bed, yeah yeah, so yeah, on the one hand, it's like I feel for a person who's going through an awkward difficult time, but it's like also, you certainly made this bed and now, dude, doing some emotional work, to lie in. It is going to be difficult next to your brother. Yes, exactly. Well, let's talk about lachlan's react. Yeah, how did he react to this? He is not horrified and he's not disgusted.
Dan:I think he's confused because afterwards he's too like I.
Charles:I think his brother Saxon was giving him the cold shoulder yeah, I think I don't think that this is a guy who is quote-unquote gay for his older brother. I don't think that's what's going on. I think I don't think that this is a guy who is quote unquote gay for his older brother. I don't think that's what's going on. I think he just wants to feel connected and like he has something in common with this guy that he looks up to and he said yeah, here's an opportunity for me to do something that'll make me and my brother closer together. Yeah, like whoops, no, it didn't. And it'll make him happy.
Dan:Yes, exactly didn't, and it'll make him happy. Yeah, exactly, yeah. So I don't remember in the scene if, like, saxon was masturbating on his own and then Lockie came in, or if it was always Lockie the whole time. But regardless, yeah, lockie's probably getting the message.
Charles:Hey, yeah, he thought he was following the script too Right? This is what I'm supposed to do in this situation In all fairness.
Dan:I mean, the kid's 18 years old and he's in this threesome after drinking and doing drugs and everything else like that. He yeah, he probably doesn't know where the boundaries are for his brother I mean, that's not something you talk about on the dinner table, clearly and not that family either.
Charles:Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah. This whole thing is a level of repression and just I mean, when you're not willing to talk about anything, then your whole life is just I'll just go with the flow. And then again you look back the next day of go with the flow and maybe you're like, ooh, that I don't know if that was the right move or not.
Dan:So yeah, sure, I mean, look, we've all done stupid stuff. So yeah, not quite the same level, no, but I'm saying, going with the whole analogy, right? Yes, it's just like you think this is what's right. You're making your best decision. You made the best decision with the information you had at the time Right.
Charles:And I think that I mean the people I know that like the like going out drinking, like the rave scene, like all that stuff, the ones that seem to have, yeah, somewhat of a handle on partying, are the ones that go in with a plan of I'm going to watch my drink, I'm going to always be with a friend and we're going to have each other's backs and we're one of us isn't going to just find some girl or guy to just leave with and leave the other person stranded. I mean, those are the people that seem to come out of that life, once they do age out of it, without really bad stories, you know, but it's like okay, well, it's tough. I mean, it's very easy to make the case of oh, I don't, I'm just not going to engage in that life at all because it's too hard to get fucked up on drugs and alcohol and try to manage the outcomes.
Dan:It can be Absolutely, yeah, right, but if you have intentions going in, it's certainly better than not having intentions, right, but if you have intentions, going in.
Charles:It's certainly better than not having intentions, right, yeah. But it's also be aware that all the best plans that you make I mean nobody drives to the bar or the restaurant planning to get a DUI on the way home, right? Everybody is like, oh, either I won't drink that much, or if I do drink that much, I'll arrange for transport safely back to my house. And then you get drunk and decide that, oh no, making the drive home seems like a great idea because your ability to make good decisions is going to be impacted, oh for sure, when you're hitting the alcohol and the ecstasy.
Dan:Yeah, I mean, even when you're hangry, if you've got you, try to make decisions, don't.
Charles:Don't, we're fixing your physical state, yeah going to the grocery store when you're hungry look at what ends up in your cart versus after you've had a big meal and then you go grocery shopping yeah, or things that bother you from other people, relationships, whatever that's.
Dan:I've really, as I've gotten older, realize, realized that I need to take my time and not make any decisions when it comes to like feeling strong emotions in any direction, until I've given it some time and I can make the decision from a less emotional state. And it always works out better and most of the time I don't even need to make decisions, but by that point things kind of worked out ironically yeah, so, all right, the boys are having all this fun.
