Strong Bad Men, Weak Good Men, and the Rare Third Option

In this episode, Charles and Dan unpack chapters four, five, and six of The Masculine in Relationship — and explore why so many men fall into the trap of becoming either strong-but-destructive or nice-but-ineffective. They dig into what it actually takes to embody the rare third option: a strong good man who leads with clarity, steadiness, emotional presence, and purpose.

The conversation moves through the core foundations of masculine development: how purpose shapes direction, why reactivity erodes trust, what emotional safety really requires, and how structure frees the feminine to relax rather than brace. Charles and Dan get personal about their own patterns, the work men often avoid, and the uncomfortable moments that reveal whether you’re reacting from old wounds or responding from grounded awareness.

If you’ve ever wondered why certain dynamics repeat in your relationships — or what women are actually looking for when they say they want a man who “can lead” — this episode gives you the clarity, context, and challenge you need to step into a more integrated masculine expression.

Chapters

• 2:36 Reclaiming Purpose and Direction
• 7:07 Internal Work: Responding vs. Reacting
• 14:41 The 100 Beats Per Minute Threshold
• 18:02 Providing Structure and Taking the Lead
• 25:01 The Danger of Emotional Unavailability
• 33:59 Masculine Archetypes: Alpha Dog, Asshole, Nice Guy
• 34:51 The Strong Man
• 38:09 Understanding Feminine Energy and Polarity

Transcript

Charles (00:00)
Women want a strong good man. And if they can't find one, they will settle for a strong bad man or a weak good man. But what they want is a strong good man. And there's like almost none of those out there. Yeah. So they find themselves, okay, well, I want a strong man, but there aren't any strong men. I want a strong good man, but there aren't any strong good men. So now I have to decide, do I settle for a strong bad guy or do I settle for a weak good guy? And I mean...

The goal should be for all guys, I want to be strong and I want to be good. And then you'll have options for the best women that are out there. But welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. Today, Dan and I are continuing our exploration of the masculine in relationship as we move into chapters four, five, and six, some of the most foundational material in the entire book. These chapters dig into purpose, direction,

emotional regulation and the difference between reacting from old wounds and responding from a grounded masculine core. We talk about the work it takes to develop clarity, the discomfort of confronting your own patterns, what women actually experience when men haven't done that work, and why structure, safety, and presence matter so much more than performance. This conversation gets personal, it gets practical, and it gets honest about the gap between who we've been and who we're trying to become as men, as partners, and as humans.

you want to go deeper into these ideas or catch any past episodes, visit mindfullymasculine.com. Thanks and enjoy. ⁓

Dan (01:35)
I'm doing great.

Charles (01:37)
⁓ made it through Halloween as have I, it's November 7th now, so that was last week. And already thinking about what I'm going to do next year as far as a costume. I wish my, my double door costume this year, I was very happy with it. I, I'm, I'm part of me was tempted to do it again, but you know, I'm like, I'm like a girl who can't wear the same, you know, cocktail dress out twice because of the pressure I put on myself. And so, ⁓ I am, I've got some ideas for next year, but we'll also have to see what the, ⁓

Dan (02:00)
I feel you.

Charles (02:07)
popular culture brings us over the next year. Okay. We're November now, which is my favorite month, not just because it's my birthday month, but because I, we finally get some decent weather. We've got holidays coming up. We see things November, you see things decorated for fall and you get to see things decorated for Christmas. Yeah. I'm excited. Let's get into the text of our book. We're studying the masculine relate the masculine in relationship by GS young blood.

Dan (02:09)
So remaining open at this point.

Charles (02:36)
And for this episode, we're going to discuss the themes of chapters four, five and six. The first one starts with the idea of reclaiming purpose and direction. And he kind of gets into why a man having a purpose is so important and what is and is not a purpose. For example, if your purpose is making regional director at your company, that's not really.

A purpose that's that's kind of a goal and that's a career goal But I think he's talking about something a little bit bigger picture than that You know I want to have some impact that you want to have on the world whether that is something you do with your family something you do with your vocation ideally something you do with both you got to have something that you're about so that You know, I think every man should have an elevator pitch when somebody says what is it that? What is it you're into? What is it that you're about? You should have an answer for that. I would say I do not

Yeah, they're at a lot of I could tell you that I'm into. There I can tell you that I like. are things that I could tell you, um, ways that I think the world should change and, and what role I would like to have in that. But I don't have anything. If somebody said, Hey Charles, what are you about? I don't think I've got a good answer. And I should probably come up with one.

Dan (03:57)
Yeah, you'd need a tall building to answer that.

Charles (04:00)
or just a very slow elevator or the tower of terror where it goes up and down

Dan (04:05)
But as I'm getting older, I realize I'm getting a little bit more refined. am figuring it out as we kind of go along and think about and read these books and think through these things for ourselves.

