Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
Charles and Dan are just two guys talking about relationships, masculinity, and authenticity. Join them as they discuss books and media, as well as their (sometimes messy) personal stories, to encourage men to join the fight for their mental, physical, and emotional health--because a world of healthy, resilient men is a thriving and more secure world for everyone.
Mindfully Masculine: Personal Growth and Mental Health for Men
The Let Them Theory: Comparing and Craving
In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan continue their exploration of The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, turning a critical eye toward two major ideas: fairness and comparison.
First, they take on the statement “life isn’t fair”—not to reject it outright, but to unpack its usefulness. Is declaring unfairness a helpful truth, or a dead-end framing? The conversation pushes beyond the cliché to explore what men are actually supposed to do with that idea.
Then, they dive into the difference between comparison that inspires and comparison that corrodes. Drawing from their own experiences, Charles and Dan discuss how jealousy can reveal what you value—and how to use that information for growth, not shame.
Listeners will walk away with a clearer sense of how to redirect energy from external frustration to internal clarity—while staying grounded in reality, not just motivational slogans.
If you’ve ever struggled with feeling behind, envious, or like effort doesn’t matter because “life’s just unfair,” this episode offers a more honest, masculine path forward.
Find all episodes and more at mindfullymasculine.com.
It's not my job to say Mel Robbins did her daughter dirty, but it kind of is my job to say that, because I would not appreciate being talked about the way that she talks about her oldest daughter. Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. In this episode, we are challenging some of the more popular ideas from chapters 9 and 10 of the Let them Theory by Mel Robbins. Dan and I will take on her claim that life isn't fair and make a case for why she gets that wrong. We also push back against her 30-second rule, arguing that real change takes more than a quick decision. It takes consistent effort over time. And we wrap up the conversation about learning to love the process, not just chasing the result. Check out our website mindfullymasculinecom for all of our episodes, audio video, anything else we want to share and enjoy.
Dan:Good morning Charles. How are you?
Charles:Hey Dan Good, how are you?
Dan:I am doing well.
Charles:Any new adventures to talk about?
Dan:No, nothing, nothing at all.
Charles:Nothing happened at all this morning, so yeah, this morning I got here and we were all. We were both locked out of your house.
Dan:Thanks to me, because I ignored lots of beeping from my front door lock for many months now.
Charles:Yeah, the lock was definitely smarter than the owner.
Dan:In this case, absolutely, and the owner had his sprinkling system replaced. So, of course, the secret outdoor key that I hide in my fake sprinkler head was nowhere to be found. Where do we think?
Charles:that is Probably just in the dumpster.
Dan:Oh yeah, from the system, or best case scenario my, my, my old sprinkler guys have it.
Charles:Oh, maybe, yeah, yeah, and I didn't have my lock picking kit which uh that, uh a lot of good it did me this morning. It was a little bit of a blow. Why do I not just keep that in my car at all times? It makes no sense.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:What good is it doing to me in my house? None, yep, so I'm going to have to.
Dan:You've got the keys to your house. You never need to break in there.
Charles:Actually, no, I'd be called AAA as well. Oh my God, yeah, so AAA came out. Let us back in.
Dan:So something I didn't realize AAA does not just open cars. Cars, yeah, so they contact a locksmith and they will credit your account as if it was a car, basically, I guess. So I had a $50 voucher kind of for my AAA membership for unlocking a car. So I had a $50 voucher kind of for my AAA membership for unlocking a car. They credited that towards the cost of opening the front door, which apparently is cheaper than trying to re-engineer a new key.
Charles:That doesn't surprise me. On a newer car with the electronic, newer.
Dan:Transponder 2014. I mean, I guess for you it's a newer car, Absolutely.
Charles:Why I have a 2011. Yeah, it's a newer car. Absolutely why I have a 2011. Yeah, I think 2011 might be the the newest car I've ever had, because my my yaris was also a 2011 and every car I've had since then has been older than 2011. Wow, I don't think I've owned a car newer than 2011 and the new cars treating you well.
Dan:The honda, yes yeah, it's nice.
Charles:yeah had to buy new tires for it like right after I bought it and, uh, those were somewhat expensive but I got them at Walmart and I got a tie, a kind of tire at Walmart that they assured me like every Walmart carries, and I got the road hazard warranty. So they're like if you ever have a flat, if you ever have a problem, you pretty much just get towed to the closest Walmart and we'll be able to replace it with the same nice make and model.
Dan:Yeah, and.
Charles:I already mart and we'll be able to replace it with the same nice make and model. Yeah, and I already had to take it to them. I I ran over two screws, like within a couple weeks of getting the new tire, of course, and they were both like right in the bottom middle of it and they were going to plug both of them. So I didn't have to because they they do charge you. Even when you get the road hazard warranty if you have to replace a tire, they still charge you the installation and balancing, oh oh. But to repair was completely free. I didn't have to pay anything for that. But they said, if it, if that tire gets another puncture, I guess two's the limit as far as what they can fix.
Charles:And then, after two, they have to replace it.
Dan:So, just out of curiosity, did this happen after Mercury was in retrograde or before, before?
