Her Role as Oracle: She Sees What You Don't

In this crucial episode, Charles and Dan dive into the foundational responsibilities of the masculine and the subtle forces that either create deep, lasting intimacy or lead to eventual conflict.

The conversation begins by examining the crucial demand for masculine safety, exploring what happens when a man fails to "hold space and provide safety," forcing his partner to step out of her feminine and into an energy that strains the relationship. They discuss the essential concept of polarity, making the case that the spark in romance thrives on the natural differences between partners, not their similarities. This is most clear in moments of stress, where men tend to retreat to logic and women urgently seek connection.

The hosts pivot to challenging conventional views of relationship conflict by introducing the Feminine as Oracle—the idea that a woman’s behavior, even if it feels like "acting out," is actually an indirect, instructive message reflecting her partner's internal "drift or laziness."

Finally, Charles and Dan identify the single greatest threat to a man's center: fear. They argue that nearly all non-masculine behavior is rooted in a fundamental sense of threat, and the ultimate solution is the commitment to inner work—cultivating a deep, centered belief in one’s own resilience so that you can respond to difficulty instead of reacting to it.

Chapters

• 1:51 Introduction: The Festival and the Foundation of Safety
• 5:10 The Masculine Duty: Holding Space and Over-Functioning
• 12:54 Polarity: Differences and Communication Styles
• 16:20 The Feminine as Oracle: When Her Conflict is Your Instruction
• 28:48 Root Cause: Why All Non-Masculine Behavior is Based in Threat
• 43:35 The Antidote: Emotions, Resilience, and Inner Work

Transcript

Charles (00:00)
It's such a, it can be such a fertile training ground because you know, the, the feminine woman that you care a lot about will have the ability without trying to trigger all of your worst insecurities. And so if you can stay in that relationship with the right mindset, like you can, you can accomplish a lot of very healthy work for yourself by just having her there and reacting.

And even in ways that she doesn't know, your insecurities and reacting to them can give you the opportunity to say, okay, I'm going to leave all this anxiety behind and just turn myself into a deeply grounded person. Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. This is Charles. In today's episode, Dan and I dive into the essential dynamics of a healthy relationship by first examining the foundational role of masculinity and its commitment to hold space and provide safety.

and how a failure to do so forces a woman to over-function in ways that often don't feel natural or comfortable. We then pivot to the concept of polarity, emphasizing that the essential spark of romantic vitality thrives on the natural differences between partners, not their similarities. Finally, we explore two critical ideas, the feminine role of oracle, where a woman's behavior, often misidentified as acting out,

is actually an indirect message reflecting her partner's internal drift or laziness. And the core truth that nearly all non-masculine behavior in a man is primarily rooted in a fundamental sense of anxiety or threat, with the ultimate solution being the inner work required to cultivate a centered belief in one's own resilience. If you want to go deeper into these ideas or catch any past episodes, audio or video, visit mindflatemasculine.com. Thanks and enjoy.

Dan (01:51)
Good morning. How are you?

Charles (01:53)
Good morning, Dan, I'm well, thank you, how are you? You, ⁓ You went to a music festival recently. You enjoy those?

Dan (01:59)
I did.

Usually, yeah.

Charles (02:04)
So tell me about the electronic daisy. Electronic or electric? Well, it is electronic, okay. Yeah. Alright. So not a trombone to be found in the whole place.

Dan (02:18)
There was so much stuff there there could have been I'm sure there was some sort of marching actually There was a marching band walking through with the first day we got there We actually did pass by a marching band and I'm pretty sure I heard some trombone. ⁓ I am sure there was actually some trouble in there everybody. Maybe you'll go next year a trombones It's a completely different experience during the day than it is at night. Yeah, so I like to I love it during the day. It's it's

Charles (02:31)
So.

Boo.

Dan (02:46)
It's basically like a big amusement park for adults where it's not overly crowded. The weather is beautiful. The music isn't as intense and there's, yeah, you can, there's so much color and I guess happy people walking around. It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good time. And I mean, it helps. get to go with a bunch of friends, you know, everybody's into it and everybody brings a little, little surprise for the group. You know, whether it's something that, you know, lights up or, or, you know,

light up scrunchies or wristbands or snacks or food or whatever. It's, it's, yeah, it's a good time. It's a good time. And I really connected well with a lot of people. We were having a weekend and stuff. It was nice.

Charles (03:25)
I am happy that I could contribute to the joy of everyone who attended by not being there.

Dan (03:30)
You're probably one of the few people who weren't there. It was crazy crowd. Not during the day. No, no people are still rolling in, know, till, you know, late at night.

Charles (03:33)
Absolutely.

Yeah, they're still going through the rates of some like, up. Roland's an interesting nut.

Dan (03:45)
Yeah. yeah. Lots of people roll, lots of people drunk, lots of people high. But the cool thing is everybody's there for security and safety. So there's no, nobody is getting like pinned to the ground because somebody saw somebody do something that was, you know, illegal or whatever, right? It's more like, hey, what do you need? How can you help kind of thing? so there was an incident on Sunday where a guy was just a little out of control when it came to...

his alcohol consumption and his interaction with other people that required a little bit of security from the guys around. So one of the things that is a good rule of thumb is you probably want to go if you're a lady, you want to go with a guy or a few ladies want to go with a couple of guys that can really... It's not like a real scary place or anything, but...

There's people who just drink too much or do too many drugs or whatever and get out of control. Worst case scenario, so that a woman can kind of be staying her feminine and relax and enjoy the experience. It's good to have guys who are there who can kind of hold space and some safety and security, just kind of keep an eye out for some, you know, some crazy people or people who are a little too friendly.

Charles (05:04)
Right? Yeah, I mean, unfortunate that that has to be the case, but we take the world as it is, not just as we wish it would be.

Dan (05:10)
And it's interesting because I didn't even think about that until, you know, we were going through this book and, at the festival, you know, we were with, ⁓ a couple of, couple of my girlfriend's friends who were also girls. didn't have guys with them. And what happened was my girlfriend didn't have a good time because she had to be staying in her masculine, looking out for the younger people, the younger women who really, it was like their first time. They weren't sure about where things are and it gets, it does get a little crazy at night. And so.

Charles (05:32)
state.