Charles (04:16)
Yeah. And one of the reasons that he suggests needing that is if you do not have a purpose or a direction, then you're going to unintentionally ask your partner to supply it for you ⁓ or just kind of accept hers for what she thinks your purpose should be. And then neither of you are going to be happy because no person wants that level of responsibility for another adult and no adult wants that to be chosen for them. Yeah. So, ⁓

That is, that is something that, ⁓ I think this book can motivate all of us to think about, is, you know, have, have an aim and have a direction and have a purpose that you're trying to affect in your life and in the world. Otherwise you're just going to be somebody who kind of drifts along. Even if you do experience victories in your profession or in your family life, you kind of need a theme to tie it all together. So you know what you can.

every big decision you come across in life, have to have some kind of a measuring stick to put up against it so you know what's the difference between a good decision and a bad decision.

Dan (05:26)
Sure. Yeah. And I think a lot of us are afraid to really think through it. We've been so conditioned to be sensitive to the tribe, to other human beings, that we don't want to upset anybody. So, God forbid we think or say something of our, know, and want to do something for ourselves. You know, a lot of times we've been programmed that that is being selfish, that you aren't thinking of others or that you might offend somebody in that regard. And so...

And I'm speaking for myself. A lot of times I've kind of held back on putting out, putting out there to the world and just being bold and even, you know, ⁓ casual conversation about, you know, what your purpose is and what do you want to do? I find myself sometimes, you know, kind of holding back a little bit from that. that's not doing anybody any, you know, any, any, any good. It's, your, your disservice to yourself and other people, because you're also holding back the value that you can provide.

Charles (06:25)
Right. By doing that. Yeah, because you're not fitting your own mask first. As they say on airlines, right? You gotta get your own mask on first before you can help out anybody else.

Dan (06:34)
He's

gonna get on the plane first because these days, I don't know.

Charles (06:38)
Hey,

eat that, babe. Yeah. You gotta not cancel your flight. Ugh, alright. Yeah, I had coffee with Renata this week. was in town and both her husband and her mom both ran into issues with planes. no. Because, yeah, both- Yeah, I was here in New York, yeah. Fuck. Yeah, exactly. So, which is where my trip's gonna be, where your trip's gonna be. This is a great time for travel to the Northeast, except in the event of a government shutdown. Right. So.

Dan (06:40)
We might not make it to the mask.

between here and New York.

Charles (07:07)
Again, I've got, I've got just over a month before mine. So hopefully people will start to lose their taste for the ongoing shutdown and it'll be solved before I have to deal with it. And for your case, hope it's helpful for you too. I'll bring a book. He makes a great case that the work of masculine purpose and masculine direction is internal work first. You have to, you don't get to pretend or act masculine.

Because while you can do that very short amount of time, it's going to become clear very quickly to the people around you that, you read a book that's teaching you how to pretend to be masculine. And when things are going easy, it's pretty easy to pretend to be a man. Yeah. When things get tough, all of your, all of your flaws are going to bubble up to the surface. And so whatever, whenever unaddressed issues you have, you're going to be, those are going to be exposed when you're, you know,

dealing with an illness, job loss, or even just, you know, a fight with your significant other, you're going to, if there's stuff inside that hasn't been resolved, you're going to be triggered, which as we talked about before, all that means is you're experiencing in the present day, even though it's not currently happening to you. Even though it happened in the past, you're feeling it today. When you get triggered during a moment of conflict with your romantic partner,

and you start reacting to stuff that happened to you a long time ago, that's going to do very little to help you and your partner get through that conflict in a healthy way.

Dan (08:39)
Yeah, it's important to work on that stuff and not think you can continue to cover it up. It's not comfortable to work on it and he wants to do it and it's not enjoyable, but it's worth it because it's going to come out whether you want it to or not, no matter how good you think you are at covering it up. You're you're you're not like, right. And especially most women have a heightened sense of.

emotions and people's state of being. So they're gonna be able to pick up on that a lot more easily than a man would, but also than you would, yourself. Like a lot of times, we don't notice the things that we, because we do them all the time, it's not obvious to us. To other people, it's completely obvious, and maybe, you most of our lives, people have been nice to you and haven't called you out on your shit, and you don't even realize, you think, you you're this master performer.

Right? Where you're covering up all of your, all the trauma from your childhood. But meanwhile, it's pretty obvious to everybody else, but like they don't want to trigger you. They don't, they want to say anything. They don't want to upset you because they like you.

Charles (09:44)
because they might go like, you're this far from a meltdown. They don't even want to the thing that pushes you over.