Charles:Okay, yeah, all right. So I can't, uh, I can't blame the stars, I can only blame, okay, some guy doing construction who left, uh, screws on the ground or something, but uh, yeah, so but the car is good. Um, I'm about scheduled for an oil change. Already I put I put about a thousand miles a week on my car, so every month I every five weeks or so six weeks I got to get a uh oil change If I stick to the 5,000 mile rule 5,000.
Dan:Okay, yeah, wow. Five weeks, that's crazy.
Charles:Yeah, I've got a. I got an extended warranty on it that I decided to uh purchase, since you know it's kind of up there in miles and up there in age and the terms of the extended warranty is I've got to got to get it, get an oil change every five miles. So I just get the cheapest oil change that Walmart has to offer every 5,000 miles and there we go, nice. So it just covers the uh, I think it's powertrain only warranty.
Dan:Okay. Maybe the air conditioner too, but hey, listen, if it's forcing you to do some, some good maintenance that I wouldn't do otherwise, then I think you know you might make a little more juice out of this one.
Charles:That, um, yeah, plus the fact that it's A 2011 and not a 1997, and it's Japanese and not German.
Charles:I'm going to ring a little bit more service time Out of it than I've been getting out of my older German cars. As I've said on here and to anybody who will listen, I am not wealthy enough to own an old german car because, man, those things break a lot and they're expensive to fix. I'm sure new ones are great because they come with a warranty and if there's a problem you just take it back and say fix your car right. But the old ones, the 20, 30 year old ones, no, not for me anymore. I've learned my lesson. Okay, only took me two, all right. The guy who let us in, nice guy, not incredibly proficient.
Dan:I could have been faster if I had my kit meanwhile, just so you guys know, this guy took under a minute. I feel it was maybe a minute, minute and a half if I was timing it to open the door.
Charles:Very quick. I'm well under 15 seconds. So Charles is throwing down the gauntlet here with this On a lock like that. I have less sophisticated tools than he had and I'm still way faster. So and I practice occasionally at work and at friends' houses when they're creeping my girlfriend's parents' house last time they had like a holiday gathering I was like, let me see how quick I can get to this door and pop.
Dan:Was it actually locked or he just kind of showed off it was a need, it wasn't like a hey.
Charles:And then I had her brother give it a try too. I was like, hey, try this out, just put this little bar here, push down on it and then feel the pins. And he was able to get it open pretty quickly. I didn't realize it was that easy. Whole blocks are. It's like the TSA. It's about the illusion of security, not about actual security.
Charles:Oh nice, that's good, great, okay, let's, uh, let's talk about the let them theory and, uh, we had one episode where I was pretty, I was pretty excited about this book, and now we're over that. I'm back to back to hating on her some more. Um, chapter nine is titled yes, life isn't fair. Okay, so she's immediately wrong right off the bat. Life is fair, a hundred percent. Your life might not be fair right now, but life is fair. I looked it up and they they estimate that 100 to 120 billion homo sapiens have existed. Okay, so, since we became homo sapiens to now, uh-huh, there have been between 100 and 120 billion of us. Yeah, and here's what I believe about the world, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. Out of those 100 billion people, a very close to an equal number of good things and bad things have happened to those people. If you flip a coin a billion times, it's going to be pretty much pretty close to assuming that both sides are equally weighted, which I know on american currency they're not. But well, my right?
Dan:my point is, you can't even say that there are sides. I think it just things happen and it's our and, and we just deal with those things that happen and we based on our beliefs and our and, and we just deal with those things that happen and we based on our beliefs and our thoughts and everything else like that, right?
Charles:So Right, and so is life fair? My answer is yes, life is fair. In the short term, it may not feel fair, or it may not feel fair to me. I may. I may feel like I've gotten way more bad breaks than Sure, but that's my life. That's not life, right.
Charles:Yeah, life is fair, yeah, because I mean, I would define fair as what happens to, in the broad sense, what has happened to every life across time and across geography. Yeah, whatever that is, that's defined as fair, yeah, and so, however, my life deviates up or down from that Right In the short term, might seem better than fair or worse than fair, but it's still fair. And so, yeah, her title of life isn't fair. It's like, yeah, but it is, and maybe it doesn't feel fair for you right now, and maybe it isn't fair for you right now, but life is fair. Yeah, your life is mid okay but life, yeah, what?
Charles:what happens across everybody over the long term? Yeah, if that doesn't define fair, I don't know what does right, well, that's yeah.
Dan:I think it comes down to trying to change your perception so you realize what you've, you know what is is ideally what things you have control over and what things you don't.
Charles:Right and really her, her assessment of what things you have control over and what you don't is one of the big problems I had with this chap, which you know.
Charles:There are things that happen to you as a result of luck, and there are things that happen to you as a result of luck, and there are things that happened to you.
Charles:I mean, really one could argue everything that has happened to you has been the result of luck, because none of us have chosen our dna, none of us have chosen our parents, none of us have chosen the time or the place that we were born in.
Charles:All those things just happened to us, yeah and and so, yes, there are a list of cards that were dealt and that we can't control, but there are also some cards, like when you're playing gin rummy, you can say, okay, I got this card, it's not going to help me, so I'm going to discard it and pick another card instead and hope that it's better. You still have a choice. Yes, there is some choice, even though you know one could argue about libertarian free will, libertarian, not in the political sense, libertarian as in you know, do you have the ability to have had made a different choice if you could wind the clock back and my attitude on that is definitely no If I chose to wear this shirt this morning, if I could run back the clock of the universe, where every particle was in the exact same position as it was when I chose this shirt.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:I wouldn't be able to say no, I'm going to wear the red shirt instead.