Dan (05:40)
I just kind of putting it together. has an amazing time with me, but I'm the one kind of looking out for her. And really at those festivals, one guy usually is not enough for like multiple women to kind of take care of and always be looking and stuff. And so it was really interesting. You know, we all kind of put together like, listen, it's great that you went this year. If you want to go next year, find somebody who can kind of take care of you, you use the buddy system. so...

this one person's buddy left. And because that person's buddy left that fell that that responsibility then fell on my girlfriend. And so she didn't she couldn't relax. She could have a good time. And so it was an interesting reflection of a lot of the stuff that we're talking about here in the in the book, actually.

Charles (06:24)
So, yeah, I imagine, you know, also for being the, uh, managing that ratio as a guy is probably important too, where, know, if it's just you and your girlfriend or you and your girlfriend and her one friend, maybe it's easy for you to enjoy yourself and kind of keep your situational awareness. But once the group gets too big and you feel like, okay, I'm responsible for keeping an eye on everybody being safe. I'm sure at some point and whatever that number is, it's probably going to be different based on.

the guy's temperament, his experiences in life and all that stuff, know, for, some, might be, look, I'm happy to keep an eye out to make sure my girlfriend's okay, but you had another person in the mix and now I feel like I'm here doing a job instead of enjoying myself.

Dan (07:09)
Especially when the dynamic changes, you're going into it knowing, okay, everybody's got a buddy, right? So it's taken care of and then if it changes, all of a sudden the buddy leaves or, you know, something now it's like thrown on other people. That's something that kind of, you know, yeah, it's kind of have to deal with is it can be a little unfortunate. The nice thing is for the most part, 95 % of the people there are thoughtful and caring and.

you know, looking out for each other and they're really engaging with, you know, they'll talk, you know, they, hey, are you okay? And people are pretty good about taking care of each other, but you know, you can't rely on that, right? That's, that's, that's like a bonus.

Charles (07:49)
Now it only takes one bad actor to potentially do something to you that ruins your life, so... Yeah, just having to think about stuff like that, it's... If anything is a privilege to be born a man, it's just... Well, I remember...

Dan (08:04)
Yes

and no, because like you said is though is that yeah, I'm when I went I I had a good time but I I couldn't have a complete like so if it was just me and a bunch of guys Like it would have been a lot easier for all of us to be able to relax. Yeah

Charles (08:18)
Is that still a choice?

Absolutely. You think girls would be like, yeah, fuck it. You guys are on your own. I'm going to have a good time. Hope nobody messes with you. I mean, you have that option of making that decision. Yeah. Oh, look, there are there are guys that make that decision every day and they can and nobody, you know, society's not telling them you're you're going to jail because you didn't take on the role of protector for these women you were with. No.

Dan (08:29)
Bring the eye now.

No, I just can't, I can't, you and I can't operate that way.

Charles (08:46)
necessarily, I wouldn't either. would feel a sense of responsibility of, I've got to, I got to do something to keep the people that I care about safe. but again, you do have the option to say, I don't really, I don't really care about that much. So I don't, it's not my job to keep them safe. Yeah. Where a girl doesn't get to go to something like that just say, I'll just zone out, not pay attention to what's going on around me and making somebody else's problems. Like, no, it's, it's always going to.

24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's going to be their problem to worry about their safety and security. Yeah. No. where, yeah, we, remember when I was in the last time I went to New York city, I was staying in Brooklyn and my plan was to, walk across the Brooklyn bridge, go back into Manhattan, do some shopping and stuff. And, ⁓ I looked on my Google maps to see from where I'm staying right now, how do I get to the Brooklyn bridge? And, ⁓ I saw it on the map and I saw there were a lot of big like.

project buildings, essentially. And so, um, I saw a couple of cops standing there and I was like, Hey, I'm planning on walking over the Brooklyn bridge and says, go through the street. Any issue with that? They were like, yeah, I wouldn't do that if I were you. And I was like, okay, good to know. And I did it anyway. I was fine. Cause I was like, yeah, I'm going to put the Charles is walking around New York face on and I'm just look straight ahead. I'm not looking at the, you know, not looking at any of the landmarks. I'm not, just like,

kind of pissed off walking fast. Nope. mean, there were, there were plenty of people just kind of hanging out outside talking, laughing. Yeah. People not like me and, ⁓ nobody gave me a second look or talk to me or anything. just put my head down and walk straight through it. And again, I'm, mean, I'm a, I'm a mid everything white guy in mid forties and,

world is safe place for me. Now there are obviously some bad decisions I could make where it's like, okay, you put yourself in a place where you really shouldn't be. And now you're going to have to pay the price for it. But the number of those places for me is a lot lower than the number of places for other people who were born with, you know, different characteristics than I was born with. yeah, going to, mean, I don't want to go to a music festival and I don't have to worry about half the stuff that

other people may have to worry about and it's still like, uh, I mean, you and I were talking about going to see Jack Johnson. I was like, I like Jack Johnson. That's a concert I might want to go to. And then I look it up and it's outdoors in Florida in August. And I'm like, you know what? Nevermind Dan, forget I brought it up. That's, that's too much. I don't, I don't like music.

Dan (11:23)
You have vacation from outdoors in August.

Charles (11:25)
I don't like music enough to see anybody outdoors in Florida in August. And sometimes I wish I wasn't that way. I wish like, oh, I wish I could just snap my fingers and I could be into the same thing that so many other people are into and get the same joy out of it that so many... But it's like, okay, I... there's... There may be... I may find opportunities where I can stretch a little, but being the person... Like, I've got friends that would... They would go to a concert every weekend if they could afford to, because they love it that much. And...

I'm just never gonna be that.

Dan (11:57)
But there's things that you're into that other people aren't, right?

Charles (12:02)
I'm

into the other people are saying boy. I wish I was into that like Charles is into it. You know ⁓

Dan (12:07)
about

like, you know, movie culture and like.

Charles (12:10)
You know, cuz anybody... No, but he said I wish I was into pop culture like Charles is, but I just can't make myself do it. You could just... Just sit down, sit your ass on the couch and watch more TV. Yeah, but...

Dan (12:20)
I think for myself, I sometimes will say things like, not like, oh, I wish I was like Charles and more in pop culture, but it's more like, I really feel like I'm living in a cave because I know nothing about pop culture kind of thing. So I have a flavor of it. Yeah, yeah. And so I wish I enjoyed it more to where I would seek it out. Because I feel like left out of conversation sometimes because I don't know, you people would be like six, seven. I'd be like, what?

Charles (12:32)
Let's try.

Dan (12:49)
And I have, and I spend way too much time trying to research it and figure out what, you know, what it means, right?