Dan (09:49)
Right, guys like, you know, work on this stuff. mean, even if you think you're healthy, there's stuff that you could work on. Absolutely. And I guess the question is just trying to figure out what that stuff is, right? Like, how's the best way do you think to figure out, Hey, what do I need to work on? Like, I mean,

Charles (10:08)
I mean, you gotta have friends. would say ideally male friends that you can go to and say, okay, listen, you you hung out with me. We've been on double dates. You've seen me and you've heard me talk about my relationships. Where, where are the holes in my game that I need to work on? Where are the deficiencies where, you know, I may not be coming across the way that I'd like to be. And in addition to that, you can go to your coach, your therapist and say, Hey, I'm

You know, I know, I know nobody has a perfect childhood. Well, I think mine was pretty good. I'm still, I'm sure there are still some skills that I, didn't get into my toolbox that I should have, but I don't know exactly what they are. And a professional will be able to ask the right questions to help you figure out where those, where those weaknesses might be. And then, yeah, you gotta, you gotta decide, okay, well, do I want to work on being better at pretending they're not there? Or do I want to actually deal with making those weaknesses, if not go away, certainly mitigate them.

have some strategies. And one of the biggest things he talks about leading into the next chapter is being somebody who responds versus somebody who reacts. And, you know, I can look back at my relationships and the ones that I didn't get the results out of them that I wanted to. And the biggest reason was because I spent so much time in reactivity instead of being responsive to my partner.

Dan (11:30)
So how do you define the difference between responding and reacting?

Charles (11:33)
I think one's conscious and one's unconscious. That'd be the biggest thing for me, where one is, you know, when you're responsive, you can in the moment say, okay, here's what it seems like she's feeling. Here's what it seems like I'm feeling in response to that. Here's where this could go right. Here's where this could go wrong. And just kind of having that.

that mindfulness in the moment of understanding what's going on with you and in your mind and in your body and what you're feeling, what you're thinking, why you're feeling and thinking those things instead of just going into, know, I feel threatened and I have to, I have to react to that threat right now. Yeah. Because, you know, that's part of the challenge of modern life is all these times that we, we get into this position where we feel like we're, we're threatened.

in some way where we're actually not threatened. Our life is not at stake. We're not at risk of being kicked out of our tribe, but you know, we get an email or a text or a phone call or a glance from, you know, somebody in our life where it puts us into that mode where it's like, I'll be threatened right now and I have to react to this.

Dan (12:40)
Yeah. So what I'm picking up from that is it's spend a little bit more time thinking about it before reacting to it, before saying something, before doing something. And see, this is where it gets tricky for me is a lot of times I've been told I spend too much time in my head thinking over thinking things, but yet at the same time, we're supposed to be mindful. We're supposed to think through things before we act. And it's really trying to like, for me, it's trying to figure out where that balance is, where

You know, it's the Goldilocks, right? It's like, okay, how much is good enough or how much is appropriate and how much is doing me a disservice now because I'm like building up my anxiety, making assumptions. I'm thinking that this person is thinking or doing these things that they aren't really doing or, you know, they are doing, but are they doing that? I don't have enough information. now, right. So that's where this practice really comes in, in terms of figuring out

what to focus on and then how to react after an appropriate amount of time of thinking things through, right. And not just staying in your head the whole time. Tony Robbins has a thing. says, if you stay in your head, you're dead. Right. So, yeah.

Charles (13:53)
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think part of it, a big part of it comes in with spending your time in preparation for how you're going to deal with the situation before you're in the situation. You can't, you can't really do that kind of prep work while you're in the middle of anything that's going to get your pulse over a hundred beats minute, right? Yeah. Well, cause that, by that time it's too late. By that time you're relying on the skills and instincts that you've built into yourself or that you've

Dan (14:03)
Mmm, okay.

Charles (14:20)
failed to build into yourself. you, if you haven't spent time thinking about and working through how do I deal with conflict? How do I deal with chaos? How do I deal with the unexpected? Then when the chaos and the conflict of the unexpected happened to you, then you're just going to default back to whatever it is you saw modeled or you got trained into you when you were a kid.

Dan (14:41)
Remind everybody again what it is at that 100 beats per minute. What is that again?

Charles (14:47)
think it was from the Gottmans, we got that. That's right, that sounds right. His book on the man's guide to women that basically once your heart rate gets over 100 beats per minute, your body is going to be in a reactive state where the front part of your brain that's more developed and more calm and more in control of the logic of your situation, it's very hard to tap into that when your body...

Physiologically, you've been activated. So that's why it's important to develop those skills when your body's not activated so that when it is, you can rely on them instead of just going into predator prey mode.

Dan (15:27)
sprint isn't that fast. That's like a brisk walk basically to get you up there.

Charles (15:29)
It's

Yeah, so if, ⁓ yeah, if your partner, you know, comes home from work and hits you with a, wait, I thought you were going to take care of this today. You could be at a hundred like that. It doesn't take a whole lot to get there. your, your ability to respond is going to be impacted if you haven't come up with some sort of a program to help you through that.

Dan (15:55)
to think almost right like so if your brain gets cut off it's you just you just do right because you've just done it so many times and you do the right thing so right

Charles (16:05)
Yeah. And really, as far as I know, practice is the only way to get ready for that so that when it happens.

Dan (16:11)
So how are we going to do this? just going to yell at me? this, this, how does this, how does that work? Like in practice? I I wonder if there's anything like.

Charles (16:20)
I think mindfulness meditation is one of the best tools for it because if you can discipline your mind to paying attention in a moment to exactly what you want to pay attention to and not other things then and it really it's not just about I'm going to focus on this one thing and I'm not going to be distracted. The skill you gain with mindfulness meditation is when I am distracted, I'm going to be able to shift back to the thing that I want to focus on extremely quickly.