Dan:Right.
Charles:Because that would include every particle of every neuron in my brain. I chose this because I chose it, and if I could go back in time, I couldn't change anything. Right, that's the way I see the universe and the way reality works. Yeah, if you literally ran everything back to, because I don't believe that there's something in my head, ectoplasm or a soul that would give me the ability to, outside of space and time, make other choices.
Dan:I don't believe that that level of magic exists in my head. The way I look at it is you made the appropriate choice with the information you had at the time.
Charles:Right. So if I had the exact same information.
Dan:You're gonna make the same choice at the exact same time. I'm gonna make the exact same choice.
Charles:That makes sense to me, absolutely. So this idea that, oh, I could have done otherwise if I.
Dan:Yeah, that's pointless.
Charles:Yeah, it's. Can quantum leap back into your body with all the knowledge that you currently have? Maybe you could make a different choice.
Dan:So that's exactly right, you can't make a different choice. People thought experimentally. Because you don't have that new information right. It's like hindsight is 20-20. Exactly yeah.
Charles:Monday morning quarterback no-transcript that their best maker. Right again, you do the same thing. Because how could you do anything else? Yeah, there's nothing else in there, right? And even if you believe in the soul, the spirit, the whatever, the great point that I've heard people make is well, you didn't architect that soul or that spirit before you were born. You didn't create that on your own. If it exists, it got handed to you by a God who designed it for you. So it's still not under your control, right? It's still not something that you can tweak and go back in time and change who you are.
Dan:You know, and I think, whether we have control or not, I don't think that's the issue. I think it's just making sure that we I think we crave that feeling that we have some sort of control. Or ability to make decisions Right, Right it's, it's. We're not told by an obvious external force that you have to do this Right. A lot of us.
Charles:Not an obvious one, certainly, right. And so what we can choose is we can make some choices as far as what kind of learning experience we're exposed to, what kind of podcasts we listen to, what kind of books we read and how we're willing to let that affect our future decisions. Right, I think there is some choice to be made with that. And so she mentions some like whether or not you're born into wealth. You don't control that, agreed, you don't control whether you're born rich or not. You can have some control over whether you die rich or not, because that comes down to a lot of the choices you make. Not completely. Again, if you happen to be born a little girl in 14th century Afghanistan, you're probably not going to die wealthy, right, and there's not all the optimal decisions you could make in that setting are still not going to lead to you dying wealthy.
Dan:Mm-hmm.
Charles:You can. You will be born with some natural advantages or disadvantages. How smart you are, how tall you are, how your metabolism functions, the level of hand-eye coordination, a lot of that stuff. You can figure out ways to maximize the strength and minimize the weaknesses, but there's going to be a certain level of those things that you're born with and you're going to be. How much you can improve is going to be limited.
Charles:Opportunities are not equally distributed. We talked about that. You know already with the example of when and where you're born, what family you're born into, what religion you're born into. That's going to certainly have some impacts for how, how much succeeding you can expect in your life. So your starting point can be dramatically different from someone else's. But what I didn't like about this book, this chapter, is some of the tools that she was seemingly giving to people to feel better about their lot in life. She says at one point if there's something about your life that you're unhappy with or is disappointing you, if you can't change it in the next 30 seconds, then it's out of your control.
Dan:Yeah, that's not a good message.
Charles:That's terrible. It's not true, number one. And it's not a good message. That's terrible. Yeah, it's not true. Number one, right. And it's not a good thing to tell people number two yeah, because most significant things that I'd like to improve about my life I am powerless to change in the next 30 seconds.
Dan:It's not a good tool, because it's not being clear about what you can control and what you can't control. It's just, oh, if you can't change it in 30 seconds, well that's, that's.
Charles:Yeah, it's a useless tool at that point, right, I just can't, you're right. Can't you know how I height in 30? The next 30 seconds? Okay, so that I can't change my height in the next 30 years, right. But if you know, if I'm tired of being out of breath when I carry my groceries in from the car, right, I can't change anything about that in the next 30 seconds, nope. But in the next 30 days, maybe in the next 30 months, 30 weeks, absolutely, I can change that, yeah, and so, yeah, I, I don't, really, I don't think she did a good enough job of fleshing out what she meant by this yeah, and giving us a tool to figure out what very quickly what's controllable, what's not controlled.
Charles:Great point and I think I think the problem that most of us and when I say us, I include you and me in this- how dare you?
Charles:Most of us run into is we don't have an objective handle on what's changeable and what's not changeable, or how much time and effort the changeable things will take to actually change. Yeah, I think that. Second point. I thinkony robbins said something about that where and I think I've heard him say it on several occasions something along the lines of people overestimate what they can change in a year and underestimate what they can change in 10 years.