Charles (12:54)
I ask. Alright, chapter seven in the masculine relationship focuses on polarity, which we've already alluded to a bit already. There was some really interesting stuff in this chapter that helped me to think of the sort of traditional male-female dynamics in ways that I had not thought of it before. Particularly the role of the feminine as oracle I found extremely interesting. And this idea that... ⁓

Well, one of the sort of base concepts to polarity is you are with a romantic partner, not because of the ways that you are similar, but because of the ways that you are different. And as part of that, if you try to apply standards to your, to the woman that is your partner of, you know, here are the things that I strive to be as an ideal man.

Now my woman who's my partner, boy, she better act this way or else it's like, it's, it's ridiculous to try to apply those standards to traditionally feminine partner and then be disappointed when she doesn't meet those standards. And I've, I've made a few notes of what some of those standards are of rationality or control or even sort of like linear thinking and things like that, where, know, you

logic in a way like, like sort of the idealized version of logic that you like to think you have or the logic that you think you should approach life with. Because we've talked about this on the podcast a lot where, you know, this idea of men are rational and women are irrational, men are logical, women are illogical. It's like, no, that's not real life. Real life is, and the way at least I've explained it before is...

When it comes to times of stress or pressure, what do men versus women look to as their safety blanket? Men tend to look to logic as their safety blanket and women tend to look to connection as their safety blankets. You're feeling, when you're feeling uncertain, when you're feeling stressed, what is it that makes you more comfortable in a touchy situation? And for me, yes, that is logic. If I can, if I can feel like I've got a good understanding of the nuts and bolts of what's happening right now.

then I'll feel safer and more comfortable. And I think most of the women I've been with at least would say, if I'm in a stressful situation, if I can figure out a way to feel more connected to the people I'm going through it with, then I'll feel safe.

Dan (15:31)
And what's interesting is when the problem comes in, when we both try to, from a feminine or masculine, try to use our own communication, like native communication language of what makes us feel comfortable, whether it's emotions or logic and try to like communicate with that. That's where I feel sometimes we have some problems where we're applying logic to emotional, to emotional situation they may be feeling or vice versa. that's where.

some translation needs to happen. It doesn't, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't easily translate from one side to the other. And I think that that's where I run into problems in the past is trying to apply logic to emotional situations. And by doing that, I feel like I'm also shutting down the other person instead of allowing those emotions to flow.

Charles (16:20)
Yeah, I certainly been in those situations before and dealt with the, you know, the aftermath of, trying to fit somebody else's communication into, you know, like sometimes you'll see somebody struggling with a foreign language or in a foreign place and the idea of, if I speak faster, louder than they'll understand me. That's not, you know, that doesn't help that doesn't, that doesn't make you easier to understand. So trying to double.

down on the logic that you're trying to bring to the conversation when all she's looking for is connection is not going to make your side or your point easier to understand. It's going to make it harder. So anyway, I like this idea and I did quite a bit of thinking about it. The idea of the feminine as Oracle, which is to say, you know, listen, as we've said on this show before, and in many of the books that we have, particularly the ones written from a man's perspective has said about, you know, it's

The healthy grounded man's job or mission in life is not to please the people around him. It's not to keep everybody happy. It's to... We're called to higher purposes than just getting along with everybody. And those purposes can be lots of different things. It could be, you know, I want to excel in my field because then I'll make the world a better place. I want to be a source of...

you know, political change that makes the world a more fair, just place for everyone, whatever the big thing is that you're passionate about and that you're trying to accomplish. To have an oracle at your side who sort of naturally, just by the way that she exists, is able to say, hey, here's how you're actually showing up. Not how you think you're showing up, not how you want to show up, but based on how I'm reacting to you,

this is going to teach you how you're really showing up in the world. And being able to use that as a source of information instead of she's judging me, she's nagging me, she's making me feel less than. It's like, I've never thought of that before, but every time that you're experiencing conflict with the woman in your life, it's because she's telling you something about the way you're showing up.

Dan (18:33)
So explain a little bit more about, if you can kind of round out the definition of oracle that you're talking about here, so people can kind of like zero in. You you started to a little bit there in terms of her being able to give us some insight into things. That's one of the ways I think about the term oracle. But what else for

Charles (18:51)
You

know, the language that I highlighted from this chapter about it was that the way she reflects your mindset, your behavior, she will expose any drift, any ego, any laziness that you might not see on your own. And so, for example, if she is uncomfortable about stuff, know, promises you're making to get stuff done around the house that you're just not getting done on a recurring basis.

And that starts to stress her out. That starts to cause her to nag you or be upset with you or do what you feel is nitpicking. What that's really saying is, listen, you're not showing up as the dependable person that you either sold yourself to be or that deep down you want to be. You're not getting that done right now. And so she's reacting to that. So yeah, the idea of the feminine as an instructive partner that can say, listen, you are...

You're not bringing to the table what you want to be bringing to the table right now. And that's making me act out in ways that are pointing that out to you, but it's all, it's all indirect and it's our job to understand that and be able to see it for what it is.

Dan (20:04)
I think it's important to also come in with the intention and the understanding that the woman that you're with loves you and wants the best for you and isn't being oversensitive and isn't nitpicking and isn't coming from that.

Charles (20:19)
Assuming you have done the work on yourself to have a good picker.

Dan (20:22)
Correct. So that being said is even if you have this impression, you know, that she's being oversensitive and she is nitpicking, most likely she's still serving an oracle purpose because there is some truth to that. It may not be the level of, know, that she's expressing to you or that you're interpreting it, right? It might not be that bad or, or, know, as severe, but don't dismiss...

the fact that you're receiving some good information about yourself from your woman that you should value and look at, hey, it's an opportunity to look at it a little bit deeper. And it may not be at the level that, you know, she's expressing, but it's still, there's still some truth to that. Yeah. So don't dismiss it. Oh, she's not an Oracle. She's just being oversensitive. Most likely she's with you because she, you know, there is some level of care there and she's not going to be

Charles (21:08)
Right, because two-

Dan (21:21)
you know, pulling stuff out of nowhere to torture you. Our empathetic kind of people.

Charles (21:27)
Nobody chooses to live with someone and spend all their time with someone just because they want to put them through the wringer. There's, that just doesn't happen. So there's, you guys are together for a reason and she is, if what she's doing, you perceive as acting out in some way, there's a reason for that too. There's a need that is not being met and people struggle to vocalize their needs and people struggle to ask for their needs to be met. And so just assume that.