And I want to, and I'm going to be able to do it a lot of times. So, you know, the world is going to keep giving you input that is going to distract you from what you want to focus on, but the better you get at returning your focus to what you've decided is important, the faster you'll be able to respond instead of react to whatever it is that you're dealing with.

Dan (17:05)
I think physically mindfulness meditation has actually shown to lower anxiety levels, even when you're not doing the mindfulness. So if you think of it like, you know, a cup of tea, right? If we're operating with, you know, only this much room at the cup, at the top of the cup of tea and it's all already almost full. And I think I'm seeing this from Dr. Julie, basically, you're, you know, you're walking around with almost a full cup of tea when somebody pours a little bit extra in there because they're, stressing you out. They yell at you.

It overflows much easier where if you lower your steady state, your, your rate of, your heart rate, how much stress you're dealing with, and you've got a quarter cup of, of tea, right? You can pour a lot more in there. You can handle a lot more. yeah, but I also like the, coming back, the practicing of being pulled away and then the realization and then coming back. That's absolutely a great muscle to have, you know, walking around day to day as well.

Charles (18:02)
So

the first sort of leg in his, in his blueprint here is finding yourself in a position of responding rather than reacting. The second one is providing structure for the people around you. Derection and clarity, giving form and reliability to situations so others can just relax and trust that you, know, the thing that they're dealing with is going to be handled. And I mean, I see this in the dating world. I see this constantly where every girl that I talk to that I end up going on a date with.

All they want is for a guy to say, meet me at this restaurant at this time on this day. And then afterward we'll go for a walk and we'll get some ice cream. And all they have to do is just show up and take in the experience. I've not yet. I mean, I'm sure there are girls out there, but I've not yet met with a girl or gone on a date with a girl who was like, well, let's figure this out by committee. Yeah. We'll, we'll spend a few hours with me saying.

What you want to do? I don't care. What do you want to do? I don't care. What do you want to do? What kind of food do you want? I don't care. I'm up for anything. What do you want? I like everything too. Like there may be girls that are into it.

Dan (19:06)
anxious

just listening to that conversation with yourself.

Charles (19:08)
They, yeah, those, girls don't want to, I'm not interacting with girls like that where they, want to just, I think go back and forth and figure out by consensus how we should spend the evening.

Dan (19:21)
mean, a good rule of thumb here is how can you make her life easier?

Charles (19:26)
Yikes.

Dan (19:28)
In little ways, it doesn't take much.

Charles (19:29)
specifically say the opposite to me along the lines of I Spend all day every day making decisions for co-workers that should be adults who can handle things but I have to step in and act like the mom because nobody can just get the stuff done they need to get done so I have to Oversee all of it. Yeah, so the last thing I want to do is go on a date with a new guy and have to step into that role for him as well So yeah, I've had women just say tell me

you know, where to be and what time to be there and ⁓ just handle it. And so that's what I usually try to do. they seem, nobody has ever said to me, know, I really like this restaurant. I wish you would have asked me where I wanted to eat. Nobody ever says that.

Dan (20:17)
that's the thing so you don't need to overthink it. doesn't need, I know like on initial first dates or second dates, we have this tendency to want to really impress and get everything exactly perfect and come up with the, you know, the best restaurant and the best environment and, and, and just overdo it. And it's like, I wish when I was younger, I had known that and not focus so much. And it just makes it so much harder. I mean, the real value is like you just said, planning it ⁓ and, that's basically it.

That is like an 80 % of the value right there. Where you go doesn't really matter. you're talking like Wendy's McDonald's. mean, all right, come on. But other than that, you know?

Charles (20:52)
It

can be certain, it can certainly be some place that costs the same as the Wendy's or McGonagall. For sure. It just has to be unique. has to be interesting. And it has to look like you put a little bit of effort into it. Right. And that, that seems to be enough to impress most of the ladies that I deal with. They're not, they're not looking for, you know, this is one of the things I talk about all the time with guys who complain online, usually guys that are, are poor in both personality and financially. All these women want is a free dinner.

Cause like, you know what? I can't think of a single girl I've gone out with that would say, I would very happily spend an hour and a half sitting across from the table with somebody I don't like in exchange for a free meal. Yeah. The women I date, their time is more valuable than that. And they're, the opportunity costs. mean, they could stay at home, you know, watching their favorite TV show with their cat or their dog and have a good time rather than go out.

instead of cross from some guy they don't like for an hour and a half all because they get, you know, a $60 meal for- MEAN-

Dan (21:53)
When I hear that, the first question I want to ask the guy is, you know, what happened? Did you go out with a girl and she didn't like you and now you're chalking it up to, she just wanted a free meal out of it? Meanwhile, you had done something on the date was completely inappropriate or like you

Charles (22:07)
or you were just, right? Or you were super bored, right? Because you don't want to go out with you again. mean, yeah, don't, I mean, number one, you don't, you don't take, in my opinion, you don't take girls out for expensive meals on the first date because, or expensive from a financial standpoint or a time standpoint. You don't want to get stuck. Nobody should want to get stuck sitting across the table from somebody for an hour and a half that in the first five minutes are like, this is not my kind of person.