Charles:Right, and he does say that a lot yeah and I think I'm like, yeah, I definitely I do that too. I think, oh, by the end this year I'm going to accomplish all these things, and some of them I get done and many of them I don't. But if you had a plan where you set yourself up for I'm going to work on this for the next 10 years, you could probably get done a lot more. It's just you got to wake up day in and day out and work that plan, and that's where it's hard for a lot of us to do that.
Dan:Absolutely. And then, as soon as I know I'm guilty of this as soon as you start to run into something that's a little bit difficult, if you don't have a really strong why in terms of why you're doing this, you're going to let it stop you and derail you, so you're going to overestimate how much more difficult something is than it actually is.
Charles:And then you end up just not doing anything. Yeah, and you and I also, I mean we've we've had on this with you know, with our own fitness and our and our show, and all the thing is when, when you don't see the improvements fast enough, you think, okay, well, the answer is I've got to change the plan. I got to switch up the plans. I got to. I got to change the workout, I got to change the diet, I got to change the fill in the blank, because you know what was originally a we're going to do, we're going to implement this one year plan. It's like, okay, well, it didn't work after a month. So now I got to change up the plan. Yeah, and that's that's the, that's very human of people to do, or maybe it's it's more primate of humans to do than it is human, because, yeah, the delayed gratification of long-term work and long-term results is harder for some of us than others.
Dan:Yeah, I've heard you should try to fall in love with, instead of the outcome goal, is the process goal of falling in love with, you know, doing that process and being consistent with it.
Dan:But that's not sexy, that's not exciting. So that's my challenge is how do I get excited about getting consistent with something over and over and over again, like where's like the payoff and the reward, in that you have to really love whatever it is that you're doing, I think, in order to get that? You know, like some people, they fall in love with running and they get that runner's high and and you know, they're not necessarily you know yeah, it's not for everybody.
Charles:I've never raised a runner's side that felt as good as running feels bad, right yeah and that's the thing.
Dan:A lot of people it's the same thing. They're not into it, but you know they just they love that process. Yes, they, you know a lot of times the one races and marathons. A lot of them don't, but they love the process of running and so it's easy to be consistent with it. And I think that's the key is really figuring out what you love.
Charles:Yeah, and that is the key.
Dan:But, yeah, how do you find a process that you love compared to that's going to lead you ultimately, as a side effect, the outcome that you're looking for.
Charles:Yeah, that's. That's a challenge. I've yet to find a any of the processes that lead to any of my long-term goals.
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:It's like some. Sometimes I just grin and bear it and just do it anyway. I mean the process of putting one foot in front of the other on a long mountain hike. I don't love that process, but it's like I just for me. All I have to do is love it enough to get halfway out in the middle of nowhere, and then I have no choice but to walk back.
Dan:Yeah, so but along the way, you also make it more enjoyable. You're like listening to books or podcasts or whatever. That is Right. So you're yeah, you're amplifying the enjoyment of the actual process.
Charles:Yeah, but it really yeah. For me it really does come down to what do they call that? Like level two fun or whatever, where it's like you're not going to enjoy this in the moment, you're only going to enjoy this by looking back on it. Like a roller coaster is level one fun where it's fun in the in the moment, but you never look back on it and say, man, I wish I would. I long for the days three years ago when I was on that roller coaster. Nobody does that, right?
Charles:But yeah with me, like, if I'm doing a 20 mile hike, it really does need to do is stay motivated enough to get out 10 miles away from home and then the second half of the hike takes care of itself. Right, I either die in the woods or I walk back and get in my car. There's your motivation, right, exactly like motivation doesn't factor into it, right, it's? Yeah, all you have to do motivation to live. All you have to do is get halfway done with any hike. If you're out and back hike fair. All you have to do is get halfway done and then you'll figure out a way to get the rest of the way done. It's easy. She talks a couple of stories in here. You remember the story about her friend who was renovating the dream home and all the I guess jealousy or I guess she didn't really highlight the jealousy as much.
Charles:She just felt bad about herself that her friend had this amazing house that her kids wanted to hang out in.
Dan:I mean they had queen-sized bunk beds. I was pretty impressive.
Charles:I wish I had that. I wouldn't even know where to go buy a queen-sized bunk bed.
Dan:That's custom baby, I'm sure Exactly. And then I'm like, why not king? Like why were they cheaping out?
Charles:Why would you stop at queen right? The end of the story that I was hoping for, which I didn't really think. Even if she did do this, she probably wouldn't put in the book. What I would have found fulfilling is the end of the story is okay. I sold my first book the five minute or five second or whatever horseshit that is and I made a second roll yes, and I made a bajillion dollars off of it. So I bought my neighbor's house. I bought their dream house and I demolished it. Now it's just an empty lot that I can look at. That's what would have done it for me.
Dan:That's what I would, that would have got all right I like this lady.
Charles:All right, that's where I would have been a little. Now I get mel robbins. She understands me and I understand her. I bought my friend's dream house, I demolished it and I turned it into a lawn and I just go look at it it's one of those where she flicks a cigarette.
Charles:It's just walking away, walking away yeah, blows up, yeah, like a michael bain movie. Yeah, yeah, but no, she didn't do that. She didn't make any reference to building a bigger house or having her friend's house destroyed or anything. Yeah, so I don't get it. Um, here she let's see. 70 of people experience negative self-comparison from social media use. 77, that feels a little low.