You know, this person you care about has a legitimate reason for being the way that they are right now and that there's something, there's a lesson there for you to learn. that, and that really is what so much of this book is about, which is to say, you know, whatever difficult times you're facing or you're going through, there's, there's a lesson for you to learn about making yourself just a more effective navigator through life. And, but that starts with saying, okay, what

What is going on right now that I might not understand? What is happening that I may not have all the information on or all the details on? What do I need to ask myself? What do I need to look at myself and figure out? Okay. You know, how did I bring this situation about and what can I do about it to make it better? Because again, if your first thing is to go to, she needs to do this, she needs to do that so that my life is easier. Well, good luck. mean that's...

I don't know anybody whose life has gotten better that way because they're like, you know, I complained for years and years and finally this person did exactly what I was hoping they would. Yeah. It just doesn't happen that way. Yeah.

Dan (23:01)
You know, this chapter is talking about polarity and that is really a blessing when she is communicating with you because she's telling you you're not being as polar as you should be, right? You're not being as masculine as you should be. That's where that's coming from. And it is not exactly going to be a clear message. you're not being masculine enough because you didn't, you know, fix the plumbing entirely kind of thing, right? Like, or whatever it was. It's...

it's going to come out in other ways, but it's her way of letting you know that you're not being in your masculine. So that way, if, she can be more in her feminine. So the more you are in your masculine, the more that allows her to not have to take care of business and allows her to relax in polarities.

Charles (23:45)
⁓

So much of it is, you know, either expressly or covertly. At the beginning of this relationship, we set up the roles that we planned to play and the roles that we expected from each other. And so much of the time in the relationship stress that I've experienced, has been, okay, Charles isn't showing up in the role that he sold and that he was comfortable with at the beginning of the relationship. And so now she's having to act out in a role that she's not comfortable with.

Either. ⁓ we're going to have some, conflict. I'm not delivering on the promises I made again, either expressly or covertly. And now she feels like, okay, well, I'm not getting this dependability and safety and whatever from him. So now I've got to do more. And that is a source of discomfort for me. So now I've got to.

I've got to act that out in some sort of way to communicate, Hey, this doesn't feel good right now. And it needs to get back to the way that it was, or we need to find a new path forward or something. Because yeah, when, you break that contract of I'll be the man, you'll be the woman, I'll be the masculine, you'll be the feminine, I'll be the provider, you'll be the manager of the household, whatever, whatever each individual relationship has set up as this is what our green will work for the two of us. And it can be anything and it can be, you know, the man could.

take on the role of the feminine, the woman could take on the role of the masculine. But as long as you guys are both on the same page with that, you've got to then maintain that up until the point where you actively vocalize, hey, this dynamic needs to change. if the dynamic changes just because of laziness or comfort or trauma activation or whatever, if it kind of just under the surface starts to change, then one partner is going to be like, whoa, something's not the way

This is what I signed up for now. I have strong feelings about it.

Dan (25:42)
Yeah. And this is all too common in new relationships, right? People are putting their best foot forward, right? So a guy might be planning a date, might be taking her out to really expensive dinners. showing that provider role, showing that leader role. And then when they're, you know, finally get a commitment, he backs off on that. But now all of a sudden you basically sold her a bill of goods that doesn't exist. Right. And so that's where in the past I've, I've screwed up relationships that way. I put way too much, you know,

effort and emphasis up at the beginning and I didn't maintain even a modicum of that. Not that they were asking for the same level of, you know, amazing dates and everything else like that. But it was just like, completely got lazy and backed off on it. And I basically then facilitated discussions and arguments and I didn't know what was actually going on under the surface. you know, it ruined relationships.

Charles (26:37)
Yeah, I've never gotten a first date by playing the... I don't know, do you want to do game? The what do you want to do game? No, that's not how get first dates.

Dan (26:47)
No, but a lot of times in the relationship, we all do. Yeah. What do you want for dinner? Yeah, I don't

Charles (26:53)
I don't know what I want, but I know I don't want that. not offering alternatives, like, I think both halves of the relationship can fall into those patterns. And it's just so boring and non-committal and just there's, you know, that's a lack of masculine or feminine energy. It's just like we've turned into roommates or buddies now that can't make up our mind about what to eat for dinner. And it's like, nobody signed up for that at beginning.

Dan (27:18)
And that's the thing is what you're also expressing is that you are not giving any energy into the person that you care about the most. And maybe for whatever reason, that energy has been sapped from other things going on in your world. Like, you know, a crazy busy week at work, know, taking care of the kids, know, parents, whatever that is. And unfortunately, though, you then left with nothing left for the most important person or almost the most important person in your life. And what is that your...

communicating to them that they're not as important.

Charles (27:50)
Right. And that's where Esther Perel's spoken so much with her work on this idea of, know, we want safety and security, but we also want variety and excitement. And how do you keep both of those going in a relationship? And very few people from what I can see seem to be able to do it.

Dan (28:08)
Cause that takes work, that takes effort. It can be done, but

Charles (28:09)
Yeah. It's like...

Yes. But it's like another job that you have. Like this is, this is a- Yeah. At least a part-time if not a full-time job.

Dan (28:18)
I helps me knowing that it's gonna take effort, right? Going in with the intention to expect that it's gonna take some effort, it's gonna take work, and you will get tired from it. Yeah, it's gonna happen, but it's worth it. the end, it's

Charles (28:28)
Yeah, that's it.

We're staying healthy, staying in shape. It's like, Yeah, at the beginning, like, you know, this is going to this isn't going to be easy, but it's going to be worth it. All right. The next chapter, the next chapter is kind of short where he gets into threat. And I like I like this statement. Nearly all non-masculine behaviors are rooted in one thing threat.

Dan (28:32)
She's your heart, right?

Charles (28:48)
The body senses danger and reacts instead of responding. And, ⁓ I would say that's certainly true in my life. Like all the times where I dropped the ball as the masculine role in a relationship is because I was scared of something and I didn't know I was scared of something, but I was reacting to something I was afraid of that I didn't even know I was reacting to. And that could be, you know, I'm afraid of feeling less than I'm afraid of being abandoned. I'm afraid of, you know, being seen as, ⁓

you know, a fraud, whatever it is, like, ⁓ I'm afraid of something. And so now I'm reacting to just a little thing that happens with all this extra baggage of my fear.