Charles:What's their dad up to? Oh, my, my God, they're definitely opening scene. Yes, right, I mean, yeah, there were. Yeah, he's fantasizing about suicide and murder suicide in this episode. Right, and one, one point that, as I was putting together the analysis for this is the interesting thing, is part of his fantasy is the being found after he does it. Yeah, after he does it, yeah, like the, I'm going to kill myself and then I'm going to be discovered by my family and my family's going to be very upset about it, because but I feel like that's what's stopping him from doing it.
Dan:That was at least my interpretation. Maybe I'm reading too much into it yeah, see, I think what's stopping him from doing it is just the cowardice yeah, well, I guess the first time he got caught when he was really going to do it remember his wife did on him the last episode yeah, so yeah, I guess he was. Yeah, he was ready to do it.
Charles:Well, I think there's a difference between being walked in on in the act versus being walked in on after you do it. You know where One you're going to notice. Yeah, it's that thing. Yeah, one you're around for and the other one you're not. But yeah it's. Yeah. I think I think there is something to be said for I mean people who do choose to commit suicide in a way that their loved ones will discover them. It's. I mean, I remember when arty from the howard stirred show, when he I think it was his second suicide attempt where he drank a bunch of bleach and then stabbed himself like nine times in the stomach and then his mom found him Dabbed himself yeah drank what he did.
Charles:He drank bleach and then he stabbed himself and then his mom found him and it was interesting. The first thing I thought was because when you talk about his mom on the show, it's it was always about oh, how much I love my mom, how much of a mama's boy I am. It's like, yeah, but I I think there's an undercurrent of anger or resentment. If you're willing to kill yourself in a way, in a violent way like that, and your mom is going to discover your body, yeah, I think that's kind of a fuck you to your mom a little bit.
Dan:Oh my god, I had no idea he did that or tried to do that, that's yeah, I mean a guy with that kind of money.
Charles:He could very easily rent a boat, go out to the middle of the ocean, take a bunch of sleeping pills and then just fall off the boat, okay, so here's a question Stabbing yourself seems like a slow and painful way to go about doing this.
Dan:Is it one of those things where he really doesn't want to do it and just wants to get caught and wants some attention? You think yeah, could be I mean, I feel like there's so many easier ways to go about that yeah, no, there are.
Charles:There are ways to. There are ways to kill yourself that are nearly 100 effective, and drinking bleach and stabbing yourself is not one of them, because your, your cuts are going to be shallow, I mean right but like moving forward from that your life, you're gonna be fucking up your stomach Like how do you life afterwards?
Charles:They found out he went straight into surgery. I mean, obviously they had to do a lot of work to repair the damage that he did and pump his stomach and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but he was also I mean he was also hitting the heroin pretty heavy and the alcohol and he was in rough shape. But yeah, the whole I'm going to do this and I'm going to get discovered is it does it does feel like a final fu to your family?
Dan:I mean maybe, because I think that was this episode where tim was talking about do you know what kind of pressure I'm under? Or was that?
Charles:maybe that's the last I think that was the last, the last one, right before bed and he's just like he's telling his wife.
Dan:He's like you know what kind of pressure I'm under, or was that? Maybe that's the last? I think that was the last, the last one right before bed. And he's just like he's telling his wife.
Charles:He's like you know what kind of fucking pressure I'm under? Yeah.
Dan:Like as if she doesn't understand. So maybe there is a little element of.
Charles:Yeah, like I'm out here on my own, you need to see what you're going to deal with Right.
Dan:Maybe you're right.
Charles:And so it's interesting that his the tool that he stole to make this happen. The gun gets stolen back.
Dan:How weird is that the way they set that up. They add a little mysticism in there because Guy Tocco is in there and then it's a chest of probably 20 drawers. The first one he opens up and basically in the nick of time because as he's walking out of the compound there, Timothy comes back. Tim and his wife are coming back on the way back, so any if he had been looking through any of the other drawers to try to find that thing, he probably would've been caught.