Dan:Yeah, I think anybody who gets on social media at some point can feel somewhat I can't think of a time where I've specifically felt a negative self-comparison.
Charles:Maybe I have I don't know, I'm not. It's not ringing a bell, but I'm sure I've, I'm sure I've done that Comparison activates brain stress responses that are similar to physical pain I don't know about that I mean, I don't remember.
Charles:I again, I don't remember getting that upset by. I guess it could. I mean, I guess if you're they have something, you have a really strong reaction. So I don't know, I'm trying to find another piece of this chapter that really resonated with me or made me angry. I don't know. I'm trying to find another piece of this chapter that really resonated with me or made me angry, I don't know. I we talked about it before we started recording the your life yes, life isn't fair chapter. And the next chapter, how to make comparison to your teacher it feels like they're they're opposite is really getting the shitty end of the stick from her mom in this book. Mm-hmm. The stuff she says about her daughter that I think she thinks is being helpful or being kind is really not.
Dan:I'd be curious to hear that conversation behind the scenes when they're writing this book between the two of them about that information.
Charles:I mean the question is, is the daughter even bringing up to her mother like, hey, like, does the daughter realize that this is a shitty way to be talked about in a book that's going to be read by hundreds of thousands of people? And if she does realize it, is she saying something to her mother about it? I mean, yeah, it's not my job to say mel robbins did her daughter dirty, but it kind of is my job to say that because I would not appreciate being talked about the way that she talks about her oldest daughter well, I think what, yeah, to kind of highlight what you're talking about is the comparison between her two daughters.
Charles:Yeah, kendall and sawyer. So here's the older one, kendall's a younger one. Kendall is I mean in quote-unquote better shape. However, mel decides to define that uh has a beautiful singing voice, is more athletic, has a fast metabolism, and Sawyer doesn't have those things. And, as Mel describes it, sawyer's constantly complaining or compares, comparing herself to her younger sister and feeling awful about it. And the way Mel Robbins is like yeah, sawyer got a bad hand of cards dealt to her, I was like we're making that determination based on these four areas that you've cited in the book, that her set of cards or her hand of cards is not as good. Yeah, it's like there's got to be things about this girl that are positive that you're not talking about in this book and you're just making a generalization that, yeah, she didn't get as good of a life as your younger daughter because your younger daughter is skinnier.
Dan:Essentially, yes, there's a nicer body by current standards the feeling that I got was these were things that were important to sawyer, because she was the one saying I don't fit in any of kendall's clothes. She fits in all of mine. And it sounds like there might have been some sort of singing you know issue or something, whatever it is. But it sounds like, yeah, those cards are the ones that were important to Sawyer, even though she might be smarter, funnier, more successful with her career, whatever that is. But maybe that's just not as important to her as those other four cards. I don't know, yeah, but not as important to her as those other four cards. I don't know, yeah, but because we all have.
Dan:We all have the things that like you do right that are like well, this is important to me and you're like but you're this and you're that and you're done. And you're just like, well, yeah, okay, and ironically it's probably because you know, those things are the things that come easy to us, so, for whatever reason, we kind of disvalue them yeah, I, I just feel like having value having your mom talk about it in those terms, though it has.
Charles:Just, I mean, if I had a daughter that had concerns about her athletic ability, her weight, her metabolism, her singing voice, you know, yes, I would be honest with her about yeah, okay, you're gonna you going to have to work harder at those things than your sister does, or harder than you feel is fair for you to have to work if you want the results that your sister had and I think that's the part that was missing out of this chapter was that you can change those things and but you need to work.
Dan:you might need to work harder than what you see your sister working if she didn't really get into right the let me part of this whole.
Charles:yeah, and that's an area and that feels unfair. I mean the to. If you want the same thing, that somebody else has, making peace with the fact that you'll have to work harder for it than they do. Yes, that does feel unfair in the moment and I get that. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you can't do it and that doesn't mean that it might not be worth doing, but it also doesn't mean you're a better or worse person than them either, and that's the just the language that she used talking about Sawyer getting dealt a worse hand, like, listen, when it comes to these specific concerns that you have, yes, you don't have the natural ability that your sister was born, so you're going to have to work harder to have things that are comparable to her. Yeah, and yeah, I get that doesn't feel great, but that's okay and those may not be things that you need.
Charles:Anyway, the way you're thinking about what your life would be like if you had her metabolism or her singing voice, there's a good chance that you don't really have a good handle on that. You feel like your life would be better if you were skinnier and a better singer, but what are the things that you're hoping that that life of a better singer would actually deliver for you. Like what are the feelings that you think you would have if you could sing like your sister sing? Let's talk about what those things are and let's talk about how you get those things or those feelings without having to kill yourself, to go to the voice lessons or starving yourself or whatever. It's. Just there seems to be, yeah, a lot of root causes that mel robbins just either doesn't perceive of or doesn't spend time talking about in this book, like okay, that's, that's the way your life is right now, but why is your life that way and why does it matter to you? Why does that feel like lacking?
Dan:Yeah.
Charles:So yeah, with with these two chapters nine and 10, and then also an 11 and 12, which we talked about a little bit off air as well. She's a smart lady, but it feels to me like she's just missing the point on a lot of stuff for somebody who is selling this many books and influencing this many people. I'm picking up on a lot of areas where I feel like she's clueless.