Dan (29:28)
hadn't

been expressed before so kind of built up and grew compounded interest

Charles (29:31)
Exactly.

Yeah. And so, every, every criticism is a, no, she's going to leave me or every criticism that Charles isn't good enough. And it's like, the only way to deal with that is to, you know, do that, ⁓ that intense inner work where you're like, okay, no matter what happens, even in the case of a worst case scenario, I'll be okay. I'll survive it and I'll, I'll live to fight another day. And, and you've got to actually believe that.

so that you can respond to threats instead of reacting to them. Like, instead of letting that, you know, whether you want to call it the inner child or the lizard brain or whatever, the part of you that is like, I gotta grab the wheel and take over because we might die. And in most cases, dying is not an actual legitimate threat, but that's what your... The part of your brain that's job is to keep you alive long enough to reproduce. It has to blow out, you know, has to...

It has encourage that hypervigilance. So everything is life threatening. We have to address everything. Everything could potentially be the thing that does this in. And the mammals that thought that way were the ones that stayed alive.

Dan (30:43)
Yeah, he breaks down the entire emotional chain reaction ⁓ in the chapter here. So you perceive a threat whether it's real or imagined, your nervous system fires, you leave your masculine center, she feels disconnected instantly, which causes her intensity to increase. You get even more threatened and then the cycle continues and spirals into chaos and just gets worse and worse and worse.

Charles (31:10)
I've lived through that so many times and what can you do about that? Well, you gotta figure out that you're in the middle of it. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta have some sort of an exit ramp where you can say, all right, I feel like I'm getting in there and it's not her job to get me off of this. It's my job to figure out what can I do to derail this before it turns into a train crash. ⁓

Dan (31:18)
Awareness.

⁓

Yeah, I mean, for me, sometimes it helps to think, yeah, you can't not feel the feeling. It's very difficult to not get that, you know, the physical feeling. What helps me sometimes is then thinking, okay, what other information am I missing? What other information could be here that I is not part of what made me feel this way. And so at that point then, at least it gives me a chance to pause and think, okay, maybe there's something else I can look for here.

that might be helpful, that might help me understand a little bit more. And by doing that, it's going to make me feel better. So I'm linking me feeling better to getting more information. And so now I'm starting to get into a habit where I don't feel good. First thing that I do is or one of them, not the first thing always, but one of the first things I do is look for more information. Okay. What else is going on? What, where else, you know, can I get some, some insight here? And usually that

does at least slow down my physical reaction and it brings me a little bit of peace. And then from there, I can then keep looking for more information and more interpretations. And if an ideal situation, I've got the time then to process it. It's not always the case, but.

Charles (32:50)
And yeah, and it is, it's such a, it can be such a fertile training ground because, you know, the, the feminine woman that you care a lot about will have the ability without trying to trigger all of your worst insecurities. And so if you can stay in that relationship with the right mindset, like you can, you can accomplish a lot of very healthy work for yourself by just having her there.

And reacting and even in ways that she doesn't know, senior insecurities and reacting to them can give you the opportunity to say, okay, I'm going to leave all this anxiety behind and just turn myself into a deeply grounded person. is testing your nervous system for capacity, not for compliance. Yes. She is again, unconsciously, inadvertently. She is testing to see.

Dan (33:40)
That's a way of thinking about it.

Charles (33:47)
What are you capable of delivering on? Not will he go along with what I need him to do? Not, not can I control him into being what I need? But does he have the ability to deliver on what I need him to deliver on when it's important for him to deliver it? Yeah. And yeah, she's going to again, because choosing the wrong man is a throughout all of human history and even throughout part of mammalian history, choosing the wrong mate is the most expensive.

incorrect decision the female of whatever species is able to make.

Dan (34:20)
A lot of times that situation, I think to the male brain is very counterintuitive, right? It's this person is, you know, the person that is most important to me. She wants something. For me, my default is automatically, I got to give her what she wants. Not I need to resist her and, and, or be able to handle my emotions in this situation that she's, you know, she's upset about.

so that I can also display to her that I can handle my emotions in a non, in a situation that is outside of the relationship or, you know, doesn't have anything to do with her. My brain goes, well, they're not as important, right? So I don't need to worry about pleasing them, right? So I don't need to be compliant. I don't need to practice being, you know, I need to practice being compliant and to her because she's the most important, right? And not...

And you're not not show. I'm sorry. What did you say? It's not compliance, but capacity. I don't need to show capacity here because it's going to be easy for me to show the capacity to somebody I don't care about.

Charles (35:22)
Right. Right.

Dan (35:24)
But that's not what she, but that's the thing in your own mind that it's clear, but that's not what she believes. That's not the page that she's on. She needs to be shown. She's not seeing that. She needs to see you have that capacity, you know.

Charles (35:37)
And that is, mean, you you hit on a fairly specific example of one of the things that effective people, and in this context, effective men can do, is to say to somebody, I either can't or won't give you the thing that you're asking for right now, and here are my legitimate reasons for not giving you the thing you're asking for right now, and have the person that's being denied leave the conversation feeling safer than they were going into it. And that is a skill that you see...

Rarely. mean, I've seen it sometimes in my both personal and professional life where somebody has been able to say, no, we're not going to do the thing that you're asking to have done right now. And here's why we're not going to. And then seeing somebody leave the conversation feeling better about being denied what they thought they needed or what they thought they wanted. And it's not a manipulation. If you try to do it through manipulation, it will become clear of, okay, you're just coming up with excuses why you're not going to do what I want you to do. I was like...

No, we're not. But being able to honestly say and directly say, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to give into this request right now. And here's why. And you know, no, no amount of, of trying to convince me or cajole me or guilt me is going to change it because I believe in my reasons. you know, then look, if, you, if you make the wrong call consistently over and over again, you're like, I'm not going to meet your need and you have, and you do it for the wrong reason, then eventually, yeah, she'll find somebody who will meet that need.

But if you have to do it occasionally and you have a legitimate reason that you can explain and stick to, then that will make you a better partner, not a worse partner.

Dan (37:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're also you're also kind of vetting a little bit the relationship too because if that's not acceptable to her then you might need to re-evaluate are you with the right person.

Charles (37:21)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If, yeah, if somebody asks you to do something that goes counter to your values. And when you explain, Hey, I can't, can't accommodate that request right now, because if I did, it would lead to these other things that I'm not willing to do. Then yeah, they, your partner should be willing and able to hear that on a limited basis when it's actually true and actually important. You know, just, you know, just say no for the sake of saying no, cause you want to test them and see how they react to it. It's like, no, this is.