Charles:Yeah, that was interesting. I thought that. I thought I remember the drawer being a little bit open, but maybe not. I don't think so I think cause they were playing all the Timothy. Leave the drawer a little right.
Dan:They played all this mystical. They're definitely setting it up to be some sort of spiritual like awakening or signal that Guy Talk had.
Charles:Yeah, yeah. So now, seemingly, this guy's easiest way of doing it goes away. So it's like, okay, he's not, he's not going to not commit suicide with a gun because he's worked anything out. It's going to be. It's just like what if the tool went away, but the desire, I'm sure, is still going to be there as he continues to think about what's going on with this business away, but the desire, I'm sure, is still going to be there as he continues to think about what's going on with this business.
Dan:So would you give guy talk credit in terms of saving his life? No, because I don't know that. He didn't do it intentionally. He didn't. He didn't know he was going to do what he's done yeah, that's true, I mean he.
Charles:Yeah, in that of anything, I still don't give guy talk a pass. Or a gun got stolen on your watch. You have no idea what kind of a mass murder he was chasing a woman, by the way and yeah, you have no idea what level of violence could be visited upon this resort because the gun got stolen and your, your move still to keep quiet about it and not immediately be like, hey, my gun stolen, hey, the surveillance video has this guy doing it? When you get three or four guys together with guns to go to his bungalow and get the gun back, yeah, I mean so.
Charles:Yeah, I feel like guy talk definitely let's show us maybe a little male pride there, right, I mean, well, certainly that, but he's also, I mean that's, yeah, his job is to turn his back on the screw-up that he made and make the hard decision for the sake of the safety of the guests and the staff, and he didn't do that. So, yeah, yeah he the up that he made and make the hard decision for the sake of the safety of the guests and the staff. And he didn't do that. So yeah he the fact that he didn't immediately announce hey, this gun's been stolen. We need to, we need to figure it out.
Dan:That would have totally right, and I can see. I can see why he did that because that would have ruined his life. It would have been fired for sure, right, he would have lost respect from Mook yeah, her name.
Charles:Right, those are her name. I don't remember what her real name is, but yeah.
Dan:Would have lost respect from her and and probably himself, for just another. He already felt embarrassed for the way he went down from the initial attack. Now he's going to be basically completely humiliated on multiple levels. So I can see the pressure there. So I could see the pressure there.
Charles:I can see the pressure there too, but that doesn't excuse it, I agree. Yeah, he did the wrong thing, and I mean him getting the gun back the way that he did unbelievably lucky for him.
Dan:Right, but the thing is he already knew that Tim had it. Like he saw in the video, he had it, so all he had to do at that point was go okay, look, this mother took the gun. And yes, he looks bad that it's taken, but it's not like they have to do a pro campus wide search for it at this point, right.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, it's still. I mean he got unbelievably lucky that you know. I mean even Timothy killing himself would have been one of the better case scenarios for a gun being stolen. I mean that would be bad having a guest steal a gun and kill himself on your watch, but yeah, but then you still, it could have been like a mass murder. Yeah.
Dan:It could have been. He steals a gun, kills his family, then himself, but now the resort has a reputation for somebody dying right, somebody getting killed, and that was your fault, because it was the gun that you let go Right, so yeah.
Charles:So, yeah, guy talk got lucky, but it was just luck and I, yeah, I don't give him any credit. And the thing is we don't know if Timothy he could have had that gun for a year and still not been willing to pull the trigger. A lot of people have suicidal thoughts and ideation without actually moving forward with it.
Dan:yeah, and so I mean timothy could have been in that thing, but you know, we see with the way the final two episodes on right whether the thing was. I think it was the last episode where he was right about to press pull the trigger. Maybe he wasn't I mean I felt like he was in it.