Dan (22:33)
Yeah, that and also you were setting the bar really high right at the beginning and you know, and it's just like, this how you normally spend every weekend? Are you normally going to these fancy places? I mean, if you are, all right, good for you, but most of us are not. So it's almost like you're saying, I'm not enough. It's gotta be me. And this extremely extravagant experience, you know, that...

Those two things together is good enough for you. Right. now you've, basically set this dynamic where, and I mean, think most human beings, most normal human beings wouldn't, wouldn't automatically think, Hey, that's going to happen all the time, but you do it enough. You know, you can subconsciously.

Charles (23:19)
Yeah, it can. you.

Exactly. Yeah. I remember my, I had a second date once that was, you know, Hey, come, come over to my place. I'm going to cook some kind of a, of a stew or a soup in my crock pot. And then we can watch a movie. And it's like, if you like that, I got good news for you. That's what my life looks like a lot of the time. So if you enjoy that, you're in luck. That's, know, making myself dinner and sitting down and watching a movie is.

is what life is going to look like for me at least one or two nights a week. So if you get to get a glimpse of that and you like it, then hey, more power to you. You're going to be in for a lot of fun because that's what real life looks like, right? Okay. So last thing, create safety, emotional leadership, maintaining stability. So your partner feels free to express herself and he gets a little bit into the idea of creating safety in some more sort of physical ways too, meaning, know, have, you want to live in a...

dumbass aisle of some sort that provides some level of security and knowing that some stranger isn't going to walk in at any moment and steal something or cause any violence. said some things like, you know, installing a security camera, installing a security system, making sure that, you know, your partner, especially, I mean, if, this is a long-term partner, a girlfriend you live with, a wife, make sure she has a car that is safe. Make sure that car.

you know, maybe has a whistle or some mace in it or something so that she can provide for her safety when you're not around. And just thinking of stuff like that and coming up with a plan so that she can feel like if something unexpected happens, I'm going to be taken care of. That's, that's very important. Yeah.

Dan (25:01)
Absolutely. know, part of that is also not being afraid of her emotions either. right, and providing some sort of framework and structure to allow her to experience those emotions, which are probably going to be a little bit more intense than you, and allowing her to work through them and feel them and then provide that safe space for her to come back to when she's ready.

Charles (25:25)
Yeah. And that's, that's been a big challenge of mine over the last couple of years is getting, more used to particularly emotions in women. Cause when I grew up, had, I had caregivers that were either they were not in control of their emotions. So they were very kind of chaotic in that way. Or sometimes they were in control of them and they were using them against me as, as a little boy to get what they wanted from me. They would, they would use the express the over the top expression of emotion to.

get what they needed from me at the cost of my own emotional well-being. And so as a result of that, I grew up being a man who is very uncomfortable around women who are getting either upset or angry or sad. And my impulse is like, have to stop this. We have to put an end to this because it's making me uncomfortable.

And so takes a lot of work to transition out of that mindset into more like people are entitled to their emotions. They're, they're allowed to have them. They're allowed to express them and it doesn't ruin my day. If somebody in proximity to me is having a difficult time and it's not my job to Yeah, no, it's not my fault. Right. Did something bad or I'm not,

Dan (26:38)
And it's

Exactly.

But it's, sometimes, you know, it can be those, you know, words can be thrown around and even if it's not your fault, you know, people can try to make it your fault and you just got to be able to, you got to learn how to handle that.

Charles (26:57)
Yeah, even if somebody says, I'm crying right now and it's your fault that I'm crying. Number one, that could be true. She could be crying because it's my fault. She could be crying and think it's my fault, but it's not actually my fault. Or she could be crying and it's not my fault. And we both know it's not my fault. But all three of those could be a reason to be uncomfortable and feel like, I don't like this. Or they could be a reason to say, okay, this is what humans go through and...

And that's OK. Both of us are going to survive this. Neither of us is going to drop dead. Neither of us is probably going to storm out the door and never come back again. It's just something that can be experienced and something that can be handled and something that can be learned from. And again, if you're if you're in a mode of responsiveness instead of reactivity, you can understand that even while you're in the middle of going through it.

Dan (27:47)
So in one of those situations, what do you recommend that person to do? The person who's not crying, the man who's not crying and experiencing, you know, this outpouring of emotions. Any thoughts, any recommendations on what to think about, what to do?

Charles (28:04)
Yeah, I would say think about being curious and trying to understand more than you currently do. Just this is an opportunity for me to learn something about myself, about my partner, about the way men and women interact with each other. Whenever there are strong emotions, it means there is something to be learned.

Dan (28:21)
You ask what the fuck is happening right now? How do I deal with this? No. Yeah, I-

Charles (28:26)
training we are, how dare you? The important question. Yeah.