Yeah. If you're not willing to plant your flag on any hill, then you're going to be out of hills real quick. So in chapter nine, which is all about emotions, basically makes the case that you need to get to know your emotions and be able to identify what you're experiencing in the moment or very close to the moment. Otherwise you're just going to be stuck in this, this

program of reactivity to everything and you know, again, whether you call it your your inner child or your inner grown up or the lizard brain or the monkey brain or however you want to say it, there's a part of you that wants to just react to things in the moment as they happen. And there's a part of you that is able to say, no, I can I can delay my response to something until I understand more about it. And

You know, we were able to come together and build civilizations on the idea of I don't have to react to everything in the moment. I can pause, I can take a minute. can understand more about what's happening and I can make the right decision. And, you know, when it comes to relationships, that right decision is, okay, what, what is my trauma history? What is my childhood? What is my long list of unmet needs telling me I have to do instantly to make myself feel better or what?

are my deeply held core values telling me is the best move going forward to get myself where I wanna be. And it really comes down to how do I train myself to get into that slower thinking instead of the fast thinking.

Dan (39:30)
Yeah, I think it starts with lowering your overall stress level so that you have the capacity to you've got that bandwidth there when you are triggered for whatever that is. You've got a little bit of a cup to use some room in your cup to handle that. Right. Whereas so a lot of that, I think, really comes down to managing your your daily stress levels and making sure that you're doing things that are fun and enjoyable for you. You're getting time to relax and you're not just

Yeah, pushing and pushing and pushing, which so many of us do.

Charles (40:04)
Yeah, I was thinking of ⁓ an acquaintance of mine that I knew several years ago. were never close friends, but we were friendly. And, ⁓ you know, we would occasionally be together in a party or in a, you know, sort of ⁓ the meeting after the meeting where you go out for a couple of drinks after, you know, hanging out for work purposes or whatever. And this guy would tend to consume a little bit too much alcohol.

And he would get very huggy and very weepy. And I've known a few guys like that. It's like, you know, I, I have no emotions until I've had five or six beers in me. And then I want to hug everybody and I want to cry a lot. You know, I, I had the thought years ago where I was like, Hey, I never told him this because we weren't close enough, but it's like, you know, buddy, if you, uh, if you ever get tired.

Dan (40:35)
interesting, okay.

Charles (41:02)
of crying every time you've had a few too many drinks. You could just cry once or twice in a therapist's office about what's actually bothering you. And then you won't have to cry anymore when you're drunk. He's a tease. He'll overwhelm my emotion. Who can? Okay. And I am only, you know, able to let my guard down after I've had a significant quantity of alcohol. Yeah. Because, you know, this guy, he was not comfortable letting it out at any other circumstance until he...

enough to the point where he couldn't keep it in anymore. Yeah. then, and then he would cry about it. And whatever it was, was relationships or his stress or whatever it was, it was, I can't acknowledge that any of these things are a problem until I've had enough to drink where I can't stop myself from acknowledging that these things are a problem. ⁓

Dan (41:48)
Do

you think it talks to what he mentions here, a lot of the pressure that we feel as men to, or whether some sort of perception that it is shameful or to express our emotions. So maybe he was, do you think he was embarrassed or too scared or felt like he'd be judged by, you know, expressing his emotions? wasn't judged.

Charles (42:13)
It was that certain but then also okay. Well if I get you know, just on the edge of being blacked out then You know the accountability for expressing my emotions goes away because I might not remember it. Yeah, look like religious thing Hey drunk or yeah, the inhibitions will be yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, if you could if you can just live with and express and understand your emotions a little bit on a daily basis then

Dan (42:25)
with orange

Charles (42:40)
You know, you would not have to deal with those, with all the kinds of challenges and getting drunk and crying isn't the only way that that is expressed. But there's lots of ways that the idea is I've got to keep this tamp down because I can't let anybody see any of these things because if they do, then roll in the blank. I'm not a man. Right. And so if you can, you can be a man on a daily basis who understands his emotions, expresses emotions and lives with his emotions.

then you're not going to have these buildups to either resentment or anger or, you know, punching holes in the drywall or crying every time you have a few too many drinks or whatever. But just bottling it up and never having to deal with it ever is not an option. or just the, the, the biology and the psychology just doesn't exist for us to just decide not to have unpleasant feelings or emotions that have to be dealt with.

Dan (43:35)
Yeah, think Youngblood does a really good job in Chapter Nine here about flipping script on the interpretation of what is masculine in terms of relations, in terms of, excuse me, in terms of emotions, right? He does a lot of, he frames things in a lot of ways that really helps us understand it's actually masculine to be able to show your emotions in the right way, right? And to the right people, right? ⁓ And why that is, and that shows...

true strength and act that's what actually is masculine and hiding your emotions and basically bottling them up ⁓ is the exact opposite of that. There was something he said in here that was really good that I wrote down. said that any emotion we choose not to feel will have to be felt by those around us. So there's no way you're keeping it back from anybody anyway. And especially not from women who that's their...

They live in those emotions like they are experts at feeling it, but other guys will feel it as well. Like we're never, we're not that good at hiding it from anybody.

Charles (44:41)
And you know, is, in any sense of the word masculine, what is masculine about saying, is too hard for me to handle, so I'm going to make it somebody else's cra- I mean, point. Yeah, think about- Right. Yeah, think about any circumstance where the masculine thing to do is to say, this is too hard for me to deal with, so without asking for help, I'll just push this mess onto somebody else's ⁓ table and let them clean it up, because I can't handle cleaning it up myself. I mean, there's no masculinity there. That's weakness.

Dan (44:49)
Exactly.

I can handle it.

in that area where he's talking about, you know, it's going to be felt by those around us. He also mentions that it's going to be painful to those around you too. To see those, these are happy emotions that you're, you're tamping down, right? And so you're, if you think about it this way, we're, you know, as humans, we're, you know, constantly worried about what other people think of us. Now think about this, right? You are literally burdening other people around you, most likely people that you care about the most with these emotions, because you're saying I'm

I'm not, choosing not to deal with them. I'm going to tamp them down and I'm going to, ⁓ I'm not gonna acknowledge them. I'm not gonna be aware of them and I'm not gonna practice handling them. And now you're putting that burden on the people around you and that's, that's not really fair.