Charles:The only reason why I stopped was because he got interrupted by his wife there are a lot of people in pop, maybe even listeners to our show, who get really close to doing it without doing it, and he could have been one of those many people. I don't know. That is incredibly close, yeah, it is, but you know that there are definitely people that get very close on multiple occasions and never actually do it. He and he could be one of them. So let's talk about Rick. So Rick is still you got to think at some level dealing with the out, the, the fallout of hearing his friend's monologue from the last episode, and then it's like, okay, now let's move on to this caper.
Dan:I mean that's basically. It sounds like it was his entire life's purpose was to meet this guy. So I could see him very easily and quickly, like he doesn't matter what Chelsea's doing, what Chelsea's doing for him or to him or whatever. This other guy freak, whatever, yeah, and so he's back, fixated on it and he's going to do anything he can and, if you remember, get this confrontation and he basically is lying to everybody. He's got the gun with him. He told his buddy that he told Frank, he Told his buddy that he told Frankie wasn't going to bring the gun.
Charles:So yeah, so he Man's on a mission, he makes up the whole fake story with the producer, the director, the let's get together, we're going to put you, put the wife in movies and the episode just ends with him showing up at their house for the meeting. And yeah, he is. It is interesting how friendly and jovial he can be with her and when he needs to get what he wants, he's able to show this woman a fake side of himself to get what he wants out of her. And meanwhile he can't show his girlfriend anything like that fake or authentic. That would obviously make her very happy to be able to have that kind of see that side of him. Yeah, but it's not. Yeah, it's not worth the effort to even fake it with his girlfriend. Where he's to get an audience with this guy that he wants to confront, he's willing to do whatever, yeah it really just shows that how dangerous it is to live this victim mindset for your entire life.
Dan:That's what it sounds like when he was talking about this. Guy needs to know what he did to me Right by removing my father out of my life.
Charles:Yeah, and I'll do whatever I have to do.
Dan:I'll become whoever I have to be to get my opportunity and the ironic part was he was also going in without a plan Cause every time somebody asked him I think it was Chelsea andsea and frank was like what are you going to do when you get there? I don't know it was, I don't know. I just I need to tell him and then that's it, and it's just like well, well then, why you're bringing the gun?
Charles:and then, like you're basically just going to let your emotions give you, take you for a ride at that point, like that's what the other five actions, like you don't know how this guy's going to react, and then you're going to be subject to just reacting to how this guy chooses to interact with you yeah, yeah, I mean, you can see, this is a setup for a disaster and it's kind of like Saxon.
Charles:It's like, okay, you've got this big plan, but you're not willing to actually go all the way with thinking out the consequences of your actions. So therefore, you're going into this with way less power and control than you think you actually have. Yeah, and I mean we were having conversations about 75 hard last night where it's like, yeah, go into something like that without a full comprehensive plan, with just I got half plans and half vibes and we'll see how it works out. Well, it's not going to work out.
Dan:Yeah it's a lot easier to go in that way. It's a lot easier to not think about the boundaries that you're going to put on yourself right and think through the different scenarios of what could happen in those scenarios, which would dictate where you put those boundaries yeah, yeah, what are all the things?
Dan:and I mean, you talked about that when, if you're going out to doing drugs or whatever, out at a party, whatever, yeah, you basically just set your boundaries because you're like, oh, I'm gonna have somebody watch my back because there's a possibility that somebody could put something in my drink or whatever else. I'm not gonna go chase this other person because then how am I gonna get home? What are we gonna do, like? So you're right, you're thinking ahead of time and putting those boundaries in place and it sounds simple, but there's a lot of times we just are like, oh, just, I don't have to put the time and energy and effort. Well, it is not fun.
Charles:I mean, you know how much time do you want to spend planning out the fun evening of electronic music and drugs and alcohol and sex?