Dan (28:31)
You're giving me the ick. ⁓ no, I, it's, it's, it's hard. It's hard to stay curious in the midst of all that emotion.

Charles (28:40)
It is a hard job, but you know, it's harder to have a life where you don't.

Dan (28:44)
But the thing is, I think it's good to be that way because then you stop thinking about these assumptions, right? It's my fault or, I did something or she did something or whatever it is. It's, hey, let's, let's try to get to what reality is. so by being curious, you can ask those questions and just try to get better sense of what's going on right now.

Charles (29:05)
And even being able to say, look, I, you're having an experience right now and I want to, I want to understand it. It's making me uncomfortable. And I want to, I want to get through that discomfort to find out what's going on with you. And, know, again, that's the, that's the kind of vulnerability that leads to having a better life where you're willing to say, Hey, here's what I'm experiencing right now. And even if you don't like it, even if you make fun of it, I'll still be okay anyway. And, and that's the, ⁓

You know, like Brittany Brown says, everybody wants to be brave, but nobody wants to be vulnerable. It's like, don't, you don't get one without the other. being able to say, Hey, this is, this is making me uncomfortable. I'm having an unpleasant experience right now. And it's not your job to fix that. It's not my job to suppress it. It's just, it's both of our jobs to acknowledge the reality of what we're experiencing right now. You're upset at me and I'm feeling, you know, upset about you being upset, but.

Here we go. We're going to, we're going get our hands dirty anyway. And it's not easy to do, but when you practice it, when you practice it, when you're not in the middle of it, you can get through it and it can become, it'll never become first nature, but it can become second nature. why we call it that. That's a point. All right. So, he goes through with a few, archetypes here of basically three guys who try to take on a masculine core, but do it the wrong way.

the alpha dog. He confuses power with control and this is expressed through dominance, some inappropriate level of competitiveness, demanding respect from others but not really offering any empathy or... yeah, the worst thing is telling people that they need to respect you. I mean, is there anything weaker than like actually verbalizing, you need to be more respectful of me? I never remember when my parents would do it, you know, telling me I needed to apologize or I needed to respect them. It's like...

Okay, so you want me to pretend to do some things for you right now? That's... Yeah, I remember Adam Kroll telling a story of his mother being like, you need to tell me you're sorry. He's like, I'm not sorry. Like, well, you need to say it anyway. It like, and he was like, what does that do for you? I make the noises with my mouth that tell you that I'm sorry, even though you already know that I'm not actually sorry. Like, what kind of person does that feel better for? So I hope I never become that kind of person.

Dan (31:05)
Right.

Yeah.

So I mean, that's the thing is if you give into that, right? If you, that is kind of what it is. It's more of a, okay.

Charles (31:30)
Yeah, I've had

I need to dominate you. I- Right. Or- This controller is what you say.

Dan (31:38)
I feel like you need to show me that you care about me enough to even fake it, even to just to go through the motions to say versus versus just like walking away and going, I'm not even doing that. I'm not even going to move my mouth and make the noises like

Charles (31:53)
Yeah, but to the point where you already told someone you're not sorry and they say, it anyway. It's like, that's, that's a dynamic. would never want to be on either side.

Dan (32:02)
Yeah, yeah, that, ⁓

Charles (32:04)
I that leaves- You know the side where I say, listen, I'm not apologizing for something that I'm not sorry for. I see you're having a difficult experience right now and that's too bad. I wish you weren't, but I'm not going to say I'm sorry. But-

Dan (32:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

it could be it could be a dominance thing too at that point. Just like I want to make sure that you know, I'm the parent, you're the kid type of thing.

Charles (32:24)
Yeah. So the alpha dog will over-focus on the positive of providing structure, but he does it without any love or safety. It's like, we're going to do things this way, my way or the highway. I'm providing the structure, but you know, we're, yeah, we're going to the seafood restaurant for our date. Well, I'm allergic to seafood. Too bad. Allergies aren't real. Yeah. No, nobody, nobody wants that person, you know, I mean, yeah.

When you set a date with somebody, it's like, hey, it looks like there's a great Indian restaurant in your neighborhood. I'd to try it. Do you like Indian food? Either they're going to be like, yeah, that sounds great. Or they're going to be like, actually, I don't like Indian food. It's like, okay, well then you pivot to something else, but you still get credit for coming up with the idea and suggesting the place. And then if that place doesn't work for her for any reason, sure, you still get to pick another place and you still get the credit for that. to just be like, well, too bad we're going to the Indian restaurant, you know.

Think you're gonna have a second date? Think she's gonna even show up for that one? Probably not. The asshole does what he wants without caring how it affects others, appears to be fearless and free, but he operates from his ego rather than a grounded purpose. He will also over-invest in the providing structure, meaning making all the decisions, but not the creating safety. And it's interesting, know, the asshole is who a lot of guys complain about losing women to.