Dan:Yeah, I think she starts to get into people taking responsibility for their position in the next chapter a little bit in terms of how to make comparison, your teacher right. So I think the my, my belief was that, you know, chapter nine is really to kind of meet people where they are, where they're feeling like powerless, that life is unfair. And then my, the way I'm thinking about it is, once she has their attention in the next chapter, she says okay, take some of that energy, that anger, that jealousy, whatever that is, and start to try to do something with it.
Charles:Yeah, and I don't feel like I mean in chapter 10, I feel like she talked about jealousy in way more positive terms than it deserves to be talked about.
Charles:I mean, I think that there is a negative connotation to jealousy, that it's just bad, and she was talking about it being a motive. It was like there's nothing wrong with noticing the difference between who you are and who someone else is. There's nothing wrong noticing what they have and what you don't have, but just the the language of jealousy that she's using just does not feel helpful to me.
Dan:Yeah, so I think Brene Brown talked about the difference between jealousy and envy and, to be honest with you, I forget exactly what the nuance is.
Charles:Let's see. Jealousy and envy are often used interchangeably in casual speech, but refer to distinct emotional experience. Envy is the painful feeling you get when someone else has something that you want. Let's see what, uh what jealousy.
Dan:Jealousy is the fear that something you already have will be taken away oh, so she's talking about envy here, not even jealousy, because what, how else? What's gonna be taken away from you? Yes, other than the fear that because so-and-so did something before you did. So I think she was talking about somebody had an interior design business, and I don't know if that was this chapter or the next one. I think you're might be right, and she was talking about you know, putting it out online and right before she did oh, the crappy website.
Charles:Compared to the other person who just got started, they had a better website.
Dan:Exactly, and it's because she was like dragging her feet, never actually did the website Right, and so now she was yeah, that's definitely envy.
Charles:That's not jealousy. Jealousy is yeah. And in most cases we think of jealousy when it comes to a relationship or a partner. I've got this partner or this relationship and I'm worried that somebody else is gonna take it away from me or I'm going to lose it. So I'm jealous, yeah, when I see my partner talking to some guy at work or something.
Dan:Yeah, part of that too was I think it was a woman in her neighborhood and so all the neighbors were talking about it. So I'm just wondering if that teeters on some jealousy there because thinking, oh hey, I'm losing these contacts, I'm not going to have this network of people referring me because now she did it before I did, kind of thing yeah so, but the more I think about it, the less jealousy really applies in that case or in the rest of this chapter.
Charles:Like, yeah, jealousy is a motivator is like all jealous based on this.
Dan:All jealousy can be is I've got something and I'm afraid I'm going to lose it so what I think a lot of us do is we become, we start out envious and then that turns into jealousy, because I sometimes I know I feel, hey, oh, this person did this amazing thing. Well, it's already been done before, so so why bother? Kind of thing. And to me that's like it's a jealousy, almost like all right, well, it's been taken away from me because even though in reality that's not the case and I never had it in my mind, it's there's a limited supply of it and this other person did it first, and now there's nothing left for me.
Charles:Yeah, and.
Dan:Or it's going to be more difficult for me.
Charles:Yeah, it's. It's a weird word game trying to spin jealousy or envy into a positive motivation to get off your butt and do something. I just don't. I don't see how she can really pull that off with people. It's like I would say step one is you need to turn your back on both jealousy and envy before you can really pull that off with people. It's like I would say step one is you need to turn your back on both jealousy and envy before you can do anything positive for yourself or anybody else. Yeah, I mean, I find you know when. Look, I don't have any aspirations to become a model or an NBA basketball player, anything that I want to accomplish in life.
Charles:I've got the natural tools and ability to pull off, and so you know I don't feel like I'm banging my head against my whatever my ceiling is for my ability to be a fill in the blank Again, I'm never going to, no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to make it to the NBA. And no matter how hard I work, no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to make it to the NBA. And no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to probably become, you know, a fashion model or a physical fitness influencer. It's just not. It's just none of the cards.
Charles:But the things I do want to do, I can do, and I find the reason that I'm not already doing those things is one of two things either I don't know enough or I don't care enough. And I really think, for most people, the things you want out of life, you don't have them because you don't know enough or you don't care enough, and those are some pretty easy levers to adjust if you want to. Right, I mean, the caring about it is probably the harder of the two, because that factors into motivation, inspiration, adherence, all those things that you know you and I talk about all the time, that are. You can't just snap your fingers and decide to adhere to the plan you've made for yourself, whether that's your professional development in your career or your health and fitness goals, or you're wanting how much money you wanted to save for your retirement. You can't just very easily wake up one day and say I am going to a hundred percent adhere to this plan that I came up with, because it's hard to do that. But the knowledge part is a lot easier, I find. If you care enough, you'll find the knowledge that you need to to succeed.