Charles (45:56)
Yeah, I think that the, mean, yes, it doesn't take a lot for me to say or understand that, you know, the, the strongest choice we can make in our relationships is to be honest and to be vulnerable with people. Because what that communicates is I'm going to speak the truth and no matter how the world reacts to it, I can handle it. I'm strong enough to deal with it. And so when that comes to emotions, it's like, and he made a great example in the book of how we say.

You know, I'm feeling angry right now because fill in the blank is important to me and fill in the blank isn't going the way that I feel like it ought to. So here's, here's, here's how it scares me. Here's what I think we need to do about it. And your partner could say, or whoever could say, well, I don't think, I don't think that is important. I don't think we do need to do anything about it. I think things are fine the way they are. You can, the strong person can, can hear that the strong man can hear that and say, okay, well.

We're not aligned on this and now we have to have a conversation about if we never get aligned on this, what does that mean for the future? And no matter what it means for the future, I'll be okay. I'll survive. You'll be okay. You'll survive, but it's going to be difficult for us to work this out. And I was, I remember when I was trying to come up with, was this idea that, know, sort of going back to the previous chapter, chapter eight about threat and how, you know, unmasculine behavior is almost always.

at least for people who strive to be masculine in any kind of a healthy or responsible way, the feeling of threat, the feeling of scarcity, the feeling of I might not be okay, I might not be up for dealing with this, I might not be able to recover from this bad thing that could happen to me. Throughout human history, that masculine anxiety, that masculine threat has been possibly the biggest lever that the people

in charge or in power have used to get what they want. Like I am going to make you scared of this other country or this other kind of people or this. And so as a result, now, now I need you to pick up a bayonet and go fight this war for me. That's honestly about my power and my wealth, but I'm going to frame it as. Yeah, they're they're out to get you. And if you don't go kill them first, then they're going to kill you and they're going to take your wife and your kids and everything that matters to you. They're going to steal that from you.

Dan (48:12)
threat to you.

Charles (48:22)
So you have to go fight them first. And it's just, yeah, we, we have been exploited by that, by that ability for people to make us feel threatened to get what they want from us. So what's the, what's the inoculation against that? What's the vaccine against that? Well, it's, it's work on yourself to the point where you subject yourself to difficult things and you triumph over those difficult things.

so that when somebody comes along and says, oof, you're in real danger, you're in real trouble, you better listen to me or else something bad could happen, your attitude should be like, I think I'm doing okay, I can kind of deal with whatever comes along, so I'm not gonna just listen to you and go do what you tell me to do because I'm scared.

Dan (49:04)
Yeah, and that's the opportunity then if you're not swept up in the emotions at the time and you start reacting to them, you can then ask questions. You can get more information. Maybe there really is a threat. Right. But just because somebody says so, yeah, not like...

Charles (49:19)
Exactly. Like what's, what's in it for them if I believe them? If I believe what they're telling me and I do what they say I have to do, how do they benefit from it? ⁓ you know, again, if, if you're constantly in a state of fear, if you're afraid of, you know, I, I mean, part of that comes from a level of uncertainty and scarcity. Like I said before of, I'm not sure I deserve the life that I have. I'm not sure I've actually earned it. I'm not sure I'm good enough to enjoy.

Dan (49:23)
That's a great question.

Charles (49:49)
this house, this wife, this kids that I've got. because I don't believe that I, you know, maybe, maybe I didn't earn all this stuff. Maybe I'm

Dan (49:57)
Maybe

he's feeling guilty. Right. Even though you did earn.

Charles (50:01)
Right. Yeah. Then it's like, you know, some, some, some circumstance could happen where it's all taken away from me and I, I don't have the power or the control to keep it. Then it's like, all right, now it's, now it's time for now. Yeah. I'll get ready to be manipulated. And I, you know, I used to put it in terms of the person who is easily offended is easily controlled because if, if, if all it takes is for you to hear somebody make some noises with their mouth, that really just sets you off and gets you out of responsive mode and into reactive mode, then

It's very easy for them to get what they want or need out of you. And you have very little control to stop it where if you're able to just say, ah, that person, they can say whatever they want to say. That doesn't really affect me. Then it's a lot harder for them to put you in the place they need to put you to get what they want to take from you. And, uh, I see it a lot right now with some of struggles that men go through in our social and political and media climate, or it's like, okay, this CEO, this politician, if this religious leader,

can just get you scared enough that he'll just do what he tells you to do because you want to protect yourself and your resources and the things you care about and you'll just go into that reactive mode as soon as that person says the right thing to you.

Dan (51:13)
of

the things I liked that he brought up was the different thoughts about anger and how a lot of times in society, men are criticized for being too angry, but then they're also criticized for letting people walk all over them and not showing any type of backbone or any type of anger at all. And he explained it in a really nice way ⁓ that resonated with me, which is that it's okay to be angry.

But then when you are communicating your feelings, don't make that the primary emotion that you're expressing, right? You're okay to be, it's okay to be angry, but then look deeper. That's a sign of something else that you're feeling on the inside. Most likely you're scared of something. So lead with the thing that is actually internally scaring you. You can say and label, yes, I'm angry because I feel scared that you don't value this relationship. So I think the example was, ⁓

A guy was with a woman who's always late. She was always late.

Charles (52:15)
Yeah, and I'm afraid that you don't value my time which means you don't value the relationship because I Do what I have to do with my calendar my schedule to be there for you when we plan something and the fact that you don't means or Frightens me into thinking that you just don't care as much as I do

Dan (52:30)
Yeah, and he really dissected breaking down a good way of communicating that so that you're not judging or necessarily blaming the other person. Really focus on the facts of what happened. it's when you're late, know, when you're late, that's a non, you can't, you can't, you can't argue that, right? Yeah, that you were late.

Charles (52:47)
We both agree I was late.

Right? Agreed to be here at 10. When you were 10.20. And then- That's an objective fact that nobody can argue with.

Dan (52:55)
Exactly. And, and the other objective thing that somebody can argue with is as long as you're honest is your feelings and how you felt because of that situation. And so if you stick to the fa- just the facts, ma'am, you say, okay, you were late and I felt disappointed that you didn't value, you know, I, I felt like you, you know, you didn't value my time. You didn't value the relationship. You don't value me and not, you know,

you did this or you did that or, or, know, you're a bad person or, and you're not using any of those types of words. And if you can stick to just reporting on, on the facts, there's no arguing there. And then the important thing too is, leaving it there so that you don't need them to change. It's okay to want them to change, but you don't need them to change. Go in with the expectation that they are absolutely, they have to change at this point.