Like she would rather go date that asshole than me. And usually that the guy who says stuff like that is a nice guy. He's a guy who is codependent and trying to win people over by, being nice instead of by being who he really is and just also adding kindness on top of that. So the, the asshole is basically the guy who does what he wants, but doesn't do it with any kindness. He does it with just, I only care about me. So I'm going to

I'm going to meet my needs and you're going to come along and meet my needs too or else I don't need ya.

Dan (34:18)
That goes to prove the point of how important it is to create that structure and to take the lead and to offer those suggestions. Because even though this guy has all these other negative qualities, because there's such a shortage of men who are going to actually plan things and take the lead, he does it in the wrong way. But because there's such a shortage of it, women put up with that, asshole for years and years and years sometimes.

Charles (34:44)
Yes, I've said before on the show that.

Dan (34:48)
So nice guys, just step it up and don't be afraid to plan some shit out.

Charles (34:51)
Women, women want a strong good man. And if they can't find one, they will settle for a strong bad man or a weak good man. But what they want is a strong good man. And there's like almost none of those out there. Yeah. So they, find themselves, okay, well, I want a strong man, but there aren't any strong men, strong, I want a strong good man, but there aren't any strong good men. So now I have to decide, do I settle for a strong bad guy or do I settle for a weak good guy? And I mean,

The goal should be for all guys, I want to be strong and I want to be good. And then you'll have options for the best women that are out there. But if you can't turn yourself into, and look, it's, it's really hard to raise a strong, good man. And it's really hard to become a strong, good man.

Dan (35:38)
The simple question is, which do you think is more sexually attractive to the woman? A strong bad man or a weak good man?

Charles (35:45)
certainly a strong bad man because when it comes down to, you know, when the raiders from the other village come around, the weak good man will do nothing where the strong bad man might at least be able to keep you a lot. On a daily basis, he's going to be pretty tough to live with because he's a strong bad man. But when the shit hits the fan, he's going to be able to get done what has to get done with, you know, a million years of evolution, telling, tell her which one to pick.

Dan (36:05)
Protect yourself.

And he's more likely to protect his child, right? So...

Charles (36:16)
His

woman, his child, absolutely. He'll do what he has to do. But again, living with him on a daily basis probably isn't going to be very much fun. No. So, but again, if you believe your only options are a weak good man or a strong bad man, then most women will find themselves, especially the younger they are and the closer they are to child-buried age, the more they're going to follow that program to be attracted to the strong bad man.

If you're man who wants to have a lot of options with a lot of really highly valuable women, however you define that, turn yourself into a strong, good man and they will be attracted to you like flies to honey. So the last one is the righteous supplicant or the nice guy who apologizes for being masculine, seeks approval through deference, over focuses on creating safety and sort of ignores the providing structure part.

Dan (36:56)
Flies to honey.

Charles (37:11)
Like you provide the structure and I'll make sure you feel safe. And, you know, again, at some point in a woman's life, she might decide that that's a compromise she's willing to make, but, ⁓ most, most women are not going to feel like that's a good idea and accepting the safety at the cost of the structure is, is worth it. Whereas the integrated man, which is, ⁓ you know, as, as we've been kind of saying in terms of the strong, good man, he lives out power and love and freedom.

all at the same time, he holds boundaries, he leads decisively, and he's able to stay open-hearted while he does it. So, that is the kind of person that, the kind of man that most women want, and you are either lucky enough to come out of your childhood with that frame and that mindset, or you have to turn yourself into that through a lot of hard work, which is where I find myself, and I think you would agree you find yourself as well. If I just rely on what I got from...

Dan (38:06)
Sometimes.

Charles (38:09)
you know, watching mommy and daddy, then I am not going to be a good consultant, a good employee, a good husband, a good partner, a good father. I just, I didn't come out with all those skills. So I've got to get them from other sources because I didn't get them the easy way. Chapter six was a short one where he just goes in briefly to understanding the feminine. And he makes the point that feminine does not equal female. It describes an energy and a set of qualities such as expressiveness, fluidity, emotionality, spontaneity.

The feminine nature is movement while the masculine nature is stillness and I would say calm. And, ⁓ he does make an interesting point. I don't remember if it was in this chapter or the last one where he said, ⁓ listen, basically the more you are attracted to the harder work this is going to be on you. And that is, I identify with that because I am attracted to very feminine women. And as a result, I have to work a lot harder.

against some of my nature to provide what it is that they need. Because if you have a woman that leans more toward the masculine energy, she's going to be able to self-regulate and, and kind of get by on her own with less support from you. I just, not attracted to that kind of a woman. So it, uh, it puts me in a position where I've got to step up and become more in tune with the masculine potential that I have.

or spend my time around women that I'm just not as attracted to. And that's not a compromise I'm willing to make. I've got to do what I have to do because what I'm attracted to isn't going to change. But how I carry myself in the world, that can change for the better.

Dan (39:58)
So, I'm gonna agree with you on that part, but I'm also gonna mention that a woman who does have a lot of natural masculine traits, a guy who's with somebody like that, also has to work hard because she might be so self-sufficient in some ways, it might be difficult for her to like let go of some of that, those tendencies and trust that you're going to take care of things as well as she can take care of things. Or as she had in the past.