Charles:And it's like, okay, yeah, before we do all that, let's get together, let's open up our spreadsheets and put together a plan. Nobody wants to do that, but I've created a PowerPoint and you can see here Exactly and yeah, I understand not wanting to do that or your big, your big vendetta, getting revenge for the guy that you know killed your dad or whatever. It's like, yeah, I that the person who decides to go on that mission is not the person who says and now I'm going to plan out all of the eventualities and the details. Because once you start planning your vendetta, once you start putting the plan into pen and paper, you're like, oh, this is a terrible idea, I shouldn't do this. And probably the same thing happens when it comes to drugs, alcohol and prodigious sex. It's like, once I plan out how I'm going to have enjoy my drugs, alcohol and consequence riddled sex, oh wait, okay, now that I see this in paper, maybe I shouldn't do this with my night, maybe I should do something else.
Dan:Yeah, that doesn't make you feel good, so you don't end up doing it.
Charles:Yeah, so it's, it's tough. It's like the way you go about surviving some of these dangerous situations is by asking yourself hard questions about these dangerous situations, to the level where you decide, oh, this is too dangerous, I'm not going to do that. And so I mean look, I know people who struggle with relationships and therapy and it's like, okay, well, if I do enough therapy, then I won't be drawn to these kinds of people anymore. Well, that doesn't sound like very much fun. I'm already drawn to these kinds of people. So if I and that makes me feel good, yeah, if I work on myself to the point where I'm not interested in this kind of life anymore, then I'm not going to have this kind of life anymore.
Dan:Yeah, I mean, if you remember, in this episode the Saxons go, saxons, the Ratliff's go to the monk, to the to combat, and Timothy meets with the monk and he's like he's like why you? He's like why you know the monk knows what he wants to ask. He's like speechless and he's just like you want to know why your daughter wants to come here. And the monk is like says there's a lot of people that come from your country that come to stay here because of spiritual malaise. And he talks about how we always run towards pleasure and away from pain, but when we get to wherever we want to go, there's only more pain because we're running towards the pleasure. And so what you're talking about is, yeah, we're running towards that pleasure and that good feeling of what Rick was doing, what Saxon's doing, right, yeah. And you end up not realizing that you're actually you're not curing the root cause of the pain.
Charles:No, it's really not.
Dan:By running towards the pleasure, you're running away from the problem. You of the pain. No, it's really not. By running towards the pleasure, you're not. You're running away from the problem, you're not addressing it Exactly and you can't outrun pain. That was the line he said. You can't outrun pain. Yeah, it's like. This guy is pretty wise.
Charles:All right, I like this guy. Yeah, you can't out. You definitely can't outrun pain and you can. The pain goes away.
Dan:Right and by going through that pain. That's what builds resilience, too Right. So I think that's an important part, that we need to learn how to get a little uncomfortable with everything so that we can be resilient and address the pain yeah. More quickly.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, these the shortcuts are never shortcuts, even though they seem like they are. But yeah, the result that you say you want is through the work that you don't want to do.
Dan:yeah, and unfortunately it always works that way that's the best thing, though, is the stuff you don't want to do are is usually the path forward, is the path, is the way that you need to go, yeah. So if you're ever confused, not sure what to work on, whatever you don't want to do, that's there you go. There's your path in front of you. Yeah, whatever you don't want to do, that's there you go.
Charles:There's your path in front of it, whatever you're working hard to avoid, oh yeah, is what you should be working hard to conquer.
Dan:Guilty yeah.
Charles:Same, all right. Well, let's stop there. We only got two episodes left, seven and eight. And yeah, from really six, seven and eight, those three episodes. They just kind of accelerate and get crazier and crazier and I'm looking forward to talking about seven and especially eight. And yeah, we'll, we'll address it next week. Thanks, dan, all right, thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Mindfully Masculine podcast in its entirety. If you've made it this far, we appreciate you being part of the conversation. For full audio and video episodes and anything else we feel like sharing, check out mindfullymasculinecom. We'll be back soon to break down episode seven of the season of the White Lotus, where things will continue to get messier. We'll see you then.
.jpg)