Charles:And so really, the, the motivation, inspiration, the you know getting doing the work to figure out what your why is and then deciding, you know not tricking yourself into thinking you care about something enough to actually do the hard work that it takes to get that thing done, which you know I I run into that myself all the time, like there are things that I think matter enough to me to do the hard work to get it done, yeah. But then I get in the middle of it it was like, oh, this is a little bit more work than this is more work. The workout weighs the motivation or the inspiration, or the commitment, or whatever it's like. It's like, yeah, I, I enjoy talking about wanting to do this and I enjoy talking about wanting to have this final result, but waking up and doing the things that gets it for me on days that I don't feel like it. I don't care that much, I care slightly less than that.
Dan:Yeah, I think that's where it's good to have some sort of outside advice in some form, because I know for me I go to, and you do this too is, if I'm not doing it this way, I'm never going to get there. So, instead of trying to make it easier and continuing on doing it, we'd just be like we'd kind of wipe our hands where they'd be like well, I'm never going to get there because I feel like this is the only way to get there.
Dan:Right, yeah, and this is my only option, and sometimes you need that outside advice to say no, no, no, no, it can be done. Doing it this way, that way or in an easier way than what you're currently doing, it Right. And the other part is you've got to believe that device. You got to believe that they're actually, you know that they're knowledgeable, that they're giving you actual good information. So I think a lot of times for myself anyway, that's all I don't do, that I am rigid with the things that I'm doing and thinking times for myself, anyway, that's all I don't do, that I am rigid with the things that I'm doing and thinking, okay, well, why bother if it's, if it's not, if I'm not working out five days a week, I'm never going to get in the shape that I want to get into, and that's that's.
Dan:Until I heard Dr Mike talking about it on podcasts. Whatever you know three or four times, you know and you'll absolutely get there. And whatever you know three or four times, you know and you'll absolutely get there. And then, once you hear like an expert talking about it, you're like, okay, I can dial it back and then stay more consistent with it and actually start to enjoy this a little bit more, or I'm at least willing to experiment and give that a shot for a while, because this person that I respect, with some information that he's got, says here's another way of approaching it.
Charles:When it comes to certain things about saving money or progressing in your career or improving your health and fitness, when you're an absolute novice and you're just starting out, you can just live by principles and see huge benefit right off the bat. But then when you get a little bit more sophisticated and you're trying to get a little bit more dialed in and getting uncommon results like you're trying to, you know, get a portfolio balance or a body that most people never achieve then you know you do have to start putting in that you put in 20% of the work to get 80% of the results, but then if you want that other 20%, you got to do 80% of the work. And that's where a lot of people, myself included, will just check out and say okay, because there's things, there's trade-offs, good enough.
Dan:Right, cause there's trade-offs, trading off things that you really love and enjoy and spend time doing for, for taking up the extra effort of whatever that is you're trying to accomplish.
Charles:Yeah, yeah, effort of whatever that is you're trying to accomplish, yeah, yeah, to get those uncommon results. You're going to have to put an uncommon effort where to get common results, common efforts enough, and for some people that's good enough. I mean, if I was, I've been 40, 50 pounds heavier than I am right now, and to get down to where I am now in the moment, I thought, boy, this is hard, this is difficult, and now I'm trying to drop 10 more pounds. It's like, oh no, I didn't realize how easy the last 40 was compared to the next 10.
Dan:But your previous experience was not anything difficult.
Charles:No, you were eating everything you enjoyed. Right In the moment it felt difficult, but now looking back I was like, oh, that was easy. Yes, what am I talking about?
Dan:If I knew then what I know.
Charles:Getting up and going for an hour long walk in the morning and then just not eating sugar or grain felt like I was torturing myself back then. But now it's like oh, that was, that was easy, that was nothing. Those are things I could just flip a switch and do whenever I want to now, right. But it doesn't really make much of a difference to me now because I don't have as much work to do, right? So that's where we so envy is I want something other people have.
Charles:Jealousy is I have things that I'm scared are going to get taken away. And again, I don't see. I don't see a way that spending your time in either of those States is going to prompt you to make your life better or prompt you to be nice to be around either. Yeah, so yeah, I find I find her her language about uh, I mean comparison. I'm okay with the word comparison and I'm okay with the idea that you can use comparison to torture yourself or you can use comparison to teach yourself. A hundred percent Love that. But when she uses the word jealousy in the way that she uses it, I just I don't see it.
Dan:Yeah, I think the issue too is I don't think she offers enough support in terms of getting us to change those feelings of envy and jealousy into comparison as a motivating teaching tool, right? So basically, one of the things she said is you're not competing against other people in life. You're playing with them in life and look at them as your teacher, right? So that when they're doing something better than you, don't look at it as being envious or jealous but say hey, this person figured something out before me and now I can learn from that and that can be a shortcut for you to get to where you want to be. But she doesn't really get into how to make that mind shift and keep it consistent enough so that you're willing to continue taking action and follow through.
Charles:Yeah, I think the problem that a lot of people run into is thinking that, oh well, the thing I want to do, there's too many people doing it and so I missed my chance. I missed my opportunity and it's like, in reality, most of the people that are doing the thing you want to do you've never seen or heard of because they suck, and most of the people doing the thing you want to do are failing at it. Most of the people doing the thing you want to do are failing at it. There, there are slots available at the top and new slots can be added all the time. You know this idea. There's already a hundred people that are a arts and crafts influencer on instagram.