So you really need to be kind of self-aware of, know, how, how well you can do certain things and what you're good at and what you should improve on and how you can actually serve and, and, and serve that woman and, and be a good partner to where you're offering benefit and you're not like getting in the way of her doing the things that she's been amazing at doing.

Charles (40:48)
And yeah, and I want to be clear, know, women who lean on the feminine side or the masculine side, both of these can be extremely competent, extremely smart, good at their job. They can be leaders. It's just about, you know, what kind of, and the next chapter we get into is going to be on polarity. It's like, what kind of polarity are they looking for in their personal relationships? And, you know, a more masculine leaning woman is going to be more about the...

Equal partnership. You know, I want, I want us to both come into this as equals and we're going to divide up the, you know, emotional work we do. We're going to divide up the housework we do. We're going to divide up the planning that we do for our household, our vacations, all that stuff is going to be kind of even Steven and you know, where a more feminine leading woman is going to be more of the, would have a more enjoyable time if you could just tell me you're going to take care of it and then take care of it and then just take the lead and deal with it for me.

And so that I don't have to, I don't have to put on my planning and execution hat that maybe I wear all day, every day at work. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but you know, some women get pleasure out of that and they, they want that sort of equal relationship when it comes to all those things. They're just not the ones that I'm typically. Yeah. I could do fair, but they're out there. And if, if you're guy who's is looking for that, you just do have to be on the lookout for, okay, well, I need to understand when my woman with this masculine energy.

is looking to take a break from that. And that's when I step up. Because they're, know, yeah, you got it. Everybody's going to want to take a break at some point from, whatever there's.

Dan (42:28)
We also mentioned that, I don't know if there's in this chapter, but know, masculine feminine doesn't mean male female. It's more about, um, you know, the masculine typically provides a little bit of a structure and feminine is a little bit more free flowing. Um, and just that women tend to have a natural state of being more feminine and men have a natural state of tend to be more masculine. And like what you said is where a man is

working in his masculine all day long, he doesn't really need to take a break from that because that's a little bit more of a natural state. Whereas when a woman does that, it's not her natural state and she needs that break. She wants to, she wants to get back into her feminine and not just stay in her masculine. So if, if you have difficult time providing that environment where she feels like she can let go of that masculinity and can actually get into her femininity, that's, that's where you're going to do well.

Charles (43:20)
this comfort area if she doesn't feel like she has.

Dan (43:23)
Exactly, and that takes some work on the guy's side to really figure out how does that look and what does it mean for her? Each person's gonna be different.

Charles (43:32)
You know, that discomfort can kind of come out in ways that are hard for you to understand and hard for you to deal with. If you are the kind of guy that feels like, I see somebody, you know, in an uncomfortable position, I have to fix that. have to jump in and take care of it. It's like, there, there is no way to jump in. If you've got a woman that feels insecure with your ability to take the lead.

You're not going to argue her into feeling secure with your ability to take the lead. All you're going to be able to do is change yourself in a way that you set up a long-term pattern of showing her, can't handle this. Only then is she going to be able to say, okay, well I'll let him handle it. Is he's showing me that he can? Yeah. So that, that's a lot to keep in mind. But, ⁓ again, it, it comes down to if you find yourself in a relationship where the balance between masculinity and femininity.

leadership and following is leading to discomfort, excuse me, or dissatisfaction with one or both of you, you've got to decide, okay, well, it's my job to take this on and fix it as best I can and not wait for her to fix it for you. And I would say not even go so far as to sit down with her and say, okay, we need to work on this and fix it together. Like, no, you just put your head down and work on fixing you and see how much of the problem that addresses.

Because one of the things he talks about is don't spend a lot of time talking about, I'm going to become the man, I'm going to become the leader, I'm going to become the fill in the blank. Because when you do that, you just set yourself up for failure. Just put your head down, work on these things. Now, that's not to say you can't talk to anybody, but don't unload it all on your partner. Talk to your best friend, talk to your priest, talk to your therapist, talk to your coach, talk to your men's group, talk to somebody. It's not all about bottling this up and I'm going to do self-improvement.

by white-knuckling it. It's like, can work through this with somebody that you trust, but don't give all your intentions and all your goals to your partner so that she is constantly watching the calendar and watching you to see if you're actually making progress. Just get better without telling her that you're working on getting better. She'll see it. Exactly. Let your actions speak instead of your words. Our next episode, we're going to hit chapter seven, eight, nine, I believe, and starting with polarity, we'll pick up there. Good. All right. Thanks, Dale. Talk to you later. Bye-bye.

That wraps up this episode of the Mindfully Masculine podcast. We hope this conversation offered some clarity and helped you see the work of purpose, emotional steadiness, and grounded leadership in a new way, not as performance, but as a real path toward deeper connection and a more fulfilling life. If you know someone who might connect with or benefit from this episode, share it with them. It's one of the best ways to support the show and keep these conversations growing. Thank you for listening to the entire episode. We appreciate it and for being part of this community. We'll see you next time.