Charles (53:43)
you don't

Right? Yeah, enough. It can be enough to just say, hey, when this happens, this is the way I feel. And then if this is a person who loves and cares about you, then that will matter to them. Correct. But yeah, you can, there's a loving way to walk them through it to say, okay, we both agreed to meet at 10 and you showed up at 1020, right? I'm not making a lie up. You did show up 20 minutes late, right? And a sane person is gonna say, yes, I did. And they may try to offer excuses, they may try to offer, like, I completely understand that, but...

We did agree at 10, you showed up at 10.20. Now here's how I feel about it. Do you believe me? I'm telling you the truth about how I feel or do think I'm making that up? And again, most same people is like, no, I believe, you you say that that made you feel frustrated or neglected or whatever. I believe that you experienced that. It's like, okay, so we agree what happened. We agree how Charles felt about it. I feel better just getting that off my chest. The fact that we just agree on that much, I already feel better.

Dan (54:44)
Because you feel like they then, yeah, by her reiterating it to you also helps you feel like, she does understand, right? For me, that's huge is knowing that the other person understood. For me, that's more than anything else is I just want to feel like I've been heard and that you understand.

Charles (54:58)
That

conversation may lead to a, it may lead to a place of, well, what can I do to make you feel better? It may lead to, I could use your advice. You're always on time for stuff. How do you do it? Because maybe, maybe you got something to teach me about how to show up on time, but don't count on it. And don't be mad if it doesn't go there, but it could, if you handle it the right way from your half of the conversation, it's very much more possible that those follow-ups could happen.

Dan (55:25)
think about how you're gonna feel afterwards if you handle it in that way and you don't let the emotions if you some of your emotions usually you know get the best of you I would look back and be like wow I'm really proud of myself I handled the head and I didn't I was in control the entire day

Charles (55:39)
Even if, you know, even if she changes nothing, you get to walk away and feel like, all right, I'm the kind of guy that when something bothers me, I'm able to express it in the healthy way. And there will be people in the world who respond in kind. There will be people in the world who don't give a shit. But as long as I keep handling, keeping my side of the street clean when it comes to these kinds of conversations, I'm going to have a better life in the long run.

Dan (56:03)
And I think it's actually, if you're with the right person, it's going to bring it closer together. It's just another way for them to understand you more, right? And get a better appreciation of what's important to you are exposing who you really are to that person. you know, showing that authentic vulnerability by expressing how you're actually feeling and not either tamping it down, pretending it doesn't bother you, right? That emotional stoicism, which never works, you know, and showing strength by saying, hey, I'm putting myself

out here and I'm putting my true feelings out here and that's a display of strength. So this is like win win win win win. ⁓

Charles (56:40)
And it also helps to always, you know, try. And one thing I think, you know, we struggle with as men is like you said, anger, anger is a tough one for, for the way we interact with society because it's usually one of two things. It's either you never get to display anger or the only thing that we will accept, the only emotion we will accept from men. there's a couple you can lust anger and possibly a third of irreverence. could be, you could be angry at least in the company of many other men. If not all you can.

say things that are lustful and you can sometimes, you know, just kind of make a joke about something serious. And usually those three will kind of be met with the approval of your peers. But again, in some other circumstances, it's like, no, no, men can't show anger because angry men have caused lots of trouble for people in the past. And so we're just going to decide we're uncomfortable with that.

Dan (57:33)
think a lot of times when we notice the anger, it's because it's out of control. Right. And so I think our interpretation of what anger is, is already skewed.

Charles (57:42)
And part of, and I think part of that is because in many cases, anger is a secondary emotion. Anger happens as a result of, I'm frustrated. I'm afraid. I'm sad. I'm disappointed. I'm grieving something. And so all of those, those feel in our body more complex than anger does. Anger is easy. Anger is, it bubbles up to the top and it's like, that guy's angry. Where, you know, to then have a conversation with somebody to say,

Listen, I know I'm coming across really angry right now, but I'm not actually angry. I'm just grieving a huge loss and I'm having a hard time with it.

Dan (58:15)
Right, so here's a question then, what do you think is more effective? Handling the anger piece or handling the grieving of the loss, right? A lot of times, we'll just keep that anger out there and we don't wanna show anything else. So yeah, maybe we resolve that anger, it goes away, but that doesn't fix the root of the problem. And that could easily spawn itself again at another time. And then I think we just get into these patterns of, hey, well, that's just a comfortable pattern that we do is we resolve the anger, but we never...

get to the root of the problem. And so it's not really that effective.

Charles (58:49)
I like these three chapters. did definitely did learn some new things that I had never learned or heard before. The main thing being the role of feminine as Oracle. Like, you know, have this woman in your life and she will show you where the holes in your game are. And to keep her safe and around, you got to fix them. And that's challenging. There's a lot. And I think that's why a lot so many men.

younger men especially are just kind of checking out of the relationship scene because yeah, that is a big demand to put on yourself to say I'm gonna put this person in my life I'm gonna show them who I really am and All my flaws are gonna boil to the surface and that's really uncomfortable. So I'll just stay alone masturbating my basement instead and I'm not making that choice Yeah, there's a lot of guys out there that are making that choice because they've just done the math for them They think it's easier that way and it's easier. But you know, it's also easier to just you know get

get into a medically induced coma and be on life support until your body ages out and you just pass away. I mean, that's easy.

Dan (59:47)
that the reward is greater when you don't take the easy

Charles (59:50)
Yeah, because the thing that people are struggling and not getting done is the thing that's going to have the richest reward, whether that's your health or hiking Everest or getting, you know, getting in a healthy relationship, whatever thing you want that you know is going to be hard to do. That's what you're to feel the best about accomplishing. So, all right, next time we will talk on the next two or three chapters. forget. And yeah, I'm enjoying this book. This guy is every time I worry that he's going to go into some kind of a cliche, you know.

nonsense, he doesn't do it. And I really appreciate that. Nice. All right. Talk to you next time, Dan. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Mindfully Masculine Podcast. I hope our conversation today gave you some valuable insights into the roles of the masculine and feminine, the power of polarity, and the root causes of conflict in relationships. If you found something useful here, I encourage you to share this episode with a friend, a partner, or anyone you think could benefit from hearing these ideas. For all past episodes, audio and video, you can visit mindfullymasculine.com.

Until next time, take care.