Charles:So I missed my chance. It's like you didn't. If you're good at it and you stick to it and you know and you care at a level other people don't care about yeah, and you learn care at a level other people don't care about. Yeah, and you learn things at a level other people aren't learning and you're consistent and you stick with it, then yeah, you can. You can do that thing that other people are already doing and you don't have to pull one of them down to give you a spot.
Dan:The other thing too is you are using your reticular activating system where you are looking for things that you tell yourself are important If you want to be X like underwater basket weaver type person, and you're going to be searching for other big named underwater basket weavers who have been doing this for years and years and years.
Dan:So you're literally surrounding yourself and populating all the things around you, or most things around you with this, with these people who are already where you want to be. So now your perspective is hey, there's so many people out there doing that Meanwhile people who are, like, casually looking for somebody in underwater basket weaving. They don't see them all over the place and they just might run into you first, right, and like the way you resonate with them, your message, the way you speak, all of those things. So you are really operating from a perspective of where you are thinking. Yeah, there are so many of these people because that's what's important to you, you and your. The all the algorithms on social media and online, they all you know they track you between the cookies and everything else, and they will give you the information that you're searching for. So, yes, I'm sure you're searching for things related to underwater basket weaving, but so you're now surrounded in thinking hey, it's everywhere, it's been done, there's no place for me.
Charles:Yeah, and one of the points that she makes in the, as far as the practical applications that she discusses, is look at other people in the field that you want to succeed in and look at it with a more critical eye of, I mean, even somebody who's really good. It's still possible to look at something they've done and think I could have done that a little bit different and I think it might've been better, and it's quite possible that you're right about that.
Dan:Like and now, that's your flavor right.
Charles:Exactly, that's your take, that's your difference. You figure out. Oh okay, if I was, if I was doing something like this, I would do it a little bit different, and I guarantee there's some people out there that your way would be would resonate with more than their way. Yeah, and so just put yourself out there and try it, and the celebrating progress is the tough part too, where you know it's, it's hard to do. That. If I had it to do over again, I do the exact same thing, cause I know that most of the time, making that, taking that choice and making that leap will work out for me. Even though it didn't work out this time, I still made the right call, and that's hard to, that's hard to remember in the immediate aftermath of a less than optimal result yeah, we're pre-wired to remember the stings more than the victories.
Charles:So yeah, yeah and we're more pre-wired to to unfairly wait the recent past as opposed to all of our other life experience, and they'd be telling us something else.
Dan:Yeah, I like it.
Charles:The thing that just happens feels so much more real to me than everything else I've learned up to this point.
Dan:That's a good point yeah. That's going to have. That's going to be more definitely be weighted more.
Charles:Yeah, but like you said, we and we tend to do that more with the losses than the wins, like you know, even if we just had a big success in our recent past. Yeah, it worked out this time, but what about next time?
Dan:Another reason to track things and and and look be able to look back.
Charles:Yeah, even if that track is just journaling. Yeah, all right, I think we can stop there. So chapters nine and 10, not a big fan, and I stop there. So chapters 9 and 10 not a big fan, and I listened to 10 and 11 on the way, or no, 11 and 12 on the way over, where we'll discuss that next time about, um, adult friendships and why they come and go or why they may crest and wane, and uh, yeah, I got a lot to say about her ideas when it comes to friendships. Okay, if you knew her personally, do you think you'd be friends with her? Probably Not me, man. Yeah, I would resist the urge to talk crap about her behind her back, I think, cause I generally I try not to do that about people. Yeah, but I would just be like man this oh, you're hanging out with Melonite. You guys have fun, I'm out, no thanks.
Dan:I like her because she she gets to the psychology of a lot of things and tries to figure out, like, why people do things. So it'd be interesting conversation, except for herself.
Charles:She talks about herself, she does. I think she when she talks about the way that she works I don't know, man, she strikes me as, again, she's a smart person and I think there are good things in this book, there's things to learn. But, man, on my list of people that are just exhausting to be around, the people who are not self-aware but think they are, are really close to the top of that list and that's the category I put her in. She thinks she's self-aware but think they are, are really close to the top of that list and that's the category I put her in. She thinks she's self-aware but she is not. The stuff coming out of her mouth and her, her not knowing what she sounds like to at least me. I mean, maybe other people don't don't see it and maybe that's because I'm not self-aware, but some of the stuff she says it, but some of the stuff she says it just grades on me. It's like you're cause I find that she is.
Charles:She's conflicting herself a lot in this book where she's talking about the way she works and the way the world works, and then it's like, yeah, but the way you're telling people to handle that situation goes exactly against what you're what you're saying a chapter ago and it's driving me crazy. So I don't know. We'll see, We'll see how uh, I know how 11 and 12 go. We'll see how the chapters after that go. Maybe she'll win me back again, Cause we'll see. It was, was it seven, that I really liked? I think it was seven and eight that I I liked.
Charles:Maybe, and nine and 10, she lost me again. So we'll see what's next. All we'll see what's next, all right, thanks, dan. We'll talk to you next time, all right, thanks so much for sticking with us for the entire episode. We certainly appreciate it. Next time We'll continue our series on the let them theory as we dive into chapters 11 and 12, which will include exploring the complexities of adult friendship and why some of them naturally fade until next time.
.jpg)